Dillards 26 - Grifting All The Way!

[nokidsmom]

6 minutes ago, Bim said:

I really hope that this is a phase and they just wanna go and travel with their "missionary" work now while they're young and only have one kid. But they have plans to eventually go back to his normal job and living in one place, although I would never give them that much credit. 

Jill already struggled with Israel in CA, how's she going to manage when she's outnumbered and derrick is off taking his spanish lessons. 

To the bolded, given how much trouble she had the first time around, it seems beyond foolish to give it another go especially with no. 2 on the way and Zika.  Seems the answer might be to do something different, like getting Jill some real therapy to help her cope instead?  But that's not going to happen either.

[nastyhobbitses]

8 hours ago, eveandadam said:

Yes, she does, considering she would be at the end of her 4th month now. Fishy, indeed. My guess would be: either twins or she is 4-6 weeks further along than calculated by their doctor. the Duggars would never skrew with the birth date just to have a storyline of her going into labor "early" and having a baby in CA, would they?

I mean, it does happen. They miscalculated my cousin's birth date by 6 weeks, so it's not impossible.

 

I mean, she looked a lot further along than she really was with Izzy. On this one, I'm willing to chalk it up to not-great core muscles and another gigantic baby.

Also, since Derick is a known Trump supporter, I wonder if he sees the irony of him and his wife moving to a country, not getting proper jobs, imposing their culture on the local people, having a baby there so that there's another mouth to feed, and refusing to learn the language. All I can dare hope is that they're smart enough to get proper immigration docs; you can stay in El Salvador on a $10 tourist card for 90 days (which may explain why they went back and forth so much last time) -- otherwise you have to apply for a visa, which is, BTW, free. Also, any minor child who stays more than 180 days in El Salvador is considered a resident of the country and would need parental consent from a non-traveling parent to leave the country (again, probably why they flew back to the US so much last time). Oh how I will laugh in schadenfreude-induced glee if they overstay or engage in immigration fraud in order to stay.

[socalrules]

So which J kid is going to get sent down to help Jill she is hugely pregnant and likely depressed at her situation? She appeared so miserable last time, I can't imagine how she will be now? Will it be JoHannah or a J-Boy? JoyAnna is courting so she is out and I doubt they will want Jana gone so long. 

 

[Inky]

I can't figure out the need for $24,000 either. Can I assume there is a fairly low cost of living in CA, and maybe they can make the money go further there? 

I wouldn't think so low of them, if they were actually doing something useful there, like building homes or orphanages, or perhaps teaching?  Does anyone know if they've done anything besides visit schoolchildren, handing out pamphlets, trinkets etc, and trying to convert those Catholics to their brand of Christianity?

Wait...I just thought of something positive they're doing. They are providing employment for someone to teach them Spanish! It doesn't sound like they're learning very fast, but there is that!

[Kittikatz]

4 hours ago, lomo6 said:

Wow, that blows my mind. How did he have that kind of money lying around pre-TLC? Some of that must have come from fundraising/donations...if not, then maybe those who are alleging some shadiness on JB's financials are on the right track.

Fundraising probably played a part, but from what I have gathered, JB came from a family with a lot of real estate investments and he was very much involved in the family business model from quite early on. It probably took time to build his passive income empire, and in that time the Duggars may not have been very financially liquid, but I don't think they were ever truly poor.

That said, it's pretty sh*ty of JimBoob to spend money on a election when his family was living in such crowded conditions - but then, he and Moochelle seemed to have always embraced priorities other than their children's well-being.

[Bim]

45 minutes ago, Inky said:

I can't figure out the need for $24,000 either. Can I assume there is a fairly low cost of living in CA, and maybe they can make the money go further there? 

I wouldn't think so low of them, if they were actually doing something useful there, like building homes or orphanages, or perhaps teaching?  Does anyone know if they've done anything besides visit schoolchildren, handing out pamphlets, trinkets etc, and trying to convert those Catholics to their brand of Christianity?

Wait...I just thought of something positive they're doing. They are providing employment for someone to teach them Spanish! It doesn't sound like they're learning very fast, but there is that!

Well I'm sure some of the money is going to their private spanish lessons. I secretly hope the teachers overcharge them. The only thing they really seem to be doing is trying (poorly) to learn spanish. 

Also I'm athiest and raised without a religion but to me it seems like a waste of time to try and convert christians to their brand of christianity. Wouldn't it be better to try and convert agnostics or other religions.

[fluffernutter]

I personally carried like I had a huge truck-sized tire around my entire middle, including my ass. By my third pregnancy I looked 8 months pregnant by like month 5. Still trying to lose that post-partum weight!  (She's 15 years old now). 

[Dandruff]

2 hours ago, socalrules said:

So which J kid is going to get sent down to help Jill she is hugely pregnant and likely depressed at her situation? She appeared so miserable last time, I can't imagine how she will be now? Will it be JoHannah or a J-Boy? JoyAnna is courting so she is out and I doubt they will want Jana gone so long.

I'll guess James and Jennifer.  They were on her buddy team before.

3 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

As far as Derick going back to a real job, I think he could do it if he wanted, but he doesn't.  I don't know if he prefers grifting, perhaps he does, or if he has found that working a real job with an extremely needy and clingy wife like the one he married is like oil and water.  I really think that one of the reasons why he is no longer at Walmart is because of Jill.

I also think so, but believe it was more protecting her "property" than clinginess.  I don't think she was able to cope with him spending so much time working with/near other women.  Wouldn't surprise me if it affected his work relationships; e.g., him rarely if ever joining his co-workers for lunch.  Bet she texted him all day too.

[FaithAndReason]

Re: the $24,000

 

Sorry if this has been discussed. I try to keep up with all the pages in the thread but may have glossed over a few posts. 

Does some of that money go to the missionary group supporting them? Is it SOS? Maybe they require a certain amount of money be given to group directly as a payment for services? So J & D might not need all 24K for themselves. (And I am not defending them, just trying to understand such a large sum of money for people who have seem to spent about 2 months in total "serving" others)  

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

5 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

I agree that they might be running low on money.   There was some backlash to the grifting for their first mission so I can totally see that they didn't raise the amounts they were asking for so they ended up paying more out of pocket.   TLC money can't be what it was before Joshgate so they have less to rely on from that income source as opposed to before.   

As far as Derick going back to a real job, I think he could do it if he wanted, but he doesn't.  I don't know if he prefers grifting, perhaps he does, or if he has found that working a real job with an extremely needy and clingy wife like the one he married is like oil and water.  I really think that one of the reasons why he is no longer at Walmart is because of Jill.    I have no idea if he left voluntarily or not, and I know that both Jill and Derick expressed interest in going into the mission field together as a future goal, but this first mission struck me as something hurriedly put together as if something wasn't working out.  I could be wrong but considering the timing after having a baby, jaw surgery plus recovery time, it seemed a bit too soon somehow. 

Anyway, he's not too far out of his time at Walmart to go back to a real job if he wanted.  He was a tax accountant, that's a skill that's in demand even better if he got a CPA.   It's not too late to make a course correction here but the problem is his wife and the family he married into.

 

Jill being clingy & bored will change once she's got a couple of kids to take care of. Once Dullard #2 comes she will have her hands full if they go back to NWA she will have Jessa & Anna around to hang with plus TTH and everyone there.  Joy will be gone, and Jinger is gone but there are still enough people around to help entertain her/help her with the kids. 

[nokidsmom]

1 hour ago, Dandruff said:

 also think so, but believe it was more protecting her "property" than clinginess.  I don't think she was able to cope with him spending so much time working with/near other women.  Wouldn't surprise me if it affected his work relationships; e.g., him rarely if ever joining his co-workers for lunch.  Bet she texted him all day too.

I think there's something to this as well.   Jill was exposed to the idea that men can cheat if around other women (especially if they aren't as  modest, therefore causing men to just lose control on sight), so therefore the idea of her husband working with other women could be a serious threat to her in her mind. 

I find it totally plausible that that Derick didn't spend time with his coworkers at lunch because his wife showed up to demand the time but also the demands of filming with his in-law family's dog and pony show, plus having a baby and surgery probably took a lot of time away from work.  Given he was a tax accountant, with month and  year end closings, deadlines and such, I can't  imagine that being away this often would not be an issue with his work. 

Between his job, the demands of wife and baby, plus in family and surgery plus recovery, it seems that leaving his job would be inevitable whether it was voluntary or not.

34 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Jill being clingy & bored will change once she's got a couple of kids to take care of. Once Dullard #2 comes she will have her hands full if they go back to NWA she will have Jessa & Anna around to hang with plus TTH and everyone there.  Joy will be gone, and Jinger is gone but there are still enough people around to help entertain her/help her with the kids. 

Unfortunately I see the clingy and bored Jill demanding more time with her husband.   Sure there's family around when they are in NWA but Jessa and Anna have their own families.  JB and J'chelle have lost another J'Slave to marriage so they are be relying more on those who are left.   There's probably enough to help right now but with Joy possibly getting out of the TTH soon and as time goes with more daughters leaving the house (considering the rate they are going) there's going to be less help to "outsource".

[nst]

10 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

She didn't miscalculate, she said that many women go late with their 1st babies so she had her due date but the 2nd date in her head so she wouldn't get too anxious when she went over her due date, knowing that she would going past her actual due date.  Of course had she gone to an actual midwife or OB/GYN they would have known that Izzy was breach and bigand she would have had a c/section 2 weeks before she did, without waiting 70 hours after her water broke. 

serious question? why can't a midwife tell if a baby is breach? they would need a special machine? correct

so it's Jill's fault then because she didn't go to a normal doctor 

[LittleSpouseOnThePrairie]

Also Jill had googly-eyed Michelle as her example of how wives are "supposed to" behave with husbands. She may think that klingy adoration is what a good wife demonstrates.

On February 26, 2017 at 4:34 PM, nokidsmom said:

I think there's something to this as well.   Jill was exposed to the idea that men can cheat if around other women (especially if they aren't as  modest, therefore causing men to just lose control on sight), so therefore the idea of her husband working with other women could be a serious threat to her in her mind. 

 

[Inky]

3 hours ago, FaithAndReason said:

Re: the $24,000

 

Sorry if this has been discussed. I try to keep up with all the pages in the thread but may have glossed over a few posts. 

Does some of that money go to the missionary group supporting them? Is it SOS? Maybe they require a certain amount of money be given to group directly as a payment for services? So J & D might not need all 24K for themselves. (And I am not defending them, just trying to understand such a large sum of money for people who have seem to spent about 2 months in total "serving" others)  

That could very well be true. What little I know of missionaries ( usually people who came to our ladies group at church and put on a presentation) is that they do have to raise money themselves towards their mission. In my experience they usually raise the bulk of the money through fundraising, giving talks, doing extra jobs. Not just sticking a go-fund-us button on a website and letting complete strangers pay the freight without having to lift a finger.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

13 hours ago, lomo6 said:

Wow, that blows my mind. How did he have that kind of money lying around pre-TLC? Some of that must have come from fundraising/donations...if not, then maybe those who are alleging some shadiness on JB's financials are on the right track.

As I recall it, they had just sold a property, so they had a big lump sum available even though they weren't very well off at the time.

13 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Why in the name of fuck is that 26 minutes long? I skipped head to see if it got better it didn't, that woman's voice is enough to make my testicles crawl back up into my abdomen, and I'm a woman. I didn't give 2 shits about her "decor" and  WTF was with the shitty Walton ending? Their viedographer must have been the toddler, and that "music" UGH.  That woman thinks an awful lot of herself. But she really shouldn't. 

Have you explored the RV Full of Grifting threads? Jill is a bottomless well of crazy.

[PennySycamore]

2 hours ago, nst said:

serious question? why can't a midwife tell if a baby is breach? they would need a special machine? correct

so it's Jill's fault then because she didn't go to a normal doctor 

A certified nurse midwife or even a well-trained professional midwife can usually tell if a baby is breech by feeling its position.  They might choose to confirm the breech position by ultrasound.  That being said, babies can and do turn in the last few days before labor and sometimes even turn during labor.  My second daughter's second baby must have turned during labor because she did not realize her baby was breech nor did her doctor till she (the doc) felt the baby's foot during an trial of labor for a VBAC.  My daughter ended up with another c-section and a healthy and vigorous baby girl.

[Bad Wolf]

@PennySycamoreyour daughter was wise to follow her doctor's advice, unlike some Duggars we know. Congratulations, grandma.

[feministxtian]

8 hours ago, fluffernutter said:

 

I personally carried like I had a huge truck-sized tire around my entire middle, including my ass. By my third pregnancy I looked 8 months pregnant by like month 5. Still trying to lose that post-partum weight!  (She's 15 years old now). 

 

My first pregnancy I carried HUGE...like the belly button went away and stretch marks from hell. Second pregnancy, I only got as far as looking like I had a soccer ball under my shirt. Third pregnancy, nothing fit within days of conception and almost 27 years later I not only haven't lost the weight from him, I've gained another 40 lbs. 

[jakesykora]

Spoiler

 

I debated about chiming in earlier, figuring someone else might, but since no one has, maybe this will help a bit...

Apologies in advance for the length, only read if you're interested in specifics on support raising / term stuff in most mission organizations and how I suspect it may help explain the Dillard/$24,000 thing.

Preferencing this, although I know many people who are or have been missionaries, non-are with SOS like J&D. I'm speaking going on all the other organizations I know*, including some of those who are missionaries with incredibly large organizations, in some cases with some of their people serving in countries with a VERY high COL (unlike where the Dillards are in CA, where the COL is much, much lower).

I heard (or else saw them say in print, though I believe the blog post is now edited) J&D say initially when they just went back that phrased it that they needed $24,000 for "the term."

With the organizations I know, if someone is serving "a term" it would mean longer period of time, usually 2-4 years, though that varies by organization -  unless they're specifically short-term (meaning usually 6-12 months, though sometimes even shorter than that - some organizations consider even anything under 2-4 years short-term though)

For most organizations, "a term" would be that 2-4 year length, and typically includes anywhere from usually about 3-6 months of time back in the US (or "sending country" if the missionaries are from another country) for what's usually called furlough (time to rest, reconnect with family/supporters, time to share about their ministry work, and time to raise any needed support) or sometimes they'll call it something like home assignment.

So usually a 2 year term might mean a 2 year assignment but usually about 3-4 months of that back for furlough in their home country. If you serve a 4 year assignment, you'd typically have 6-ish months back (some spread that out and do multiple shorter trips back during that time, others choose or are required to do a full 3-ish years and then for however many months their furlough is)

When missionaries raise support, they typically have a set amount they need for "the term" but usually break it down into how much they need a month - usually because it sounds like daunting and more understandable if you hear it in terms of them needing $____ / month rather than a massive flat amount for the term.

Most organizations do require a small percentage of support raised go to 'overhead' that helps cover the amount needed to run the organization headquarters going, to cover things like printing costs for prayer letters that each missionary sends out, etc. For those that are missionaries for a denomination sometimes a small percentage of their support is actually provided by the denomination (typically coming from tithes from the churches in the denomination) and usually those overhead costs come out of that.

Typically that support amount also covers one round trip for the entire family (to the field and return) and any additional trips or other special financial needs they had not covered by their monthly support they'd have to either cover from any leftover they can scrimp from their monthly support, or they'd need to get organization approval to fundraise for additional needs and then explain any 'above and beyond' support needed to their supporters and have to try to raise it to cover those costs.

For most missionaries, the percentage they need a term varies even within an organization, based on where they are serving (and the COL in the respective location - so someone who is a missionary where it's more expensive to live would usually need to raise much more than someone in a village somewhere in Africa, for instance) plus based on what they do for their assignment, and then of course based on family structure (because if it's just a couple serving vs a family of 6 or 8 or whatever it obviously impacts housing needs, daily expenses such as food, etc.)

So assuming J & D really were saying they needed $24,000 for the term, I'd guess that they're really referring to however much they need for their full assignment period, whatever that is.

Based on that amount, I'd guess it's a 1-2 year term only, because even with the comparatively low COL in most of Central America, that's really NOT much to raise support wise for a term of 1-2 years for a family of (almost) 4. Since assuming SOS works similarly, it'd cover not just monthly living expenses, all ministry expenses, language tutor (or school) type expenses, expenses for schooling their own children (whether that's to cover homeschool curriculum, send their children to a local school, or to boarding school somewhere) medical coverage of some sort, presumably one round trip for each family member, with many organizations a required small percentage that goes into a retirement account for those that are going to be truly long-term, likely some organization overhead percentage, plus all ministry expenses.

Usually when someone is starting off, they also typically have to raise extra initial support. Since many are also having to furnish wherever they're living (even if you find furnished housing, in many cases it doesn't include things like appliances) get start-up language school education (sometimes that happens somewhere pre-field, like even at Middlebury or something, other times on the field) in many cases it means needing to cover getting a vehicle, etc.

And then in some cases there are those who are 'tentmakers' or who do 'business as mission' in some form or another, meaning they're actually holding some more traditional job wherever they serve and they do ministry on the side or more ministry as a lifestyle. In those cases, they typically raise much less support and it really just supplements what they get from their employment.

There are a lot of variables as far as specifics go between organizations, and even within organizations (as I said, in part based on the variance of COL between places and varying family composition) so this isn't something totally cut and dry, but generally speaking, a relative variation of the above is what you'd find within most evangelical mission groups.

My guess with Dillards is if they're really saying $24,000 for the term, they've probably committed to a somewhere between 1-2 years back in CA, and that they're probably taking some granted 'medical furlough' basically, and are paying their own flights back to have baby #2 here, and so the $24,000 is likely intended to cover the entire full term they've committed to, whatever that length is.

I can't imagine it's really only covering the next few months between now and baby #2 coming.

But based on what they're doing in CA and the relatively short time they'd been there to begin with prior to coming home this most recent time, I find it really odd that they even went back now prior to baby #2 instead of just waiting. That's actually the more unusual thing about it all to me based on what I know.

If they'd been there for years, were doing something ministry wise (like flying medical supplies or services and food to remote places or working as the lone medical people in an area or something where their presence has a daily impact on many lives - nationals or serving as support for other missionaries who might be working directly with nationals instead) and had just been home briefly for a family wedding (vs home for all these many months like they were) and found out Jill was pregnant that would be one thing, but they're not doing something non-essential, they hadn't been there that long to start with, and it's not like they were only home a month and she was super early in her pregnancy (plus the Zika risk component)

Anyway, I realize this is very long, and again, I'm not speaking about SOS specifically. But as this is general framework with the organizations I have experience with for one reason or another, hopefully it might help clarify what I suspect J&D mean but did a crappy job of explaining, as far as what it seems likely they were trying to express in that messy blog post thing.

* The organizations I'm speaking of are all evangelical or those sent by mainstream denominations. I have absolutely no knowledge of specifics of SOS or any more fundie type mission groups at all, but the extent of experience I have with (or knowledge of from people I know well or organizations I've had cause to interact with for some reason or another over the years) with more mainstream Christian mission organizations is pretty consistent across the board, and I suspect is likely relatively similar to what is probably true with the Dillards.

 

[Coy Koi]

Thanks for the explanation, @jakesykora, I found that very interesting to learn about. It is really hard to imagine they could be so ridiculous as to not bother giving anyone the slightest clue what "term" might mean in this case, while asking for a shit-ton of money. On one hand I hope they did mean for the money to last for a couple years because that would be so much more reasonable, but on the other hand, I can't in good conscience wish that on the scary people of Danger America.

[Foudeb]

Jill's struggles, to me, are a perfect illustration of how their crazy fundamentalism just doesn't work. As a girl she was the one who chugged the kool-aid, wanted to be a missionary etc. Now that she has a headship and the beginning of her own brood and gets to be a missionary and... she really doesn't look like she's enjoying it.

What she needed was to become an adult - to have some agency in her life, to get to choose where she lives and with whom etc. And that's also precisely what their cult is denying her.

Jessa's the smarter of the two - choosing a child for a husband does mean she gets to make some of the decisions. Even if they are questionable - turning herself into a baby machine, living in her parents' back yard - at least they're her own.

I do feel for both of them though. They could be so much happier outside of that cult.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

12 hours ago, nst said:

serious question? why can't a midwife tell if a baby is breach? they would need a special machine? correct

so it's Jill's fault then because she didn't go to a normal doctor 

I said Doctor OR a real Midwife, a good midwife will be able to tell the babies position just by palpating the woman's stomach, and if she is unsure she would send her for an u/s to confirm.  Jill is not a real midwife and doesn't see a real midwife

Even with the certification Jill has she should have known that you shouldn't go much more than 24 hours after your water breaks to deliver (this is what I was told when my water broke)  the risk of infection increases the longer you wait, she waited around 65 hours before heading to the hospital and Izzy was delivered 70 hours after her water broke. So yes in this regard it was her fault, for not having the brains God gave a goose to see a real doctor or midwife during her 42 weeks of pregnancy. 

[SassyPants]

14 hours ago, nst said:

serious question? why can't a midwife tell if a baby is breach? they would need a special machine? correct

so it's Jill's fault then because she didn't go to a normal doctor 

A well trained MW should be able to tell if the baby was breech. Jill claimed the baby flipped during labor. IDK, that's an awful big baby to be flipping without anyone noticing. I'd suspect that someone was monitoring Jill and the baby  while she was laboring.

I'm not sure if this was not just a last minute story as to not make Jill to look like a failure {on her own part, not saying that c-sec=failure]. There were plenty of reasons for a possible c-section beyond a breech presentation: PROM, first baby with failure to progress, + GBS, meconium staining...

[Bad Wolf]

Is there any information on how Zika affects babies once they're born and young children? Did Jill  check this out before she took off for DCA? Silly question.

[Iamtheway]

8 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I said Doctor OR a real Midwife, a good midwife will be able to tell the babies position just by palpating the woman's stomach, and if she is unsure she would send her for an u/s to confirm.  Jill is not a real midwife and doesn't see a real midwife

Even with the certification Jill has she should have known that you shouldn't go much more than 24 hours after your water breaks to deliver (this is what I was told when my water broke)  the risk of infection increases the longer you wait, she waited around 65 hours before heading to the hospital and Izzy was delivered 70 hours after her water broke. So yes in this regard it was her fault, for not having the brains God gave a goose to see a real doctor or midwife during her 42 weeks of pregnancy. 

In Sweden it's 48 hours. That's how long they wait before they induce. I was induced a bit earlier (because they felt sorry for me for being so tired before the hardest part even started) and Miniway was born 53 hours after the water broke. 

 

4 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Is there any information on how Zika affects babies once they're born and young children? Did Jill  check this out before she took off for DCA? Silly question.

Really silly question. Of course she didn't, because Jesus!