Jinger/Jeremy: Not as Interesting as Jingerbread

[singsingsing]

One thing I've learned about myself, and unfortunately I was only able to learn it after many years, for obvious reasons, is that my depression and especially anxiety (which is always more severe and long-lasting than my depression) is very, very situational. Unfortunately the situations causing it were long-lasting. So far there have been two major triggers: school, and being unemployed. I don't function well in a school-like environment, and I don't function well when I have nothing to do and no purpose with no end in sight. I was at my best when I was working full time in a steady 9-5 sort of job. Thankfully I learned this in my late 20s and was able to discern that, say, grad school, or self-employment, were not for me. The thing is, if I'd just beaten myself up about my issues and thought I'd just needed to pray and trust God more, I never would have learned these things about myself. I'd still just be hating myself and falling into all the same holes.

[send*the*ferrets]

I think the important thing is just to take people seriously and listen. When I had PPD, it was a super extreme desire to clean my house and I would freak out and cry if it wasn't perfect, and I would get anxiety walking down the stairs or even going through a doorway thinking I was going to drop her or hit her head. People would joke about the cleaning, "oh you can come clean my house" ummm not helpful, asshole. 

[SweetFellowshipper]

30 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

@LawsonBatesEgo I'm so glad that you are still with us! I hope that your path continues to be smooth. 

Of course medication isn't the right choice for everyone, mental health is so varied and it depends completely upon the person. Choice is the key word in that sentence and that is what fundies want to take away from us. The right to choose what we do with our bodies, whether it be mental health or (their favourite) reproductive choices. I don't accept that, I want for everyone to have a safe place that they can talk about their mental health issues, without being told it's because of sin. It's not Jeremy Vuluo's business and he should stay out of it.

I think this has been discussed before but if a Quiverfull woman needed birth control for a reason other than to not conceive, like PMDD, cysts, endometriosis, PCOS, etc, would they be allowed to or is that out of the question? Does anyone have insight into this?

Do people like Jeremy think bc is only ever used by people who want to have rampant sex with no responsibility? 

[singsingsing]

5 minutes ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

I think this has been discussed before but if a Quiverfull woman needed birth control for a reason other than to not conceive, like PMDD, cysts, endometriosis, PCOS, etc, would they be allowed to or is that out of the question? Does anyone have insight into this?

Do people like Jeremy think bc is only ever used by people who want to have rampant sex with no responsibility? 

As far as I know, there are ways to treat all of those things without using hormonal birth control, so I'm sure they would simply demand that women pursue those other forms of treatment, whether or not they would work as well. In their minds hormonal birth control is evil, it causes people to be promiscuous, it stops married couples from fulfilling their God-given duty to have as many babies as the Lord wills, and it murders babies in the womb. PMDD can be cured by trusting God, and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they thought the same about something like PCOS. You know, you just have to surrender those cysts to Jesus.

[Destiny]

2 hours ago, toosweet said:

People want to be free to voice their opinions and lifestyles without hatred but yet I see so much hatred spewed at the far right.  They voice their opinions without using vulgarity.

Oh for fuck's sake. THIS is the vulgarity that comes out of the far right (Warning: triggers ahoy):

https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2016/05/05/get-them-married-selling-virgin-daughters/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/19/todd-akin-abortion-legitimate-rape_n_1807381.html

http://www.marieclaire.co.uk/entertainment/people/donald-trump-quotes-57213

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/rocks-bible-thrown-windows-colorado-mosque-46390003

Then, there's this fucking lie (yes, I am SERIOUS about the triggers - it's an abortion one).

Spoiler

Westboro - I'd link, but I don't want them coming by to "educate" us. 

I could link to some of the neonazi "christians" that come by to threaten and troll us every so often, but I don't want to put that out in the world.

This post took me 5 minutes to write off the top of my head. It could have been so much worse had I spent time on it, so yeah, I'm gonna say fuck that shit, and I'm not sorry. I do hate the far right and its war on things I believe in, and I say that as someone who WAS far right. Not sorry. 

 

[formergothardite]

@toosweet, I realize that it can be hard to the anger of people who you voted to oppress and in general destroy their lives, but do you have any words to defend doing that? Did you realize you were voting to oppress and hurt people? If you didn't, what exactly did you think you were voting for? Do you regret the vote now? 

 

 

[send*the*ferrets]

22 minutes ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

I think this has been discussed before but if a Quiverfull woman needed birth control for a reason other than to not conceive, like PMDD, cysts, endometriosis, PCOS, etc, would they be allowed to or is that out of the question? Does anyone have insight into this?

Do people like Jeremy think bc is only ever used by people who want to have rampant sex with no responsibility? 

I'm not sure. I personally had some issues getting my cycle back after my first child. She nursed a looong time, and I didn't get a period back for over a year afterwards. One of the things they did to help me once I wanted to start trying for my second, was try a month of birth control. So, the birth control was part of our plan to conceive. I wonder what they would do then. I also took another medication that I had to take a pregnancy test before taking, because if I had been pregnant it would have caused birth defects or a termination. I wonder if that would be ok. But, without them it would have taken longer (or maybe never) for my 2nd to arrive. 

[PreciousPantsofDoom]

5 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

 In their minds hormonal birth control is evil

I hadn't really thought before about the other ways that this kind of thinking is harmful (you know, besides not allowing people to have some control over their fertility.) I dont take hormones for birth control reasons and I can say that the last 20 years of my life would have been fucking miserable without my little hormone patches.  My overall health would have suffered and my mental health would have been in the shitter.

I would hope that aNY doctor that a fundie saw would explain why they needed to be on hormone therapy (if that was the case) and that said fundie would take the hormones, even if it happened to come in the form of birth control pills, but I have my doubts.   SOTDRT isn't really known for producing people with any level of scientific understanding. 

[formergothardite]

4 minutes ago, PreciousPantsofDoom said:

I would hope that aNY doctor that a fundie saw would explain why they needed to be on hormone therapy (if that was the case) and that said fundie would take the hormones, even if it happened to come in the form of birth control pills, but I have my doubts

I really don't think they would. I think that any sort of birth control is seen as murder, so there is no reason they would accept taking it. 

[AlwaysExcited]

And that's how you kellyanne a conversation in topic you actually want to talk about, kids. 
 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

3 hours ago, toosweet said:

When I wanted to have children, I put it in God's hands...but He allowed me to use modern science of fertility drugs (some experimental!) to produce those children.  He was still in control of my childbearing.  And then I used birth control to make sure I didn't have anymore because two was enough for us to love and raise responsibly.

The Duggars would not like me to socialize with their children.  I would encourage education, vocation, hobbies, friends who aren't family, dating to figure out what you like and don't like in a person (a Godly person is not enough --- even Godly people can be jerks and hard to live with if personalities clash) , and being independent. If I were not a strong, independent woman with a career, I would not be able to support my children (who are both now in college), own my home, or live a happy, content life.  I thank my Christian, Godly parents for raising me to do just that.  They raised me to 'not need them or a man' to take care of me.  I married my husband to be with him, not led by him.  We were a team.

And finally, I am saddened that people on this forum feel it necessary to be so hateful (using vulgar expletives or acronyms for them) about the fundies.  People want to be free to voice their opinions and lifestyles without hatred but yet I see so much hatred spewed at the far right.  They voice their opinions without using vulgarity. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.  I disagree with most everything the Duggars teach/preach but I don't wish ill will or hatred on them.  And I certainly don't think anyone who voted for Hillary is an idiot.  When given two choices, we choose what we think is best.  After my child voted (her first election) she texted me writing that "our family voted wrong!" (I, too, saw on FB a cousin had voted and added #I'mwithher).  I told her she didn't vote wrong, she voted how she felt.  Well, my child proudly posted on her FB that she, too, had voted for the first time and  added "#trump".  There were no negative comments...just respectful opinions shared through a hashtag.  I did not vote for Obama but I didn't think anyone who voted for him was stupid or worthy of slanderous accusations.  I put my big girl panties on and waited it out. 

1st I'm sorry about your husband, and your anxiety.  I suffer from anxiety & depression and know how horrible it can be. It is good you were able to go off your meds, especially at a very difficult time, it shows that you were ready and your mind was better now.  I understand wanting to processes your grief in reality not the comfort of medication.  I think strong family support helps and if you are a person of faith, like you are having God can bring great comfort.  I have to say when I read someone say "what good are Prayers to someone sick or dying or grieving" I will rely with "what harm are they? if it makes the suffering person feel better knowing others are praying then it is helping when you are helpless, especially on line 1000 miles away when you can physically do nothing" I am a proud christian, I'm also a proud member of The Christian Left a growing number of liberal Christians trying to get God back from the correction of the right win hate machine.  We very much live by the command of Judge not lest ye be judged there is only 1 judge and that is our Lord. 

Now, your 1st paragraph, people like the Duggar's say birth control is against God's will because HE is in control of how many kids you have, but they would use fertility treatments to HAVE kids.  In that instance wouldn't being infertile be God's way of saying you get no kids? I'm only talking about the Duggar's here, not you specifically. This is just one instance of MANY of the hypocritical garbage spewed by people like them.

The conservatives have corrupted Christ and turned their idea of God into a greedy selfish hateful entity who spites ANYONE that isn't American, wealthy, white and republican.  You value the GOP over God, country and humanity. Power & Profit over people & human life, you are NOT pro-life, if you are pro gun, pro war, pro death penalty, anti SNAP, anti healthcare and Anti education.  I don't see how any real Christian can be a conservative. Just because they are against abortion? What about those babies once they are born? They certainly don't care about them. 

Lastly hell yes, I am intolerant of conservatives intolerance, and I will call all of you out on it.  You want to be free to live your life, but you vote for people who want to tell others HOW they live their lives. YOU vote for people who want to take rights away from ME and all women, and rights away from LGBTQ, minorities, non citizen residents.  You want to take away my right to vote, my right to free speech you voted for a traitor and you voted for a Godless megalomaniac who is handing our country over to rich and power entities for his personal gain.   This isn't about Hillary loosing the election anymore, honestly I'm glad she lost because 4 more years of people like you whining about emails, when you don't care that Pence did the same thing she did while gov of Indiana, and Benghazi when you don't care that Trump was directly responsible for the death of 2 Americans, 1 a an 8 year old little girl.  the other a solider. And yes if Hillary is responsible for Benghazi  then Trump is responsible for these, you can't have it both ways, well you can you are a conservative after all, you don't have to follow the rules you set up for everyone else. You get to tell me how to live my life but if I call you on it on I'm a vulgar hypocritical whiner.  You know what I find vulgar, strangers telling other strangers what they can and can do in their own homes between consenting adults.  

I don't give a tiddly wink  if you are fundy christian, a fundy Jew, or fundy muslim as long as you keep your fundiness to yourself and others like you.  This is American your religion is your choice, for now anyway, having no religion is your choice as well, and I'm ok with that, what I'm not ok with is being an arsehole about either of them. I don't like militant atheists anymore than I do militant Christians. 

[Kailash]

I have a problem with telling people that their vote was wrong when freedom of choice is huge here. I am in need of education about this particular topic please.  

[SweetFellowshipper]

1 hour ago, send*the*ferrets said:

I'm not sure. I personally had some issues getting my cycle back after my first child. She nursed a looong time, and I didn't get a period back for over a year afterwards. One of the things they did to help me once I wanted to start trying for my second, was try a month of birth control. So, the birth control was part of our plan to conceive. I wonder what they would do then. I also took another medication that I had to take a pregnancy test before taking, because if I had been pregnant it would have caused birth defects or a termination. I wonder if that would be ok. But, without them it would have taken longer (or maybe never) for my 2nd to arrive. 

Yeah, in my fertility groups many women were prescribed birth control as part of their overall TTC plan...I'm really curious as to whether they would ever consider that. Maybe if they only go to uber Christian doctors, they don't suggest that??

[singsingsing]

24 minutes ago, Kailash said:

I have a problem with telling people that their vote was wrong when freedom of choice is huge here. I am in need of education about this particular topic please.  

I agree that freedom of choice is very important, but I have no problem saying that I think that people who voted for Trump made the wrong choice. I think adultery is immoral and wrong, but I don't think it should be illegal, ykwim?

[JillyO]

23 minutes ago, Kailash said:

I have a problem with telling people that their vote was wrong when freedom of choice is huge here. I am in need of education about this particular topic please.  

Nobody is saying that @toosweet or anyone else shouldn't have the right to vote for whomever they want. There's that freedom of choice for you. That doesn't mean we can't say every single person who voted for Trump was wrong, unless they mean to destroy the whole planet along with millions of people's lives and their health. Which many of them do, I'm sure. Being able to say that is called freedom of expression. Another tenet of democracy.

[VineHeart137]

27 minutes ago, Kailash said:

I have a problem with telling people that their vote was wrong when freedom of choice is huge here. I am in need of education about this particular topic please.  

Freedom of choice doesn't mean all choices are right or even acceptable. You are free to choose whatever you want but that doesn't mean you made a good decision, nor does it mean that you are exempt from the consequences/backlash of that choice.

[louisa05]

Re processed foods and all that: I love to eat fresh fruits and veggies, and I'm actually cutting down a lot on sugar and carbs now just to see if I can and to practice a bit of self-discipline, but at the same time, I figure we're all going to die anyway, so a little steak and pesticide and weird dyes in my body won't really matter.

There is a woman on one of the cancer pages I follow who has been a vegan for 35 years and has stage 4 esophageal cancer. There are also multiple patients who have long been vegetarians. People who think a diet will render them immune from all disease and thus immortal just created a false security blanket.

Healthy eating is not a bad thing but preaching that it guarantees perfect health always is delusional.

[samurai_sarah]

@toosweet

A long time ago, my mum met my dad. He was her Prince Charming, but he didn't notice her. So, she threw herself a birthday party. With one guest. Dad fell in love with that plucky, courageous woman. They got married, had a family and lived happily.

And you'll wonder why I am telling this story. My mother wasn't white, my dad is.

The far right that you consider so hated, hates my very existence. To them, I'm criminal for existing. When actually all that happened is that mum and dad fell in love, and started a family.

[RosyDaisy]

I am Vitamin D and Potassium deficient and have to take prescription strength supplements. They no effect on my anxiety and depression. I take Zoloft and Valium for that.

[Kailash]

16 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

I agree that freedom of choice is very important, but I have no problem saying that I think that people who voted for Trump made the wrong choice. I think adultery is immoral and wrong, but I don't think it should be illegal, ykwim?

Of course. I see the difference in allowing choice but not necessarily agreeing with it. Thank you for responding sing3 and also @JillyO and @VineHeart137. I knew I was missing the critical point but couldn't work it by myself.

[Fundie Bunny]

20 hours ago, VeganCupcake said:

Are you saying that all organic labeling is a lie? Are you talking about Spain, America, or everywhere? 

Not all, i said usually. And it certainly happens everywhere

[send*the*ferrets]

32 minutes ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

Yeah, in my fertility groups many women were prescribed birth control as part of their overall TTC plan...I'm really curious as to whether they would ever consider that. Maybe if they only go to uber Christian doctors, they don't suggest that??

The next option was clomid, so grand scheme birth control seemed no big deal. I don't know the fundie opinion on clomid. I think it's been debated. 

[closetcagebaby]

5 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Can you explain what exactly you had to "wait out" that compares even slightly to what Trump is doing? Waiting out gay people getting equal rights and more people getting health care? I am really interested in what you think you had to endure by waiting it out. 

I'd be interested to hear this too. I keep hearing people say that there's too much hyperbole and certain people had to "wait out" Obama, but I really feel that's offensive to say when people's lives are literally on the line. 

I'll use whatever fucking profanity I want against people who are literally endangering the lives of so many I hold dear. It's easy to say be nice when you think things don't effect you.

[Bugaboo]

From DFO Facebook...Jinjer with the Seewald spawn. They do look happy. Jeremy looks so weird without facial hair! 

[SweetFellowshipper]

8 hours ago, toosweet said:

I agree that meds may be necessary for treating mental illness.  I was on meds for anxiety and depression for 15 years.  However, when my husband died, I went off the meds (I had missed several doses due to caring for him, anyway) for two reasons:  1 - I lost his insurance and my doc did not accept my future insurance and 2. I wanted to be sure that when I 'made it to the other side' of the grieving process and was OK, the healing was not masked by meds.  I am a conservative Christian with an open mind (pro choice, etc) and waded through grief counseling (at a Baptist church) believing and KNOWING that God is in control and carries me through good and bad situations. I used scripture, education, and experienced guidance to muddle through the grieving process. ( Xanax did help me sleep)

My husband died of brain cancer and I believe that God knew when He would take him from us and praying for healing was not going  to change that but praying kept us faithful of his healing power and grace that carried him miraculously through 20 years of diagnoses and treatments. And I am still a believer in miracles.  My God does not punish... He allows things to happen and does not tell us nor owe us the reasons.  I am writing this to hopefully relay the message that whether or not I was a good little Christian did not determine the outcome of my husband's life.  When my church prayed for his healing, they also prayed for the strength of us and our daughters to handle whatever happened.  They did not tell us to 'pray harder' or 'study God's word' more.  

When I wanted to have children, I put it in God's hands...but He allowed me to use modern science of fertility drugs (some experimental!) to produce those children.  He was still in control of my childbearing.  And then I used birth control to make sure I didn't have anymore because two was enough for us to love and raise responsibly.

The Duggars would not like me to socialize with their children.  I would encourage education, vocation, hobbies, friends who aren't family, dating to figure out what you like and don't like in a person (a Godly person is not enough --- even Godly people can be jerks and hard to live with if personalities clash) , and being independent. If I were not a strong, independent woman with a career, I would not be able to support my children (who are both now in college), own my home, or live a happy, content life.  I thank my Christian, Godly parents for raising me to do just that.  They raised me to 'not need them or a man' to take care of me.  I married my husband to be with him, not led by him.  We were a team.

And finally, I am saddened that people on this forum feel it necessary to be so hateful (using vulgar expletives or acronyms for them) about the fundies.  People want to be free to voice their opinions and lifestyles without hatred but yet I see so much hatred spewed at the far right.  They voice their opinions without using vulgarity. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.  I disagree with most everything the Duggars teach/preach but I don't wish ill will or hatred on them.  And I certainly don't think anyone who voted for Hillary is an idiot.  When given two choices, we choose what we think is best.  After my child voted (her first election) she texted me writing that "our family voted wrong!" (I, too, saw on FB a cousin had voted and added #I'mwithher).  I told her she didn't vote wrong, she voted how she felt.  Well, my child proudly posted on her FB that she, too, had voted for the first time and  added "#trump".  There were no negative comments...just respectful opinions shared through a hashtag.  I did not vote for Obama but I didn't think anyone who voted for him was stupid or worthy of slanderous accusations.  I put my big girl panties on and waited it out. 

"They voice their opinion without using vulgarity?" So you don't think mocking disabled people was vulgar? You don't think KKK demonstrations are vulgar?  You don't think the mock slave auctions, scores of mock lynchings, racial slurs and many, many burnings in effigy at churches and protests of Obama were vulgar? 

Also, it's nice that you are so deeply privileged that you were able to put on your "big girl panties" and wait out a presidency you didn't like. Tell that to the disabled people who will die or be denied education, the trans people who will be assaulted, the women who will be denied health care because of "pro life" policies, the family members of those who will be deported, the Muslims and POC who have already been harassed, the mentally ill people who will continue to be incarcerated, and the families of Americans who will continue to experience police brutality if Trump's policies are successful. 

The fact is, I don't need to respect those who have made my family and friends suffer already.