Scamaritan

[Marian the Librarian]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

Steve was forced to cough up the info that both he and Teri were denied membership due to pre-existing conditions.  No he didn't say what they were.

Steve's pre-existing condition is Terminal God-Wannabe Complex.

[Palimpsest]

20 minutes ago, Howl said:

Maybe they cheat on their taxes....

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that a fair number of that crowd are determined tax resisters with someone like James Pennington CPA on retainer to cook the books  engage in creative accounting as required.

I still think it wicked of them to refuse Medicaid intended to help children.  I don't mind my tax $$ going to help kids even if their parents are consummate assholes.  

[Palimpsest]

14 minutes ago, Marian the Librarian said:

Steve's pre-existing condition is Terminal God-Wannabe Complex.

I'll go for a dual diagnosis:  Terminal God-Wannabe Complex and co-morbid Stick Up the Arse abuse.

Although I did wonder whether he'd admitted to Scamaritan that he had acually inhaled a joint or two while tripping the light fantastic in his youth.  Nah.  Steve would never have that much fun.

[Dark Matters]

45 minutes ago, Mercer said:

I have never been able to wrap my brain around how Scamaritan actually works, and I feel like the more of their explanations I read, the less I understand it. For example:

Okay, that's nice and all, but what if the members vote no? What is the contingency plan? Do bills just go unpaid and/or people don't get care if the members don't volunteer to pay more money?

I also don't get what any of this has to do with the story of the Good Samaritan. The Good Samaritan helped out of the goodness of his heart with no expectation of compensation or repayment. It's a story about generosity and recognition of the common humanity of a stranger in need. I don't see how a cost-sharing agreement where members expect to get back what they put into it matches up with the  lesson of the story.

Fundie logic isn't logical.

[formergothardite]

14 hours ago, December said:

I can't wrap my head around why someone today would opt for a plan that doesn't cover issues from pre-existing conditions. And at least for certain diseases and conditions, I'm sure plenty of fundies do consider them markers of ungodliness.

Made me think of this. 

[MamaJunebug]

7 hours ago, DomWackTroll said:

Nope, they're still in Illinois. 

Too dang close for comfort. 

[katilac]

On 1/16/2017 at 5:42 PM, Anonymousguest said:

I do. My young living oil pusher friend posted on FB recently she just had her first 6 digit year. Her husband is going to retire and they are going to work together to continue to expand the business. 

Ha! My previously mentioned friend is a mutual friend of mine and Stacy's. 

If that's the way she worded it, "my first 6 digit year," I would first of all assume she is talking about $100,000 in sales, not income. Well, my first assumption would probably be that she's exaggerating, lol, but if she's truthful I would assume sales. 

Either way, they are bat shit crazy if her husband retires from his job to expand a trendy MLM business. Even more so if his job has actual benefits, which are worth quite a bit of money. 

That's a high income, sure, but in no way so high that one of us would give up a secure job. Sales, by its nature, is an unreliable income. 

[ophelia]

14 hours ago, fundiefan said:

Fundies fighting on Facebook. Awesome!

Has anyone whined about being attacked yet? Taken their ball and gone home? Told someone they are not the right kind of chrstian? Attacked someone for the use/non use of a doctor/hospital?

The possibilities are endless and I do like to let my imagination run wild sometimes so I will not look. I will simply let my mind go where it wants to. I am seriously giddy just thinking about it.

I'm really wondering when they will start to attack someone elses branch of Christianity. "You cannot be right, you are a paedobaptist." "Oh come on, your wife isn't even skirts only!" And so on. At least none of them cry out over persecution!!!111!!!1! now.

[CloakNDagger]

On 1/17/2017 at 1:32 PM, Palimpsest said:

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that a fair number of that crowd are determined tax resisters with someone like James Pennington CPA on retainer to cook the books  engage in creative accounting as required.

I still think it wicked of them to refuse Medicaid intended to help children.  I don't mind my tax $$ going to help kids even if their parents are consummate assholes.  

I think there are other reasons - like the "principle" of the matter. For instance, if I don't believe that the government should be involved in education, I'll homeschool even if it costs me more because I still have to pay stupid property taxes to the public schools for instance. Plenty of Scamaritan folks are good little IBLP / Got-Hard statists who would not cheat the government out of a single dime because they are bound to "obey every ordinance of man."

[RosyDaisy]

None of the doctors I see accept Samaritan. Off topic, I'm distantly related to James Pennington vis his Sublett ancestors. I don't know the man or want to. Every family tree has a few bad apples.

[Palimpsest]

19 hours ago, CloakNDagger said:

I think there are other reasons - like the "principle" of the matter.

Ah, principle.  Are we getting right into Sovereign Citizen territory here?  

People resist (or protest) taxation for a lot of different reasons.  Check out the Friends and War Tax Resistance sometime.  It's a form of protest that comes and goes in Quakerism.   http://www.friendsjournal.org/quaker-war-tax-resistance/

If people are going to make "principle" the thing to stand on when it comes to taxes then they should also refuse all health care, even in emergencies, refuse to drive on publicly maintained roads, not use public water or sewage systems, and refrain from consuming all products that benefit in any way from government subsidies, etc.  

I don't have kids, in public school or not, but I don't object to or resent spending tax $$ on education and health care for children or those in real need.

The Scamaritan stuff is all about bargaining hospital bills down so that taxpayers are still on the hook to foot the majority of the final bill.  Nice little swipe at "law abiding tax paying" Got-Hardites, BTW.  A lot of them, see Gil Bates, have run out on their medical bills even if they are not members of Scamaritan.  Same result.  Hypocrisy abounds.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

18 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

None of the doctors I see accept Samaritan. Off topic, I'm distantly related to James Pennington vis his Sublett ancestors. I don't know the man or want to. Every family tree has a few bad apples.

Doctors don't accept Samaritan. Samaritan participants are considered "self-pay", and I suppose some doctors could refuse all self-pay patients, though that hasn't been the experience for anyone I know personally. 

[formergothardite]

2 hours ago, JemimaPuddle-Duck said:

Doctors don't accept Samaritan. Samaritan participants are considered "self-pay", and I suppose some doctors could refuse all self-pay patients, though that hasn't been the experience for anyone I know personally. 

What about places where you have to pay for tests and procedures up front? I know that most(all probably) of the specialists my youngest daughter sees will typically ask for our insurance information before the visit and any money that is owed has to be paid before she is seen. Even the pediatrician says all co-pays and money must be paid before being seen. 

The guy who confronted the terrible, horrible Paul Ryan about his asshole quest to remove the Affordable Care Act had the issue that none of the places that could treat his cancer would accept self-pay. 

[slickcat79]

46 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

What about places where you have to pay for tests and procedures up front? I know that most(all probably) of the specialists my youngest daughter sees will typically ask for our insurance information before the visit and any money that is owed has to be paid before she is seen. Even the pediatrician says all co-pays and money must be paid before being seen.

I feel like most doctor's offices are like this. I had a friend rejected from 2 ob/gyn offices when she was pregnant because her medicaid hadn't been approved yet. Another said they would only see her if she made a deposit of something like $2500 up front. Even places that accept "self-pay" will typically ask for a credit card before scheduling an appointment because they want to make sure they have recourse if patients don't pay.

Of course, emergency services can't refuse people, but costs are astronomically higher if that's your only choice for even routine care. It seems like SM really encourages their members to take the most risky and expensive options, because that may be the only way they can get care and have it paid for. 

[Palimpsest]

4 hours ago, JemimaPuddle-Duck said:

Doctors don't accept Samaritan. Samaritan participants are considered "self-pay", and I suppose some doctors could refuse all self-pay patients, though that hasn't been the experience for anyone I know personally. 

Gentle question (and I mean that and you don't have to answer if you don't want to) why are you defending Samaritan? 

Do you think it is either:

a.  viable in the long term or

b. a good option for decent (if not comprehensive) health care for families. 

If either or both of the above, why?

[Mercer]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

Gentle question (and I mean that and you don't have to answer if you don't want to) why are you defending Samaritan? 

Do you think it is either:

a.  viable in the long term or

b. a good option for decent (if not comprehensive) health care for families. 

If either or both of the above, why?

I don't think that providing factual information about how Scamaritan works should be taken as an endorsement.

I was about to post the same thing as Jemima did, not because I think Scamaritan is in any way a beneficial or useful system (I don't think it is either one) but because I don't want posters to be under the impression that they don't have to be concerned about people in their area being conned into participating simply because their local doctors don't explicitly indicate they would accept it.

I read "That hasn't been the experience of anyone I know personally" as meaning the poster and friends have not experienced a doctor refusing to accept self-pay, not specifically Scamaritan. *shrug*

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

Gentle question (and I mean that and you don't have to answer if you don't want to) why are you defending Samaritan? 

Do you think it is either:

a.  viable in the long term or

b. a good option for decent (if not comprehensive) health care for families. 

If either or both of the above, why?

Oh, I honestly didn't realize it sounded like I was defending it.  Most of our friends use it and are very happy with it. We tried it briefly and did not care for it. If my answers seemed short, it's only that I'm tired and haven't felt like writing out long explanations (that's why I haven't answered formergothardite yet).  I just threw out what I thought were quick clarifications. Sorry about that. 

2 minutes ago, Mercer said:

I don't think that providing factual information about how Scamaritan works should be taken as an endorsement.

I was about to post the same thing as Jemima did, not because I think Scamaritan is in any way a beneficial or useful system (I don't think it is either one) but because I don't want posters to be under the impression that they don't have to be concerned about people in their area being conned into participating simply because their local doctors don't explicitly indicate they would accept it.

I read "That hasn't been the experience of anyone I know personally" as meaning the poster and friends have not experienced a doctor refusing to accept self-pay, not specifically Scamaritan. *shrug*

This exactly. Thank you so much. 

[Palimpsest]

11 minutes ago, JemimaPuddle-Duck said:

Oh, I honestly didn't realize it sounded like I was defending it.  Most of our friends use it and are very happy with it. We tried it briefly and did not care for it. If my answers seemed short, it's only that I'm tired and haven't felt like writing out long explanations (that's why I haven't answered formergothardite yet).  I just threw out what I thought were quick clarifications. Sorry about that. 

Thanks. It did sound a bit like a defense, and thanks for the clarification on where you stand.  No need to say sorry.

12 minutes ago, Mercer said:

I don't think that providing factual information about how Scamaritan works should be taken as an endorsement.

Eh, @JemimaPuddle-Duck and I go back a bit.  I was pretty sure she'd get where I was coming from (benignly) and apparently she did.  Apparently you saw it as more aggressive than I intended.  That is a pity. *shrug*.

I do think Scamaritan is going to topple soon.  It just does not seem viable in the long run.  I hope people with limited resources don't get screwed.

[formergothardite]

39 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

I hope people with limited resources don't get screwed.

They most certainly will with this system. 

If you are a healthy person who has children who are relatively healthy, I can see it working. But the second you start having problems and need on going medical care that lasts for years and years, I just don't see it working. 

@JemimaPuddle-Duck, whenever you get the time, could you say if any of the people you know who are members have realized the irony of the organization using the word Samaritan when they are doing the exact opposite of what the Good Samaritan parable taught? 

[Rachel333]

On 1/13/2017 at 7:08 PM, DomWackTroll said:

(literally: Jordan challenges Michael to a duel)

[TeddyBonkers]

One of my cousins is on Scamaritan. He and his wife are about to have their third child any day. I don't understand why-both he and his wife work. He sells cars. She is a dental hygienist. Is there NO real insurance provided for either of these occupations?  

[SadieJane]

It terrifies me that people are using this thinking that it is as decent as insurance. Now, I only work with psych patients, but all of my patients are long term (three days or more) in treatment that is in most cases court mandated (they have no freewill to say no I don't want this.) With Scamaritan and I am sure the other one as well they would look at you as a self pay, and they would probably force a sign up for medicaid/medicare. Healthcare isn't free, and everyone wants paid. You can't choose the moment you get sick.  I wish people knew better than to use programs like this....Makes me a sad panda.

[Rachel333]

Re: Mitchell and Webb - I think my favorite sketch of theirs is Homeopathic A&E 

 

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

8 hours ago, formergothardite said:

They most certainly will with this system. 

If you are a healthy person who has children who are relatively healthy, I can see it working. But the second you start having problems and need on going medical care that lasts for years and years, I just don't see it working. 

@JemimaPuddle-Duck, whenever you get the time, could you say if any of the people you know who are members have realized the irony of the organization using the word Samaritan when they are doing the exact opposite of what the Good Samaritan parable taught? 

I'm not ignoring you, but I've been exhausted for weeks and I don't see that changing for awhile yet. I have a fair number of thoughts on SM, but I hesitate to say much because the thought of lots of questions that I'm expected to answer coherently makes me want to cry honestly. 

 

I would say say that everyone I know acknowledges that SM is not perfect. 

[formergothardite]

2 hours ago, JemimaPuddle-Duck said:

I would say say that everyone I know acknowledges that SM is not perfect. 

Take your time and rest. I understand. But there is a difference between not perfect(that would be ACA) and being the epitome of hypocrisy and exploiting a Bible story in an irreverent way, which is what Scamaritan is doing. I'm not longer a Christian, but there is just something so icky about using the Good Samaritan story in a way that encourages members to do the exact opposite of what Jesus was trying to teach with that parable. And yes, the word Samaritan is referring to the Good Samaritan, the owner admits he chose that name because the Bible story. Too bad he didn't bother to actually learn from the story.