Lori Alexander 14: Environmental Notebook Doodles & Self-Righteous Husband Bashing

[laPapessaGiovanna]

So she's aware of being a cold hearted unempathetic bitch! She knows she indulges in dualistic thought processes. But it's not a sin of course, it's not like she's loud, wears leggings or *gasp* has a job. 

Disclaimer: I don't even believe in whole concept of sin, go figure if I can think that temperamental characteristics are sins. BUT if you can hit your toddler for hours over a bowl of spilled "raisans", well your being unemotional is pathological.

[Free Jana Duggar]

Oh good grief ya'll.  At the end of her newest fb doodle, Lori does her usual preaching about moms being with their children 24/7.  She says even grandparents or dads are not like being with mom.  After all, mom should never get a break.

What an insult to fathers and grandparents.! Does Lori not realize Dads and grandparents could actually enjoy spending time with their children and grandchildren?  

My grandmother kept me after school when I was growing up. I loved her, and we were very close. It didn't take away anything from my relationship with my mom. It gave me more people who loved me.  

Also, I would think if a "sinful" mother is going to work, that dad or grandma would be better than daycare.

[Hisey]

I think the crux of the problem, from a fudnie's point of view, is that it is embarrassing when an adult says hello to your child, and your child stares off into space and ignores them. I know it embarrassed me. But embarrassment does not equal sin.However, I did not think to solve the "problem" by constantly harping on it, like Lori does.

First of all, I suspect 50% of 5 year olds, when confronted by a smiling grownup saying hello, is going to stand silently in place and ignore them, or hide behind their mother. That's just the way it is, Lori. It's not a sin. 

I did invent a little ditty for my kids ("Say hello, say goodbye, look at people in the eye") which made them think I was a brilliant poet (those were the days!). However, they actually remembered to do these things only occasionally. But at least they were aware of the goal. Maybe even that was wrong, I don't know.

However, it doesn't work with shy preteens and teens. You cannot force their shyness away by saying, "YOU ARE SHY. STOP BEING SHY. DID YOU STOP BEING SHY YET? HOW ABOUT NOW?" It's better just to wait, and occasionally give them a nudge in the right direction. I tended to point out ways the kid would personally benefit from "pushing away their shy." (as we called it in my house). Like, I'm telling my 16 year old right now that if she wants a part-time job, she'll have better luck if  goes and talks with some managers.

 

[Maggie Mae]

9 minutes ago, Hisey said:

I think the crux of the problem, from a fudnie's point of view, is that it is embarrassing when an adult says hello to your child, and your child stares off into space and ignores them. I know it embarrassed me. But embarrassment does not equal sin.However, I did not think to solve the "problem" by constantly harping on it, like Lori does.

1

I suspect it is a combination of this and the mindset that "you need to fix this problem when they are young because reasons."  It is easier to create habits when you are young. Kids learn so much faster than growups at some things, and it does seem like it would be easier to teach a child to be outgoing when they are little than have to try and teach them later. 

My concern is that fundies seem to want everyone to have the same personality ("character training") and fundamentalism disregards one simple tenet of the idea of an all knowing, loving, god who knew each person in the womb and gave people gifts. And that is that if this all knowing, all powerful, omnipresent God created each person individually and gave each person a gift so they could serve others and this God, why try and change their core personality that was given by God? 

 

[Hisey]

15 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

I suspect it is a combination of this and the mindset that "you need to fix this problem when they are young because reasons."  It is easier to create habits when you are young. Kids learn so much faster than growups at some things, and it does seem like it would be easier to teach a child to be outgoing when they are little than have to try and teach them later. 

My concern is that fundies seem to want everyone to have the same personality ("character training") and fundamentalism disregards one simple tenet of the idea of an all knowing, loving, god who knew each person in the womb and gave people gifts. And that is that if this all knowing, all powerful, omnipresent God created each person individually and gave each person a gift so they could serve others and this God, why try and change their core personality that was given by God? 

 

I don't think you can teach children to be outgoing at all. I think you are outgoing or you aren't. It does help if the parents are outgoing--I've noticed then their kids are often outgoing, too. I don't really think being shy is a "bad habit"--does everyone have to be outgoing? 

Certainly it makes life easier if you are comfortable in social situations. But frankly, I see shyness in a small child as a developmental stage. Some of those five years hiding behind their mother will always be shy. Most will eventually learn, without training, how to say "hello, how are you?" They may never be outgoing, but they'll learn basic social skills. 

I think you will do more harm than good if you operate under the belief you can "train" your child to be outgoing (not saying you do). Kids are who they are. You can help them learn basic social skills, but you can't control a) how fast they learn them;  whether they enjoy social interactions and c) whether they will seek them out in the future.

Frankly, I don't know any five year old who would respond to my greeting with, "Hello, Mrs. Hisey! How are you? Can you believe all this rain we're getting? Please give Mr. Hisey my regards."

 

[louisa05]

7 minutes ago, Hisey said:

I don't think you can teach children to be outgoing at all. I think you are outgoing or you aren't. It does help if the parents are outgoing--I've noticed then their kids are often outgoing, too. I don't really think being shy is a "bad habit"--does everyone have to be outgoing? 

Certainly it makes life easier if you are comfortable in social situations. But frankly, I see shyness in a small child as a developmental stage. Some of those five years hiding behind their mother will always be shy. Most will eventually learn, without training, how to say "hello, how are you?" They may never be outgoing, but they'll learn basic social skills. 

I think you will do more harm than good if you operate under the belief you can "train" your child to be outgoing (not saying you do). Kids are who they are. You can help them learn basic social skills, but you can't control a) how fast they learn them;  whether they enjoy social interactions and c) whether they will seek them out in the future.

Frankly, I don't know any five year old who would respond to my greeting with, "Hello, Mrs. Hisey! How are you? Can you believe all this rain we're getting? Please give Mr. Hisey my regards."

 

One of my idiot cousins and his even dumber wife had a fifth b-day party for their daughter several years ago. She was a quiet little girl (and remains pretty quiet as a teen now) and a bit shy. They had about 30 kids and a parent or two with most of them, music playing, loud games and a clown in the middle of all of it. When we arrived, we couldn't find the guest of honor. My aunt informed us that she was under a table hiding from it all with this added explanation, "she's just quiet and shy, they are doing stuff like this to hopefully bring her out of it before it is too late". 

I was disgusted. I still am when I think about it. Because I was a quiet and shy five year old and am still a pretty introverted adult (b-day party with 60+ people? kill me first), I crawled under the table with the poor girl and found an absolutely miserable child. 

A shy kid doesn't need disciplined or retrained. S/he is probably going to grow up to be an introverted adult and that's okay. Not everyone needs to be a social butterfly and not everyone needs to make new friends in every hotel breakfast room (I have witnessed the aunt in this story doing that). And not doing that sort of thing doesn't mean a person can't function in a job and handle life. 

[purjolok84]

One of my idiot cousins and his even dumber wife had a fifth b-day party for their daughter several years ago. She was a quiet little girl (and remains pretty quiet as a teen now) and a bit shy. They had about 30 kids and a parent or two with most of them, music playing, loud games and a clown in the middle of all of it. When we arrived, we couldn't find the guest of honor. My aunt informed us that she was under a table hiding from it all with this added explanation, "she's just quiet and shy, they are doing stuff like this to hopefully bring her out of it before it is too late". 
I was disgusted. I still am when I think about it. Because I was a quiet and shy five year old and am still a pretty introverted adult (b-day party with 60+ people? kill me first), I crawled under the table with the poor girl and found an absolutely miserable child. 
A shy kid doesn't need disciplined or retrained. S/he is probably going to grow up to be an introverted adult and that's okay. Not everyone needs to be a social butterfly and not everyone needs to make new friends in every hotel breakfast room (I have witnessed the aunt in this story doing that). And not doing that sort of thing doesn't mean a person can't function in a job and handle life. 

That poor girl! I would have been under the table with her too - I hate parties. I get that there are good intentions (maybe not this situation but other families with shy kids) but some kids are just introverts and that's okay. I hope her parents didn't make her feel bad i.e. 'look at all the effort we put in and you're hiding under the table being an ungrateful brat!'

[Hane]

OT: I'm about to leave the movie theater after seeing Hidden Figures, and I'm still shaking. But, no--these brilliant women would have been more "godly" if they'd followed The Godly Mentor's teachings.

[mango_fandango]

It's like the first example in "Making Great Conversationalists", where apparently it's wrong for a five-year-old to be shy. No. It. Isn't. Isn't shyness a fairly normal step for most kids?? I'm sure the grandma wouldn't be embarrassed about asking the question, she'd just assume the kid is shy, which IS NOT A PROBLEM, MAXWELLS.

Apparently it is seen as a bad thing to be shy in Western culture. Or at least not a positive thing. (See the different cultural views section here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shyness)

[ItsaJjungle]

4 hours ago, Hisey said:

I did invent a little ditty for my kids ("Say hello, say goodbye, look at people in the eye") which made them think I was a brilliant poet (those were the days!). However, they actually remembered to do these things only occasionally. But at least they were aware of the goal. Maybe even that was wrong, I don't know.

 

I hope you don't mind if I steal this (I, too, think you are brilliant.) We are working on this for my kiddos. One is 8 and sometimes acts babyish when adults talk to him, and one is 5 and is a total airhead (in the sweetest way), so she is just in her own world. 

 

 

[Hisey]

4 hours ago, ItsaJjungle said:

I hope you don't mind if I steal this (I, too, think you are brilliant.) We are working on this for my kiddos. One is 8 and sometimes acts babyish when adults talk to him, and one is 5 and is a total airhead (in the sweetest way), so she is just in her own world. 

 

 

Help yourself! All of my poetry is in the public domain. Remember, though, it only worked on occasion--usually when I said it in the car on the way to a social event. Good luck!

[Koala]

I think the proverbs woman has become something  of an annoyance for Lori.  In fact, I think if she could muster the courage, she'd probably call her a detractor.

I have noticed here lately, that when Lori teaches about her, she uses the word "probably" a lot. She "probably" just stood in her doorway and sold things.  She "probably" had her daughters help her sew sashes.  The field she bought was "probably" just a easy way to get her hands on some wine...and her kids helped!" 

But here's what I think really bothers Lori about the proverbs woman:

She *probably* didn't spend the first 25 years of her marriage nagging her husband about food.

She *probably* didn't squander the money THEY BOTH earned on silly things like reupholstering the sofa to the tune of $1500 or investing in carpet that didn't have to be vacuumed. 

She *probably* wouldn't have gossiped about her co-workers (claiming they were Satan worshipers) in hopes of being allowed to stay home and do nothing.  When that didn't work, she *probably* wouldn't have sabotaged her birth control so she could finally get her way.

She *probably* wouldn't have had a nanny hold her children "for hours a day" while she sat on her lazy rear end, and her children *probably* weren't afraid of her.

She *probably* didn't send her maid to the neighbor's house so she could gossip about what a filthy hovel she lived in, and she *probably* was the type of woman who'd have gone over and helped her herself.  Then she'd have kept her mouth shut about it, because when you do a good deed for someone, you don't let the left hand know what the right hand's doing.  (In other words, you don't do it for praise, or gossiping rights).

She was *probably* a discrete woman, who wouldn't have written about her sex life for the whole world to read, and she *probably* wouldn't have wasted a bunch of time talking to whiny men about their  sex lives....because she was too damn busy working!

She *probably* would have mentored women she actually knew, and she *probably* wouldn't have gossiped about the things they told her to make herself seem more godly.

She *probably* didn't have all day to monitor the lives of those around her, because she was *probably* too busy taking care of her own family.  

She *probably* didn't forget to pray for people either.  Or refuse to pray for them at all.

But what do I know...that's all just *probably*

[AlwaysDiscerning]

I was noticing that too. If you have to say probably you don't know for sure, not at least any more certainty than the commenters she argues with.  Oh and buying a field doesn't make you a realtor?  No shit, buying a house doesn't make you a realtor either. 

Lets not forget, as Lori has said, there doesn't have to be  verse for everything! So the fact that there is no verse saying she was a career woman doesn't mean she wasn't so. 

[Imrlgoddess]

I read and reread that passage over Christmas.  I use BibleHub because it gives you all the current versions to reference and compare.  From what I gathered it's a wealthy old woman telling her wealthy (king) son what kind of woman to find...given the lifestyle, as it was mentioned on an earlier thread, the woman in the tale was PROBABLY wealthy.  She had a helper in the home to take care of the daily and the kids.  Households back then aren't what we think of today, they had:  grandparents, children, contracted laborers, other family members, and depending on the level of income, they had slaves living with them.  All of these people had to be taken care of.  Bible era Mesopotamia wasn't 1954 SoCal.  Yes, I'm sure mom took are of her children but she also made sure that the land and home were well balanced while her husband was out on a boat for weeks, or trading, or fighting, or ruling the damn country.  If that meant the helpers kept the kids in check while she spun, wove, and sold then guess what....that's how it went down.  Sounds like a working gal to me!

I think the thing that chaps me about this particular rant of hers is that she and the followers will say these women did tasks (can't say worked!) "FOR THE FAMILY" but a woman today making money and putting it back into her own household isn't doing it for the family.  She's selfish.  No matter her situation or reason for working.  

lazy. spoiled. ass. brat.

[Emilycharlotte]

I laughed when I saw the vehemently underlined "NOT" in that first sentence.  The Proverbs 31 woman is definitely not behaving as Lori would like, and some people have the nerve to not accept Lori's "probablys" as Gospel---and it's just all very frustrating! 

Koala, you hit the nail on the head--Proverbs Lady is one step away from being declared a detractor! 

[quiversR4hunting]

Not that Lori will read it but here is what the Catholic Bishops of America say about Proverbs  31. http://usccb.org/bible/proverbs/31/

This is a preview of what they say (and I'll believe the interpretation from a scholar over Lorkin, any day): 

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* [31:1–9] Though mothers are sources of wisdom in Proverbs (1:8; 6:20), the mother of Lemuel is special in being queen mother, which was an important position in the palace. Queen mothers played an important role in ancient palace life because of their longevity, knowledge of palace politics, and loyalty to their sons; they were in a good position to offer him sound counsel. The language of the poem contains Aramaisms, a sign of its non-Israelite origin.

The first section, vv. 3–5, warns against abuse of sex and alcohol (wine, strong drink) lest the king forget the poor. The second section, vv. 6–9, urges the use of alcohol (strong drink, wine) so that the downtrodden poor can forget their poverty. The real subject of the poem is justice for the poor

 

[bitterseltzer]

It's my biggest pet peeve, when people claim the infallibility of scripture on the basis of a lot of "probably"s or "might"s.

[Koala]

Today Lori's post is dedicated to correcting one of her male readers.

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This is a comment I received on my Facebook page from a man who has become feminized and it’s amazing how many believe what he wrote. It’s not until recently that anyone believed this but now men and women have been led to believe these untruths.

One of her readers comments:

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God bless you for your patient response to people who don't know what they're talking about.

Lori:

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It took an entire post to respond to him. I hope he reads it!

Reader:

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Me too. And is willing to learn from it.

The reason Lori hopes he reads her response, is that she is trying to TEACH him.

In fact, she has dedicated an entire post to teaching this man.

Lori Alexander:

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 I am told to not teach men (1 Timothy 2:12).

Help me here?  Does that verse say that she's not to teach men UNLESS they've become "feminized"??

Lori Alexander:

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I am not supposed to teach men anything 

Except when she does.

[Imrlgoddess]

Well...if he's feminized....then he's not Godly....then it doesn't apply?  Maybe, probably, she's not supposed to teach Godly men....because ya know, a feminized man isn't a MAN, he's just a male who clearly needs an education.  See, Probably he'll read the post, be convicted and then go to a male preacher and learn the real way to live, marry a righteous woman and direct her to Lori's blogs and book, but check them out every so often to make sure the wife understands what she's reading...maybe.  

[lilwriter85]

23 hours ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

Oh good grief ya'll.  At the end of her newest fb doodle, Lori does her usual preaching about moms being with their children 24/7.  She says even grandparents or dads are not like being with mom.  After all, mom should never get a break.

What an insult to fathers and grandparents.! Does Lori not realize Dads and grandparents could actually enjoy spending time with their children and grandchildren?  

My grandmother kept me after school when I was growing up. I loved her, and we were very close. It didn't take away anything from my relationship with my mom. It gave me more people who loved me.  

Also, I would think if a "sinful" mother is going to work, that dad or grandma would be better than daycare.

I have a friend who has the similar belief of moms being with their kids almost all of the time.  My friend has always been a SAHM, but she's not fundie and her kids attend school. She doesn't allow her kids to go on sleepovers at friends' homes, grandparents' homes or other relatives. She has clashed with her parents and in-laws over that. Some of our mutual friends with kids are that point where they can barely stand this friend because she freaks out whenever they mention having a night or weekend away from their kids or sending their kids to spend time with grandparents in the summer.

 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Have you all noticed that Lori is now routinely adding this to her decree that women are to bear children -- "if they are able" (bolding mine)

Methinks that someone has been reading here (Hi Ken!!) or Lori has been told that there are many women who struggle with fertility (possibly even her daughter).

Maybe someone told Lori that her constant haranguing and harping on women having children is insulting and degrading to all those who can't. That she has for years been making these women feel like failures, unworthy and ungodly, because they aren't producing a big brood.

Fertility issues can be difficult for any woman.  I cannot imagine the particular sense of failure and defeat that infertile fundie women feel. Especially when Lori and their fundie culture reinforce that sense of failure and the idea that they are somehow just not godly enough.

 

 

[Hisey]

2 hours ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Have you all noticed that Lori is now routinely adding this to her decree that women are to bear children -- "if they are able" (bolding mine)

Methinks that someone has been reading here (Hi Ken!!) or Lori has been told that there are many women who struggle with fertility (possibly even her daughter).

Maybe someone told Lori that her constant haranguing and harping on women having children is insulting and degrading to all those who can't. That she has for years been making these women feel like failures, unworthy and ungodly, because they aren't producing a big brood.

Fertility issues can be difficult for any woman.  I cannot imagine the particular sense of failure and defeat that infertile fundie women feel. Especially when Lori and their fundie culture reinforce that sense of failure and the idea that they are somehow just not godly enough.

 

 

My husband is infertile and while I never felt like a failure or defeated, I thought that others saw me that way. It was actually very frustrating, since women like Lori would assume I was infertile and would tell me to  "relax" or something. Remember, roughly 40% of all infertility problems are male factor.

[AlwaysDiscerning]

There are 2 disagreeing comments on fb that are good right now. I can't capture them now if someone else can before they are gone.

[AlwaysDiscerning]

I have some time now. Here are the comments:

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 I hardly ever (read: never) comment on random blog posts that come across my feed on Facebook. I saw this post come up because someone I respect very much commented on it in absolutely the loving and kind way in which I would expect of her. In any event, surprised that someone would twist Bible verses to indicate that a woman could not biblically choose to stay at home, I read the article. I completely disagree with the man who indicated that a woman has to work according to the Bible. However, as a working wife and mother myself, I also completely disagree with an article that does nothing more than what the article's author allegedly attempts to combat, which is construing Bible verses to indicate something that simply is not biblical. It is not necessary to defend your position as a stay at home mother by saying things like "women who work leave their children with strangers." To take that to its logical conclusion, anytime a mother went anywhere, including Bible study, or sent their child to school, or put their child in the care of another individual besides themselves or their husband or a well known family member, they too would be sinners. (This of course ignores the fact that many people who molest children are actually family members). I also really like how the author defined that as "daycare" to be sure she was clear that this is the only place where strangers could be found. I mean, goodness, what if you don't know the person at the church nursery on Sunday? And frankly, that is only one example of how the author of this blog has made assumptions that simply do not exist in the Bible verses that she has quoted. Again, to be clear, I am fully supportive of a woman who decides with her husband after biblical reflection that it is best for their family that she be at home. I am not, however, supportive of using assumptions that don't exist in God's Word to criticize the almost 60 percent of women in the US who participate in the work force for all kinds of reasons that might be both biblically and situationally appropriate. Also, my job doesn't mean I don't keep my home or follow any of the other biblical tenets espoused in these verses. So, if you are a working wife/momma trying to do the best you can and you have come across this blog to find something less than supportive, I am commenting here to let you know I support you both as a fellow mom and as a sister with you in Christ. As for anyone who cares to say hurtful things to or about another mother and wife, I will happily stand before my Maker one day with my history as a working mom and wife. What will you say to Jesus about how you treated other women?

 

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I find this entire argument on both sides to be very disturbing. Woman are supposed to be "helpers" to their husbands. If a husband needs you at home full time, then that is a decision you make with your husband and it's nobody's business but yours. If your husband would like for you to work because that is what's best for the family, then do it! Stop looking down on each other for the decisions you make about your family and what you do with your time. Do you think that for one second I regret leaving my children at a Christian daycare for 6 hours a day so I can serve the elderly, wash their hair, trim their nails, make them feel better? I am not going to sit back and allow someone to say that I am not raising my children or being responsible for their morals and values because I leave them for a short period everyday. If I can't leave them for that long for fear they will go down a dark path, then I'm not doing a very good job teaching them. Stop judging, your only causing division amongst mothers who should be supporting each other!

 

[Koala]

Today's post is yet another attempt by Lori to rewrite something she watched/read.  Last month it was a Hallmark movie, this month it's an article posted on a site called Boredom Therapy (an interesting choice for a mentor who encourages women not to waste time on the internet).  One might suggest that Lori's time would be better spent volunteering at an animal shelter or serving breakfast at a soup kitchen, but then we wouldn't have the masterpiece that is this post, so there's that.

I won't bore you with the details.  It's pretty simple.  A pretend couple got pretend divorced. Lori didn't like that the husband was the bad guy and the wife was well rid of him, so she rewrote it to put the wife in her rightful position- mean spirited bitch, who refused to put out.

But like I said, I won't bore you with the details.  I am just here to point out the contradictions.

Lori:

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Since I mentor women, I will tell them how she could have fulfilled what her husband wanted. 

For verification that Lori only mentors women, please see ALL of yesterday's post, which was dedicated to correcting one of her many male readers.

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First of all, never hide things from her husband. There shouldn’t be secrets about actions taken. 

What Lori refers to as "secrets" was actually more of a surprise.  A real example of a secret would be something like this:

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Ken told me I could stay home after I had my second baby. I was a full-time school teacher. I wanted to stay home with Alyssa so badly that I put a hole in my diaphragm and we conceived Ryan! 

Now that's a secret!

Lori:

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Instead of eating quickly, watching soaps, and falling asleep, she should have slowly enjoyed the meal with him and then taken him into the bedroom to reward him with what men love most.

OR, she could have could have spent the day watching soap operas with her 5 year old daughter (like Lori did).  Once that was done, she could have made a Big Salad for dinner and let her husband cook for himself (like Lori did).  After dinner, she could have even offered him a reward (how gross is it that she refers to sex as a "reward?).  The reward?  Oh, that's easy!  She could have offered him 10 minutes and some lube (like Lori did).

Lori: 

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What can we take away from this? Husbands love and need sex.

Yes, that's pretty much all we can glean from any story concerning men!  If there's a divorce, it's because they NEED sex!  What was it Lori said?

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This is all most husbands want...a naked wife who smiles a lot.