John Shrader Pt 10 - God's Glutton's Greatest Grifts

[picklepizzas]

9 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

Why would they need to visit US to court? I mean, Zambia is full of young boys and girls to court. Oh, wait...

who could those kids even court, at this point? they left iblp in the dust years ago, john's ruined his relationship with his supporting churches to the point where they dropped him and now he's mostly supported by his father's church...he seems to follow his own unique and inflexible brand of theology and looks down on everyone who doesn't (so...everyone in the world). who would even be good enough for him? 

[anjulibai]

The girls would likely have a fair amount of courting options. Their mom has proven she's fertile, and as she's obviously a hard worker, likely the girls would be trained to be, too. The boys would be a harder sell, as they likely will have discernible money-making skills. Being missionaries might be seen as a plus, but then again, maybe not as even by fundie standards, John is not a successful missionary. I think it's possible one of the boys might be allowed to marry a Zambian woman, if only for the bragging value, but definitely not one of the girls. 

[formergothardite]

Despite his poem of humility and repentance, life is still going bad for John. I think his chickens might be coming home to roost. 

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We took four major hits to the missionary ministry here in Sub-Saharan Africa (and mine and Esther hearts) in the past five days, but THREE of them just this evening alone.

I'm pretty devastated tonight.

God is allowing me to be crushed...

To powder.

That's the meaning of the Biblical word "Contrite". It only appears in four verses in the King James Bible. Pretty significant.

Could really use your fervent prayers right now.

 

And as always, John can't be crushed to powder if he also doesn't get attention.

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Feel free to share if so led.

I did feel led to share this with FJ. 

[Gobsmacked]

Thankyou for keeping us in the loop Formergothardite. 

[Howl]

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We took four major hits to the missionary ministry here in Sub-Saharan Africa (and mine and Esther hearts) in the past five days, but THREE of them just this evening alone.....I'm pretty devastated tonight......God is allowing me to be crushed...To powder.

This is the teaser.  John's just waiting for people to go, "OMG, what happened?What happened?  What? WHAT?  

John realized he's getting low on jerky and roasted and salted sunflower seeds?  The two million tracts he the guys printed got wet?  All of the converts from Christianity to John-ianity have left?  Somebody asked about the juice fast? Their visas aren't renewed?  The Troupie wouldn't start?  Somebody found the damn plane?  What?  WHAT???????

[Palimpsest]

Four major hits!  FOUR!  What were they, Johnny-boy?  

Did you all notice the post before that? Methinks that there have been some complaints and John has been told he isn't playing nicely with others.  Even his donors are tired of him sitting on huge numbers of supplies.

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Was such a blessing to be able to share around 3,000 John and Romans Gospel Booklets with Bro. Justin Sauder.

Wow, he liberated all those booklets from the chicken house.  And, ah, yes.  There are other missionaries in Sub-Saharan Africa.  Bro. Sauder seems to be doing a better job than John.

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Bro. Justin has started an outreach ministry in view of planting another church to the West of Lusaka. Pictured are the deaf children that have a school on their church property receiving their own copy! The smiles are precious and priceless!

And Bro Sauder managed to hook John up with another missionary:

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We were also able to provide another 3,000 to another Missionary on the East side of the Capitol of Lusaka, Bro. Martin Chilando. Bro. Chilando was led to Christ as a teenager, went to America, received citizenship, but has now returned with his family as a missionary to his people. He just recently been making inquiries about getting some booklets from another J&R ministry and had been told maybe by 2018! He then asked Bro. Justin if they had any booklets? I had just told Bro. Justin about the booklets and was bringing some to him, so he informed Bro. Martin! What a joy to share this precious Seed with these men.

And even more!

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We also took more than 2,000 John and Romans as well two hours South to the town of Monse, where there is a faithful indigenous Independent Baptist Zambian Church. I took our four oldest boys and we had a wonderful time camping there at the church.

What a joy!

Really, donors.  Why not skip the middleman of John and send directly to these other people?  

[formergothardite]

23 minutes ago, Howl said:

What?  WHAT???????

Sadly we shall never know because John will never let folks know what is truly going on. If he did it would look less like four Satanic hits on his ministry and more like four times John did something stupid and Daddy couldn't fix it. I noticed someone asked what happened. 

@Palimpsest, judging from this:

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We don't want to be "stingy" with this provision, but get them given out!

I think you are right that there have been complaints about John hoarding supplies and refusing to share. 

[Carol]

This is .  He likes to and and when he's not .  often gets gets on his , but he gets when people say he is .  He attributes this to  and the .  Because he has

all the other in the area because they don't enough they have told him and hope he is run over by a herd of

.  

Poor , he so often no one cares anymore.  Except .

 

[Granwych]

Poor dopey bastard.  Even  has better people to harass (but don't tell Brother John, he'll really feel ignored.)

[gustava]

Why books of John and Romans?

[Palimpsest]

6 minutes ago, gustava said:

Why books of John and Romans?

They are often packaged together for evangelistic purposes. It is not just Shrader.

I think it is because John is the outlier of the gospels.  "One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just doesn't belong."  The Synoptic gospels are more narrative history and agree with each other with minor differences.  John covers the major events but adds details not covered in the other gospels.  It also goes off into a lot of interpretation of the messianic signs and miracles and is big on the exaltation of Jesus post-resurrection.  John is supposed to have been written significantly later than the other gospels to "clarify" the message.

Epistle to the Romans?  Supposed to be the masterpiece of Paul's works and the clearest.  I always loathed Paul.

[bertnee]

Romans also has the verses in the "Roman Road to Salvation" which are a selection of Bible verses that you can memorize easily and use to answer any "challenges" when you're trying to convert someone. More here from a Christian site. (Of course, you should NOT memorize the version on that site, as it is in the unholy ebil New King James Version. Original KJV is the only version that counts, Jeebus told me so himself!!)

[FeministShrew]

Back in the day I heard Baptist and Free Will Baptist pastors say that all you needed to "witness" to someone was John 3:16 and the Romans Road. Supposeedly because they were easy to memorize, but now I think it's because they are inoffensive & emphasize the love of God. John is supposed to be a love letter from God, & Romans is supposed to inspire you with great teaching on living a Christian life (insert eyeroll). Get them sucked in with the easy stuff, then hit them with all the dogma, doctrine, & rules.
No John 3:16 for IFBs, though. They believe you have to be scared of burning in hell before you can be saved. And the Romans Road is "easy believism." (The ones I've known, YMMV.)

[formergothardite]

So John is still moaning about how God is crushing him. He starts of rambling about how hard it is to discipline people in church and that you can be sure your sins will find you out. Then he switches to how you can't lie to God and then this drivel:

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Please continue praying for me.

My heart is so heavy right now.

The tears spring to my eyes without notice.

My heart is like wax within me.

I tremble to see the lack of fear of God.

But God is not mocked.

God is revealing many hearts here in Sub-Saharan Africa.

Including mine.

Thank you for Your prayers dearly beloved.

I'm so crushed right now.

Contrite.

Broken.

So needful of Grace...

Strength...

Help.

So please keep praying.

Bro. John Shrader 
Zambia

 

Did he get writing lessons from Miss Raquel? 

[Palimpsest]

Or Miss Raquel got writing lessons from John.

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It's agonizingly heartbreaking to see those whom you deeply love, and have poured your life out for, living a lie.

I haven't seen John pouring his life out for anyone.  Or loving anyone except for himself.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

I'm not surprised after John 'disciplining' them people are leaving.

Lots of other churches to join where the leader isn't a arrogant ass.

i can just imagine the way he goes about it too. Ugh. 

A HUGE thank you to those keeping the rest of us informed on my favourite fundy to snark on. May God truly bless you for your good work

[picklepizzas]

WTH is this latest thing about?? Are his followers contacting his facebook friends to see if he's actually a fraud? are the zambian authorities contacting his facebook friends to see if he's a fraud? Who is contacting who behind john's back?!? (And whoever they are - godspeed!)

 

"Word of Caution and Request

As we try to minister to and encourage the precious people here in Africa that God has brought us to, would you help us please?

If you are directly contacted by someone, would you prayerfully consider letting us know about that?

I know most, if not all of you, don't want to be working against what we are trying to accomplish here in a counter-productive way.

Please private message me or email me if you have anything you wish to share with Esther and I.

Please consider that the missionary has direct, hands-on, real time knowledge of the individual/s and/or situation here on the field.

Please exercise wisdom and discernment, and thank you for Co-laborering together with us to make a real difference for the Kingdom of God here in Sub-Saharan Africa.

Bro. John and Esther Shrader 
Zambia"

[formergothardite]

That is odd. So somebody is contacting his friends on FB and asking or saying something. I bet this has something to do with the four hits to his ministry. 

[Palimpsest]

It sounds to me as though some of his former followers and perhaps fellow missionaries in Sub-Saharan Africa have had enough.  John is a real blot on the missionary landscape.

I doubt that the authorities would bother with John's facebook friends.

[JeanieCat]

1 hour ago, Milly-Molly-Mandy said:

I'm not surprised after John 'disciplining' them people are leaving.

Lots of other churches to join where the leader isn't a arrogant ass.?

i can just imagine the way he goes about it too. Ugh. 

A HUGE thank you to those keeping the rest of us informed on my favourite fundy to snark on. May God truly bless you for your good work

I have been a church-goer all my life but I have no idea what" church discipline" is!  Is there anybody in FJ who has experienced this?  I know the Shraders  have very rigid beliefs regarding everything from pre-marital sex to sexual orientation, ad infinitum. Is he publicly shaming people in front of the congregation for every little indiscretion? We had a minister who left under a cloud but most of us were not privy to the details. I think he embezzled funds, but he was not publicly shamed!

 

[Palimpsest]

21 minutes ago, JeanieCat said:

I have been a church-goer all my life but I have no idea what" church discipline" is!  Is there anybody in FJ who has experienced this?  I know the Shraders  have very rigid beliefs regarding everything from pre-marital sex to sexual orientation, ad infinitum. Is he publicly shaming people in front of the congregation for every little indiscretion? We had a minister who left under a cloud but most of us were not privy to the details. I think he embezzled funds, but he was not publicly shamed!

 

Never experienced it.  

However, Church discipline according to Covenant Churches (please everyone run like hell from a Covenant Church) is:

 A perversion of Matthew 18:15 - 17.  Confront.  Confront with witnesses.  Whatever the crime keep it within the church and do not involve secular authorities.

They add a dash of Titus (warn the unrepentant), a pinch of Romans (excommunicate and shun their unrepentant derrieres if they don't confess and repent - very Pauline),

But should they repent - forgive them.  I think that is somewhere in Corinthians 2. 

Doug Phillips famously refused the Church discipline that he himself had enforced at BCA.  So did Scott Brown when he was up against the wall with his former church.

Take home message:  What is OK for the average goose is not OK for Patriarchal assholes who get hoist with their own petards.

 

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, JeanieCat said:

We had a minister who left under a cloud but most of us were not privy to the details. I think he embezzled funds, but he was not publicly shamed!

Yes, to be fair, it is not just Fundies!

I have more dirt than I should have on the former Vicar (or was he a Rector) of my mother's CoE church.  They got conned by a con-artist.  Because he didn't embezzle church funds, just forged his wife's signature and grabbed his step- daughters' trust funds, they had the worst time getting rid of him.  He pleaded temporary insanity in court.  The church sent him on long-term rehab. but somehow they couldn't just sack him.

No "official" public shaming but the gossip was epic.  And all those church people sworn to confidentiality were spilling all to the visitor to town.  My mind just boggled.

[FeministShrew]

I've never experienced church discipline but while I was a member of an IFB church (with ex #1) a man was put under church discipline. He had left his wife, stopped coming to church, and was living with his girlfriend. The wife wanted him back, but he had been to a lawyer & inititiated divorce proceedings (since his wife wouldn't file using adultery as grounds, he went for the one year separation (SC). They didn't have any kids.
The wife went to the pastor, the pastor told the guy's best friend to go talk to him & try to get him to go back to the wife. When that didn't work, the pastor & two deacons went to see him. (They wanted the girlfriend to leave so they could talk to him - it was HER house & she refused.) He told them his life was none of their business.
The next Sunday the pastor publicly declared him under church discipline & told the congregation that no one should have any contact with him. He had a time limit to come back to church, go back to his wife, & publicly repent, or "his name will be stricken from the church rolls." 
I heard he laughed about it & said they were crazy. The divorce went through and he & his girlfriend got married. 

No other church I've belonged to (Southern Baptist & Free Will Baptist-turned-non denom) ever publicly put anyone under discipline, even though they had rules about it in the church covenenant. And it wasn't for a lack of candidates, lol. 

[Bethella]

8 hours ago, JeanieCat said:

I have been a church-goer all my life but I have no idea what" church discipline" is!  Is there anybody in FJ who has experienced this?  I know the Shraders  have very rigid beliefs regarding everything from pre-marital sex to sexual orientation, ad infinitum. Is he publicly shaming people in front of the congregation for every little indiscretion? We had a minister who left under a cloud but most of us were not privy to the details. I think he embezzled funds, but he was not publicly shamed!

 

@JeanieCat This is one of the worst church discipline cases I've heard about: while serving as missionaries Jordan Root confessed to his wife that he watched child porn and had previously abused young children. They were sent back to the US where she filed for an annulment (that the marriage had been based on fraud). He repented so the church was fine with him but based on their church covenant she was supposed to seek reconciliation before filing for divorce, but seeking reconciliation would have voided the annulment proceedings. She actually left the church, but they didn't accept her resignation, so she was placed under church discipline that should have been considered harassment and stalking. 

http://thewartburgwatch.com/2015/05/25/part-1-jordan-root-is-a-confessed-internet-child-sex-abuser-should-the-village-church-trust-him/

http://thewartburgwatch.com/2015/05/26/part-2-the-village-church-doesnt-discipline-the-internet-child-sex-abuser-but-disciplines-his-wife/

[Palimpsest]

@Bethella, yes that one has always horrified me too.  Jordan Root was a missionary with SIM (a legitimate missionary org,) that took the correct actions.  The church was so fucked up.

John Shrader has not had many likes on FB for his post asking people to snitch as I would have expected.

@Howl, can you help my memory, please?   I remember we discussed a case where a man under church discipline for (he claimed) blowing the whistle on the cover-up of a sex abuse case was trying desperately to rejoin a Covenant church.  He claimed having reported to the FBI and cited a vague connection to Al Gore to prove that he was trustworthy.  It didn't have its own thread, IIRC.  We couldn't understand why he wanted to be back in the church.

Does that ring any bells?