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    • Curious

      Guest Speaker 1.26.17 @ 8pm eastern   01/22/2017

      I am pleased to announce that we have are going to have a Q&A with an ex-evangelical on Thurs, January 26, 2017 @ 8pm.  The Q&A will last for approximately 1 hour.  I will be setting up a subforum for guest speakers as I hope to be able to get some other folks come talk to us. Our guest on Thurs will be Chris Stroop.  Here is his bio: Christopher Stroop grew up a rank-and-file member of the Christian Right in an Evangelical enclave community, Stroop's childhood social milieu consisting mostly of family and people associated with church and/or Christian school. From about the age of 16, Stroop found himself dealing with an increasingly acute crisis of faith that was not addressed properly by the people he talked to about it, and he was subjected to spiritual abuse. Stroop nevertheless went on to earn a BA in history and German from Ball State University (summa cum laude) in 2003, and then a Ph.D. in modern Russian History and Interdisciplinary Studies in the Humanities from Stanford in 2012. Subsequently, Stroop spent three academic years teaching in the School of Public Policy at the Russian Presidential Academy of National Economy and Public Administration in Moscow, where he kind of sort of almost got in trouble for "teaching Pussy Riot lyrics." Currently, Stroop teaches nineteenth-century European history and Russian Studies classes as a Provost's Postdoctoral Scholar at the University of South Florida and, as a freelance writer and public speaker, speaks out against the abuses of conservative Christianity in general and the the white Evangelical subculture he comes from in particular. You can find many of his writings in this vein on Religion Dispatches. If you would like to support this work financially, please click here (for monthly support) or here (to leave a one-time gift). Stroop's more academic writings can mostly be found here, and you can follow him on Twitter - @C_Stroop.   We are going to use the Q&A forum format.  I will be setting up a special forum just for Chris.  I will open the forum about 15 minutes before the Q&A starts so you can start asking your questions.   We have a few rules.  Failure to follow these rules will get you temporarily placed in the Prayer Closet so we can preview your posts.  If you get put in the PC during the Q&A you will be released once it's over, but lets just follow the few simple rules so none of that is necessary. Rules for Q&A: 1. Be polite.  This is not an event meant for snark.  Chris is taking time out of his busy schedule to talk to us.  He is an expert in the things we discuss here, so let's give him respect, please. 2. One question per post.   Please don't bog him down with a bunch of questions in one post.  We are using the Q&A format so he can easily answer questions.  Putting a ton of questions in one post defeats the purpose.   You can continue discussion on the thread as he answers and ask another question in the same thread if you have one after he answers. 3. Please try to keep thread drift to a minimum during the Q&A.  After it's over, if you want to continue discussion on the topics  and they drift, that's fine. 4.  Be polite! These rules are subject to change as I and the helpmeets think over possible loopholes (cause there is always one person that has to push boundaries)
choralcrusader8613

Tickling the Ivories - Jinger and Jeremy Vuolo

541 posts in this topic

RE: birth control failures..

There are different types of tubals and vasectomies. They can loop the tubes and clamp them (more room for failure), cut/burn and what I had, the Falope ring, which takes loops of the tubes and cuts off the blood supply so the tubes die off and leave a large gap. Most vasectomies are the cut/burn unless there's a possibility that the guy might want a reversal.

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3 hours ago, Incognito22 said:

I went into the urgent care clinic once.  I knew I had a UTI.  Let me pee in the cup give me antibiotics and then send me on my way.  The NP was persistent in  asking if I could be pregnant.  Finally I was like, " I haven't had sex in a year."  I was in grad school and couldn't afford any unnecessary tests.  I look up and she's writing it in BOLD on my chart!!!   I was mortified.  I think I even said you don't have to write that down... I had flashes of the Seinfeld episode where Elaine had stuff written in her chart and wanted it changed and got into all sorts of problems and basically on the no fly sheet for Dr offices.  I kept my mouth shut after that.

My friend was a 37 year old virgin for religious reasons. They didn't believe her but finally wrote "virgin" in red pen on her chart at the gyno. 

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1 hour ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

My friend was a 37 year old virgin for religious reasons. They didn't believe her but finally wrote "virgin" in red pen on her chart at the gyno. 

Not to diss anyone's personal beliefs but, in today's world, who would lie about that?!

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6 hours ago, Kayleigh83 said:

Not to diss anyone's personal beliefs but, in today's world, who would lie about that?!

Well Andy from "40 Year Old Virgin" did for 2/3rds of the movie, but then again, that was fiction, so who knows . . . I could imagine people lying, or trying to at least change the subject, not because of embarrassment but because they'd like to avoid the unnecessary sexual advice and/or potential hook ups the person being told might try to provide ;)

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7 hours ago, Kayleigh83 said:

Not to diss anyone's personal beliefs but, in today's world, who would lie about that?!

Quite a few! 

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Yeah, I know that coming in with abdominal pain would have especially made them wonder if pregnancy was the cause. When they ruled that out, I did get asked a bajillion times if it was just my period. Like I don't know the difference between cramps and "the flu" Which is what I thought I had.



I actually didn't care of they gave the pregnancy test. You want to rule out an impossibility, fine. Probably quicker than arguing with you be then we can get to the necessary tests. I didn't really see it as that big a deal.

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18 hours ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

Sorry, it won't let me get rid of the quote box.

I strongly disagree-- on the contrary, I see many successful people who have had many privileges and not many hardships. More than the opposite I'd say. And on the other hand, there are many more people who undergo trauma, poverty and abuse who continue to suffer from PTSD or experience further, exacerbated, relentless poverty, trauma and abuse as a result than there are people who are made "better" because of it. Suffering is much likelier to beget more suffering than the opposite. I think thinking of poverty and abuse as leading to additional strength and an ultimately positive outcome 1) exonerates the unjust system or person/people who caused the problems to begin with (after all, if one's abuse ultimately makes them "strong," then is the abuse really even bad? Do we need to change it?), and 2) is just a repeat of the patently false "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" narrative that only serves to keep marginalized people down. The few examples of people who are able to find success after abuse, trauma or poverty likely did so because they either had other privileges that some in their position didn't have or they were a rare exception due to high IQ or lucky circumstances. 

When I say 'serious contribution to mankind' I'm talking about people who brought about major change - politically, major innovations, changing corrupt systems,  etc - not just "being successful"   or "living a comfortable life" ...

And saying that *I* at least am in any way excusing those who abuse or exonerating injustice is just untrue.    I don't claim to speak for anyone but me.        

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On 1/5/2017 at 8:44 PM, Bad Wolf said:

My friend's son went in for a routine procedure and was asked if he was pregnant now or had ever been pregnant?????

A man who transitioned from female could be pregnant (if no  bottom surgery and pregnancy-friendly hormone cocktail or no added hormones).

 

I would rather be asked if I were preggo than if I were trans.

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I get pretty frequent UTI's, and every time I go to the doctor they ask me my symptoms, I pee in a cup, they come back and say "you are not pregnant and you have a UTI", which I always already know both of. I don't think they ever even ask if I'm pregnant, they just do the test anyway.

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On 1/5/2017 at 8:25 PM, kinphilly said:

Late to the party here, and this may all be old news but: 

1.  the Twelve Days of Christmas was the Carol Sing-a-long at Longwood Gardens.   That is just the speed the amazingly talented organist plays that one (probably to fit in more songs in his alloted 30 minutes)

2.  The theater is almost certainly Sight and Sound in Lancaster ( http://blog.cmworks.com/recent-sight-and-sound-theatre-installation-incorporates-the-latest-of-american-technology/   ) - it is definitely not the interior of the Academy of Music or the Kimmel Center in Philly.  

Thanks for correcting me!  I grew up around Philly and have been to the Academy of Music about a dozen times. I have only been to the Sight and Sound Theater once about 10 years ago despite living in the same county as it for most of the last three years. 

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22 hours ago, December said:

Thank you for posting this, because I was thinking of the scene, too! :D

Yep. It seems awkward to have to take one sometimes, especially if you haven't been sexually active for a while. But it's not personal. Sort of like how when you go to an ER or urgent care place, they'll inevitably ask you in private if you're in any sort of danger, being threatened or controlled by someone, etc.

Nobody ever asked me any of that (and they had good reason to a couple times)...is this a recent thing that they do?

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19 hours ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

Sorry, it won't let me get rid of the quote box.

I strongly disagree-- on the contrary, I see many successful people who have had many privileges and not many hardships. More than the opposite I'd say. And on the other hand, there are many more people who undergo trauma, poverty and abuse who continue to suffer from PTSD or experience further, exacerbated, relentless poverty, trauma and abuse as a result than there are people who are made "better" because of it. Suffering is much likelier to beget more suffering than the opposite. I think thinking of poverty and abuse as leading to additional strength and an ultimately positive outcome 1) exonerates the unjust system or person/people who caused the problems to begin with (after all, if one's abuse ultimately makes them "strong," then is the abuse really even bad? Do we need to change it?), and 2) is just a repeat of the patently false "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" narrative that only serves to keep marginalized people down. The few examples of people who are able to find success after abuse, trauma or poverty likely did so because they either had other privileges that some in their position didn't have or they were a rare exception due to high IQ or lucky circumstances. 

As someone who has been abused (physically - beat with a board as well as a thick strap, emotionally - told I'd never amount to anything, sexually - groped by the uncle that I lived with as a kid)and then diagnosed with PTSD as an adult (from the abuse, being alone with my husband when he died suddenly, and a few other issues) , I can say that I was not encouraged as a kid.   I was the daughter of a single mother who lived on welfare and then sent to live with an emotionally abusive relative and her physically and sexually abusive husband.  

For me it was a matter of I could believe what I was told - that I was worthless and incorrigible (adjective 1.(of a person or their tendencies) not able to be corrected, improved, or reformed.  "she's an incorrigible flirt"synonyms:inveterate, habitual, confirmed, hardened, dyed-in-the-wool, incurable, chronic, irredeemable, hopeless, beyond hope; ) or I could 'show them'.    

A brother who continued to live with our mother has never worked a legal day in his 60+ years.   (Worked 'under the table, and worked some scams) 

The kids in the relative's house have addiction issues (pills, drugs, alcohol - ok so I have a food addiction)  and their kids are pretty well screwed up. 

But I am proud to say that I did pretty well.    I overcame poverty.   I worked hard and got a decent job.    I retired before I was 58.    I live comfortably.   

I can't say that my IQ is all that high (just above average)  And I can't say I've been lucky - other than that I overcame issues.  But it took a lot of work and some intense therapy.   

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, kinphilly said:

When I say 'serious contribution to mankind' I'm talking about people who brought about major change - politically, major innovations, changing corrupt systems,  etc - not just "being successful"   or "living a comfortable life" ...

And saying that *I* at least am in any way excusing those who abuse or exonerating injustice is just untrue.    I don't claim to speak for anyone but me.        

I'm saying that that philosophy excuses it. It's a common one. I just think it's flawed. It's not personal.

I still think that while a few exceptional folks may be able to get beyond their abuse/trauma/poverty to create something extraordinary, there are plenty of great artists, politicians, etc., who haven't. I don't think it's a necessity. And the former likely had some sort of boost-- exceptional talent or IQ, a mentor, education, access of some kind. And even *if* they did do something great, it doesn't mean that's related to their own abuse or trauma or wouldn't have happened otherwise. The vast majority of people are only harmed and hindered by extreme negative circumstances, not helped, and many of them die from suicide, addiction or poor health, or become part of the legal system, before they ever have the chance to see what they could have done. MLK is exceptional, for example, because out of the millions who experienced racism, he was able to fight against it due to smarts and circumstances. The vast majority of people with the same experiences lost their lives to work, violence, poverty or drudgery. And he was still jailed and killed in the end. So do we focus on his singular greatness, or on the system that shouldn't have required it in the first place and killed countless others who could have been great? I guess there's room for both, but I tend to look at the latter. 

23 minutes ago, MoonFace said:

As someone who has been abused (physically - beat with a board as well as a thick strap, emotionally - told I'd never amount to anything, sexually - groped by the uncle that I lived with as a kid)and then diagnosed with PTSD as an adult (from the abuse, being alone with my husband when he died suddenly, and a few other issues) , I can say that I was not encouraged as a kid.   I was the daughter of a single mother who lived on welfare and then sent to live with an emotionally abusive relative and her physically and sexually abusive husband.  

A brother who continued to live with our mother has never worked a legal day in his 60+ years.   (Worked 'under the table, and worked some scams) 

The kids in the relative's house have addiction issues (pills, drugs, alcohol - ok so I have a food addiction)  and their kids are pretty well screwed up. 

But I am proud to say that I did pretty well.    I overcame poverty.   I worked hard and got a decent job.    I retired before I was 58.    I live comfortably.   

I can't say that my IQ is all that high (just above average)  And I can't say I've been lucky - other than that I overcame issues.  But it took a lot of work and some intense therapy.   

Thanks for your story. Most of my family suffers from addictions, etc, as well. I was lucky enough to get a good education and have the time and energy to focus on dealing with my shit. Not everybody does and for that I'm grateful.

It took me a lot of therapy as well-- and that alone is a major privilege or impossibility for many people. If you're working three minimum wage jobs while raising kids on no or bad insurance, therapy is going to be scarce or impossible. I'm also grateful for that, don't know where I'd be without it. Probably a lot worse off, that's for sure. 

Edited by SweetFellowshipper
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3 hours ago, goldengrove said:

Nobody ever asked me any of that (and they had good reason to a couple times)...is this a recent thing that they do?

 

Not sure, but it wouldn't surprise me. It's happened every time I've gone or taken someone to an ER in the last ~5 years at least.

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Posted (edited)

17 minutes ago, December said:

Not sure, but it wouldn't surprise me. It's happened every time I've gone or taken someone to an ER in the last ~5 years at least.

Where I live it's asked every time you go into the ER and anytime you go into the doctor's office, at least with my insurance. Everyone is asked about domestic and sexual violence, regardless of gender or demographic, even in routine check-ups. It's a little weird to be asked "any domestic violence at home?" when I'm in for the flu, but hey, whatever gets help for people.

Edited by SweetFellowshipper
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3 hours ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

@MoonFace and at @SweetFellowshipper I just want to say that I honor your stories. 

Thank you.  Sweet of you to say so.    

I just feel blessed.    I have no idea where the will to do better came from - but I am grateful.    

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40 minutes ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

Where I live it's asked every time you go into the ER and anytime you go into the doctor's office, at least with my insurance. Everyone is asked about domestic and sexual violence, regardless of gender or demographic, even in routine check-ups. It's a little weird to be asked "any domestic violence at home?" when I'm in for the flu, but hey, whatever gets help for people.

They do here too. When I have my kids in they also ask if any guns are in the house (if yes are they secured), and about carseat use. They then ask if you would like any additional information on any of those three subjects. 

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2 hours ago, December said:

Not sure, but it wouldn't surprise me. It's happened every time I've gone or taken someone to an ER in the last ~5 years at least.

At my first prenatal visit, my doctor asked me if I were safe at home.  I had no idea what she was getting at, so I assured her that, yes, we had a smoke detector in every room. She must have thought I was dumber than a box of rocks!

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On 06/01/2017 at 0:27 PM, SassyPants said:

I kid you not, I once had a patient in the nicu with a positive tox screen,and her mother claimed that she was walking down the street and a man ran by and injected her in the hip with a needle. 

What the heck is with that??  I've heard the same story in emergency from a couple of people.  One someone walking down the street, one from someone at a party she was walking through and knew no-one at. And the number of people who will insist they didn't buy drugs but someone gave them something so they took it to be polite and it wasn't drugs!! But it reminds them of LSD.  Not that they've ever done it or anything.

I've delivered a baby from a woman who'd never had sex and couldn't possibly be pregnant despite the baby trying to emerge from her vagina.  I've found more than one woman who'd "never had sex (with a man)" found to be pregnant in emergency and completely lost count of the number who haven't had sex in the past 12 months. I do feel bad whenever someone's offended by it and like I said I've been in the situation as a patient, but it's so hard on the other side.

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2 hours ago, VanillaBean said:

At my first prenatal visit, my doctor asked me if I were safe at home.  I had no idea what she was getting at, so I assured her that, yes, we had a smoke detector in every room. She must have thought I was dumber than a box of rocks!

This is cute and made me LOL it's like Miss Congeniality "Describe your ideal date" question. It happens

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9 hours ago, goldengrove said:

Nobody ever asked me any of that (and they had good reason to a couple times)...is this a recent thing that they do?

I get asked at every medical visit. BUT many of the times I've been asked my husband is sitting right next to me which I feel defeats the purpose. If he was abusive, chances are I wouldn't say so in front of him...

7-8 years ago (when I was in an abusive relationship, unfortunately) they never asked, so this must be a new thing.

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I have a friend who swore up and down that she did not have sex, there was no possible way she was pregnant. When they found out she was, they treated her like crap. Turns out she had gotten drunk at a friend's house.  Someone she considered a safe person who she had known for years. She passed out and he raped her. She had no idea until that day in the ER.

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When I retired 10 years ago, we did not ask about domestic violence or gun ownership. But now at all of my DIL OB appts, they ask her, every single time.

Also, we had a designation we used on medical records called a social primip. That was a woman who presented as a first pregnancy, but in truth, she had had a previous pregnancy that had ended for whatever reason, in whatever way, and she didn't want anyone to know about it except the medical professionals. If we saw that on a medical record, we knew not to refer to that pregnancy in front of anyone else in the room.

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15 minutes ago, blackkatya said:

I get asked at every medical visit. BUT many of the times I've been asked my husband is sitting right next to me which I feel defeats the purpose. If he was abusive, chances are I wouldn't say so in front of him...

7-8 years ago (when I was in an abusive relationship, unfortunately) they never asked, so this must be a new thing.

My gyno has asked me those type of questions for years. However, I didn't get checked for pregnancy when I had my appendix out in 2008 despite the fact my lady parts were still fully functional, not even peri-menopausal. Had I been pregnant and lost the fetus during the operation, that's a lawsuit waiting to happen. I mean, yeah, I was on the older end of my childbearing years, but women at that age have kids. Hell, my SIL did! 

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