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Dillards 26 - Grifting All The Way!


choralcrusader8613

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2 hours ago, Foudeb said:

There are many women in CA who are pregnant and give birth and have a toddler and live to tell the tale. Just because it's not the US doesn't mean everyone automatically dies all the time.

Is it a good idea to leave your family and support system when you feel as emotionally vulnerable as Jill does? no.

Is it a death sentence? no.

THANK YOU!! I always wanted to say this. It's annoying and honestly a little disrespectful to freak out over "dangerous" non USA countries. That being said, it is a rural area and the Dullards are idiots who won't search for the good doctors over there.

I don't live in Central America, I live in the very end of South America but my best friend lives in CA and her sister too who recently gave birth without medications at a birthing center with no complications, of course she was watched closely by her OBGYN who's wonderful (they live about two hours away from a city).

But the Dullards are idiots who think they're martyrs and know better than anyone else. My mom who's a nurse with a Master's Degree in Pediatric Nursing would totally punch Jill in the face lol.

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@HermioneSparrow I feel you, and I think there's been a lot of concern trolling re: Zika especially. But for me it's not that she's pregnant in Central America, it's that... it's Jill. She's got that fatal combination of thinking she knows it all but actually being extremely ignorant and foolhardy. Her last birth almost ended in disaster because she refused proper medical care until it was nearly too late, and that was when she was at home, familiar with her surroundings, spoke the language, familiar with the medical system, and most likely had quicker access to higher quality medical care than she does now. I'd probably have just as many misgivings if she were planning to live in, say, rural northern Quebec until she was 8 months pregnant.

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6 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

@HermioneSparrow I feel you, and I think there's been a lot of concern trolling re: Zika especially. But for me it's not that she's pregnant in Central America, it's that... it's Jill. She's got that fatal combination of thinking she knows it all but actually being extremely ignorant and foolhardy. Her last birth almost ended in disaster because she refused proper medical care until it was nearly too late, and that was when she was at home, familiar with her surroundings, spoke the language, familiar with the medical system, and most likely had quicker access to higher quality medical care than she does now. I'd probably have just as many misgivings if she were planning to live in, say, rural northern Quebec until she was 8 months pregnant.

Yep, you voiced my sentiments exactly. That's my worry too, she's not going to look for good medical attention over there if something happens because she knows better, that combined with the fact of them living in a rural area is not a good combo.

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For me it's more like this:

You're lucky enough to be born in a country that has some of the best modern medicine in the world. Why would you martyr yourself and give it up in the worst time possible? I have complete respect for women in CA who have no access to all the stuff we have here. But they are born into that situation and can't afford anything else. Jill has the best opportunities and she's wasting them. Others would kill to have them. It's not a stance against CA. It's just a "what the fuck is going thru your head" thing.

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Plus, why would we want to wish the Dullards on Central America? That isn't fair to them. 

There's great doctors in CA. But patients like the Dullards could do them a lot of harm. They're holier than thou, barely listen, and will probably tell exaggerated, shower rack falling tales about how DANGEROUS delivering with them was. They don't deserve that.

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I hope Jill has a healthy pregnancy and delivery. She has shown herself to get "help" late in the game during Izzy's delivery. This is what is causing concern as I see it. If there were an OBGYN in SCA living close to Jill it is not clear she would seek help from that person. 

Hopefully all will go well and smoothly. Maybe she will get home in time and ....well, we don't even know what she will do. 

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I wonder if the group they were working with (I think its SOS ministries) pressured them that they needed to fulfill their commitment and get back to SCA.  Maybe they signed a 2-3 year agreement and the parent group said that it was enough time being in the US and they needed to finish their commitment even with Jill pregnant.  They could have given them the option that Jill stay in the US and she didn't want to be that far from Derick.

I also think that by leaving and being gone for a while TTH and home changed.  Other people took on responsibilities and made friendships without them. Its like when you came home from college that first summer.  Stuff had changed, people had changed separate from you, and it didn't feel quite like home anymore. They may not feel quite at home in NWA or SCA at this point which would feel very strange especially for Jill.

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I completely agree with you about the feelings of everything seemingly changing after being gone for a period of time @flycat. Life moves on and people bond over experiences that were had when you were away. You change, too, from your own experiences.

Also, back to that picture of Izzy in the sling/being smothered. Wasn't that picture taken at the ATI Big Sandy conference in Texas, when it was also hotter than blazes? Poor kid.

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I wonder if she'll get any care at all in CA? She'd have to find an English speaking care giver or have a translator at her service.

She should be followed for size and growth as well as have her urine periodically checked for protein and sugar.

I do remember Jill getting some prenatal care with Izzy...was that person a "real", educated health care provider or was she in Jill's program?

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2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I wonder if she'll get any care at all in CA? She'd have to find an English speaking care giver or have a translator at her service.

She should be followed for size and growth as well as have her urine periodically checked for protein and sugar.

I do remember Jill getting some prenatal care with Izzy...was that person a "real", educated health care provider or was she in Jill's program?

She doesn't have any care here in the US why would she look for it there?  SHE knows it all, just ask her. 

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9 hours ago, singsingsing said:

@HermioneSparrow I feel you, and I think there's been a lot of concern trolling re: Zika especially. But for me it's not that she's pregnant in Central America, it's that... it's Jill. She's got that fatal combination of thinking she knows it all but actually being extremely ignorant and foolhardy. Her last birth almost ended in disaster because she refused proper medical care until it was nearly too late, and that was when she was at home, familiar with her surroundings, spoke the language, familiar with the medical system, and most likely had quicker access to higher quality medical care than she does now. I'd probably have just as many misgivings if she were planning to live in, say, rural northern Quebec until she was 8 months pregnant.

Jill had an extensive birth plan the first time. I remember her saying her Dr. Said he had never seen a more detailed one. I don't think she was intentionally being foolish with Izzy. 

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5 minutes ago, AlternativeVoice said:

Jill had an extensive birth plan the first time. I remember her saying her Dr. Said he had never seen a more detailed one. I don't think she was intentionally being foolish with Izzy. 

I wonder if it said:

1. Go into labor 

2. Pedicure

3. Chiropractor 

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@nastyhobbitses, I had to look up what duoshao dian meant, but I did know what ni hao and xie xie meant.  One of my Chinese granddaughters wants to learn Mandarin when she gets a bit older.  Her sister will already be conversant in Chinese Sign Language as it is the same as ASL.

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16 minutes ago, AlternativeVoice said:

Jill had an extensive birth plan the first time. I remember her saying her Dr. Said he had never seen a more detailed one. I don't think she was intentionally being foolish with Izzy. 

Of course she wasn't intentionally being foolish, that's the whole point. She thought she knew everything and had it all figured out. She was overly confident in her own knowledge. 

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Also after being in labor for hours your judgment is hardly clear. That was my experience anyway. I would not have wanted to be in in charge of major decisions all on my own when i was in labor. I had professionals to clarify and move things ahead for me. 

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56 minutes ago, AlternativeVoice said:

Jill had an extensive birth plan the first time. I remember her saying her Dr. Said he had never seen a more detailed one. I don't think she was intentionally being foolish with Izzy. 

We always joke at work that is the fastest way to end up with an emergency C-section.  It's true, the bigger and more crazy the birth plan, the more shit that seems to go wrong. I mean like running down the hallway with the bed to the OR wrong baby out in 5 wrong.

  I wonder if Jill truly understands that she needed that section for Izzy.  OR, do you think she feels it could have been avoided?  She waited so long to get help. It makes me wonder if she though maybe they could do a version and turn the baby and she could deliver the giant vaginally, at home in meconium.  I just feel like she's out of touch with reality.  It doesn't help that Jessa just pushed out the second coming at home. This time with no EMS visit or transfusions.

I worry she has not learned anything and is in full on martyr mode.  It's not like we can assume gaggy  D-bag is gonna step in and be the voice of reason. I hope she's not hoping to sneak a Vbac at home down there.

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6 minutes ago, Incognito22 said:

We always joke at work that is the fastest way to end up with an emergency C-section.  It's true the bigger and more crazy the birth plan the more shit that seems to go wrong. I mean like running down the hallway with the bed to the OR wrong!

  I wonder if Jill truly understands she needed that section or do you think she feels it could have been avoided?  She waited so long to get help. It makes me wonder if she though maybe they could do a version and turn the baby and she could deliver the giant baby.  I just feel like she's out of touch with reality.  It doesn't help that Jessa just pushed out the second coming at home this time with no EMS visit.

I worry she hadn't learned and it's not like we can assume baggy D-bag is gonna step in and be the voice of reason.

And I think because Jessa has had two successful home births (ok - one really ok that we know of)  - Jill will go any route to do the same. 

so you doctors and mothers - because she had just such a giant baby in her - was there no possible way she could have delivered him naturally...

if she knew that on any level - that is truly insane 

 

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I just wanted to throw another perspective into this "sick abroad" discussion as someone who has been very ill in a foreign country.

We all know that different countries have different medical procedures, approved drugs, standards, etc.  Generally they are fairly minor changes and still result in adequate to excellent care. However, when you are in a grave situation, exposing your body to something new or unexpected can worsen your condition. 

When I was sick in China, the embassy gave me STRICT instructions not to accept Chinese medical care for this reason. If I needed to be hospitalized, I would be flown to the nearest Western hospital.  I had to have drugs prescribed to me by the embassy doctor in Beijing, filled in a special pharmacy, and then flown down and delivered to me in Guangzhou by an attaché (for reference, that's about the distance from Seattle to San Diego).  

Its not that Chinese hospitals and medicine suck (they have their issues, but generally no, they do not).  It's that when my body was already under so much stress it was not the time to introduce it to unfamiliar care/substances that I could have an unknown allergy to OR that could cause my immune system to react to. 

Another issue is translation.  I did actually go to a Chinese doctor before getting the embassy involved, and even though I speak decently AND had a translator with me, there was still a huge barrier.  Jill has neither of those advantages.  If something goes wrong, it's going to be hard for her to communicate with her medical team what is happening...which may cost vital time and cause things to be missed.

It can be very small things that tip the scales. A single component change in a standard IV drip between countries that causes you an allergic reaction you never anticipated.  Inability to accurately describe the pain you are in to the doctor, causing them to miss something. 

And of course, it's a terrifying ordeal to be so weak, in so much need, and to lack the comfort and familiarity of a system you understand.  I received EXCELLENT care in China (so much that my primary physician remarked on it back in the US), but I never once felt safe like I did when I walked into urgent care after landing in the US.  That's huge. 

I would never, ever, EVER go through that again if I could avoid it.  Not even in Canada where I would receive excellent, subsidized care with no language barrier!  It's just so much harder, and I think J+D are fools for signing up for this possibility willingly. 

Also, if you ever become seriously ill/injured in a foreign country (enough to require emergency medical care) call your embassy!  Even if you just need regular medical care! They're literally there in part to keep you alive, and as such are INCREDIBLY helpful and have TONS of resources! 

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2 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

I wonder if it said:

1. Go into labor 

2. Pedicure

3. Chiropractor 

Haha probably. So there's this book written by Mary somebody , I'm sure someone can correct me on the name. I believe Pride. Im sure fundies read it like the bible. Anyway, in it she states that some women are being forced into unwanted c sections and that leads to less bonding for mother and baby and also putting a limit on the number of children u can have down the line. I don't think any sane Dr would do more than 3 or 4 surgeries. So if Jill grew up believing this , then anything to avoid that would probably be in her birth plan. I honestly believe while she was in labor with Izzy and surgery becoming more likely she was thinking about how it will affect future kids down the line. A bit bonkers. A lot bonkers. But just my theory.

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Just now, AlternativeVoice said:

Haha probably. So there's this book written by Mary somebody , I'm sure someone can correct me on the name. I believe Pride. Im sure fundies read it like the bible. Anyway, in it she states that some women are being forced into unwanted c sections and that leads to less bonding for mother and baby and also putting a limit on the number of children u can have down the line. I don't think any sane Dr would do more than 3 or 4 surgeries. So if Jill grew up believing this , then anything to avoid that would probably be in her birth plan. I honestly believe while she was in labor with Izzy and surgery becoming more likely she was thinking about how it will affect future kids down the line. A bit bonkers. A lot bonkers. But just my theory.

Oh, I think that's a completely sound theory. She watched her mother give birth to 19 kids and she basically signed up for the same. Even if she didn't expect to have 19 herself, I'm sure she expected to easily have 10 or 12. I'm sure she was thinking about how a C-section would affect her future prospects.

That said, I'm like 99% sure that Jana and John David were born by C-section. So Jill's mother had, what? 12 VBACs? I think there were a couple other C-sections before Josie, but I can't remember exactly now. So I'm sure Jill's still crossing her fingers (er, praying) that she can still have a dozen VBACs. The next birth should be pretty telling, because I think once you've had two C-sections in a row most doctors are pretty hesitant to attempt a VBAC.

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1 hour ago, Georgiana said:

I just wanted to throw another perspective into this "sick abroad" discussion as someone who has been very ill in a foreign country.

We all know that different countries have different medical procedures, approved drugs, standards, etc.  Generally they are fairly minor changes and still result in adequate to excellent care. However, when you are in a grave situation, exposing your body to something new or unexpected can worsen your condition. 

When I was sick in China, the embassy gave me STRICT instructions not to accept Chinese medical care for this reason. If I needed to be hospitalized, I would be flown to the nearest Western hospital.  I had to have drugs prescribed to me by the embassy doctor in Beijing, filled in a special pharmacy, and then flown down and delivered to me in Guangzhou by an attaché (for reference, that's about the distance from Seattle to San Diego).  

Its not that Chinese hospitals and medicine suck (they have their issues, but generally no, they do not).  It's that when my body was already under so much stress it was not the time to introduce it to unfamiliar care/substances that I could have an unknown allergy to OR that could cause my immune system to react to. 

Another issue is translation.  I did actually go to a Chinese doctor before getting the embassy involved, and even though I speak decently AND had a translator with me, there was still a huge barrier.  Jill has neither of those advantages.  If something goes wrong, it's going to be hard for her to communicate with her medical team what is happening...which may cost vital time and cause things to be missed.

It can be very small things that tip the scales. A single component change in a standard IV drip between countries that causes you an allergic reaction you never anticipated.  Inability to accurately describe the pain you are in to the doctor, causing them to miss something. 

And of course, it's a terrifying ordeal to be so weak, in so much need, and to lack the comfort and familiarity of a system you understand.  I received EXCELLENT care in China (so much that my primary physician remarked on it back in the US), but I never once felt safe like I did when I walked into urgent care after landing in the US.  That's huge. 

I would never, ever, EVER go through that again if I could avoid it.  Not even in Canada where I would receive excellent, subsidized care with no language barrier!  It's just so much harder, and I think J+D are fools for signing up for this possibility willingly. 

Also, if you ever become seriously ill/injured in a foreign country (enough to require emergency medical care) call your embassy!  Even if you just need regular medical care! They're literally there in part to keep you alive, and as such are INCREDIBLY helpful and have TONS of resources! 

I think it depends on the country and the person. My daughter lives in South America in a large city, and has been hospitalized several times. I was an ICU nurse for 35 years and I traveled down there to check out her care- it was excellent. Most of the docs were US trained and my daughter is bilingual, so the language was not an issue. I think she had better care there than she would have had in the states. She did have private insurance and was in a private hospital. Yes, some of the equipment like the IV pumps as an example, were not the latest that we have here, but all care given was excellent. She had 2 surgeries and received excellent care. And they treated her family wonderfully. We were all part of the team. 

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OT, I hate it when I notice a mistake in my post to late too edit and the mistake is due to fucking Spell Check!  I HATE Spell Check!

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11 hours ago, AlternativeVoice said:

Jill had an extensive birth plan the first time. I remember her saying her Dr. Said he had never seen a more detailed one. I don't think she was intentionally being foolish with Izzy. 

I think she was. She drew up an incredibly specific birth plan that assumed everything would go perfectly hunky-dory, and tried to stick to it despite the fact that it was endangering her life and Israel's when things went pear-shaped. It was like she made an itinerary for a trip to Miami and tried to keep doing all her fun beach activities despite a hurricane making landfall.

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3 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

I think she was. She drew up an incredibly specific birth plan that assumed everything would go perfectly hunky-dory, and tried to stick to it despite the fact that it was endangering her life and Israel's when things went pear-shaped. It was like she made an itinerary for a trip to Miami and tried to keep doing all her fun beach activities despite a hurricane making landfall.

THIS!  That's what I was trying to say. Come hell or high water she was doing it HER way.

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On 18/02/2017 at 2:31 AM, GotCaughtDancing said:

They aren't doing any real missionary work, they are flitting around, finger pointing, preaching Jesus, candy giving and at the end of the day patting themselves on the back about how good they are. 

Okay, serious question here:  If "preaching Jesus" isn't " real missionary work", then what would you guys think of real, valid stuff for missionaries to be doing? 

Laying my cards on the table here: I am a Christian, and as far as I understand it, the entire point of being a missionary is to preach Jesus.  There should be genuine love behind it, and so in many cases that means also doing development work, teaching, medical work, running children's homes, all that kind of thing.  But the #1 purpose is to share the gospel.  So I'm really curious when I read statements like this (it's popped up several different times), and I'd love to hear some other views on this!

I should add, I'm not condoning the Dillards' work, mainly because I can't actually figure out what they ARE doing over there.

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