The Boyer Sisters, Part 3

[laPapessaGiovanna]

3 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

Amen to this. Now, of course European history is important and fascinating, but Gabe, why not take a look at the history of Dynastic China (modern China's pretty cool too)? Or India during the Mughal period? Or the Mali and Songhai Empires that ruled large swaths of Africa? Or the Ottoman Empire? Or the history of the Philippines? The world's a big, diverse, and awesome place, and you'll also come to understand European history much better once you zoom out a bit or look at what was going on in the world beyond Europe in a given time period. For example, understanding the history of the early days of the Raj in India made it a lot easier for me to understand the economic factors that influenced the American Civil War (whatever, South, we can just get our cotton from India) and the Victorian era in general. Understanding the history of the Ottoman Empire made it a lot easier for me to contextualize how the Balkans turned out how they did.

This  is so true. As a Southern European I do consider every Mediterranean country's history as my own country's history because we are so inextricably tied to each other that it just wouldn't make sense otherwise. And then there's Venice, my region's capital, ignoring Middle Eastern and Asian cultures all the way from here to China would make it impossible to understand Venetian culture and art. Same for Verona, funny anecdote: the most famous "Signore" of Verona was Can Francesco della Scala known as Cangrande I, his name in Italian sounds really ridiculous because it means "big dog", not what he meant with it though. At the time of Cangrande I, Venice was trading with China through the way opened by Matteo, Nicolò and Marco Polo who met and made friends with Kublai Khan at the time Mongol ruler of China (Genghis Khan nephew). So Cangrande actually meant "Great Khan".

[Hummingbird]

I'm late in replying on Zinn's works. I'm nearly 60 years old. Those I know in their 70s, 80's, and 90's introduced me to Zinn, not because he was caustic, but because he documented history as they remembered it. 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

@Gabe you may find interesting discussions on racial matters here on FJ with the words and experiences of our POCs member

www.freejinger.org/blogs/entry/1679-all-lives-matter/

ETA unfortunately the last link doesn't work, it is a blog post by a member that said the same thing you did, I think you will find the discussion in the comments section very interesting. 

 

[choralcrusader8613]

@laPapessaGiovanna I fixed that last link so it's clickable.

[Palimpsest]

10 hours ago, Destiny said:

Well, like Al, he's willing to unmask if we will too! :-P

Dear doG, that was funny!

[Lurky]

Got to say, "Gabe" may not know much about the politics of history, or even basic concepts like bias in history, but this is some A1 trolling, right here.  Congratulations!

[formergothardite]

I doubt he actually views this as trolling. I get the impression that he lives in a world where reading 1960's encyclopedias makes you very clever and it was probably a surprise that it didn't impress anyone. He probably thinks he is being very witty by not confirming he is the real Gabe. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

11 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I doubt he actually views this as trolling. I get the impression that he lives in a world where reading 1960's encyclopedias makes you very clever and it was probably a surprise that it didn't impress anyone. He probably thinks he is being very witty by not confirming he is the real Gabe. 

And he's young. As a teen, I thought I knew everything. As I've aged, I've realized how little I actually know with each passing year. 

[DancingPhalanges]

I'm not a Degreed Encyclopedia Reader because I have never read through any era of encyclopedias. I did read all of Nancy Drew and Hardy Boys which does not help me figure out if Gabe is THE Gabe. 

I digress and need more coffee. 

[Pianokeeper]

50 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

And he's young. As a teen, I thought I knew everything. As I've aged, I've realized how little I actually know with each passing year. 

This is one thing that always strikes me reading his posts. They remind me so much of the way college students used to post online -- the phrasing, misjudged winky faces, the whole lot. Then it suddenly hit me recently that presumably in Boyerland, college age counts as grown -- and so here we have a married man presenting himself, well, like a college kid.

[For a fun time, look up developmental neuroscience studies about how long it takes human brains to really "grow up."]

I actually gasped at his statement that white males played the most important/formative roles in history (and who doesn't love the irony that he believes he is focusing on the more forgotten elements of society... bless). 

But I weirdly kinda like him. Hear that, Gabe? I don't think he's malicious at all, just has a lot of learning to come. He and Brigid strike me as the kind of people who will indeed continue to grow and learn. I hope so, anyway. I'm not saying "become less conservative Christians" even (why should they?) but just gain a greater perspective outside their own anthills and satellite colonies. 

[Edited to add that whether or not Gabe is The Gabe is not my primary interest, since I think the sisters Boyer would have said something if an imposter were here, but I do think he's the real deal... probably basking a bit in minicelebrity]

[DancingPhalanges]

11 hours ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

@Gabe you may find interesting discussions on racial matters here on FJ with the words and experiences of our POCs member

www.freejinger.org/blogs/entry/1679-all-lives-matter/

ETA unfortunately the last link doesn't work, it is a blog post by a member that said the same thing you did, I think you will find the discussion in the comments section very interesting. 

 

I hope Gabe reads these links. I fell asleep reading them last night, some of the posts made me tearful. Beautifully expressed thoughts and posts. I wander around FJ and have not found these, thank you. 

[DaisyD]

18 hours ago, HereticHick said:

Blood and Thunder: The Epic Story of Kit Carson and the Conquest of the American West, by Hampton Sides.  

--this book is extremely entertaining and is a great introduction to the complexity of Anglo-Hispanic-Native relations in the Southwest as well.

I might have to check this one out. One of the interesting things about growing up in a liberal island in the Southwest was that the awfulness of people like Kit Carson was not shown in the history books, but still explained by our teachers. 

 

15 hours ago, ladyamylynn said:

What makes European history a more valid topic of study than, say, Chinese history? China is arguably as important if not more, on a global stage than Europe. Indian? Japanese? Gabe's pathetically narrow world view would be funny if it wasn't so sad. 

He likes their clothes better...

I always thought I was "color blind" until I met the wife of a black friend I'd made in the Navy. I was at their house and when a white woman walked in, I was thoroughly embarrassed by the amount of shock I felt. I have 0 issue with interracial marriage. I had no reason to be surprised, but there I was, speechless. It just hadn't occurred to me. Did I think differently of either of them? Of course not. Luckily, he laughed his ass off at the shade of red I turned and we moved on (I suspect this was the effect he was going for. He had quite a sense of humor). I'm just saying that "color blind" is a nice sentiment, but it's not reality.

[Nina]

I think your aspirations are great Gabe. But I am a bit biased since I study history at university level. I do not know just how far back you want to take it, but if you go farther than Neuzeit/Recent History I would strongly recommend to look at what archeologists have to say about things as well. Historians have a tendency to assume all wich is not written down or mentioned in a book/text is not real.  They are adamant something does not exist despite numerous example findings. This one is especially annoying. 

This is especially crucial if you are dealing with the romans and their occupied territories and the lands at the border. Roman reminds are present in moor findings in Scandinavia , Denmark and Northern germany. (Eysbøl, Illerup etc)

Also I think it is good to keep in mind that the romans had multiple Deities wich were very open to new deities. The only faith wich was being eyed with suspicion and hostility was Judaism and Christianity. Both are monotheistic in nature. So this God would not be able to team play. Today we see all too easily how 3 religions try to assert their God as the one true One. The romans knew this could be problematic. So the persecution of christians and Jews is not something that could not be understood. Academically - trying to take an unbiased outsiders view. It was horrible but it made sense to them. We can not like it, strongly go up against it but what happened is always to be seen from the time it occurred in if we want to analyze it ans the realm it took place in. 

At the moment I am preparing a 4 week Instruction course for 8th grade about The (Heavy)Industrial  History of Germany. My Husband and his father both volunteered to tell about their time in the mines. Special emphasis is put on the strikes and how they affect mining even today.

In fact, mining in germany will be something wich in a few years  (2018) when the last pit closes down will live on in Memory, Tales and Museums only.

I strongly feel that it is part of my duty to be a Keeper of the Knowledge for this I also had the privilege to go down there myself on a guided tour. I was very very impressed. .

I am one of the very last "Zechenkinder" / Child of the Mines.

I saw how masculine, strong men cried while they went to their last shift or looked on as the mining towers were taken down.

I tried to make sure to dismantle misconceptions about the "Heroic Miners" wich is the picture painted by many a town here. There was Camradrie, there had to be, but at the moment the miners are  more like Football Fans, each party rooted for their pit and despised the others. Now with only two mines open the hostility is played out at each one.  Also, every miner is very watchful of his tools, thieves are plenty. My BIL called me once and asked me if I could bring him new clothes because his good ones were stolen and he did not want to wear the dirty ones while driving home on public transport. It is all a matter of perspective. 

I willI  also visit numerous museums with the class. I think museums, Archives and especially excavations are something that really gets children interested. And today children are hard to engage. 

19 hours ago, amandaaries said:

@Gabe, if you are truly trying to learn, then I can't let it be said that I didn't try to help that effort.  Surely you understand how dominant narratives work, as a budding historian (though it is exceedingly distressing to notice how quickly you dismiss Zinn, who was seeking to rectify that issue in our textbooks). Here is another example to consider.

In WWII, the Japanese armies took women from other nations and forced them to work as sex slaves, or "comfort women."  Many of those women were from Korea.  Many of those women are now dead or near to the end of their lives, due to age. Now that the countries are on somewhat better terms and the war is over, these surviving women spent years wanting apologies.  Koreans were extremely upset about this issue, with good reason, as I'm sure we can all agree.  Not too long ago,as in, within this century,  Japanese textbooks still had a tendency to omit  everything about the comfort women issue. The result was that some young Japanese people had no idea why Koreans were so upset with them.  It took decades for advocates to get this huge issue addressed and  for the countries to reconcile and be able to move forward from this, due in large part to whitewashed textbooks.

Surely you can see some parallels between those issues in their textbooks and the omission of people of color and women from many Western history books, yes?

Also, King Leopold's Ghost, by Adam Hochschild, should really be on your reading list. It's a perfect illustration of what gets lost when focusing on European history through only the narratives of those ensconced in the dominant culture. 

I second this. Narrative is powerful. Get as many Sources as possible. 

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

I doubt he actually views this as trolling.

It is also not successful trolling if it elicits pity instead of annoyance.

 

33 minutes ago, Nina said:

Today we see all too easily how 3 religions try to assert their God as the one true One.

Actually, no.  Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all worship the same God but differently.  

If you believe that these three religions all have different Gods you are a super special Evangelical Christian or very confused.

 

[formergothardite]

I have a question for @Gabe that is not about his knowledge(or lack of it) of history, but about himself. Nina basically called your wife a heartless bitch who purposely hurt her sister, yet you didn't pop in to defend her. You joined when Nina criticized the Boyer parents to defend them. Why is that? I would think that you would have stood up for your wife, but it wasn't until the parents were criticized that you decided to say something. 

And I still have never figured out why @Nina is so sure Brigid caused problems by rubbing her marriage in the face of Jessica. 

[catlady]

2 hours ago, DancingPhalanges said:

I'm not a Degreed Encyclopedia Reader because I have never read through any era of encyclopedias. I did read all of Nancy Drew and Hardy Boys which does not help me figure out if Gabe is THE Gabe. 

I digress and need more coffee. 

My new goal in life is to be a Degreed Encyclopedia Reader!!!1! 

 

[Lurky]

3 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I doubt he actually views this as trolling. I get the impression that he lives in a world where reading 1960's encyclopedias makes you very clever and it was probably a surprise that it didn't impress anyone. He probably thinks he is being very witty by not confirming he is the real Gabe. 

But this is assuming it's Really Gabe...  I guess it's easier for me to assume it's someone really enjoying trolling FJ and being really good at hitting all the points that rightly make us jump (only white men really contributed to history, I've read the encylopedia, so I've unique and clever, "whitewashing isn't a thing", "I don't see colour/race is a construct thus racism isn't a thing", "whining about inequality", I'm going to write a history book etc etc) than someone really is saying all this thinking they're right, AND that someone who's still newlywed, and a committed Christian, is choosing to spend Xmas Day fighting with a bunch of strangers on the internet....  I guess it's the optimist in me!

[Palimpsest]

11 minutes ago, Lurky said:

someone really is saying all this thinking they're right, AND that someone who's still newlywed, and a committed Christian, is choosing to spend Xmas Day fighting with a bunch of strangers on the internet....  I guess it's the optimist in me!

Unfortunately these things are all consistent with the behaviors of the juvenile male Fundamentalist in the wild.  I say this from too many years  of experience as a Fundie twitcher.

I still lean towards this being the real Gabe.  It must be the pessimist in me.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I don't know if he's the real Gabe but either way, he's a big reason as to why The Boyer Sisters made it to three threads now. Well he and that lovely Snarky Sally.

[Pianokeeper]

2 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Unfortunately these things are all consistent with the behaviors of the juvenile male Fundamentalist in the wild.  I say this from too many years  of experience as a Fundie twitcher.

I still lean towards this being the real Gabe.  It must be the pessimist in me.

It must be... the Pessalimpsessist in you?

[ViolaSebastian]

8 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I don't know if he's the real Gabe but either way, he's a big reason as to why The Boyer Sisters made it to three threads now. Well he and that lovely Snarky Sally.

No kidding, we can only talk so much about poorly-fitting cardigans. 

[ladyamylynn]

This thread has everything. Dowdy cardigans, kilts, Fundie trolls, Biblical literalism, the KKK, a well-worn set of 1966 World Book Encyclopedias.

[Palimpsest]

35 minutes ago, Pianokeeper said:

It must be... the Pessalimpsessist in you?

Oouuchhh!!!!

I wonder whether Gabe will continue to grace us with his presence.

 

[nickelodeon]

@formergotharditeI got the impression that Gabe was less piqued about people talking shit about his wife and her family than about them having a chuckle at his authentic Scotch fannypack...

[Palimpsest]

4 minutes ago, nickelodeon said:

his authentic Scotch fannypack...

That wondrous yeti pelt codpiece.

No, he seemed to take that nasty crack of mine in good part.  I think he wanted to correct us on all things Scottish Highland Dress and possibly sell us some kilts.

Hey, @Gabe!  Have you opened that expensive bottle of single malt Scotch yet?  And why did you omit the sgian-dubh?  Inquiring minds ...