JinJer: When Shorts Attack!

[JermajestyDuggar]

5 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

I actually don't blame Jinger for being snarky about the chef. Or for giving her the stank eye. Maybe it was all contrived for the show, but I thought the chef was really rude. Maybe there was some creative editing going on, but Jinger and Jeremy didn't seem all that over the top to me. I get politely asking them to focus on the cooking, but there was no need to be a dick about it or talk to them like they were misbehaving 5-year-olds.

In my experience as a waitress back in the day, chefs are often very blunt and sometimes rude. They also seemed to be hot heads and easily offended. But that's just my experience with the handful of head chefs I worked with. I just noticed similar traits amongst them all. 

[Lurky]

Plus there's also the whole cultural issue of Aussies being much more, erm, "straight-talking" than British/North Americans.  Aussie soaps were a huge thing in the UK when I was a teen, and "some of my best friends are Australian", so I think I'm more used to it than eg JinJer would be (IF it wasn't all contrived to try to make them look interesting)

Co-signing that just because someone sends a FB link claiming it's them, doesn't mean it is!!  It's on the same level as John Shrader/Jill Rodrigues thinking they're being targeted by harlots (and in John's case, with nefarious designs on his virtue) because they get friend requests from a profile with sexually suggestive pictures...

[Gillyweed]

Wow, if that's being bitchy then I guess that I, as someone who almost exclusively speaks with wit and sarcasm, am one of the bitchiest people ever. 

Seriously though, as a person around Jinger's age, that is how most of my friends speak. We do it to egg each other on and make people laugh. And honestly, when Jinger said that, it did make me laugh. 

[Carm_88]

9 hours ago, grandmadugger said:

Someone in the previous thread the shorts were magical pants.  I would like to point out the pants are not magical.  This is all a result of Rufus and his power.  

Ahhhhhh! Rufus! He does it all, doesn't he? 

[nst]

2 hours ago, eveandadam said:

The pouting happened during their car-ride to the chef. She said something about the cars come from the left side are scaring her, or something and then she pouted.

the being bitchy was actually only "bitchy". when the chef told them so stop kissing each other she said in the talking head "it's not like we just got married or anything" in a sarcastic tone.

In general, I got the impression that she was acting more childish and helpless on purpose, why?

it's an attitude she perhaps saw her entire life.  Her mother acts a certain way  - I am sure she copied it - plus she was trying to find her way.... and then the cameras and TLC - Jinge was never one to think for herself - 

Jill I am sure acts helpless and childish more than before she was married.  And that is not an act. 

Jessa seems the same. 

 

[ophelia]

6 minutes ago, nst said:

Jessa seems the same. 

 

Jessa Blessa will always stay Jessa Blessa. If you like it or not.

Actually, this is one of the things that I do like about her. She'll always be kind of bitchy and never pretended to be anything else.

 

Okay. And I adore her hair. And now I'm gonna punish myself for being all fangirly today.

[nst]

2 minutes ago, ophelia said:

Jessa Blessa will always stay Jessa Blessa. If you like it or not.

Actually, this is one of the things that I do like about her. She'll always be kind of bitchy and never pretended to be anything else.

 

Okay. And I adore her hair. And now I'm gonna punish myself for being all fangirly today.

that was my point - Jessa will never compromise - it's in her nature. 

she will naturally be herself - take it or leave it 

[ophelia]

3 minutes ago, nst said:

that was my point - Jessa will never compromise - it's in her nature. 

she will naturally be herself - take it or leave it 

I apologize for being so redundant. It's been a loooong day (and its only 4pm :-( )

[Georgiana]

2 hours ago, singsingsing said:

I actually don't blame Jinger for being snarky about the chef. Or for giving her the stank eye. Maybe it was all contrived for the show, but I thought the chef was really rude. Maybe there was some creative editing going on, but Jinger and Jeremy didn't seem all that over the top to me. I get politely asking them to focus on the cooking, but there was no need to be a dick about it or talk to them like they were misbehaving 5-year-olds.

I disagree.  If you come into someone's place of work and act like a willful, immature child, they have every right to talk to you like an immature child.  PDA is not appropriate during a class, at an office, at a mini-golf course, or in a kitchen like that.  

There are PLENTY of romantic, honeymoon activities in Australia.  If they wanted to act like "newlyweds", they could have chosen one of them.  Or chosen to stay in and get food delivered.  But they didn't.  The chef wasn't comfortable with PDA.  Lots of people aren't.  Additionally, commercial kitchens are a very dangerous place to mess around in any fashion.  She requested they tone it down, they disregarded her discomfort in typical Duggar fashion because only Duggar values and discomfort matter.  

This may be a difference of opinion, but I'm not personally on board the train of "I have to respond politely to your rudeness".  The behavior of the Vuolos was inappropriate, disrespectful, and dangerous.  I think it may have been staged for the show, but in any case, the frustrations and tone from the chef were, IMO, fully warranted.  I'm not a professional chef, but you come into my kitchen acting like that, you wont be there for long.  

[ViolaSebastian]

A general rant (not directed to anyone in particular...) but I hate it that women who aren't 100% nice and easy going are automatically labeled "bitchy."  Men get to be frustrated, commanding, difficult, domineering, sarcastic, gruff, grumpy, etc. But women are just bitches. Frankly, I think it's fine when Duggar daughters don't "keep sweet."  To me, the shows that they're throwing off some of their programming and being real people. 

[nst]

2 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

I disagree.  If you come into someone's place of work and act like a willful, immature child, they have every right to talk to you like an immature child.  PDA is not appropriate during a class, at an office, at a mini-golf course, or in a kitchen like that.  

There are PLENTY of romantic, honeymoon activities in Australia.  If they wanted to act like "newlyweds", they could have chosen one of them.  Or chosen to stay in and get food delivered.  But they didn't.  The chef wasn't comfortable with PDA.  Lots of people aren't.  Additionally, commercial kitchens are a very dangerous place to mess around in any fashion.  She requested they tone it down, they disregarded her discomfort in typical Duggar fashion because only Duggar values and discomfort matter.  

This may be a difference of opinion, but I'm not personally on board the train of "I have to respond politely to your rudeness".  The behavior of the Vuolos was inappropriate, disrespectful, and dangerous.  I think it may have been staged for the show, but in any case, the frustrations and tone from the chef were, IMO, fully warranted.  I'm not a professional chef, but you come into my kitchen acting like that, you wont be there for long.  

Not only do I want you to cook for us but I would have paid money to see Jeremy and Jinge in bed with bed head wearing pj's and eating take out pizza - something about that would have been more authentic and real. 

what they did in the kitchen was act like children

3 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

A general rant (not directed to anyone in particular...) but I hate it that women who aren't 100% nice and easy going are automatically labeled "bitchy."  Men get to be frustrated, commanding, difficult, domineering, sarcastic, gruff, grumpy, etc. But women are just bitches. Frankly, I think it's fine when Duggar daughters don't "keep sweet."  To me, the shows that they're throwing off some of their programming and being real people. 

Jinger wasn't "keeping sweet" because I think she had an image of newlywedness to maintain.  That or Jeremy eggs her on

[2manyKidzzz]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

*shudder*

Y'all realize there was not only one, but TWO mustard color sweaters in the TTH, right? I swear mustard color sweaters breed like Boob and Michelle in that house. I remember seeing a picture with two girls wearing the sweater. 

Mustard is a HolyColor, doncha know? 

[ViolaSebastian]

Honestly, sometimes the sexism and adherence to gender roles in these Duggar daughter threads is as bad as in fundamentalism. The endless talk about Jill's hair, or the narrative that Jessa is a surprisingly good mother, given how "controlling" or "demanding" she is. In a man, the qualities she has would be "leadership qualities."  And are we really saying that a woman who is, for example, a CEO or high powered attorney can't be a good mother? Because we sure as heck wouldn't say a man with the same qualities would be a poor father. Are we ourselves adhering to gender roles when we demand that a woman demonstrate sweetness, softness, and flexibility in her standards in order to be deemed a "good" mother?

 

[MargaretElliott]

I have a thing for earth tones with food names. Mustard, olive, eggplant, sage... Count me in among the mustard cardigan lovers!

And yeah, I didn't view either the chef or Jinger as being bitchy. I'm not really comfortable with any level of PDA, but they seemed to brush it off, move on, and make some palatable seafood. It didn't even really stand out, it was a non-event, at least to me.

I do think that they acted infinitely more natural on the honeymoon, without any chaperones, parents, or boundaries. Before the wedding, it seemed like they would get just close enough that it seemed like they were supposed to kiss. Like when they were meeting each other and leaving, normal couples would go for a small kiss. It seemed like either they were kissing throughout their courtship and forgot the cameras were rolling, or they just really, really wanted to kiss and got as close as they could without doing it. The maddening sexual tension that made their scenes so uncomfortable to watch has dissipated, replaced by plain ol' PDA. I don't know which makes me cringe more, to be honest, but like I said above, I'm not comfortable with PDA, so that's just my opinion 

[SamiKatz]

I didn't find Jinger and Jeremy's behaviour in the kitchen childish, rude or inconsiderate.  They're newly weds and were canoodling, not like a full on make out session or anything.  The chef's admonishment was shown in previews and honestly, I was a little surprised when I saw the scene as I thought Jing/Jer were pretty mild.

I think the chef's issue was that they were in a kitchen and it was possibly dangerous (and chefs are bossy - also worked in kitchens during my employment history)

 

 

[Pukingpearl]

That scene was absolutely completely staged for both the chef and Jinger and Jeremy. That's my opinion, but I've watched an extensive amount of reality tv that eduacated my opinion. So I don't think it's really and indication of anyone's  behavior. It's more like someone from TLC said "how can we give this a story line beyond Jeremy and Jinger in the kitchen?"

[Jilli]

48 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

A general rant (not directed to anyone in particular...) but I hate it that women who aren't 100% nice and easy going are automatically labeled "bitchy."  Men get to be frustrated, commanding, difficult, domineering, sarcastic, gruff, grumpy, etc. But women are just bitches. Frankly, I think it's fine when Duggar daughters don't "keep sweet."  To me, the shows that they're throwing off some of their programming and being real people. 

My therapist literally just brought this up this week. Completely different standards and expectations. Learning to be assertive can be so difficult in society. No one listens until I physically stop them or get verbally aggressive. I would guess it would be even harder when those traits in women are flat out discouraged. 

[zee_four]

3 hours ago, Lurky said:

Plus there's also the whole cultural issue of Aussies being much more, erm, "straight-talking" than British/North Americans.  Aussie soaps were a huge thing in the UK when I was a teen, and "some of my best friends are Australian", so I think I'm more used to it than eg JinJer would be (IF it wasn't all contrived to try to make them look interesting.

I used to be engaged to an Aussie and lived there. I'd say they're straightforward. In a polite way though. Similar to Canadians (Im Canadian Hawai'ian ha ha)

[singsingsing]

I didn't think the kitchen scene was a big deal either. I thought the chef was kind of rude and Jinger and Jeremy were kind of rude. The chef was justified in getting impatient with them and Jinger was justified in getting a bit annoyed with the chef. Nothing shocking.

@zee_four that's interesting, I'm Canadian and I've always found Canadians tend to be much more polite/apologetic/deferential than Aussies and Brits. Not in a better or worse sense, just different. That cultural difference could definitely  have something to do with my interpretation of the chef's behaviour as rather rude, though. 

[SamiKatz]

I worked in restaurant kitchens throughout my teens and twenties. 

I've always seen Gordon Ramsay as a slightly exaggerated version of the chefs I worked with.

 

[VineHeart137]

1 hour ago, Jilli said:

My therapist literally just brought this up this week. Completely different standards and expectations. Learning to be assertive can be so difficult in society. No one listens until I physically stop them or get verbally aggressive. I would guess it would be even harder when those traits in women are flat out discouraged. 

We talked about it in my child development class. It happens for little kids too. With little girls who are assertive, adults will often say stuff like "she's so bossy", little boys who are assertive get "he likes to take charge." Translated to adults- Men who are assertive are leaders, women who are assertive are annoying and/or bitches.

I admit I have called Jessa bossy on occasion, although it's usually in a "Hell yeah, she's not keeping sweet" kind of way, and I would hope that if the tables were flipped I would say the same about Ben, but it's honestly something that's ingrained in a lot of people to the point that we don't even realize it. I'm glad to see people bringing it up and talking about it because I think a lot of people could benefit from being more conscious of the way they label the different sexes.

[Jilli]

4 minutes ago, VineHeart137 said:

We talked about it in my child development class. It happens for little kids too. With little girls who are assertive, adults will often say stuff like "she's so bossy", little boys who are assertive get "he likes to take charge." Translated to adults- Men who are assertive are leaders, women who are assertive are annoying and/or bitches.

I admit I have called Jessa bossy on occasion, although it's usually in a "Hell yeah, she's not keeping sweet" kind of way, and I would hope that if the tables were flipped I would say the same about Ben, but it's honestly something that's ingrained in a lot of people to the point that we don't even realize it. I'm glad to see people bringing it up and talking about it because I think a lot of people could benefit from being more conscious of the way they label the different sexes.

That's neat that they are addressing it that early. I think it should be.

I have the same reaction with Jessa. Mentally I go back and forth if I should use the word because of its negative connotation. But I also like the idea of trying to rebrand the word, not so much for the word itself but to encourage assertiveness.    I don't think it would necessarily catch on though, so I just want to encourage the assertiveness separately, at the very least.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

24 minutes ago, VineHeart137 said:

We talked about it in my child development class. It happens for little kids too. With little girls who are assertive, adults will often say stuff like "she's so bossy", little boys who are assertive get "he likes to take charge." Translated to adults- Men who are assertive are leaders, women who are assertive are annoying and/or bitches.

I admit I have called Jessa bossy on occasion, although it's usually in a "Hell yeah, she's not keeping sweet" kind of way, and I would hope that if the tables were flipped I would say the same about Ben, but it's honestly something that's ingrained in a lot of people to the point that we don't even realize it. I'm glad to see people bringing it up and talking about it because I think a lot of people could benefit from being more conscious of the way they label the different sexes.

They have a T-shirt for these little girls, it says "I'm not bossy, I have leadership skills"

[Carm_88]

Would assertive be a good word for Jessa? I'm not sure. She's definitely a person who knows her own mind. 

[justmy2cents]

My problem with Jinger being called rude and bitchy is that it's the opposite of meek and simple.  There are so many comments here that JInger is a follower and boring and the perfect fundie wife.  The minute she shows some personality she gets slammed for being rude and bitchy. We can't have it both ways.  

Personally I didn't think the chef was all that pissed off.  To me she seemed mildly amused and like the whole set up was in the script. When he was driving she showed that she was nervous.  I would be too if I was in the car with someone driving on the opposite side of the road than he's used to. Her only sin was not keeping sweet, which to me is not a sin.