Whitney and Zach Bates- Part 2

[Carm_88]

15 hours ago, LillyP said:

  1.) They're cute & 2.) come winter all their girls have no issues keeping a hat on because they're used to having something on their head. Meanwhile my friends with boys have a constant battle of winter of them ripping their hats off.

Cute is a matter of taste, I don't think they look cute at all. As for hats, most babies wear hats all summer long to keep them from getting sunburned. There are other ways than putting huge bows on them. 

[JordynDarby5]

16 hours ago, JemimaPuddle-Duck said:

I swear there's not a day that goes by without people bitching about those bows. They're not my favorite; we got some as gifts, but generally didn't use them often....and only the soft and loose ones. If a parent put them on regularly from birth, it's not unthinkable a kid would just be used to them and not rip them off. It doesn't mean they're slapping hands or gluing them down or forcing them to wear them around the clock.  Those big honkin' bows are a major southern thing, whether you're fundie or not. @Hmmm_idolatry, the speculation that fundies do the bows so that God-forbid-anyone-thinks-a-girl-is-a-boy is just that --- speculation. 

In the normal world with normal people bows on baby girls isn't that big deal. It comes down to really the parent. Some think its cute and put bows on them and others don't like them so they don't. But in Duggar and Bates world boys and girls always have dressed to be sure everyone knows their a boy or girl starting from birth. Their never going to throw a blue hat on a baby girl or dress her in clothes that have footballs on them, tools or ones that look like baseball uniforms. Their careful to dress their baby sons in clothes that are boy clothes.  All their baby girls have bows.  Its really about starting from the very beginning to train them gender roles.  

[VelociRapture]

My daughter has never worn bows and has no issues with hats. My nephew has no problems with hats either. I'm sure some babies do, but I don't think it really has anything to do with babies learning to tolerate them because of bows. Just make it a point to put a weather-appropriate hat on your kid before heading outside and most of them will eventually get used to it. 

And like others have said, with these specific families (Duggars, Bates, etc.) the bows are important because gender roles. The parents may also find them to be cute, but still - gender stereotypes are very important to these people.

(I don't judge parents who use bows just because they think they look cute by the way. I think it looks uncomfortable, but I also have a somewhat sensitive scalp. So I can't really judge others for using them or assume all babies are uncomfortable wearing them based off my own experience.)

[Kittikatz]

The constant bitching about bowes and transferance as people imagine how they/their babies would feel about wearing such items, and the speculation as to the mother's motivation for decking their spawn out in such a way seems a bit like BEC. Fine, the bows suck monkey balls, but they are small potatoes compared to the bigger sex/gender stereotypes these kids are going to have rammed down their throats for the next 18 plus years.

My mother despaired at my looks and hair when I was a baby. I had bows taped and/or glued in every bloody day because my mother thought they looked cute and distracted from my flat face and 'bad' hair (obviously flawed logic). I don't remember them bothering me (unlike shoes and socks, which were ripped off at first available opportunity). The bows were just always there, and were always a non-issue for me.

[actuallyjessica]

1 hour ago, Kittikatz said:

The constant bitching about bowes and transferance as people imagine how they/their babies would feel about wearing such items, and the speculation as to the mother's motivation for decking their spawn out in such a way seems a bit like BEC. Fine, the bows suck monkey balls, but they are small potatoes compared to the bigger sex/gender stereotypes these kids are going to have rammed down their throats for the next 18 plus years.

My mother despaired at my looks and hair when I was a baby. I had bows taped and/or glued in every bloody day because my mother thought they looked cute and distracted from my flat face and 'bad' hair (obviously flawed logic). I don't remember them bothering me (unlike shoes and socks, which were ripped off at first available opportunity). The bows were just always there, and were always a non-issue for me.

Exactly. It's just as tiresome as the pants are to others, to be honest...

[Carm_88]

Kaci Lynn is 9 months old. 

[HereticHick]

When sequined hair bows attack.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

14 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

When sequined hair bows attack.

At least it looks like a comfy one. 

[GreyhoundFan]

50 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

When sequined hair bows attack.

I'm losing my  mind -- because of the angle of my monitor, I didn't see the sequins at first. I thought she had a lettuce leaf on her head. I squinted and thought that was a strange way to celebrate spring. I agree with @JemimaPuddle-Duck, at least this one has a wide band that looks comfortable.

[GenerationCedarchip]

56 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

When sequined hair bows attack.

It is a little bright. Oh, but that baby smile!  She looks really cute and happy. I'm not a huge fan of the sequins but I'm from the South, and I've seen way scarier things on babies - fundy and otherwise.

[Casserole]

9 months already! Time for another blessing announcement! 

 

(Just kidding. Please enjoy the two that you already have)

[Carm_88]

43 minutes ago, Casserole said:

9 months already! Time for another blessing announcement! 

 

(Just kidding. Please enjoy the two that you already have)

Well that would be refreshing if they did!

And yes it is quite the sequined bow, but a wide stretchy band isn't as uncomfortable looking. 

[TuringMachine]

1 hour ago, Casserole said:

9 months already! Time for another blessing announcement! 

 

(Just kidding. Please enjoy the two that you already have)

They announced Kaci pregnancy when Bradley was 1 so I give it 3 months.

[VelociRapture]

3 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

Kaci Lynn is 9 months old. 

She sure is a cute kid. She's got such a great smile.

And I agree with others. The band on this one looks super comfortable. Still not a fan in general, but she's also not my kid. If she's happy and healthy that's all that matters (other than wishing that her parents ultimately wise up and break from the cult - for Kaci and Bradley's sake.)

[season of life]

Kaci Lynn is so cute. I've said it before and I will say it again. She is always smiling.

I would like to see how long Whitney and Zach go before having a third child. Bradley was pretty young when they announced they were going to have a second child.

[Greendoor]

5 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

Kaci Lynn is 9 months old. 

Seriously.  Nine months old and already being seen as Mommy's little shadow.  And isn't that just her feminine whiles wrapping the household males around her finger.  

I cannot stand this kind of objectification.  I know she will have no choices in life, it's so depressing.

 

[infooverload]

Does anyone think being around fellow police officers will cause Zach to consider changing his views on family planning? Do all of the Bates and Duggars have to include the leaving family size up to God in their vows? I will say I am suprised he wasn't talked out of being a police officer. From what I understand the big push of Gothard adherents is to establish their own businesses. After all can't have to much interaction with outside groups, which isn't tightly controlled.

[actuallyjessica]

Does anyone think being around fellow police officers will cause Zach to consider changing his views on family planning? Do all of the Bates and Duggars have to include the leaving family size up to God in their vows? I will say I am suprised he wasn't talked out of being a police officer. From what I understand the big push of Gothard adherents is to establish their own businesses. After all can't have to much interaction with outside groups, which isn't tightly controlled.

I don't think any of the kids besides Michael have come out and said "whatever the lord gives" when talking about kids.

It's hard to know though because none of their weddings besides Michael's have been filmed and broadcasted. And of course the bits from Erin's on 19k&c. We haven't witnessed any first kisses besides those. We don't know what was said, if anything about family planning in their vows.

It's going to be super interesting to see where the married ones are in say, 10 years time. If any of them have more than 6 kids I will be very surprised.

[formergothardite]

6 hours ago, infooverload said:

I will say I am suprised he wasn't talked out of being a police officer. From what I understand the big push of Gothard adherents is to establish their own businesses. After all can't have to much interaction with outside groups, which isn't tightly controlled.

Not really. While he did for a long time claim no one needed college, Gothard has always loooooved having people in the government. Once his grand idea of no college failed, he started his own "college" and Oak Brook College of Law. Steve Maxwell pushes for only being self-employed, but Gothard used to claim businesses were fighting to hire IBLP students. Women being self-employed was pushed big time in IBLP, but I don't remember it as much for the guys. Advanced EXCEL was supposed to train women to start their own home business so they could earn money while not having to work for people outside the home. 

[VelociRapture]

2 hours ago, actuallyjessica said:

I don't think any of the kids besides Michael have come out and said "whatever the lord gives" when talking about kids.

It's hard to know though because none of their weddings besides Michael's have been filmed and broadcasted. And of course the bits from Erin's on 19k&c. We haven't witnessed any first kisses besides those. We don't know what was said, if anything about family planning in their vows.

It's going to be super interesting to see where the married ones are in say, 10 years time. If any of them have more than 6 kids I will be very surprised.

Alyssa and John's wedding was broadcast on ABC News. Here are links to articles/videos about it:

https://www.google.com/amp/abcnews.go.com/amp/Lifestyle/family-21-throws-wedding/story%3Fid%3D24508676

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/nightline-prime-mega-family-21-plans-wedding-24539521

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/wedding-day-bates-family-24543016

I didn't watch the videos. I did look through the article. It was interesting enough and worth a look. Didn't see anything about number of kids other than what Michael said - that she and Brandon want a big family, but will be happy with two if that's what God provides them.

Even if all the weddings had been filmed, there's no guarantee we'd know more than we do now. I'm pretty sure TLC eventually edited the weddings of Jill and Jessa to hide any references to "leaving it up to God." Not sure about Jinger.

ETA: That should have said something about, "if leaving it up to God," was included in the vows for any of these couples. I think it's likely, but we can't know for sure if we weren't there or we don't have evidence to prove it.

[actuallyjessica]

8 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Alyssa and John's wedding was broadcast on ABC News. Here are links to articles/videos about it:

https://www.google.com/amp/abcnews.go.com/amp/Lifestyle/family-21-throws-wedding/story%3Fid%3D24508676

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/nightline-prime-mega-family-21-plans-wedding-24539521

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/wedding-day-bates-family-24543016

I didn't watch the videos. I did look through the article. It was interesting enough and worth a look. Didn't see anything about number of kids other than what Michael said - that she and Brandon want a big family, but will be happy with two if that's what God provides them.

Even if all the weddings had been filmed, there's no guarantee we'd know more than we do now. I'm pretty sure TLC eventually edited the weddings of Jill and Jessa to hide any references to "leaving it up to God." Not sure about Jinger.

Very little of Alyssa's wedding was broadcast. I am just dying to know if they said something about it being their first kiss... because... I have heavy suspicion they did not save their first kiss for their wedding day.

Of course they edit out what they see fit, but it is kinda strange for a family that has been so public about leaving children up to God, the kids are pretty quiet on the matter. Whether that's because they disagree, or whether UP has told them to keep their mouths shut. We don't know at this stage.

[VelociRapture]

50 minutes ago, actuallyjessica said:

Very little of Alyssa's wedding was broadcast. I am just dying to know if they said something about it being their first kiss... because... I have heavy suspicion they did not save their first kiss for their wedding day.

Of course they edit out what they see fit, but it is kinda strange for a family that has been so public about leaving children up to God, the kids are pretty quiet on the matter. Whether that's because they disagree, or whether UP has told them to keep their mouths shut. We don't know at this stage.

It is interesting. I have a feeling it's a bit of UP telling them to be cautious and some of the couples (like Zachney) just not wanting to discuss whatever views they have publicly. Cherin didn't have much of a choice and neither do the Keilens - but I get the feeling Cherin didn't mind sharing too much whereas the Keilens may want to keep their struggle more private for now. I hope the wishes of both couples (whatever they may actually be) are respected in that sense.

As for Alyssa, we all know she's gone on record as wanting only six or eight kids. I think all we can do in that case - or with any of these second gen couples - is wait and see. It's one thing to want something and another matter to actually take steps to make it happen.

[send*the*ferrets]

only six or eight kids 

 

[Mela99]

That post makes me think of TextsFromLastNight I saw once... "If you're posting about your wEdDiNg dAy!! you're too young to get married." STOP WITH THE UPPERCASE/LOWERCASE POOP. 

[catlady]

4 minutes ago, Mela99 said:

That post makes me think of TextsFromLastNight I saw once... "If you're posting about your wEdDiNg dAy!! you're too young to get married." STOP WITH THE UPPERCASE/LOWERCASE POOP. 

The cApS nonsense is ridiculously distracting and hard to read. And it reminds me of when we passed notes in study hall back in the dark ages of 1985 when the cutesy trendy girls would use two colors of ink and alternate them on every line or word.