Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath

[nausicaa]

11 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

It's pretty widely accepted among Sci-watchers that Suri -- an adult in a little body according to Scientology -- is an SP and thus Tom should avoid her. Because you know how threatening to one's deeply held religious convictions 9-yo girls can be. 

For some real conspiracy-theory times, look at photos of David Miscavige, Shelly Miscavige and Tom's daughter Isabella Cruise. Some time ago it was noted how Bella's natural posture is very much like David's.  Watching episode 1 the other night, I thought Shelly looked familiar and realized she shares some significant facial features with Ms. Cruise. Yes, there are those who suspect the child was conceived and birthed to be adopted by Tom and then-wife Nicole Kidman. 

I only report.  I don't decide. 

 

I did not realize that Suri was considered an SP (Could these people be any more ridiculous? ) nor had I heard the rumor that Isabella is thought by some to be the biological child of the Miscaviges. That is a really interesting theory though. 

I've always found it surprising how much control Cruise exerted over the child custody after their divorce. I mean, it's not like Kidman is some nobody. She was rich and famous as well.

[Incognito22]

25 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

It's pretty widely accepted among Sci-watchers that Suri -- an adult in a little body according to Scientology -- is an SP and thus Tom should avoid her. Because you know how threatening to one's deeply held religious convictions 9-yo girls can be. 

For some real conspiracy-theory times, look at photos of David Miscavige, Shelly Miscavige and Tom's daughter Isabella Cruise. Some time ago it was noted how Bella's natural posture is very much like David's.  Watching episode 1 the other night, I thought Shelly looked familiar and realized she shares some significant facial features with Ms. Cruise. Yes, there are those who suspect the child was conceived and birthed to be adopted by Tom and then-wife Nicole Kidman. 

I only report.  I don't decide. 

 

Oh My!  As I swam dive and do the back stroke into the conspiracy.  I love me some conspiracy theories!  

[BemusedByFundamentalism]

Maybe this is a silly question, but how could Suri be considered an SP for Tom Cruise? I looked up the definition of an SP on Scientology's website and I couldn't understand how a child could be an SP. (Not that there is anything else understandable but you know what I mean).

ETA:
In the meantime I started reading Remini's AMA on Reddit and only then discovered Katie Holmes and Tom Cruise are divorced (which I guess explains why Suri would be considered an SP). I probably have been living in a cave.
 

[Cleopatra7]

18 minutes ago, Incognito22 said:

Oh My!  As I swam dive and do the back stroke into the conspiracy.  I love me some conspiracy theories!  

There are still people at the Crown Princess Marie Chantal celebrity gossip board who are "Team Pillow" (I.e. think Katie Holmes faked her pregnancy with a pillow) or think that Suri's real father was one of Katie's exes. I think Suri looks just like Tom Cruise, and I think that if she wasn't his daughter, some Scientology defector would have said so by now.

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, Cleopatra7 said:

There are still people at the Crown Princess Marie Chantal celebrity gossip board who are "Team Pillow" (I.e. think Katie Holmes faked her pregnancy with a pillow) or think that Suri's real father was one of Katie's exes. I think Suri looks just like Tom Cruise, and I think that if she wasn't his daughter, some Scientology defector would have said so by now.

Suri looks like a perfect mix of Tom and Katie so I'll never believe she isn't the bio child of those two. 

Now isabella? Supposedly she is the daughter of a married Scientology woman who had two kids already and couldn't handle a third. Which of course is possible. But the part of my brain that likes to wear a tin foil hat says that she could also be a love child of David and a mistress that was made to give the baby up. Or the baby of David and a Scientology surrogate chosen by David to please Tom And Nicole since they wanted children. 

[snarkysally]

On 11/30/2016 at 1:00 PM, Jucifer said:

It vexes me... why are they sacrificing years of their lives and resources and even their families to this?

 

7 hours ago, Peas n carrots said:

If you wonder how someone even a very intelligent can get sucked into a cult read Going Clear by Lawrence Wright. Paul Haggis' $cientology journey is documented, and you can see how someone might get sucked in.

 

I have a distinct memory from when I was in high school. I sat at the lunch table and said, "No man would ever boss me around. I would never ask permission for anything. If he even THOUGHT about hitting me, I would be gone." I was very disdainful of women in abusive relationships and completely adamant that I would never end up in one. Just a few short years later I spent 2 years in an abusive relationship and I learned firsthand just how it can happen. 

I think cults (this one and others) are somewhat similar in that they don't start out feeling like cults and then people get in too deep without ever realizing it. 

[Jana814]

I talked before about my ex-friend becoming a Jehovah Witness.  I think she got sucked in just like Leah and her family did. Glad she has seen the light & is talking truth about this religion. 

[FlamingFundie]

I totally agree with the PP who said Suri is a perfect mix of Tom and Katie. I say that every time I see a pic of that child, and the older she gets the more she looks like them both.

I think I missed something-- Are Tom/Nicole's kids still in Scientology? Didn't Nicole have a bio kid with Keith Urban? Sunday Rose, isn't that her name?

ETA: I get the impression from this article that she might not be into Scientology anymore, if she "still talks" to both parents yet keeps her distance from both as well. How does that work in Scientology??

http://us.hellomagazine.com/celebrities/2016031430281/isabella-cruise-opens-up-tom-cruise-nicole-kidman/

[16strong]

3 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

It's pretty widely accepted among Sci-watchers that Suri -- an adult in a little body according to Scientology -- is an SP and thus Tom should avoid her. Because you know how threatening to one's deeply held religious convictions 9-yo girls can be. 

For some real conspiracy-theory times, look at photos of David Miscavige, Shelly Miscavige and Tom's daughter Isabella Cruise. Some time ago it was noted how Bella's natural posture is very much like David's.  Watching episode 1 the other night, I thought Shelly looked familiar and realized she shares some significant facial features with Ms. Cruise. Yes, there are those who suspect the child was conceived and birthed to be adopted by Tom and then-wife Nicole Kidman. 

I only report.  I don't decide. 

 

I'm going to stir the pot even more. Not sure if anyone's ever noticed this, but check a picture of former author services executive director Barbara Ruiz. There's a couple of her mid-way down this page: http://www.villagevoice.com/news/scientologys-writers-of-the-future-contest-troubling-ties-to-abuse-in-the-church-6705119

[Howl]

Barbara Ruiz: Isn't she currently missing in the same way that Shelley Miscavige is?

[Crocoduck]

So, I watched the first episode while doing some boring work today. I think the show is very well done. Leah is pretty clear that she's not attacking the "religion," her mission is to end the abuse and isolation of members. She made the same point in her AMA a couple times. This is important because she refrains from calling out the current members as having false beliefs, her argument is with the leadership and how they treat people.

Looking forward to the rest. I hope it helps at least some people get out or back in touch with their families.

[Jucifer]

3 hours ago, snarkysally said:

 

 

I have a distinct memory from when I was in high school. I sat at the lunch table and said, "No man would ever boss me around. I would never ask permission for anything. If he even THOUGHT about hitting me, I would be gone." I was very disdainful of women in abusive relationships and completely adamant that I would never end up in one. Just a few short years later I spent 2 years in an abusive relationship and I learned firsthand just how it can happen. 

I think cults (this one and others) are somewhat similar in that they don't start out feeling like cults and then people get in too deep without ever realizing it. 

Yes, you have to boil the frog slowly or else it doesn't work.

Sorry you had to go through that Sally! <<hugs>>

[seattlechic]

I'm DYING here!!! I want to watch this show so baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad

[Peas n carrots]

*Tin Foil Hat On* see I've heard of tumors Tommy Davis is really Suri's father. There is a strong resemblance, but then again Tommy and Tom look quite a bit alike as well.

[ChunkyBarbie]

I've always wondered why Tom seemed to let Suri go, but boy, he made sure he had Isabella and Connor. It can't just be because  Katie's dad is a lawyer,  she got Suri. I've often wondered if Katie got Suri because she agreed to be silent about Tom or some scandal.  

 

Tin foil hats, activate!

[DaniLouisiana]

I don't think Nicole Kidman was able to fight for her kids as well as Katie Holmes was. I read somewhere, that the time Nicole was handed papers, she had recently lost a baby...so she was not in a state of mind or wellness to fight Tom. Katie had all of her ducks in a row before she served him papers.

[Coy Koi]

On 11/30/2016 at 4:10 PM, Grimalkin said:

    I missed the first 20 minutes. I found this fascinating. I just looked at the page they created to refute her. http://www.leahreminiaftermath.com/ It seems like current Scientologists are the intended audience. Having such a famous member must of shook up a lot of members, rumors and speculation travel fast. Damage control.

This page is ridiculous! They cherry-pick a critical sentence, or partial sentence, from reviews about the quality of the production. And of course they don't link to the full reviews they're quoting. Not a single quote they provide actually disagrees with any of the message. Only that the show is "repetitive" or whatever. Okay, that might be useful information for some casual viewer who is deciding between watching that show or a different show. It's not (and is clearly not intended to be) evidence of Scientology actually being super awesome. What a joke.

[Jucifer]

2 hours ago, Coy Koi said:

This page is ridiculous! They cherry-pick a critical sentence, or partial sentence, from reviews about the quality of the production. And of course they don't link to the full reviews they're quoting. Not a single quote they provide actually disagrees with any of the message. Only that the show is "repetitive" or whatever. Okay, that might be useful information for some casual viewer who is deciding between watching that show or a different show. It's not (and is clearly not intended to be) evidence of Scientology actually being super awesome. What a joke.

It is ridiculous.

That page is so badly written that I feel sorry for the writer. That's really saying something because I'm a rotten writer too.  It takes one to know one...

One outright lie that I spotted immediately was this: 

"Leah Remini is in it for the money and now tries to pretend otherwise. Her claim on Today that, “I’m not going to get a dime,” as executive producer of her new reality TV show is disingenuous. Ms. Remini obviously is being compensated for this show, just as she profited from her book."

*Sigh*

When she said "I'm not going to get a dime.", she was talking about her lawsuit against the COS, not the money she earned from making the TV series or the book.

I hope the poor intern who had the thankless task of writing that sh*t didn't have to suffer any consequences.

I also hope that in this day and age we are finally seeing the end of these cults.   It's the 21st century you guys, don't we have more important things to do ? 

[16strong]

1 hour ago, DaniLouisiana said:

I don't think Nicole Kidman was able to fight for her kids as well as Katie Holmes was. I read somewhere, that the time Nicole was handed papers, she had recently lost a baby...so she was not in a state of mind or wellness to fight Tom. Katie had all of her ducks in a row before she served him papers.

While this is true, Scientology is well known for its letigiousness. To make my point, HBO hired 160(!) lawyers to produce Going Clear. If Tom wanted to get sole custody of Suri and ruin Katie, he likely could have. But he didn't. And as far as I know, Miscavige didn't pressure him, either. Isn't that odd? I really do think that Katie has major dirt on TC, which is why Scientology has left well enough alone. They don't want anything happening to their star player, or a scandal decimating their already ravaged reputation.

[DaniLouisiana]

Scientology and other cults that hang out on college campuses are the major reason I did not want my daughter to go "away" to college. She's very book smart and has absolutely no common sense. Her religion is whatever the newest flames is...she could very easily be sucked into Scientology, even though she has been told her entire life, " you stay the hell away from those people." 

Hubs and I were given some sessions as wedding gifts by the Scientology relatives (I hadn't divorced them yet). I am proud to say we were escorted out for asking too many questions.

[mirele]

On 11/29/2016 at 8:53 PM, KZK said:

I became a critic of $cn 20 years ago, when I first read about the death of Lisa McPherson.  21 years ago today, Lisa was in the process of losing her mind and dying while locked in a hotel room by her "friends" at Co$ headquarters in Clearwater, FL. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_McPherson

It is unbelievably wonderful to see people like Leah, Mike Rinder, Mark Rathbun, Amy Scobee, and other former $cns not only leaving but speaking out. I believe every word they say about the abuses they witnessed, suffered, and committed. What they're doing now is really courageous and impressive.

As Arnie Lerma first said long ago: Scientology is worse than you think.  Even when you think you've heard the worst . . . there's more. 20 years on, I'm still learning of worse.

A&E will probably make the show viewable on their web site: http://www.aetv.com/shows/leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath (they also have the letters Co$ sent attacking Leah and the other participants).

 

When I first got involved in protesting Scientology at the beginning of 1995, I knew none of this.  All I knew is that Scientology was trying to shut down our Usenet playground for publishing their sooper sekrit sakrid skripchers (which cost several hundred thousand dollars to read as a "church" member back in the day). I read more, I learned more, but I never, *ever* in my entire life thought a TV channel would give over time for an eight part series, helmed by a former celebrity Scientologist. Back in the day, Scientology had so many friends and so many "ins" with government and suchlike, such exposure of Scientology's evil deeds just didn't seem possible.

I don't have cable, but A&E has the first episode up at the link and you can watch it there.  I knew a lot of the stuff in it, but I still cried seeing Amy Scobee and all the crap the "church" put her and her family through. I can't wait for the rest of the episodes. It's amazing how the passage of time has turned Scientology from "weird, but a lot of Hollywood types are into it" to "Scientology, isn't that where they lock you up?"

[K'Z'K]

9 minutes ago, mirele said:

I never, *ever* in my entire life thought a TV channel would give over time for an eight part series, helmed by a former celebrity Scientologist.

I remember you from a.r.s. (the internet is such a weirdly small place sometimes!) If someone had told us then that Mike "Rinderpest" Rinder would someday be an outspoken critic--and be one of *many* former dedicated $cns to do so--we would have thought they'd gotten into LRH's stash of pinks and greys. Yet here we are.

I'm still waiting on my check from Eli Lilly  

 

[seattlechic]

Finally getting through the episode. So far, nothing I did not already know after years of following Tony Ortega's underground bunker, Mike Rinder and others. BUT, the cool thing here is that A&E reaches a loooooot of people. 

[Jucifer]

One night in the 80s I stopped off after work to fill my car with gas. 

2 women approached me while I was pumping and started giving me the Scientology spiel.

They asked me if I had heard of Scientology and I said yeah. They asked me what I thought about it and I said "it's a cult".  They weren't happy to hear that. 

One of them said something like 'John Travolta is a scientologist.  Do you think someone like him would join a cult?'  

Yes, absolutely I said.

They chose the wrong person to pick on that night.

I'm dedicating this song to you, LRH.  

 

[SamiKatz]

On 12/1/2016 at 0:42 PM, Cleopatra7 said:

There are still people at the Crown Princess Marie Chantal celebrity gossip board who are "Team Pillow" (I.e. think Katie Holmes faked her pregnancy with a pillow) or think that Suri's real father was one of Katie's exes. I think Suri looks just like Tom Cruise, and I think that if she wasn't his daughter, some Scientology defector would have said so by now.

 

I think Suri looks like William Mapother (Ethan from Lost, and Tom's cousin).  I've always thought that Suri might be his as Tom's first wife said he couldn't have kids (long before he was super famous)

I also think Connor Cruise really looks like Tom, so I do wonder about that.

That Scientology is allowed to exist is really interesting to me.  It's pretty obvious that something hinky is going on, yet there is very little government or law enforcement pushback.  I find that very curious and can only assume Scientology has some friends in very high places.