Anna, Josh, and the M-Kids, Part 10: Genes and Bedsheets

[LurkerOverThePond]

On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 5:50 PM, HarleyQuinn said:

I'd be Priscilla because ... 2) TFDW probably doesn't demand as much in the "joyfully available" department

This, plus TFDW seems to have a decent work ethic, at least compared with Smuggar and Shrader.

[danni9242]

He's used to Daddy having the money to mean he and his family don't have to face poverty so I doubt he'd ever choose to leave. Honestly though I think that he's screwed for any relationship with his older siblings, and a lot of the younger ones are getting to the age where they can recognise he's a cockwomble even if they're not allowed to say it. I think he's not going to get infinite chances from his parents either. Michelle talks the talk but I think after Jubilee she changed a bit and she can see Anna's pain and if she felt free to really disagree with JB she'd tell Anna to go if he did this crap again.

[Analytica49]

Something I've been wondering about is how Josh's siblings treat him when they all get together for family meals, birthdays, etc.

Other members of the family seem to have special people they are close to, and some of the girls are close to some of the boys. For example, Jana and John David; Jinger and Joseph; JoyAnna and Josiah (at least they were in the past); and Jackson and JoHannah (before they were separated).

But which siblings, if any, has Josh ever been close to?? Which ones, if any, is he close to now? As I recall, in the early episodes of "Counting On," John David and Joseph expressed some disgust with him. And none of the girls have ever seemed close to him (and now we know why).

I wonder what those family reunions are like--probably all the siblings are happy to see Anna and the M-kids, but I would guess they may be frosty and stand-offish with Josh (while also, supposedly, "keeping sweet," at least in the case of the girls).

What a balancing act.

 

[Carm_88]

The sad thing is that I don't think we will ever know how the siblings feel, unless someone writes a tell all. 

[ihaveanexamintwodays]

13 minutes ago, Analytica49 said:

Something I've been wondering about is how Josh's siblings treat him when they all get together for family meals, birthdays, etc.

Other members of the family seem to have special people they are close to, and some of the girls are close to some of the boys. For example, Jana and John David; Jinger and Joseph; JoyAnna and Josiah (at least they were in the past); and Jackson and JoHannah (before they were separated).

But which siblings, if any, has Josh ever been close to?? Which ones, if any, is he close to now? As I recall, in the early episodes of "Counting On," John David and Joseph expressed some disgust with him. And none of the girls have ever seemed close to him (and now we know why).

I wonder what those family reunions are like--probably all the siblings are happy to see Anna and the M-kids, but I would guess they may be frosty and stand-offish with Josh (while also, supposedly, "keeping sweet," at least in the case of the girls).

What a balancing act.

 

wasn't Joe Josh's buddy when they were teeny tiny? I imagine that the Josh-gate revelations were particularly tough for him and JD, as the older of all the brothers. I can't imagine Josh having been close with any of the brothers younger than Josiah, and of course he would've been separated from the sisters because of gender-roles + molestation. 

[lawlifelgbt]

I think I can understand Josh's cheating, if not what he did to his sisters. I am just now getting into kink, and so I understand that sometimes you want something different than your spouse is willing/able to give you, or that one person might have a higher drive. Josh probably just wanted to explore sexually a little- anything but standard missionary procreative sex is wrong.

In fact, I've technically committed adultery like he did- sex with a person not my spouse. But the difference is, I discussed it and she and I agreed if there are things I want to explore/do that she's not OK with, I can safely and consensually sleep with someone else. And I don't hurt my other partners. I'm not having to lie and hide them. I use protection. And most importantly, I'm not shackled by awful beliefs.

[TheDuggarnaut]

Josh is now a blimp with a beard. Back right side.

Editing to add that I just noticed everyone but Josh is in dressy clothes. Did he skip church?

[BabyBottlePop]

18 minutes ago, TheDuggarnaut said:

Josh is now a blimp with a beard. Back right side.

Editing to add that I just noticed everyone but Josh is in dressy clothes. Did he skip church?

I'm not sure. But he is wearing a semi ok shirt--one of those filmy polos. My husband wears those to golf and to church. Might only be formal enough for a ebil Catholic mass though.

If he's not even allowed to attend church, then no wonder why Josh is supposedly depressed. It might be a combo of 1) not really being allowed to go out and 2) worry that wherever he goes, a photo will go up online. That photo of him at the restaurant was picked apart for weeks! And even though he's in the back of the photo, I think it looks like he's even bigger. 

[TheDuggarnaut]

@BabyBottlePop I've only ever seen their men folk in suits for church, though.

Josh looks bloated and unhealthy.

[BabyBottlePop]

4 minutes ago, TheDuggarnaut said:

Josh looks bloated and unhealthy.

I think he is bigger at this point than he was pre-scandal. I do think his lifestyle would probably be a contributor regardless of his emotional state because it's a sedentary one. And I feel it would be hard to stay healthy if you've been taught since birth that your wants are ordained by God and that you should always get what you want. 

But he does look bloated and unhealthy. I've seen nothing that would make me believe that he has anything going in his life to make him happy. He and Anna have changed nothing in their relationship, I'm sure-- they're just trying harder at what didn't work in the first place.

[TheDuggarnaut]

Yes @BabyBottlePop, I think his physical condition very much mirrors his emotional state. He is not a happy or satisfied man.

[Greendoor]

It seems to me Josh once said something about four or five being nice.

Perhaps he is trying to be less appealing to Anna.  #5 will be here this year.

I feel for all these fundie kids.  If they are older, they have too much child raising as children to enjoy anything for the first time with their own.  If they are younger, the are so much flotsam, and when you are that remote from your parents, just how do you parent?

  

 

 

[BabyBottlePop]

1 hour ago, Greendoor said:

It seems to me Josh once said something about four or five being nice.

Perhaps he is trying to be less appealing to Anna.  #5 will be here this year.

I'm sorry, I've been seeing all this stuff about how Josh didn't want a lot of kids and while I believe that, I don't get why he isn't doing something about it. 

I get that he's supposed to be the golden son and JB still has a lot of control over him. And I wonder if the reason Josh will toe the line and continue to have children is because JB is supporting him. 

It's a shame. I get that it would probably be hard for Josh to strike out on his own. I know he's been brainwashed for years that this is the way he has to follow his life. I just find it disgusting how a grown man will continue to have children he may not want because his parents say so. 

[TheDuggarnaut]

No doubt he feels totally trapped and defeated. It makes me wonder how much longer he can hold it together. Probably not the Ashley Madison route again, but he's a high risk for deep depression, if this isn't really the life he wants.

[calimojo]

The thing is,  Josh was technically the first Duggar kid to reject aspects of the lifestyle.  (Not talking about the sexual molestation, but the extramarital stuff).  And obviously that didn't work out too well for him.  So, this just becomes a lesson for the remaining kids, and all the other kids in their cult circle that when you step outside of your umbrella of protection, bad things happen. 

 

I am sure that JB and M have used Josh as a teaching point to help  further instill dependence and obedience into their remaining kids.  Josh has unfortunately become a morality tale to them of what happens when you try to be more worldly.  And, because JB and their cult are so sex obsessed,  Josh's sins fit really well into this 'teachable moment' for them.   

 

[PainfullyAware]

26 minutes ago, calimojo said:

The thing is,  Josh was technically the first Duggar kid to reject aspects of the lifestyle.  (Not talking about the sexual molestation, but the extramarital stuff).  And obviously that didn't work out too well for him.  So, this just becomes a lesson for the remaining kids, and all the other kids in their cult circle that when you step outside of your umbrella of protection, bad things happen. 

 

I am sure that JB and M have used Josh as a teaching point to help  further instill dependence and obedience into their remaining kids.  Josh has unfortunately become a morality tale to them of what happens when you try to be more worldly.  And, because JB and their cult are so sex obsessed,  Josh's sins fit really well into this 'teachable moment' for them.   

 

I agree completely. Josh has done some pretty reprehensible things, of his own free will. But it's hard not to think a part of the affairs and Ashley Madison had to do with the religious oppression the Duggars grew up with. Imagine feeling that depression or anxiety were challenges sent by Satan to tempt you to break the very confined that are causing you emotional distress. That's messed up and gives them very little by way of emotion coping. It's obvious Josh was unhappy with his life and decided that lying to his wife and cheating was the best way to cope...

[Percy]

Obesity can lead to erectile dysfunction, Anna may be feeding him up for a reason. 

[Carm_88]

6 hours ago, Percy said:

Obesity can lead to erectile dysfunction, Anna may be feeding him up for a reason. 

Hahah that would be a good reason, but Anna wants all the babies remember? 

[JMO]

While he may have had a chance to tell his wife pre AM scandal that he wanted to put a stop to procreation, he's got nothing now.  He cheated on her, he has been pigeon holed into being the bad guy in the family, and if he tried to stop procreating now it would be a huge signal to her and his family that Satan was back into the fortress.  He has to look like he's toeing the line.  Since he was raised to believe this shit there is not doubt a large part of him that wants to toe the line, be the golden child again.  He's SOL.  They need some real counseling, not prayer camps/Jesus Jail.  They probably could have a happy marriage if both were on the same page.  

[SassyPants]

IMO, at this point, Josh and Anna complying with the Duggars' Philosophy on procreating has stepped beyond the line of faith into brainwashing. This is among the last couples who should be shooting at more kids. Neither one even has a job. He is clearly not healthy. How could she possibly reason that more children is a positive thing?

[JMO]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

IMO, at this point, Josh and Anna complying with the Duggars' Philosophy on procreating has stepped beyond the line of faith into brainwashing. This is among the last couples who should be shooting at more kids. Neither one even has a job. He is clearly not healthy. How could she possibly reason that more children is a positive thing?

Because Jesus loves the little children.  Children are a blessing from the Lord. 

[socalrules]

I think they have to continue having kids to keep up the facade of their marriage being saved through fake sex rehab.  If they don't have more kids, their fundy community will likely think she is withholding sex, Josh is back to cheating for sex or the marriage is on its last legs.  It's obvious that Anna wants her marriage to work and will likely do whatever necessary to make it work. I also wouldn't doubt that Anna thinks the more kids they have the less likely Josh will leave. It likely crossed her mind that Josh could end up leaving her for someone he met when cheating but that would be harder if he has eleventy kids. 

[MoonFace]

I'm disappointed that Anna is having a boy in that I think that if she were having a girl they could name her Mercy.   

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

I think Josh's appearance is a scream for help. That man is NOT happy, and he feels trapped, and he sort of is.  He CAN and should for his well being Anna's and the soon to be FIVE children's well beings,  leave. He needs to take Anna, as her headships and say, NO MORE KIDS, we are moving away from my family and yours, and we are going to get real counseling. He can't work right now but TLC would pick this up in a  second, Josh, breaking away from the cult that damaged him to get help for his issues and try and go on and care of his wife and kids, hell yeah people would watch that. He isn't happy with this lifestyle and it will kill him sooner rather than later.  Anna signed up for the long haul, good and bad, she can go with him and learn how to live a "worldly" life or she can divorce him and go back to someone who will take her and her 5 kids in, since she will have left her husband, her family won't be too supportive and neither will the Duggar's.  She's already gotten the short end of the stick here she, sadly, needs to make the best of it or learn to support herself and 5 kids on her own. While it wouldn't be easy, it isn't impossible. 

[Georgiana]

6 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I think Josh's appearance is a scream for help. That man is NOT happy, and he feels trapped, and he sort of is.  He CAN and for his well being Anna's and the soon to be FIVE children's well beings, he needs to take Anna, as her headships and say, NO MORE KIDS.  We are moving away from my family and yours, and we are going to get real counseling, he can't work right now but TLC would pick this up in a  second, Josh, breaking away from the cult that damaged him to get help for his issues and try and go on and care of his wife and kids.  He isn't happy with this lifestyle and it will kill him sooner rather than later.  Anna signed up for the long haul, good and bad, she can go with him and learn how to live a "worldly" life or she can divorce him and go back to someone who will take her and her 5 kids in since she will have left her husband, her family won't be too supportive and neither will the Duggar's  She's already gotten the short end of the stick here she sadly needs to make the best of it or learn to support herself and 5 kids on her own. Which while it wouldn't be easy isn't impossible. 

Even if Josh were able to force Anna to move away, he can't force her to change her beliefs.  He can get her to go to counselling via his headship powers (maybe), but unless she truly buys in, it's a waste of money.  And he can't change who she is.  Honestly, I think it was pretty clear from his profiles that he straight up married the wrong woman (and vice versa).  What Josh needs, I'm not sure Anna can give him.  I think that deep down, he knows this.  

They have to BOTH truly want out.  They have to BOTH truly want to save their marriage AND agree on the way to do that.  If Anna is still sipping the kool aid, Josh may have to choose.  

But eating is a very common way to suppress other desires.  A lot of people gain weight after getting busted in an affair, as they break an addiction, etc.  It's something to do that stimulates your pleasure centers of the brain that is socially acceptable.  Eat, don't cheat!