Jinger and Jeremy: She's in Shorts?!

[DancingPhalanges]

I'm with @VelociRapture with the Magic shorts. Anyone who has been marginalized, discriminated against, or bullied because of the simple right to choose justly would consider the shorts discussion as trivial. 

[Purrl]

3 minutes ago, luxfilia said:

Actually, I CAN see any of the mentioned sisters wearing shorts like that. It wouldn't shock me. But it would be something new for them.

I also think it  won't be long before we see Jessa & Joy (at least) in pants or shorts. I don't think Ben or Austin would mind. Both their sisters/moms wear pants, I believe, so it probably wouldn't be a big deal to them. I can see Ben saying, "Hey, the dress thing was your idea. I could care less." 

[luxfilia]

2 minutes ago, calimojo said:

I didn't say it was an FU, I said that in my mind I want to believe that it was.  It amuses me to think that Jinger was sticking it to her parents because I really dislike them.  I am sure she gave way less thought to wearing a pair of shorts than we have given to all the reasons why and the implications of said shorts. 

 

It was probably a thing like

Jeremy: Let's go shopping.  Oh those would look cute on you?

Jinger:  You think?  Well, let me try them on

Jeremy:  you look great babe

Jinger: thanks baaabe

 

And that was that. 

 

Then we see the picture and 20 pages later we are still debating if she had an agenda with those shorts; Is jeremy an evil shorts forcer, or did she just decide to go for a new look. 

But rest assured,  I think it is pretty likely that Jinger and Jeremy have not ventured too far from fundamentalist bullshit

Your scenario is likely, but I do get an overly dominant vibe from Jeremy. I feel like he influences her fashion choices more than I would ever feel comfortable with my own husband doing. To each their own, but when Jeremy took notice of one of Jinger's outfits in a recent wedding-planning episode-- he asked if the dress was new; she said it had been in storage-- it did make me wonder if he's like some other fundie husbands I've known in real life.

I knew more than one man who forced his OCD and macho-trip onto his wife's way of cleaning and decorating the house, being super controlling and angry even about how a closet was organized. I've known some who make it very clear to their wives what color they prefer the wife's hair, and will be very passive-aggressive and get almost scriptural about these seemingly small matters, perhaps even embarrassing her about it in public. I actually dodged a bullet on that sort of fellow in my own life, and I am very glad I ended up instead with the guy (my now husband) who treats me as an equal who has independent thoughts (unless I ask for his opinion, and I usually have to beg for anything definitive because he likes whatever I choose). Perhaps because I grew up around guys like Jeremy--and was involved with one for a while--I wonder even more about the relationship dynamic between J&J. I'm sure I'm not the only woman who sees them through a similar lens. 

[calimojo]

While I don't think Jeremy told Jinger to wear shorts, I do agree with you that he is style and image conscious.  I could see them going shopping together and he might suggest things.  Jinger, who has always been the most adventurous with fashion of the sisters, was probably eager to have someone who had an interest in fashion and who had opinions about what to wear. 

Her schlubby, sloppy brothers have no fashion sense at all.  She probably enjoys that Jeremy takes an interest in that. 

My dear husband used to love to go shopping with me and help me pick out things.  Then we got married and I couldn't drag him to the mall no matter what.  I always tease him that the pretending to like shopping bit, was a bait and switch and I fell for it. 

I see no reason to assign nefarious intent to wearing a pair of shorts.  There will be plenty about Jeremy for us to be disgusted with, I have no doubt, but if he wants to engage in upgrading and modernizing his wife's wardrobe, then who cares?  I think Jinger would welcome this.  And I doubt we will see her  in a tube top and and hot pants any time soon. 

 

 

[Kira]

14 minutes ago, luxfilia said:

I don't share that fear, but perhaps I too should have less faith in the intelligence of my fellow discussion buddies. Haha, just kidding, but I just don't it's likely anyone who takes to the time to wade through and follow this discussion (or even a page of it) is that senseless. Now that I typed that out, I realized I'm probably wrong, though. I do think people are often very sarcastic, though, and maybe sometimes some readers here take sarcasm literally. But then I was never surprised that Cathy Dillard has the views and personality she does. I guess I grew up around so many people like this and have done so much reading and research elsewhere (and also FJ lurking for years--definitely not just the TV fundies), that t I assume everyone else here has a similar background as well. I guess that's not always the case.

Even though it won't mean anything has changed if all the Duggar women start wearing pants, as you predict, it will be weird to suddenly see them all in pants. Kind of like when we look back at the frumper days and then look at them now. It's worth discussing, not because it means progress, but because it says something about their approach, motivation, and how they are marketing themselves at the time.

My comment was a little over-the -top 

I have seen comments like that. A few years ago someone found a blog a fundie mom who was basically starving her children etc. A few people commented that "at least she wears pants" 

Quite a few people seem surprised that pants wearing, educated people can be fundie. 

 

[luxfilia]

9 minutes ago, DancingPhalanges said:

I'm with @VelociRapture with the Magic shorts. Anyone who has been marginalized, discriminated against, or bullied because of the simple right to choose justly would consider the shorts discussion as trivial. 

I have been those things, and I don't think it's more trivial than many of the things discussed here, and can have some merit as long as everyone is being a realist about what it DOESN'T mean. 

[I.SignedUpforthis]

Didn't Jeremy preach on the fact that you can wear any clothing bc it's what's in your heart that matters..?  Going against the duggar interpretation, so the freed Jing is complying.  I find Jeremy boring.  Much like this set up.  Awkward seeming.  I don't know about it all.  

[RabbitKM]

The shorts picture makes me laugh, because it literally looks like the shorts version of my catholic high school uniform: long shorts to the knee and a polo. 

[Bad Wolf]

A bit off topic, but I've always wondered how anyone could learn to swim in that wholesome swimwear. Looks like it would wrap around your legs.

[calimojo]

I don't much like Jeremy, but I think their affections for one another is genuine.  I think he got involved with the Duggar clan for opportunistic reasons.  Maybe he really did fall quickly for Jinger, but he initially sought out the connection with the family for other reasons. 

 

Jinger seems like a sweet girl, with a sensitive side and a creative streak.  I hope that she grows in her confidence as a woman.  I hope that she learns to speak her mind.  I hope she gets to know enough people that at least some of them will open her world view a bit.  I hope that as she grows and matures, that Jeremy will welcome that and support that because they have a much better chance at a happy marriage if they are equal partners than if Jinger remains  the mild and adoring girl he got to know

[singsingsing]

2 minutes ago, RabbitKM said:

The shorts picture makes me laugh, because it literally looks like the shorts version of my catholic high school uniform: long shorts to the knee and a polo. 

Hey, maybe that's our answer. Jinger realized her education was lacking and decided to enroll in the local Catholic high school. Now THAT would be an interesting story line, haha.

[RabbitKM]

1 minute ago, singsingsing said:

Hey, maybe that's our answer. Jinger realized her education was lacking and decided to enroll in the local Catholic high school. Now THAT would be an interesting story line, haha.

Can you imagine!

But yeah, the outfit surprises me because she usually has a boho vibe, and this look is very preppy. 

[luxfilia]

4 minutes ago, calimojo said:

I see no reason to assign nefarious intent to wearing a pair of shorts.  There will be plenty about Jeremy for us to be disgusted with, I have no doubt, but if he wants to engage in upgrading and modernizing his wife's wardrobe, then who cares?  I think Jinger would welcome this.  And I doubt we will see her  in a tube top and and hot pants any time soon. 

 

 

Fair enough! I just believe pretty strongly that it would be cool if Jinger could welcome these fashion changes WITHOUT it having anything to relate to HIS opinion, sigh. Feeling good about yourself NOT based on someone else's attraction to you is important, in my book. Sure, you want to appeal to your partner, but if he or she prefers a certain color, you don't ONLY want to dress in that color all the time. Jinger probably would go overboard like that. Hmm, I wonder if JB's favorite color is green? Could that explain Moochelle and the shirt from hell?

 I feel like BECAUSE these men have to be okay with it first, they all often are too involved and make their partner feel good or bad about herself depending on what HE likes, instead of her feeling good in something she prefers. For instance, even within the modesty standard of the church I grew up attending, this guy I knew almost made me feel less holy somehow if my hair wasn't straightened (instead of my natural texture). These young preacher types (especially one on reality TV) can be persuasive with their subtle undercuts and suggestions. I mean, using their reasoning, shouldn't the headship only command the woman on modesty? It's different than a regular spouse commenting on your style; even the slightest nuance concerning fashion opinion becomes a new rule/standard.

Sorry for the rant, I should sleep now.

[calimojo]

@luxfilia  What you want for Jinger is wonderful and that is what I think we all want. 

 

But she is not going to come to that overnight.  She has to overcome 23 years of bad.  It will take some time. 

And it might not ever happen.  Even those of us not raised in Fundiedom  are completely self-actualized.  That is a lifelong quest. 

[luxfilia]

Just now, calimojo said:

@luxfilia  What you want for Jinger is wonderful and that is what I think we all want. 

 

But she is not going to come to that overnight.  She has to overcome 23 years of bad.  It will take some time. 

And it might not ever happen.  Even those of us not raised in Fundiedom  are completely self-actualized.  That is a lifelong quest. 

I'm afraid it may never happen at all for Jinger. I'm not just talking about being okay with yourself or not caring about other's opinions. Of course we are always growing, changing, and our levels of independence and self-confidence fluctuate (which is a good thing). I'm speaking about being stuck in the position I was when I was 16-years-old (and the surrounding years), when I couldn't even begin to form an opinion to do with the way I looked without seeing it through this guy's eyes. And it wasn't a typical teenager thing. It was something that lasted for many years and specifically revolved around interweaving prayer, scripture, and age difference to highlight why HE was always right, even about the way I looked. This way of making one feel sinful for having an opinion seems to go along with Jinger feeling "unworthy." If Jeremy makes Jinger feel that way, it's emotionally even worse than the her own father made her feel. I hope he doesn't. Oops, I said I was going to sleep . . . 

[calimojo]

5 minutes ago, RabbitKM said:

Can you imagine!

But yeah, the outfit surprises me because she usually has a boho vibe, and this look is very preppy. 

i think the boho look goes easier with the fundie modesty requirements.  Long flowing skirts, flowery tops.  Colorful scarves to cover up collarbones, etc.   

 

The preppy look is more fitted, more body conscious.  And lets be honest here.  Jeremy has a more sporty/preppy look too.  Can you imagine the suspender wearing duggar boys looking preppy?  She is just having her horizon's expanded. 

 

I married a man 7 years older than me.  He had lived on his own, and had his own place.  I was just out of college when we married.  SO I had lived on my own, but college living, not adult living.  He clearly influenced me.  Not out of patriarchy but just by his experience and maturity.  Within a few months we were on equal footing, but I definitely had some 'growing up to do' and he in some ways he guided that.  But trust me, I am and always have been my own woman.  My husband is a feminist and he not only hasn't tried to manage me, but he would be bored to death by a woman that needed to be led.   The only time he thinks he is the boss of me is when we try to paint or hang wall paper together.  But I solved that by just saying Guess what, You want to run this job?  no problem,  It is all yours.  I will be home in 3 hours and will look forward to seeing your progress.

 

3 minutes ago, luxfilia said:

I'm afraid it may never happen at all for Jinger. I'm not just talking about being okay with yourself or not caring about other's opinions. Of course we are always growing, changing, and our levels of independence and self-confidence fluctuate (which is a good thing). I'm speaking about being stuck in the position I was when I was 16-years-old (and the surrounding years), when I couldn't even begin to form an opinion to do with the way I looked without seeing it through this guy's eyes. And it wasn't a typical teenager thing. It was something that lasted for many years and specifically revolved around interweaving prayer, scripture, and age difference to highlight why HE was always right, even about the way I looked. This way of making one feel sinful for having an opinion seems to go along with Jinger feeling "unworthy." If Jeremy makes Jinger feel that way, it's emotionally even worse than the her own father made her feel. I hope he doesn't. Oops, I said I was going to sleep . . . 

Jinger was made to feel unworthy long before Jeremy.  Remember her tearful speech at Jessa's rehearsal degree?  And her 'testimony' to Ben?  If anything I think Jinger seems more confident since being with Jeremy.  I think having one special person who cares for her has been good for her self esteem.    But I agree, she is still probably very dependent on his approval.  This is the part that I hope will change over time and I hope that he will welcome that change rather than be threatened by it.  Some men resist at first when their wives become more independent, but then find them to be more interesting and more fun partners when these women have taken ownership of their own lives.  Some men can't handle it and it will be the end of the marriage or it will be a constant battleground for control. 

 

I hope Jeremy will be able to handle it, but I have no idea.  It seems like what we know of his parents that his mom has her own interests and such, so maybe he has a good role model in his parents.  But who knows.  I think if Jeremy and Jinger continue to be public figures, we will learn much more about Jeremy Vuolo. 

[immodest_countenance]

It seems like they are at one of the local Universities in Laredo. From table in the background, the pamphlets in Jeremy's hand, it looks like they are evangelizing or perhaps advertising their church or the church's crisis pregnancy center. "Normal" looking would definitely be a prerequisite if you hope to have any success. If you look like frumpy fundies in jean skirts and horse hair you aren't likely to win many people over. 

 

It makes you wonder, what does Jinger think when she see the other students on campus? These are people her own age, in college and enjoying all campus life has to offer. When surrounded by wide-eyed students with nothing but potential and the future ahead of them, I wonder if she feels jealous or insecure about her own lack of education and background. Her husband went to college and managed to get a Bachelors and a Masters degree, and the most Jinger has is MAYBE a GED. More important than shorts or pants, I hope Jeremy nudges Jinger to take classes or pursue some type of undergrad education. That would do more good for Jinger than a long pair of shorts ever would. 

[calimojo]

1 minute ago, immodest_countenance said:

 Her husband went to college and managed to get a Bachelors and a Masters degree, and the most Jinger has is MAYBE a GED. More important than shorts or pants, I hope Jeremy nudges Jinger to take classes or pursue some type of undergrad education. That would do more good for Jinger than a long pair of shorts ever would. 

WOW!  That is exactly right. 

 

funny  though is that people are worried and upset that Jeremy made jinger wear shorts, but if we found out that Jeremy had encouraged her to take some classes we would be thrilled.  

 

 

 

 

[ihaveanexamintwodays]

3 hours ago, Leftitinmysnood said:

I'm not really ready to call her free yet, but wow, shorts in early March. That's commitment to wearing shorts. I live in So. Cal and we aren't quite into all shorts yet for the year.

lol, she lives in laredo, TX. that's pretty damn far south, and probably currently in the 80s and humid during the day. i currently live about 1.5hours central from Houston, which is nowhere near as toasty as Laredo, and it's currently 70F outside at 10:40pm. i'm sure shorts-ish and sleeveless-but-still-modest are a neccessity for her. wouldn't be surprised if Jeremy "recommended" (aka instructed) her to, actually. i definitely wouldn't be surprised if her church-ladies community recommended it. 

[frugalitymom]

I think the shorts are a nice change of pace but not a sign of breaking free.

Maybe she sees others at the church wearing them and they commented on how great they are in the heat or perhaps she saw them and thought they were cute and Jeremy encouraged her to try them on.  

Would be great if she was breaking free but I don't see that happening  but glad to see different clothes on her and actual shoes.

[fluffernutter]

I think it could be as simple as they are both trying to find their footing. He married someone from a much more rigid family. She married someone a bit more relaxed than her parents in his beliefs. They are trying out new things, dipping their toes in the waters. I am thinking it took a huge amount of gumption for her to put those shorts on- like any of us trying a look completely foreign to us. Will the clothes changed their beliefs? No. Clothes are just clothes. Is it refreshing to see a Duggar girl growing up and making a decision- however small on our scale- that's different than her parents? Yes. For me, a solid yes.

[RosyDaisy]

Wow, this is amazing!! Maybe Jinger finally is "free."

Fashion choices =/= changes in beliefs. Jinger married an IFB preacher. His beliefs may not line up 100% with the Duggars, but they do share common patriarchal fundamentalist beliefs. If they didn't, JB would not allow Jeremy anywhere Jinger.

[PainfullyAware]

I used to think fashion was completely superficial and vapid but a good friend of mine is a feminist and also studies fashion. She pointed out the agency of an individual creatively expressing themselves and how much we communicate via our clothing. Accessorizing goes back to Neanderthals after all. It's a core part of being human. So I don't think dress choice is entirely trivial. Wearing shorts could be a small act of agency in an otherwise oppressive patriarchal community. While it doesn't equal rejection of that system at all, it might signal a bit of independence.

Maybe Jinger's kids will have a less restrictive cultish upbringing free from IBLP anyway and chose more for themselves than she can. Even small acts that separate her from the cult are potentially positive. But the question remains about Jeremy and whether his religious beliefs are just another fundie cult- frying pan into the fire. So far I'm getting deeply conservative Christian but not a gothard type cult. The difference being the insular, cut members off from broader society aspect. He seems to engage with broader society at least...or is that wishful thinking?

[freedomfromfrumpers]

6 hours ago, choralcrusader8613 said:

Thanks! Forgot to post the picture.

 

Interesting.  So the photo is outside the student center at Texas A&M International University.  I wonder if they are actually taking real Spanish classes there?   I wonder if Jeremy would encourage her to get further education ... as it seems all the people in his family have college educations of some type.   Thoughts?

[Letizia]

1 hour ago, luxfilia said:

Your scenario is likely, but I do get an overly dominant vibe from Jeremy. I feel like he influences her fashion choices more than I would ever feel comfortable with my own husband doing. To each their own, but when Jeremy took notice of one of Jinger's outfits in a recent wedding-planning episode-- he asked if the dress was new; she said it had been in storage-- it did make me wonder if he's like some other fundie husbands I've known in real life.

I knew more than one man who forced his OCD and macho-trip onto his wife's way of cleaning and decorating the house, being super controlling and angry even about how a closet was organized. I've known some who make it very clear to their wives what color they prefer the wife's hair, and will be very passive-aggressive and get almost scriptural about these seemingly small matters, perhaps even embarrassing her about it in public. I actually dodged a bullet on that sort of fellow in my own life, and I am very glad I ended up instead with the guy (my now husband) who treats me as an equal who has independent thoughts (unless I ask for his opinion, and I usually have to beg for anything definitive because he likes whatever I choose). Perhaps because I grew up around guys like Jeremy--and was involved with one for a while--I wonder even more about the relationship dynamic between J&J. I'm sure I'm not the only woman who sees them through a similar lens. 

I didn't get a bad vibe at all when he asked about the new dress. He told her how good she looked and that he had never seen it before before asking if it was new. Seemed a normal question to me. Nor do I see him being crazy in control like the other pigs you have mentioned. He kept cool when Jessa was bashing his entire apartment and said he didn't care what she did because he just wanted Jinger to be happy doesn't comfortable.Even Jana can't resist trying to kill Jessa it's her eyes when she acts like that. Nor did Jeremy try to offer any opinion to Jinger when they went in for cowboy boots and she instead chose something that looked more like Doc Martens. She picked out what she wanted and all he did was pay for them. I honestly like their vibe. They seem comfortable together. He only crosses into that obnoxious mansplaining mode when he is in preacher mode and he doesn't just do it to Jinger.

I hate 99.9% of what he believes but I can't ignore that once the honeymoon episode aired Jinger seemed more comfortable in her own skin than I've ever seen. She was happy,relaxed,funny,silly,and sarcastic. It was nice to see that change compared to watching Jill unravel and that nightmare that is going on with Joy.