Whitney and Zach Bates- Part 2

[Mela99]

On 4/20/2017 at 1:55 PM, JMO said:

I want to post their relationship story because it is such a direct contrast from the fundie ones we see.

"Evan and I were both transfers to Ouachita Baptist University in fall 2011. On the day before classes, Evan and his roommate walked into the cafeteria and saw my friend and me walking towards them. Evan had known my friend since junior high, so he stopped to say hello, and she introduced us. The next day, Evan and I found ourselves in the same history class. Somehow, he got my number… only to find out I had a very serious boyfriend back home. That didn’t stop him from pursuing me, even though he was shot down many times. Time passed, and once I had broken up with my boyfriend, Evan finally took me on a date. He was nervous and constantly looked at his phone, which made me think he wasn’t interested in me. Fast forward to late January, Evan was with one of his good friends, Jared, and Jared’s girlfriend at the time, Kaylee (one of my best friends). Kaylee had told Jared to say something to Evan about taking me to the Beta Valentines banquet, so Jared did just that. Evan was surprised that I had any interest in going, only to find out later that I used him to go to this banquet because all my friends were going to be at it. Evan didn’t let that get him down though; he took it as a challenge. Well, he totally won that challenge, because 19 months later, here we are, married!"

 

So, they met at college (a Baptist University but still... ) She had a serious boyfriend that she broke up with (and wasn't so heart broken as to never speak of him again.) They went on a one off date.  And later to a dance that she only wanted to attend since her friends were going.  Oh, and her friends also date like the rest of us heathens.  She may be Christian Conservative but she's not fundie.  Her wedding was beautiful and the bridesmaids dresses were appropriate and showed some shoulders!!  She even had a real reception!

Holy freaking crap ... That was a fundie wedding!? I am in love with her dress. 

[LawsonBatesEgo]

I can't believe I feel sorry for Bin and Blessed, but i do feel sorry for them that they had to have that ugly mega church wedding with the parking lot reception instead of getting married in the Thorncrown Chapel like they actually seemed to want, all because they were pressured to invite 103929303820000 people. 

[nastyhobbitses]

On 4/18/2017 at 4:35 PM, OyToTheVey said:

IDK maybe it's the area where I live but it's not that hard to find cheap nice clothes here. There's outlets and all that. Even nice quality t shirts in different colors are cheap during sales at Banana Republic. I got a bunch off season in nice colors for like $7 each. My jeans are from Aero and they look really nice but they're cheap. I don't see any high end brand names on her. I just went (online) shopping and got 6 tops at Nordstrom Rack for $120. Not that bad.

Most things look nice if well groomed. And Whitney is very well groomed. Never a hair out of place, nails always done, make up always on. IMO it makes a huge difference. How she finds the time with 2 really young kids, that puzzles me. I can't even bother to brush my hair some mornings. 

To the first point: Yup. I like to buy nice clothes, but most of my really nice stuff is from outlet/discount stores (Nordstrom Rack, Off Fifth, TJMaxx, Marshalls), consignment/thrift shops (I have a gorgeous Michael Kors dress that I got for like 70 bucks from a consignment store), or clearance sales at nice stores (Banana Republic and Anthropologie both have great sales almost all the time). I almost never pay retail for nice things; if I'm paying full price, it's for basic t-shirts and leggings and stuff from H&M and those sorts of stores, which also have awesome clearance sales. It's entirely possible that Whitney lucked out and has some outlet/discount/thrift stores with good stock near her. Or it's entirely possible that she spends all their money on expensive dresses and nail treatments and hair dye. I don't know. But I do like her style (but Alyssa is fundie style goals).

To the second point: you're seeing a very curated life on her Instagram. Like hell she'd post pictures of herself with greasy, stringy hair, yesterday's makeup, and a schlubby, baby vomit-encrusted sweatshirt and pajama pants, even if that's her look most days when she's chasing around two small children. I mean, the only no-makeup photo of me on Instagram is me after a 5K race, so you'd be forgiven for believing that I always look well-groomed and totally don't just not bother to put pants on if I don't anticipate leaving my house.

[LawsonBatesEgo]

I am someone that many people would think spends a lot more money on clothing than I actually do. I often buy from nicer shops/brands, but I wait until the end of the season and buy things then and go more for things that don't really go out of style, like good jeans and black dresses and boots, instead of things that were the "trend" of the season (but if I like something I'll buy it anyway, I don't care if something is ~last year's fashion~ if it looks good on me). Shops will put big markdowns on things to get rid of them. I have a few nice handbags, but again, I wait for the sales and buy then. Black Friday sales often have something like "save 40% when you spend over $400" on websites with a lot of brands, so if you wait and buy a couple of things at once, you can get good quality stuff for almost half price. I basically buy a years worth of stuff like that once a year.  If you are clever with how you shop, you can often have nicer/more things than you'd be able to afford otherwise. Maybe Whitney is a clever shopper, maybe she is blowing through all the UP! money, who knows, but I will throw it out there that it is possible to be spending a lot less on things than people would assume. 

And if you looked at my instagram, you'd think I always have washed/blowdried/straightened hair, filled in eyebrows and make up on. That's not true. I just don't take pictures on days like today where I've had my pajamas on all day, haven't washed my hair in 3 days and have it in a gross nasty bun (I will wish it tomorrow), look tired from studying all day, and have no makeup on other than whatever is still on my face from what I put on 40 hours ago.......let alone upload them to the internet. Almost everyone only posts pictures where they look nice. I look like two different people when groomed vs when I'm not.....

 

[HarleyQuinn]

On 4/18/2017 at 1:47 PM, elliha said:

Is it possible she is famous enough to get "gifts" that she shows on instagram?

I got a 50% discount code for sending business to a local boutique on instagram once and I'm a nobody so it's possible. lol

[JesusCampSongs]

On 4/20/2017 at 4:24 PM, Joyfully Available said:

I'm honestly still trying to figure out what the main differences between a conservative Christian and a fundie really are. I definitely find the different degrees of conservative Christians interesting. Especially interesting when they all mingle together.

I was raised Southern Baptist, and here is my perspective:

Things Conservative Christians and Fundies have in common: They both:

• prefer "literal" translations of the Bible (which they then follow selectively).
• think that it is appropriate to mix politics and religion (in the vein of coercing others into following their beliefs).
• disagree with most "socially liberal" political causes, such as reproductive rights, LGBT rights, racial justice, etc. and like things like conversion therapy and crisis pregnancy centers.
• believe in young earth creationism (for the most part) and are not fans of environmentalism (though this is changing somewhat; a lot of SB's I know have changed their tune on this issue over the years).
• share the view that prayer can cure mental illnesses (though CC's are more willing to seek secular help and will often go to Christian counselors who have actual degrees).
• strongly support rigid gender roles (at least in theory) and the idea of The Man being in charge.
• do not support premarital sex or cohabitation.
• over-value female purity, have really unfortunate ideas about rape and sexual assault, and are prone to victim-blaming.
• consistently vote Republican.
• bar women from being ministers or having leadership positions in the church.
• endorse problematic child-rearing practices (though CC's are more fans of Dobson and less the Pearls...still not great, though). 

Things Conservative Christians and Fundies do not have in common: CC's do not:

• take a hard-line stance against birth control. In the churches I grew up in, it was considered irresponsible to have more children than you could afford to care for. Most families I knew only had 2-3 kids. 
• bar women from working outside the home outright. There's a lot of lip service about how being a SAHM is the highest calling or whatever, but most of the moms I knew growing up had jobs, and this continues to be the case.
• totally oppose secular education, nor do they  consistently endorse homeschooling. Many of the churches I attended didn't support homeschooling because "it makes kids weird." Private Christian schools were the preferred choice, but were not mandatory at all. 
• prohibit dating, though there's a wide range of what individual families would and would not allow their kids to do. My parents were comparatively permissive (I could not attend parties unless they knew the other kids' parents well, but I could go to some parties and I was allowed to be with boys unsupervised once they met my mother). Others barely let their kids leave the house without a chaperone. Either way, courtship was not really a thing-- even though I Kissed Dating Goodbye and True Love Waits were really popular when I was in high school, participation wasn't mandatory and most kids dated normally. The same is generally true today (my dad is the youth Sunday School teacher). 
• ban girls from attending college. They usually encourage it (as a means to meet husbands, but also insurance in case they do not meet a husband). They do tend to prefer their kids attend Christian colleges, though. Military service is also promoted if college isn't a good option (for both sexes). 
• expect their unmarried adult children to live with their parents until marriage. Premarital cohabitation is discouraged (but is not a dealbreaker per se), but living alone or with a (preferably same-sex) roommate is totally fine. 
• require modest dress. It was sort of frowned upon to wear short skirts and the like to church (and there was shaming involved that I experienced a few times) but I was never expected to don a frumper, and anyone who did would have been considered really weird. There's also no preferred hairstyle as far as I have experienced.
• shun people who have premarital sex. It's frowned upon, but it wouldn't get you sent to Jesus Jail or anything. Unless you were having gay premarital sex, which is a whole other story. 

I guess the key here is that fundies and conservative Christians hold a lot of the same ideological beliefs, but CC's are a lot more flexible about those beliefs in practice. 

I have also noticed that the Bates are way more tolerant of their kids hanging out with mainstream-ish conservative Christians than most of our other fundie families. The Bates kids attend a lot of Rave4Jesus-type events that I went to back in the day, and those are more CC than fundie. 

10 hours ago, LawsonBatesEgo said:

I am someone that many people would think spends a lot more money on clothing than I actually do. I often buy from nicer shops/brands, but I wait until the end of the season and buy things then and go more for things that don't really go out of style, like good jeans and black dresses and boots, instead of things that were the "trend" of the season (but if I like something I'll buy it anyway, I don't care if something is ~last year's fashion~ if it looks good on me). 

I'm the same way in that I buy a lot of investment pieces and don't cheap out on shoes and handbags. I also buy the expensive makeup-- I have learned over time that the quality of makeup and perfume you wear has something of a halo effect on your outfit, and that it's easy to look good in fast fashion but hard to look good in low-end makeup that doesn't match your skin or smears off by midday. And don't even get me started on cheap perfume/body spray...

[VelociRapture]

... I'm honestly just impressed she looks as put together as she does she often as she does. I'm a new mom myself. I have two kids - a 4 month old and a dog (who is wicked smart and emotionally needy - she totally counts as a toddler.) Most days I struggle to make myself look halfway presentable. I actually just got my hair chopped to shoulder length or so to try and help with that.

But I still don't get how Whitney  (or any of these moms) have the time to look good - meaning the hair, makeup, picking an outfit, etc. Is there some secret I missed out on? 

[Purrl]

Maybe a few of the Bates girls come over to "play" with the kids so Whitney can get some time to herself.

[VelociRapture]

8 hours ago, Purrl said:

Maybe a few of the Bates girls come over to "play" with the kids so Whitney can get some time to herself.

I was thinking maybe that or that they get ready before their husbands wake up for work. And that second one wouldn't work for me because I really like my sleep. 

[front hugs > duggs]

@VelociRapture I agree with @Purrl- wanna look as put together as Whit? Better get some sister moms pronto! 

[Melissa1977]

12 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

... I'm honestly just impressed she looks as put together as she does she often as she does. I'm a new mom myself. I have two kids - a 4 month old and a dog (who is wicked smart and emotionally needy - she totally counts as a toddler.) Most days I struggle to make myself look halfway presentable. I actually just got my hair chopped to shoulder length or so to try and help with that.

But I still don't get how Whitney  (or any of these moms) have the time to look good - meaning the hair, makeup, picking an outfit, etc. Is there some secret I missed out on? 

Maybe she ignores crying babies when  she's with her make up sessions. Maybe there's Zach  or an in-law helping. Maybe she has easy babies.

Anyway, she doesn't post that often. Her pictures are not daily, not even weekly (most of pics are of her kids, not herself). It's not a miracle to look nice dressed from time to time. Even for a mom of 2 little ones.

[VelociRapture]

2 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

Maybe she ignores crying babies when  she's with her make up sessions. Maybe there's Zach  or an in-law helping. Maybe she has easy babies.

Anyway, she doesn't post that often. Her pictures are not daily, not even weekly (most of pics are of her kids, not herself). It's not a miracle to look nice dressed from time to time. Even for a mom of 2 little ones.

When you're a new mom it actually can seem like a bit of a miracle. Not just to look put together, but to get more than a few minutes alone or a few minutes to focus on yourself. It's a big adjustment for a lot of people, especially the first few months. At least that's how it feels to me sometimes. Others may feel differently. 

And I did consider the possibility that they just ignore their screaming children. I don't like to think any parent would let their very young child cry hysterically for long periods of time so they can make themselves look nice - but I also know that some people are just really shitty parents and would do exactly that (or worse.)

ETA: And I know she doesn't post everyday too. I think I'm more curious because I wasn't that good at the whole hair and makeup thing before I was pregnant (I really have no talent for curling hair or making it look nice or doing more than minimal makeup.) So now that I have a baby it seems like it would be a miracle to look that put together even on a special occasion. 

[MsSaylor]

Thats the thing-everyone is different in what they can/want to continue to prioritize after they have kids and thats ok.  Whitney looking nice and put together in photos doesnt mean shes ignoring her screaming babies and moms who wear sweats, forget to shower or have a messy ponytail doesnt mean they dont care/dont value themselves or whatever. Every mom has their own groove and style and priorties. I know a mom of 7 who works full time, always looks put together as do the kids, has a spotless home and throws elaborate pinterest parties for her kids wherin she makes all the shit herself. Its unimaginable to me how she achieves this but she always comes across at ease, happy and not overly stressed.  

[Joyfully Available]

@JesusCampSongs thanks for that response! It's nice to hear those well thought out points from a different perspective.

Love FJ... the things I learn from reading here. 

[VineHeart137]

Even when my daughter was a newborn, I never found it impossible to put on some nice clothes, comb my hair, and put on the little makeup I do wear. I didn't do it every day because I didn't really care to, but when I felt like it I could usually manage it fairly easily. I mean, I only have the one now though. Who knows what will happen when the next one comes along. 

[VelociRapture]

I should probably clarify my last comment - I don't know whether Whitney (or any of these moms) would let their child cry hysterically while they spend a ton of time making themselves look nice. I like to think they wouldn't and they've just gotten so good at getting ready that it takes next to no time for them to do everything now. Is it a possibility? Sure. But we have no evidence to suggest or support that and unless we get some I'm going to err on the side of caution and give them the benefit of the doubt.

2 hours ago, VineHeart137 said:

Even when my daughter was a newborn, I never found it impossible to put on some nice clothes, comb my hair, and put on the little makeup I do wear. I didn't do it every day because I didn't really care to, but when I felt like it I could usually manage it fairly easily. I mean, I only have the one now though. Who knows what will happen when the next one comes along. 

I feel like I'm more in survival mode most days. I pretty much just grab whatever clean clothes are in the drawer and hope the baby sleeps long enough so I can dry my hair on days I wash it.   

ETA: And the part where I mentioned evidence and benefit of the doubt - I meant about them ignoring their kids. 

Writing is hard sometimes.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

4 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

When you're a new mom it actually can seem like a bit of a miracle. Not just to look put together, but to get more than a few minutes alone or a few minutes to focus on yourself. It's a big adjustment for a lot of people, especially the first few months. At least that's how it feels to me sometimes. Others may feel differently. 

And I did consider the possibility that they just ignore their screaming children. I don't like to think any parent would let their very young child cry hysterically for long periods of time so they can make themselves look nice - but I also know that some people are just really shitty parents and would do exactly that (or worse.)

ETA: And I know she doesn't post everyday too. I think I'm more curious because I wasn't that good at the whole hair and makeup thing before I was pregnant (I really have no talent for curling hair or making it look nice or doing more than minimal makeup.) So now that I have a baby it seems like it would be a miracle to look that put together even on a special occasion. 

I have found it to be easier/harder depending on each baby's temperament. If you were already accustomed to getting made up every morning, and you have fairly easy babes who wake up roughly the same time each morning, and you can get up a bit before them, or baby will sit in her bouncer while you do makeup and talk to her and blow raspberries, it can be pretty easy. And yeah, the priorities thing. I could get my makeup on real quick before everyone gets up, but it's more important to me to have a cup of coffee alone in a quiet house. YMMV. I know that some women (me!) find getting dressed and putting on makeup to be the way they make themselves more productive. If I'm in your comfies, I want to sit me read all day. 

5 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I should probably clarify my last comment - I don't know whether Whitney (or any of these moms) would let their child cry hysterically while they spend a ton of time making themselves look nice. I like to think they wouldn't and they've just gotten so good at getting ready that it takes next to no time for them to do everything now. Is it a possibility? Sure. But we have no evidence to suggest or support that and unless we get some I'm going to err on the side of caution and give them the benefit of the doubt.

I feel like I'm more in survival mode most days. I pretty much just grab whatever clean clothes are in the drawer and hope the baby sleeps long enough so I can dry my hair on days I wash it.   

Been there :-). When I had my first baby, I thought I had to hold her whenever she was awake. It was an epiphany when an older friend suggested I strap her to a bouncer or high chair and let her play outside the shower where I could peek at her and talk to her! I had seriously never thought of doing such a thing. (I was rather uptight with my first.) I also find I can do makeup, and tons of other things, while baby-wearing. It saved my life with one of my particularly fussy and clingy babies. 

[SuhrEnity]

2 hours ago, MsSaylor said:

Thats the thing-everyone is different in what they can/want to continue to prioritize after they have kids and thats ok.  Whitney looking nice and put together in photos doesnt mean shes ignoring her screaming babies and moms who wear sweats, forget to shower or have a messy ponytail doesnt mean they dont care/dont value themselves or whatever. Every mom has their own groove and style and priorties. I know a mom of 7 who works full time, always looks put together as do the kids, has a spotless home and throws elaborate pinterest parties for her kids wherin she makes all the shit herself. Its unimaginable to me how she achieves this but she always comes across at ease, happy and not overly stressed.  

That's what I was gonna say. It's definitely different for everyone. I have 2 young kids and I do wear makeup (foundation, concealer, eye shadow, eye liner, mascara the full works) and do my hair everyday. I also have a multi step skin care routine that I've been doing twice a day for years that i still do (hello Korean skin care lol). I just know how i like to feel about myself personally and when I do do that for myself where I take the time to do something I like for myself everyday I have a better day and I feel good about myself. Looking a certain way is just important to me and always has been. Not for anyone else just for me. My friend thinks I'm crazy cause she'd rather watch Netflix in her down time while I'd rather use my downtime to do my skin care and makeup. It's all personal preferences to everyone I think. 

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, JemimaPuddle-Duck said:

I have found it to be easier/harder depending on each baby's temperament. If you were already accustomed to getting made up every morning, and you have fairly easy babes who wake up roughly the same time each morning, and you can get up a bit before them, or baby will sit in her bouncer while you do makeup and talk to her and blow raspberries, it can be pretty easy. And yeah, the priorities thing. I could get my makeup on real quick before everyone gets up, but it's more important to me to have a cup of coffee alone in a quiet house. YMMV. I know that some women (me!) find getting dressed and putting on makeup to be the way they make themselves more productive. If I'm in your comfies, I want to sit me read all day. 

Been there :-). When I had my first baby, I thought I had to hold her whenever she was awake. It was an epiphany when an older friend suggested I strap her to a bouncer or high chair and let her play outside the shower where I could peek at her and talk to her! I had seriously never thought of doing such a thing. (I was rather uptight with my first.) I also find I can do makeup, and tons of other things, while baby-wearing. It saved my life with one of my particularly fussy and clingy babies. 

Lol! Velocibaby is like sunshine captured in human form. She's a very happy little person. But she definitely has firm preferences - for instance, if she wakes up from a nap she usually doesn't want to just lay there for a bit. She wants to be picked up and (usually) be fed. And she's four months now, so she's really into spitting up and is very curious about everything. Thinking about it, it's probably better that I don't dress nicer or do my makeup more Igor now. She's got phenomenal aim when she spits up and always gets me somehow. 

When she was a newborn I'd have her in the vibrating chair thing on the bathroom floor while I showered. Now I just shower fast while she naps (she's decided she's not a fan of long naps recently.)

I've attempted to wear her. She was really happy about it as a newborn since she was a preemie and she wanted to be close to me, but she's not a fan anymore. She'd much rather sit up on the couch (I prop her against the back) because she can see everything from there. Or have us carry her around in our arms. It's funny how they can have such defined personalities at such young ages. Lol!

[Melissa1977]

11 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

When you're a new mom it actually can seem like a bit of a miracle. Not just to look put together, but to get more than a few minutes alone or a few minutes to focus on yourself. It's a big adjustment for a lot of people, especially the first few months. At least that's how it feels to me sometimes. Others may feel differently. 

And I did consider the possibility that they just ignore their screaming children. I don't like to think any parent would let their very young child cry hysterically for long periods of time so they can make themselves look nice - but I also know that some people are just really shitty parents and would do exactly that (or worse.)

ETA: And I know she doesn't post everyday too. I think I'm more curious because I wasn't that good at the whole hair and makeup thing before I was pregnant (I really have no talent for curling hair or making it look nice or doing more than minimal makeup.) So now that I have a baby it seems like it would be a miracle to look that put together even on a special occasion. 

I have kids. I know babies /toddlers can be overwhelming, but believe me, for some people it's not a miracle to find 10 minutes to make up. Not everyday but from time to time, specially if husband is helping. I look very pretty dressed/hair brushed in IG pictures with my kids, but It doesn't mean I'm looking that way everyday.

It seems your newborn experience was been a bit harder than mine and I'm sorry to listen it. But It doesn't mean Whit is doing anything weird or special finding time for beauty. 

[VelociRapture]

8 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

I have kids. I know babies /toddlers can be overwhelming, but believe me, for some people it's not a miracle to find 10 minutes to make up. Not everyday but from time to time, specially if husband is helping. I look very pretty dressed/hair brushed in IG pictures with my kids, but It doesn't mean I'm looking that way everyday.

It seems your newborn experience was been a bit harder than mine and I'm sorry to listen it. But It doesn't mean Whit is doing anything weird or special finding time for beauty. 

It was tougher than I expected because she was premature and she was only a month old when tax season started. So I was pretty much on my own from January until last week because my husband was working a ridiculous amount. I definitely got used to it and we developed a nice little routine most days - but it took time and was more difficult than I had anticipated. 

Husband is home way more now, so I've been able to start having a bit of time for myself. I actually read a non-kid book for the first time in months (The Handmaid's Tale), which I was pretty excited about. 

(I've never been great at hair and makeup, so it doesn't take much to impress me. Lol!)

-------------

Zach helped people. Kelly is proud. Discuss?

[bal maiden]

Wow, and no mention of him trying to proselytise them either! 

[Carm_88]

Nice of him to stop and do it. I'm not sure, it's exactly out of the ordinary for small town cops. They tend to be pretty helpful, at least where I'm from. I don't know about that area though, so maybe Zach is exceptional? A nice gesture either way. 

[Feministe9000]

Zach is a zealot, super duper Evangelical Christian....BUT:

-I've noticed the more I've watched recently, his comments about his love for Whitney "I don't care about anything else you've done, I love your heat" , his willingness to help out his family, a comment he made in an earlier episode of Season 5 (i've watched now some of them are free on the UP TV website), he was talking about how wonderful it is to have Bradley and Kaci-Lynn, and he said "These days, I just love being alive, *paraphrase*, and something else about how life is just really good.

Maybe it's just me, but I can see why Whitney loves him so much, he seems like a hardworking, kind, sweet guy who is proud of his family and is enjoying his life.
Since perception is everything, I don't think it can get much better than that, particularly the sort of life that the Bates' live.

And all the while, he acts like a real Christian, and goes out of his way as a police officer to help others, which is admirable. Good for him. I don't care who he voted for, because in a small place like Pigeon Forge TN, it doesn't really matter who the freakin' president is, life is different, and kindness and community matter.

He's becoming a better man than Gil could ever dream of being.

[SuhrEnity]

3 hours ago, Feministe9000 said:

Zach is a zealot, super duper Evangelical Christian....BUT:

-I've noticed the more I've watched recently, his comments about his love for Whitney "I don't care about anything else you've done, I love your heat" , his willingness to help out his family, a comment he made in an earlier episode of Season 5 (i've watched now some of them are free on the UP TV website), he was talking about how wonderful it is to have Bradley and Kaci-Lynn, and he said "These days, I just love being alive, *paraphrase*, and something else about how life is just really good.

Maybe it's just me, but I can see why Whitney loves him so much, he seems like a hardworking, kind, sweet guy who is proud of his family and is enjoying his life.
Since perception is everything, I don't think it can get much better than that, particularly the sort of life that the Bates' live.

And all the while, he acts like a real Christian, and goes out of his way as a police officer to help others, which is admirable. Good for him. I don't care who he voted for, because in a small place like Pigeon Forge TN, it doesn't really matter who the freakin' president is, life is different, and kindness and community matter.

He's becoming a better man than Gil could ever dream of being.

I have always liked him. He's never rubbed me wrong and I've always thought he had a nice personality and was nice and kind. Unlike Josh who creeped me out from Day 1. I have facebook posts from back then that say how creepy I thought Josh was