Lori Alexander 16: Protecting Men's Jobs from the Assaults of Women

[dairyfreelife]

Erm...okay. 

Who knew that men don't have any sort of natural tendency towards housework? Who knew that women have a natural tendency towards housework? 

I am just so sure all women just so want and enjoy vacuuming, cleaning toilets, doing dishes, dusting furniture, doing laundry and putting them away, sweeping and mopping, and all those other joyous household tasks. It's just our "natural tendency". Sorry, I just cannot help but laugh. I hardly think anyone, male or female, has a natural tendency towards such tasks. They aren't enjoyable, just do them because we do like not living in filth. 

As for men not wanting to help with the children or home, I think that's just silly. KEN didn't like spending time with his kids so Lori assumes all men don't like it. Most men I know actually like their children and want to spend time with them, sometimes giving up better paying positions because those positions would keep them away from home too much. Most men I know don't mind caring for their children including holding their babies, changing diapers, feeding them, helping around the house, playing with their children, getting them dressed and bathed and off to school, etc. 

Also, interesting that Lori mentions women dropping their children off at preschool. I thought all moms were supposed to homeschool? A-hem. 

[Granwych]

43 minutes ago, usmcmom said:

Does anybody else think that Lori considers an overweight woman to be more of a sinner than a porn-addicted man? 

After all, gluttony (let's be honest, she really means ALL fat women) is a sin but viewing porn?  Eh...even most Christian men do it a few times a month.*

*according to Ken, that is. 

That's because Lori thinks all women are pretty much sinners good only for housework, childcare, and unlimited sex.  Men, nothing but wonderful even if they are child-molesting, wife-beating wastes of protoplasm.

6 minutes ago, freealljs said:

Agree @usmcmom, Lori thinks being an overweight woman worse than porn. My mother is the same.  She equates being overweight with being unhappy and lazy.  Every time I see my mother, she's talking about how she needs to lose 5 pounds.  She is 5 feet tall and wears a size 4. But my mother is very insecure and always looking for validation. Perhaps Lori, deep down, is like my mother.  

Same with my mother, although mom is overweight.  I could never understand mom's disdain for fat people when she is one of them.

[Joyce]

If a man told his wife that he would never tell her how to vote, it would be a disobedience for her to ask him how to vote. Not every husband can be or should be a command man like Ken.

[onemama]

In today's post, Lori explains how disobeying your husband is blasphemy.  

Quote

When you live in disobedience to your husband, you are not loving him and you are showing the world that the Church does not live in submission to Christ, thus blaspheming the Word of God as if the Lord doesn’t give us the power through the Holy Spirit to do what He asks us to do. It shows a very weak Church indeed.

So now, loving our husbands means obeying them, which is supposed to show the world how the Church lives in submission to Christ. Wouldn'T it make more sense for the Church to submit to Christ?  And if the Church submits to Christ, how is a wife not obeying her husband going to somehow change the way the world sees the Church?  

This is so twisted, I don't know where to begin! 

She says she quotes from a Biblehub commentary, but I didn't find the quotes she provides on the site she linked to. Whatever. 

Quote

“Her head, being wholly dependent upon him, and entirely resigned to him, and receiving all from him; from whom alone is all her expectation of provision, protection, comfort, and happiness; wherefore she has respect to all his commands, and esteems all his precepts concerning all things to be right; and yields a cheerful, voluntary, sincere, and hearty obedience to them; arising from a principle of love to him, and joined with honor, fear, and reverence of him: so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything: political, domestic, and ecclesiastic; that is consistent with the laws of God, and the Gospel of Christ.”

Really?  I thought wives weren't supposed to expect their husbands to meet their needs as only God can do that.   How can a wife esteem everything her husband decides to be right? How can she never disagree with him? 

Even Billy Graham's wife, Ruth, is said to have never been baptized as an adult. She believed her baptism as a child into the Presbyterian church was valid, and no argument of Billy's ever changed her mind on that issue.  I'm sure it was big, because Billy Graham is a Baptist minister. Baptists don't accept infant baptism. 

But Ruth Graham was an extremely supportive wife to Billy. Independent (she bought their house, oversaw all repairs and furnished it), but very supportive and, according to biographers, she was also protective.  Billy is known to have said "If you believe God brought us together, let him lead me and you do the following".  

Of course, a male follower of Lori's says: 

Quote

 Let the "but what if he..." begin.

Thank you for your ministry to today's women.

And Lori replies:

Quote

You're welcome and of course, many would rather I teach to the exceptions instead of the truth of God's Word. This is when the Church becomes lukewarm.

I don't know, Lori.  Other commentators have different opinions of what this blaspheming of the Gospel might mean:

Quote

 There was, of course, the fear that wives, carried away by religious fervour, might neglect the plainer every-day duties for the seemingly loftier and more self-denying occupations included under the head of religious works. Such failure in every-day tasks would, of course, be bitterly charged on the religion of Christ, and the gospel would run the danger of being evil-spoken of, even in other than purely Pagan circles. 

And another: 

Quote

that the word of God be not blasphemed; by unbelieving husbands, who, by the ill conduct of their wives, would be provoked to speak ill of the Gospel, as if that taught disaffection and disobedience to them.

I think there's a lot more to the passages that Lori likes to quote.  I'm not sure she gets the point of these instructions that were given to a community living in specific circumstances in a very different culture.  

[Joyce]

Lori twisted Bethadilly's words.

 

Bethadilly: 

Quote

The thought of my husband telling me how to vote made him physically ill.

 

Lori:

Quote

The fact that you wrote that if your husband asked you to vote the way he wanted would make you “physically ill” shows that you do not want to follow his lead but make up the rules for marriage instead; rules that aren’t biblically sound.

 

 

[onemama]

Ah, @Joyce, that exchange is hilarious!!!!  Bethadilly talks about how well her marriage works without all the authority-submission business, but Lori won't be told that her way isn't the only way. 

Quote

You describe a normal, watered-down definition of Christian marriage, Bethadilly, which unfortunately, many follow but this isn’t the marriage described in the Word of God.

And many people are a lot happier in those "normal, watered-down" marriages.  

[EowynW]

I'm Bethadilly. Dang it, I wish I had thought to put that as my profile name here. She's not even listening to a word I'm saying. She deleted one of my comments, when I was replying to her saying I should obey my husband like I obey God. I said my husband didn't want to be put on the same level as God, lol

re: men doing housework

I was raised very fundie and that was a very common attitude. My Mom was/still is dead set about this issue of that the  men didn't have to and shouldn't be expected to  help with cooking, cleaning, any kind of housework and even parenting related tasks like diaper changing, etc. It always confused me. Because the man lives in the house too, and while I understand the person with the lighter work load running more of the homefront, to just sit back and not expect your husband to life a finger is so wrong to me. Same with the diaper changing and getting up with the baby, etc. I understand if Dad is working full time that he can't get up night after night, but if there's a need, surely he should be willing to step in and help. And he for sure should help with diaper changing! I  never wanted to marry a guy like that. I grew up fundie and it was rare that my Dad would help around the house. Granted my mom was a SAHM, but still, he rarely did much until just a few years ago. 

I never wanted to marry a command man. My dad is a command man and most the men in my life were/are. If I only  had the option of marrying a command man I would stay single without hesitation. I married a gem though, thank you Jesus.  Right after I got married I would excitedly tell my folks about how sweet he was and how he was always helping me around the house and how his mom raised him to know how to clean and wash dishes and do laundry etc, and they just said "oh, he just learned that because they didn't have any girls in the house. If he had had sisters they wouldn't have taught him stuff like that." My husband got so ticked when I told him that. I no longer tell my family any thing that goes on here because we are so out of the fundie box. Our boys and girls are going to be taught everything equally.

I think this attitude is very harmful. I remember my brother once saying "why would I need to clean that, that's what I will have my wife around for." I told him if  he married a decent girl with any spunk he'd find a tea pitcher dumped over his head if he said that to  her. My dad was always saying "that's what I have you around for" to us girls when we asked for help with house cleaning or cooking related things. It was so demeaning. 

Whenever my family comes to visit my mom bustles around trying to treat my husband like a king and making sure I do it too and it annoys us both terribly. He makes a point to help wash the dishes and clean up after every meal when family is in town just to reinforce that yes,  husbands do in fact help around the house.

 

Anyway, I've been lurking for a long time. Couldn't join on my phone but finally got computer access. I was raised fundie, as was Mr E. We are slowly sorting through everything and leaving it behind. It's easier for him than me, I think. There's so much guilt in changing your thinking, especially when your parents find out you don't agree with how they raised you. It's really sad, as we still love Jesus and are Christians, but since we aren't aligned with a lot of fundie beliefs it's very uncomfortable around everyone right now. I hope it gets better one day and everyone learns to value relationships over rightness. 

[December]

18 hours ago, Showtunesgirl said:

Please show me a good dad who wouldn't want to spend more time with his children if given the opportunity, or would not consider taking care of his children's needs as one of his responsibilities.

 

I think this is mostly true. But there are plenty of people out there who feel that men aren't cut out to take care of children at all / as well as women. I've encountered people who refer to fathers as "babysitting" when they're taking care of their own children without the mother present -- what an insult! I'm sure these sort of attitudes have turned plenty of men off of child care, or at least left them afraid to show the more nurturing side of their personalities. We seem to be doing better as a society about respecting men as parents (for instance, more ads showing fathers as caregivers instead of just mothers), but there'll probably always be a few idiots clinging to these outmoded ideas. For all the limitations these fundie beliefs place on women's behavior and roles, they place almost as many on men's... and it's equally wrong. 

[onemama]

@EowynW, I had a good laugh reading Lori's replies to you on her blog.  She just can't give up, can she?

 

Regarding men and housework, I was raised in a very patriarchal family. My mom says wives should obey their husbands and be willing to follow and support them, but we were all expected to pull our weight around the house and do chores. As a result, my brothers can keep house as well as my sisters and I can.   After most meals at home, the ones who didn't cook get to wash the dishes and clean up.  Yes, my mom still does a lot, but my dad very often does the dishes when he's around and he has no problem cleaning, doing laundry, cooking  or shopping.  As a full-time working father of ten children, he changed his fair share of diapers and very often took us out to play so my mom had some peace and quiet. He was a  strict dad who often commanded us around, but he never thought that my mom worked less than he did and he didn't expect to be served.

My husband washes dishes, vacuums, cooks (not much... I like to cook), and likes to spend time with our children.  Why shouldn't he do any of these things? 

 

[Hisey]

Welcome, Bethadilly! May I say, you sound like you have a wonderful marriage. Congrats for doing things your way. As you (and your parents) get older, they will probably get used to your "out of the box" ways and things won't be so tense. They may try to change you for a while, then give up. At least that's the way I've seen things play out in my own family.

Great job putting Lori in her place! She doesn't know what to do with you. I like her latest idea--just change your mind, smother your feelings and "decide" that your husband's candidate is the one you like. And don't tell him about it! Yes, that's obedience.

[feministxtian]

Right now my husband does ALL the housework...because I'm working. God willing this will change soon when he finally goes back to work. I'll do more housework since I'll be working part time. I still do the lion's share of the cooking because I'm better at it. My X wa one of those jerks who thought that because he worked he didn't have to lift a finger...one reason of many why he's an X. 

[AlwaysDiscerning]

Wow, catching up here..lots has happened today...surprised her post has 36 comments. 

TREY:

Quote

You say “Sometimes we disagree, but that’s okay since we recognize that each of us are two different people”
NO! The Bible tells you that you and your husband are ONE FLESH and casting a different vote than your husband is a house divided against itself and not only shows disrespect for your husband (whether he knows it or not) but also for the God you claim to worship because you are not following the instructions that He has clearly given to you. (Ephesians 5:24)

 

[choralcrusader8613]

Quote

You say “Sometimes we disagree, but that’s okay since we recognize that each of us are two different people”
NO! The Bible tells you that you and your husband are ONE FLESH and casting a different vote than your husband is a house divided against itself and not only shows disrespect for your husband (whether he knows it or not) but also for the God you claim to worship because you are not following the instructions that He has clearly given to you. (Ephesians 5:24)

Hey, Trey, ever hear of Jim Carville and Mary Matalin? Somehow they manage to work for opposite parties and stay happily married.

[Loveday]

28 minutes ago, choralcrusader8613 said:

Hey, Trey, ever hear of Jim Carville and Mary Matalin? Somehow they manage to work for opposite parties and stay happily married.

But...but...it's not a truly BIBLICAL marriage. And if they're Christians, they're probably not the right brand of Christian anyway, so it just doesn't count. 

 

[Granwych]

4 hours ago, Joyce said:

Lori twisted Bethadilly's words.

 

Bethadilly: 

 

Lori:

 

 

Yup, Lori's ability to "mischaracterize" knows no bounds.

[Imrlgoddess]

I'm not sure what is different for me... I never see all the comments others can see. The latest blog post on Facebook says "8 comments" & none of them feature Trey. The blog itself shows "0 comments". Am I missing something or is it just a digital glitch? 

[Loveday]

1 minute ago, Imrlgoddess said:

I'm not sure what is different for me... I never see all the comments others can see. The latest blog post on Facebook says "8 comments" & none of them feature Trey. The blog itself shows "0 comments". Am I missing something or is it just a digital glitch? 

I think it must be some sort of glitch. I'm not seeing "8 comments" on the latest post. I mean, I see some comments, just not those words at the top. But on the blog, her latest post has 35 comments. Are you going to the blog through the FB post, or through a link to the  blog? If you go by clicking on the FB post, you should see all the comments, includng Trey's.

[AlwaysDiscerning]

The 35 comments was 36 a few hours ago. Trying to see what was deleted, it must have been more than on comment as there were about 5 new ones yet the total number went down. 

[Imrlgoddess]

Thank you @Loveday. I dug a little bit & found the comments under the actual blog post on disobeying/blasphemy. I don't always go to the actual blog, it took me a bit to realize that's typically where "Trey" comments. It seems like there's a point where the Facebook comments & blog comments marry up & show on Facebook.

 

[AlwaysDiscerning]

I never notice the blog comments showing on facebook. I always thought they were both entirely separate. 

[Loveday]

Just now, Imrlgoddess said:

Thank you @Loveday. I dug a little bit & found the comments under the actual blog post on disobeying/blasphemy. I don't always go to the actual blog, it took me a bit to realize that's typically where "Trey" comments. It seems like there's a point where the Facebook comments & blog comments marry up & show on Facebook.

 

I've found that when I go to the blog by clicking on her link at the side of her FB page, I don't see the latest post. There's something like a one-day lag in the connection. But if I  click on the actual article, of course it takes me right there. It's odd. 

[polecat]

Quote

If a husband asks a wife to do something evil or illegal such as rob a bank, participate in a threesome, or watch porn with him, she must disobey him but in everything else, she should obey him, for a godly wife can win a husband who is disobedient to the Word by being in subjection to him (1 Peter 3:1-6).

 

And what if a husband is a Democrat and his wife is a Holy Christian Republican (tm)? Should she still toss aside her independent will and submit to his and vote just exactly like him? 

Something tells me that Lori would decide that this is one of those cases in which a wife can decide the husband is being evil and can then vote against him. I suspect this whole voting issue is all because Lori is assuming that the wives are voting more liberally than their husbands although why she'd assume that is beyond me. For YEARS, I was the more conservative partner in my marriage, politically speaking.

[Joyce]

If Lori wants to go all the way about submission, she should call Ken "lord" just as Sarah did and submissive does, but Lori doesn't.

submissive:

Quote

Do any of you ladies address your husband’s as lord like Sarah did? We cannot pick and choose what we want to follow..obeyING in everything even to the point of calling him lord. Lori do you agree?

Lori:

Quote

We are never commanded to call our husbands “lord” but this is an example to us of their authority over us and the respect and obedience we should be giving them because of it.

submissive:

Quote

1peter3:6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement….is this not a command Lori? This is not a symbolic statement here. This is a commandement. She obeyed and called him lord

Lori:

Quote

Do you call your husband “lord,” submissive?

submissive:

Quote

Yes Lori actually I do. The thing is you are not going to hear that being preached in the church buildings today because as you stated many times they don’t preach about wives submitting to there husband’s. The scripture is clear as how a wife should address her husband if she is in full submission to him.

Lori:

Quote

 

But even the preachers who I love the most who study the Word hours every day and do teach that wives are to be obedient to their husbands don’t teach that wives should call their husbands “lord,” like Michael Pearl, my very favorite. And he takes the Bible very literally and seriously.

There is only one place that states this and is given as an example of how much Sara respected and obeyed her husband. If you are convicted about his, however, you should absolutely call your husband “lord” but neither of us are.

 

submissive:

Quote

Oh ok…sorry that you feel that way…maybe you should ask mr. Pearl how serious he is about the word? Because if he really took the bible seriously then this is something that belongs under submission in all things. As you stated should we not all walk in agreement in all things?

Lori:

Quote

No. Many Christians can disagree on issues such as when the Tribulation occurs, if there is a rapture, free will and election, head covering, and many things such as this. What matters are the important things and submitting to and obeying our husband is an important thing since it is repeated numerous times in the Bible. I am sure the Lord cares a lot more about our actions and attitudes towards our husband than a word we use to address him.

 

[onemama]

5 hours ago, Joyce said:

 

If Lori wants to go all the way about submission, she should call Ken "lord" just as Sarah did and submissive does, but Lori doesn't.

 

Hahaha! 

Who else thinks Submissive is a troll? She's so OTT! 

But Lori, you easily deceivable weaker vessel, who are you to decide what is important and what not? How do you know Michael Pearl isn't slowly slipping into depraved feminist thinking?  

I can't believe I just read this. Trey:

Quote

Just as God puts situations (pop-quizzes) in all of our lives each day to give us the opportunity to obey Him, and show Him that we are in submission to Him, and express our love for Him, husbands sometimes do the same things to their wives and when that happens it is a double test. A test from your husband to see if your are going to be in submission to him and God is watching to see your response also.

And more Trey:

Quote

Doing what you are told to do is obedience, figuring out what you are supposed to do (without being told) and doing it is submission. God calls for submission first, then also for obedience where it is necessary.

And Lori:

Quote

Perfectly stated, Trey.

This is the Cult of Submission! 

[TeddyBonkers]

Okay, I'll play by Lori's rules. 

Lori:

Quote

No. Many Christians can disagree on issues such as when the Tribulation occurs, if there is a rapture, free will and election, head covering, and many things such as this. What matters are the important things and submitting to and obeying our husband is an important thing since it is repeated numerous times in the Bible. I am sure the Lord cares a lot more about our actions and attitudes towards our husband than a word we use to address him.

Are you aware, Lori, that "have the older women teach the younger women" is said only once in the Bible? By your logic, it must not be an important thing.