PA Electors to have Police Protection

[Summer60]

Facing a wave of calls, Pa. electors sounding unshakable

Quote

On Monday, they will travel to the state Capitol to cast their votes to assign Pennsylvania's 20 electoral votes to Trump and Vice President-elect Mike Pence during what has, in the past, been a ceremonial and largely unnoticed event.

Not this year.

This time around, the electors will be greeted by organized protests, urging them to assign Pennsylvania's electoral votes to anyone but Trump

Thoughts on this? Is this "fake news"? I haven't seen this anywhere else, but a family member from PA shared this.

[FakePigtails]

1 hour ago, Summer60 said:

Facing a wave of calls, Pa. electors sounding unshakable

Thoughts on this? Is this "fake news"? I haven't seen this anywhere else, but a family member from PA shared this.

Since daily city newspapers are considered reliable sources, this is almost certainly true. It doesn't surprise me either given the push to change electors' votes. I do think it's unfortunate that more electors aren't considering not voting for Trump given the massive problems that have come up (everything from his temperament to the Russian hacking).

Here's some info on the issues of fake news and source reliability that will help you sort out what's reliable and what's not when you see things on facebook:

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/classes/2015/08/news_media_literacy_class_which_newspapers_magazines_and_websites_are_reliable.html

https://docs.google.com/document/d/10eA5-mCZLSS4MQY5QGb5ewC3VAL6pLkT53V_81ZyitM/preview

http://d279m997dpfwgl.cloudfront.net/wp/2016/11/Resource-False-Misleading-Clickbait-y-and-Satirical-“News”-Sources-1.pdf

[formergothardite]

35 minutes ago, FakePigtails said:

I do think it's unfortunate that more electors aren't considering not voting for Trump given the massive problems that have come up (everything from his temperament to the Russian hacking).

No one should threaten their lives, but I do wish more would consider not voting for a person as terrible as Trump. It isn't even like most of the country wants him as president. 

[RoseWilder]

I saw on TV, I can't remember where, an elector saying that there are more people who are voting against Trump than are publicly admitting and that they just don't want to admit it publicly out of fear. 

But who really knows. I'm not getting my hopes up. 

[Summer60]

4 hours ago, FakePigtails said:

Since daily city newspapers are considered reliable sources, this is almost certainly true. It doesn't surprise me either given the push to change electors' votes. I do think it's unfortunate that more electors aren't considering not voting for Trump given the massive problems that have come up (everything from his temperament to the Russian hacking).

Here's some info on the issues of fake news and source reliability that will help you sort out what's reliable and what's not when you see things on facebook:

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/classes/2015/08/news_media_literacy_class_which_newspapers_magazines_and_websites_are_reliable.html

https://docs.google.com/document/d/10eA5-mCZLSS4MQY5QGb5ewC3VAL6pLkT53V_81ZyitM/preview

http://d279m997dpfwgl.cloudfront.net/wp/2016/11/Resource-False-Misleading-Clickbait-y-and-Satirical-“News”-Sources-1.pdf

I was half kidding about the fake news...but I did find it interesting that I wasn't seeing it elsewhere.

I don't think electors should have their lives threatened. I think that is more unfortunate than the electors opting to be faithless elector.

[Summer60]

1 hour ago, RoseWilder said:

I saw on TV, I can't remember where, an elector saying that there are more people who are voting against Trump than are publicly admitting and that they just don't want to admit it publicly out of fear. 

But who really knows. I'm not getting my hopes up. 

What are you hoping would happen as a result of this though?

[RoseWilder]

2 minutes ago, Summer60 said:

What are you hoping would happen as a result of this though?

I want the electors to do the right thing and choose Clinton. Baring that, I want them to pick an alternative who isn't a totally incompetent sociopath. 

But, like I said, I'm not getting my hopes up. 

[Summer60]

14 minutes ago, RoseWilder said:

I'm hoping that the electors would do the right thing and choose Clinton. Baring that, I'm hoping they will pick an alternative who isn't a totally incompetent sociopath. 

I am not sure why you are HOPEFUL they will. 

I would say "crazier things have happened" but I am not quite sure that would apply in this situation. But, hey, "Rebellions are built on hope."

ETA: Just noticed you changed hope to want after I posted. Sorry

[RoseWilder]

1 minute ago, Summer60 said:

I am not sure why you are HOPEFUL they will. 

I would say "crazier things have happened" but I am not quite sure that would apply in this situation. But, hey, "Rebellions are built on hope."

I'm not hopeful. I said "I want them to do the right thing. . . " 

And what is the point of this circular argument?

[Summer60]

13 minutes ago, RoseWilder said:

I'm not hopeful. I said "I want them to do the right thing. . . " 

And what is the point of this circular argument?

You edited it prior to me replying, but before I noticed.

I am wondering what the point of the circular argument is as well. Still, I am sticking to being hopeful.

[candygirl200413]

So with this, I've read is that it's been more Trump supporters than Clinton Supporters who have been sending death threats. If a Trump elector has shown any type of hesitation that some trump supporters have sent death threats.

[SilverBeach]

14 hours ago, RoseWilder said:

I want the electors to do the right thing and choose Clinton. Baring that, I want them to pick an alternative who isn't a totally incompetent sociopath. 

That's the whole point of the EC. It was never meant to be a rubber stamp. The EC has disenfranchised me and circumvented the will of the people. Twice in 15 years. Unacceptable. It serves no purpose and should be aboloshed.

[Ali]

@Summer60 What are you trying to accomplish here? It seems like you came in here with some sort of agenda.

[Summer60]

2 hours ago, Ali said:

@Summer60 What are you trying to accomplish here? It seems like you came in here with some sort of agenda.

No agenda. I was asked to defend my choice to remain optimistic and hopeful. I respect that you don't all feel the same way and that you don't understand why I feel this way. I am willing to disengage from this conversation. I had no intent to cause any negativity. I was trying to remain positive. I guess I remember when I saw people upset that Obama won and wanting so badly to assure everyone it was going to be okay. I remember being elated Obama won and outraged that anyone wanted him to fail. I don't think it is needed to reach across the aisles and find a middle ground on all issues, but I do think it is important to hope (or want) our country to do well. That's all.

[Summer60]

4 hours ago, candygirl200413 said:

So with this, I've read is that it's been more Trump supporters than Clinton Supporters who have been sending death threats. If a Trump elector has shown any type of hesitation that some trump supporters have sent death threats.

Wow! Like I said, I haven't seen much reported about electors needing security, so I haven't seen that they had been threatened by Trump supporters at all. Very interesting!

[Summer60]

@candygirl200413 Okay, I am searching and can't find anything. Do you have a link I can share?

[formergothardite]

59 minutes ago, Summer60 said:

I respect that you don't all feel the same way and that you don't understand why I feel this way.

I for one am actually interested in what exactly makes you think he hasn't offered false hope. It would be great if there are signs he didn't and he has a plan to help America. All the signs I've seen is that he doesn't care and people will have to fight tooth and nail to make sure he doesn't hurt America. I'm optimistic that most people in America will what they can to minimize his impact, but you seem to think that Trump, on his own, will decide to do the right thing. Are there signs we are missing? Can you share? 

[Summer60]

13 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I for one am actually interested in what exactly makes you think he hasn't offered false hope. It would be great if there are signs he didn't and he has a plan to help America. All the signs I've seen is that he doesn't care and people will have to fight tooth and nail to make sure he doesn't hurt America. I'm optimistic that most people in America will what they can to minimize his impact, but you seem to think that Trump, on his own, will decide to do the right thing. Are there signs we are missing? Can you share? 

Maybe that is it. Maybe I am hopeful that America can pull together and that Trump will listen to America. I don't know...I just hope. Blind up, false hope, whatever. I hope it works out that way and everyone is pleasantly surprised. That is all. Other than that, I don't know what to say to you.

I know my ideas that he wears a stupid baseball cap to maybe possibly reach to the people and be on par may be wrong, I know that it may not be reality, but I hope it is him trying, regardless of how ill reasoned it is. I hope he says the wrong things, but not with the intent to be hurtful. I hope people are wrong. I won't go further with defending my "hope". I just won't. I don't mean to run away from a discussion or to ignore your poking at the question, but I am hopeful and refuse to give up on hope yet. I believe Americans are good and I believe America is good and I believe people are good. I want and hope that good will prevail and we will be okay. If we are not, you can shame me for being hopeful. I don't know, message me in four years, eight years, two years, whatever. Tell me how stupid I was to be optimistic and hopeful. Tell me how rural america is unahppy and suffering. Tell me how anyone is suffering more. Until that has reached that point, until people are worse off, I am going to hope and want for them to be okay.

[VixenToast]

1 hour ago, Summer60 said:

Maybe that is it. Maybe I am hopeful that America can pull together and that Trump will listen to America. I don't know...I just hope. Blind up, false hope, whatever. I hope it works out that way and everyone is pleasantly surprised. That is all. Other than that, I don't know what to say to you.

I know my ideas that he wears a stupid baseball cap to maybe possibly reach to the people and be on par may be wrong, I know that it may not be reality, but I hope it is him trying, regardless of how ill reasoned it is. I hope he says the wrong things, but not with the intent to be hurtful. I hope people are wrong. I won't go further with defending my "hope". I just won't. I don't mean to run away from a discussion or to ignore your poking at the question, but I am hopeful and refuse to give up on hope yet. I believe Americans are good and I believe America is good and I believe people are good. I want and hope that good will prevail and we will be okay. If we are not, you can shame me for being hopeful. I don't know, message me in four years, eight years, two years, whatever. Tell me how stupid I was to be optimistic and hopeful. Tell me how rural america is unahppy and suffering. Tell me how anyone is suffering more. Until that has reached that point, until people are worse off, I am going to hope and want for them to be okay.

I can respect that. 

I just hope the American people aren't going to look the other way if the shit hits the fan. I also hope that somehow everything will be okay, though I have some doubts, I choose to remain realistic.

i respect your optimism. It's your duty now to stay aware, however. 

[Ali]

2 hours ago, Summer60 said:

Maybe that is it. Maybe I am hopeful that America can pull together and that Trump will listen to America. I don't know...I just hope. Blind up, false hope, whatever. I hope it works out that way and everyone is pleasantly surprised. That is all. Other than that, I don't know what to say to you.

I know my ideas that he wears a stupid baseball cap to maybe possibly reach to the people and be on par may be wrong, I know that it may not be reality, but I hope it is him trying, regardless of how ill reasoned it is. I hope he says the wrong things, but not with the intent to be hurtful. I hope people are wrong. I won't go further with defending my "hope". I just won't. I don't mean to run away from a discussion or to ignore your poking at the question, but I am hopeful and refuse to give up on hope yet. I believe Americans are good and I believe America is good and I believe people are good. I want and hope that good will prevail and we will be okay. If we are not, you can shame me for being hopeful. I don't know, message me in four years, eight years, two years, whatever. Tell me how stupid I was to be optimistic and hopeful. Tell me how rural america is unahppy and suffering. Tell me how anyone is suffering more. Until that has reached that point, until people are worse off, I am going to hope and want for them to be okay.

You can be hopeful all you want, but what reasonable proof can you offer that it is not false hope? What actions has he made since becoming president-elect gives you hope?

 

[AlwaysExcited]

On 18.12.2016. at 6:22 AM, Summer60 said:

"Rebellions are built on hope."

 

The hope you have for Trump and hope that starts rebellions are two different things. 
The hope that starts rebellions is hope that makes people to speak up (in public or just in a private Facebook page; against powerful, well-known politicians or against their weird cousin), go out, reach out, leave their comfort zone to protest, send e-mails, make calls, to demand, ask and beg for something better. They have to push themselves. They have to deal with hate. And they will have to deal with it tomorrow and day after, and day after, for four years or more; but they keep doing it, and that is hope. 

The type of feeling you have for Trump is what we speak about when we say that "hope is fool's greatest comfort". Delusional. One that allows to cling to everyday life and do nothing because "maybe it's not that bad, maybe things will work out, maybe he has good intentions." What exactly Trump needs to do for you to abandon a hope in him? Because his cabinet picks, his conflicts of interests, his family members who suddenly have a lot of power, his inability to act like a president - or even an adult -, his Twitter tantrums, attacks on press and comedy shows and his lack of interest about everyday work and security briefings are apparently not enough. What is the line? When you will abandon a hope in Trump and put it in actual rebels? 

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, AlwaysExcited said:

What is the line? When you will abandon a hope in Trump and put it in actual rebels?

I wonder this too. How bad does he have to be for @Summer60 to say that he actually means all those terrible things he is saying. It is pretty bad now. So how much worse does it need to get?

[Summer60]

On 12/18/2016 at 8:46 PM, VixenToast said:

I can respect that. 

I just hope the American people aren't going to look the other way if the shit hits the fan. I also hope that somehow everything will be okay, though I have some doubts, I choose to remain realistic.

i respect your optimism. It's your duty now to stay aware, however. 

Agree. I hope Americans don't look the other way. I hope this is a wake up call for Americans to NOT look the other way. If a small lesson can be learned from Trump, we don't have to look the other way. We can stand up for what we believe. We can take action, we can be involved. Be it voicing our concerns with our elected officials, volunteering in our community, or even seeking office ourselves, we can all take part. Not doing so is not an option for me. I will certainly stay aware. I was raised to do so, involved growing up and will not stop now.

[Summer60]

On 12/19/2016 at 5:36 AM, formergothardite said:

I wonder this too. How bad does he have to be for @Summer60 to say that he actually means all those terrible things he is saying. It is pretty bad now. So how much worse does it need to get?

When the predictions of concentration camps from "literally Hitler" really seem to be plausible reality, I will agree it is "worse" enough for me to say he "actually means all those terrible things he is saying."

I am sorry to say this, but making that leap. Insisting he is like Hitler...That set the bar really low for Trump. I will scream loud before it happens. I won't stand back and let it happen.  I am not a sheep who will follow my leader regardless of what he says, but I am also not a sheep who will follow the opposition to the leader without hope that the actual leader will do right. What would have happened if Jyn had just done what she was told?

I see so many people writing letters to to their reps. Calling and leaving messages. Is that enough? Is there a willingness to work WITH a Trump Presidency rather than fight against him? You don't need to sign up to help build a wall, but are there pragmatic ways you can help rather than work against.

If he wants to help working people, or claims to, can you say "Count me in, let's do this thing!" and help assure that happens? Do you think it is a bad thing to keep jobs in the US or bring jobs back to the US? If you do, what else do you want to do to see rural America find jobs? What do you want to do help "working America?" If you had a sit down with Trump and completely had his ear, would you yell at him and tell him to denounce the hateful narrative, tell him what he is doing wrong, or would you have ideas that are better than ending the TPP, bringing jobs to America and keeping jobs in America.

How is Trump hurting small businesses? How is he helping small businesses?

Is there anything Trump has said that you feel could be positive? If you do, but you don't think he will bother because you believe he is only in this for personal gain, fine, but are you willing to give up and not hold him accountable and to continue forward with any of his platform?

The TPP is done. Not happening. I know many people who voted for Trump and seeing this happen was a huge selling point for Trump. Perhaps the biggest. Trump is delivering on that "promise" and I don't know that you can say that is for his personal gain.

[formergothardite]

2 hours ago, Summer60 said:

When the predictions of concentration camps from "literally Hitler" really seem to be plausible reality, I will agree it is "worse" enough for me to say he "actually means all those terrible things he is saying."

So you are going to wait till it is actually taking place to believe he is going to do the stuff he says? Won't that be a wee bit late? 

2 hours ago, Summer60 said:

What would have happened if Jyn had just done what she was told?

Who is Jyn? 

2 hours ago, Summer60 said:

Is there a willingness to work WITH a Trump Presidency rather than fight against him?

If he wants to do things that are not hurting people and help, sure I'll support it and I think both parties should be willing to work together. But if he is staying on the path he is on, then no, no one should work with that. He needs to be fought ever single step of the way. I'm still annoyed that the Charlotte government in trying to "work with" the Republicans backed down and got rid of the laws protecting vulnerable people. We don't need that sort of working together, do we? 

3 hours ago, Summer60 said:

If he wants to help working people, or claims to, can you say "Count me in, let's do this thing!" and help assure that happens?

Count me in, but don't count me in for supporting lies and bad government decisions like the Carrier one were just to put on a show and ends up hurting people. Do you think states should pay millions to companies to help them get to the point to get rid of jobs?

3 hours ago, Summer60 said:

What do you want to do help "working America?"

Have you looked at Hillary's detailed plan? I'm going with that. What exactly do you think Trump offers working America? Can you point to his plans that will help?

3 hours ago, Summer60 said:

If you had a sit down with Trump and completely had his ear, would you yell at him and tell him to denounce the hateful narrative, tell him what he is doing wrong, or would you have ideas that are better than ending the TPP, bringing jobs to America and keeping jobs in America.

I wouldn't let him lie without continually stopping him, so I think the conversation would be short. Do you support Trump's plans? Can you describe them for me? But if he asked, I would again, point to Hillary's plan for rural, working America. 

3 hours ago, Summer60 said:

How is Trump hurting small businesses? How is he helping small businesses?

He isn't exactly known for treating the people he hires well, is he? His tax cuts won't help small businesses. His deal with Carrier was just terrible for everyone. You really think millions for companies to keep tiny amounts of jobs for a limited time is good for small businesses? Killing TPP could very well hurt working America and small businesses in the long run. Now, can you point out exactly how he is helping small businesses?

3 hours ago, Summer60 said:

Is there anything Trump has said that you feel could be positive?

Can you list his positive statements that aren't obvious lies for me? I'm drawing a blank. Promises he never intends to keep don't count. You are going to have to provide things he said that he means. Also it would be nice if they are so good they can counteract all the really, REALLY, REALLY terrible stuff he says. A mountain of bad things with a speck of a good thing doesn't make me feel positive. Would it you? 

3 hours ago, Summer60 said:

but are you willing to give up and not hold him accountable and to continue forward with any of his platform?

His platform is TERRIBLE! We don't want him to move on with that*. He needs to find a new platform that isn't scary beyond all reason. 

*are you wanting him to stick with the platform he campaigned with? What did you like?