United Airlines Passenger Dragged from Plane

[hoipolloi]

1 minute ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Yeah, a day late and a dollar short there, buddy. 

This updated apology probably has more to do with the stock market than human beings.

[Grimalkin]

Sometimes they overbook flight after flight so now the next flight is overbooked by even more people. What a mess.

[Georgiana]

Chuck Tingle provides some much needed perspective on the issue:

 

[Smash!]

I don't necessarily agree with the European passenger rights because they seem to go a bit too far. It's about finding a balance between customer rights and events an airline can't really control i.e. weather. But even with that, as an airline you can always show that you care and be prepared for such events.

An example on how to handle delays correctly: last weekend I had a flight with Singapore Airlines (long haul) but at boarding time, the plane wasn't there. They informed us that there will be a delay and that they will get back to us soon. Not even half an hour later we had all our information: what happened, the new gate and the new departing time as they had to organize a new plane. When I arrived at the gate after a stroll through the airport, I got a sheet with the old and new arrival time, the wifi password to inform my people who would pick me up and was told by the staff that they happily offer everyone a package of snacks and water. I was positively surprised in which short amount of time they were able to organize and prepare a new plane (with the advantage that this happened at their homebase) and how quickly we got all the needed information.

[Jane M.]

20 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

What in the holy hell. Just barbaric and disgusting. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/10/business/united-flight-passenger-dragged.html?_r=0

This can't be real life.

Shame on them. 

[KnittingOwl]

I hate how his past has been exposed and aired as though it is somehow relevant to the situation. It doesn't change that he was assaulted. 

[ViolaSebastian]

11 minutes ago, KnittingOwl said:

I hate how his past has been exposed and aired as though it is somehow relevant to the situation. It doesn't change that he was assaulted. 

I agree 100%. The only past that should be dug into right now should be the suspended police officer.

[2manyKidzzz]

I mean, did they "warn" this man that they were going to drag him down the aisle. 

As in , "sir, you must come with us now peacefully or we will drag you out?" Or did they just attack him. We did not see what came before the assault. I find the whole thing incredibly strange and you would think United would know not to do something like this. With the world ready to video everything, it is just unbelievable that this happened. I'm sure the man did not think he would be treated like this. Who would. 

[GreyhoundFan]

6 hours ago, Georgiana said:

I agree.  Europe has much more stringent requirements regarding compensation of passengers for flights that do not go as planned.  I believe the US should hold airlines more accountable for their failures to deliver on their end of the ticket contract.  

Unfortunately, with the current administration and the Repubs in charge of congress, it's not likely to improve. They take far too much money from business special interest groups. Passenger needs are not a consideration.

 

Here are a couple more good tweets from the fabulous George Takei:

[Smash!]

This is even more desturbing:

[louisa05]

According to this article, the contract of carriage only addresses being removed from the flight before boarding. He may have a case against them because he (and the other three passengers) were already seated on the plane. 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/uniteds-real-mistake-173844672.html

[PennySycamore]

1 hour ago, KnittingOwl said:

I hate how his past has been exposed and aired as though it is somehow relevant to the situation. It doesn't change that he was assaulted. 

It struck me that the relevant part of Dr Dao's past is that he is a 69 year pad man who is originally from Vietnam.  I would imagine that he's seen police brutality during his growing up years, whether he was in the North or the South.   I imagine being assaulted by the cops brought back some unpleasant memories of his youth.  

[Grimalkin]

3 hours ago, Smash! said:

This is even more desturbing:

While $1600 may be a lot of the person we're to use that to go to Europe or some place expensive he may be traveling with someone who would buy a ticket. They could end up making money on that.

[47of74]

United is about to get familiar with a woodshed

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20170411/NEWS04/170419961/united-passenger-lawyers-up-with-tom-demetrio?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social

Quote

United has a new reason to sweat after a 24-hour thrashing on social media. The airline passenger who was dragged off a plane yesterday has hired veteran plaintiff's attorney Thomas A. Demetrio.

Demetrio is half of the two-lawyer team who will be representing Dr. David Dao, whom law enforcement physically removed yesterday from an overbooked flight headed from Chicago to Louisville, Ky. Dao had refused to give up his seat when asked and was injured during the ensuing scuffle. CEO Oscar Munoz was forced to apologize, saying he would "fix what's broken so that this never happens again."

Dao is undergoing treatment for his injuries at a Chicago hospital, according to a statement from his lawyers. Golan said in the statement Dao's family "wants the world to know that they are very appreciative of the outpouring of prayers, concern and support they have received."

 

[Kelsey]

How do they pick who is "randomly" selected? Names in hat, computer selection, close your eyes and point? What's the method? Statistically, it seems very unlikely that both Dr. Dao AND his wife would be among the 4 randomly selected names out of 100+ passengers.

I agree that United seems to have handled this WRONG. 

[Georgiana]

11 minutes ago, Kelsey said:

How do they pick who is "randomly" selected? Names in hat, computer selection, close your eyes and point? What's the method? Statistically, it seems very unlikely that both Dr. Dao AND his wife would be among the 4 randomly selected names out of 100+ passengers.

I agree that United seems to have handled this WRONG. 

They look for groups and do their best to keep parties together.  THAT I can agree with, because in most cases people DO want to stay with their party.

Dao and wife probably bought their tickets together/at the same time, so United treated them as a unit and bumped both of them.  There's really nothing fishy about both of them being selected.  That's actually perhaps the only attempt at good service United displayed in this whole story.  

Edit: they also generally try to avoid bumping families with children unless they volunteer, who tend to make up most of your larger travel parties.  United probably looked for two adult couples to bump.  Not that I don't have sympathy for the Daos, but statistically speaking, an adult couple is likely to be the unit most readily able to adjust to a change in travel plans.  

[2manyKidzzz]

To me the problem is not that they were bumped, that seems to happen ( I seldom fly), but that they waited til everyone had boarded, and then had no protocol for handling a passenger who would not comply with what was the law, or the regulations. 

Surely they are not trained to drag and injure a passenger, made worse by the fact that he was a senior. 

So, I guess there will be some new training industry wise. Just guessin'.

Just really weird. 

[PennySycamore]

@Georgiana,  I kinda wish I'd not read your post till Monday.  My husband and I are due to fly to Memphis tomorrow and return on Sunday.  Frankly, I'd rather drive.

[RosyDaisy]

Why exactly would employees flying for free get preferential treatment over paying customers?

[Coconut Flan]

I've only ever seen it happen once that they asked people already on the plane to give up a seat and that was absolutely voluntary.  The guy still at the gate had made a plea to ask if anyone would please let him fly and another guy agreed.  Normally it's all handled at the gate where it should be.

They weren't employees flying free, RosyDaisy, they were a crew heading to the plane they were supposed to fly.  Absolutely dreadful non-planning on United's part.  Crew movements are one of their known events to plan for every bit of the day. 

My guess being I'm in the Dao's age group is an assumption was made that they were retirees and thus able to adjust easier than a businessperson.  Assumptions have a way of biting you. 

[ViolaSebastian]

18 hours ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

I mean, did they "warn" this man that they were going to drag him down the aisle. 

As in , "sir, you must come with us now peacefully or we will drag you out?" Or did they just attack him. We did not see what came before the assault. I find the whole thing incredibly strange and you would think United would know not to do something like this. With the world ready to video everything, it is just unbelievable that this happened. I'm sure the man did not think he would be treated like this. Who would. 

Even if they warned him, there is "dragging someone out" and then there's what happened to this man. The police officer didn't even put the arm rest down before trying to move him. The officer smashed his head into it, knocking him unconscious. Then dragging him out that way as he bled, for all the passengers to see him. As the video of him afterwards demonstrates, the police officer gave him a serious head injury. I've seen enough police officers escort people (mostly drunks...) out and it was wholly different than what happened here. There was a way to handle it, even if that meant removing him by force, that was far, far less violent than the way it occurred. 

[Kelsey]

34 minutes ago, RosyDaisy said:

Why exactly would employees flying for free get preferential treatment over paying customers?

They were employees needed by the airline at another hub. They were not just traveling for enjoyment.

@Georgiana I agree with keeping parties together but it's not "randomly selected" if that's what they are doing. They are (apparently) picking and choosing based on demos ie- the opposite of random. 

Was there any reason that the crew members could not have just worked that flight instead of needing passenger seats? Like sub out two of the already working stewards for 2 of the needed in another hub steward? It seems like there had to be a better option than assaulting someone.

[Georgiana]

19 minutes ago, Kelsey said:

They were employees needed by the airline at another hub. They were not just traveling for enjoyment.

@Georgiana I agree with keeping parties together but it's not "randomly selected" if that's what they are doing. They are (apparently) picking and choosing based on demos ie- the opposite of random. 

Was there any reason that the crew members could not have just worked that flight instead of needing passenger seats? Like sub out two of the already working stewards for 2 of the needed in another hub steward? It seems like there had to be a better option than assaulting someone.

I think that's a bit of semantics.  When we say "randomly selected" we don't usually mean "truly and completely random".  We just mean that there wasn't a set algorithm that determined precisely who we select.  

If you pull a list of all multiple person parties traveling without minors or special needs and then randomly select from within that, I'd say that still falls within the common use of "randomly selected".  Like if I have a stack of files on my desk and randomly select one.  True, I was only pulling from a certain subset of files, but I still randomly grabbed a file.  

It doesn't really make sense for an airline to TRULY randomly select passengers from the entire passenger list.  Otherwise they might select a toddler or someone on oxygen who CANNOT safely be bumped.  Reasonable parameters for a "random" selection do not, I think, disqualify the use of random.  

But yes, there was a better option than what happened.  Because assisting Mr. Dao off the aircraft safely and WITHOUT assaulting him WAS an option, and at the very least, this is what should have happened.  

[2manyKidzzz]

I just saw a bit of video which showed what happened right before the incident.

Dr. Day said he was not leaving and they would have to drag him.

 

To me, the point is....they do have the right to bump people, you are under their "jurisdiction", apparently......but what is the procedure  when the passenger won't comply/resists, etc. 

Has this happened before......I guess not to this extent apparently. 

They need to make all of this totally clear, obviously. And if someone doesn't obey, they are clearly a potential risk.....I think. They can't take off with someone who is not complying with instructions. 

I wonder why his wife got off. All weird. 

I hate to fly,  but love to watch the planes on the approach to Philly international. 

[47of74]

I remember the first time I came back from Rome on AA and they asked for volunteers because of an overbooking situation.  I didn't say a word.  I sure as hell wasn't volunteering and would have insisted on a rental car to drive back home if they thought I was going to stay an extra day in Chicago.  Driving home would take less time for me than waiting until the next day for a flight.  Fortunately someone else stood up right away and volunteered so I was able to go home that evening.