"RadicalFemininity," a treasure trove of fundie cliches

[Cleopatra7]

11 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

Soooo... my take on this is that God is weaker than the people who invented birth control. God decides that this couple should have a baby, but the people who invented birth control have the last word. Nyah nyah. Drug industry can prevent God's will from happening.

That sort of God seems quite ineffective.

Does she realize how many fertilized eggs don't get implanted or abort spontaneously with or without birth control.

Also from a medical perspective (which these people obviously reject), pregnancy doesn't start until implantation, not fertilization. At times, it seems like anti-abortion people really believe in Aristotle's homunculus, in which a tiny, fully formed human (default male, of course) is implanted into the womb and just grows to normal newborn size for nine months, completely ignoring modern knowledge of fetal development.

[jozina]

The idea of reading the Narnia book and heading to beastiality is hilarious. I'm sure the fan fiction or porn of it exists but sheesh people!  Fundies sure do think about sex a lot more than anyone else.

What horrific views about birth control.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Did anyone find any thoughts on condoms? Natural family planning? Pull out method? I'm just curious because they seem to hate on female birth control so much.

[ViolaSebastian]

19 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

Also from a medical perspective (which these people obviously reject), pregnancy doesn't start until implantation, not fertilization. At times, it seems like anti-abortion people really believe in Aristotle's homunculus, in which a tiny, fully formed human (default male, of course) is implanted into the womb and just grows to normal newborn size for nine months, completely ignoring modern knowledge of fetal development.

Gets me every time...

 

[Seahorse Wrangler]

2 hours ago, Lurky said:

What is it with fundies and their absolute inability to understand the very basic notion of consent?

I'm beginning to think they imagine consent takes out God somehow..

 

It's kind of like God gets to have the last decision on everything so (general) you don't matter in the grand scheme of things

[Rachel333]

I've got to say, I wish people wouldn't make comments like this one, which is pretty obviously someone who came from FJ. It just doesn't do anyone any good.

She's also not the one who wrote about birth control anyway, it was her mother.

[Seahorse Wrangler]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

So did they send their kids to a Waldorf school and the school reported them for neglect? 

 

The commentator even managed to spell the word wrong.

antroprosophy rather than anthroposophy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthroposophy

[dianapavelovna]

This family & their ilk seem to have a Zsuzsanna Anderson view of medical care: bad and forbidden until I have serious complications in pregnancy, then send money to pay the bills.

I fell down the rabbit hole of the Hebrew Hillbillies blog, which is mostly just a newsy family journal. But here's a few bits that stood out to me.

In a post from 2014, there are pictures from a pro-Israel rally they went to, including of pro-Palestine counter-protesters. It appears they were peaceful and stopped to pray as a group late in the rally. But Sarah writes this:

Quote

There was one really memorable time at this rally.  I turned around when I heard my father speaking to someone.  He was speaking to a father who had two children, a boy and a girl who looked like they might be 10 and 12.  He told Abba how they had been chickens and stayed on the other side (far away from the pro-Palestinian rally).  But, he decided to bring his children over to see this counter-rally.  I do not think that I will ever forget those children's faces ... they stood there and just stared.  They looked shocked.  I wonder if they had ever seen anything like that before ... probably not.  As my father and the other father were talking, my father shared how it was so good that those children were seeing this.  He said that for awhile those children will obey what their father says, but at some point, they are going to have to make decisions for themselves.  They needed to see the difference between Hamas and Israel.

Not sure what would be shocking about a peaceful counter-protest...except the idea that there are people with different opinions than you, which likely would be a shock to sheltered fundie children, now that I think of it.

The same post talks about typical fundie hobbies: doing Bible study at the local jail and harassing women outside an abortion clinic.

Almost three years ago, Clinton & Sharon, the couple who recently had the twins, had a son who was stillborn. See here.

Curious about how this family supports themselves. Just through the dog breeding & other cottage industries? Does the father work? They (all or just a few of them) seem to periodically jet off to Israel for weeks or months to...do something.

ETA I think this is their church, faith community, whatever.

[MarblesMom]

"I beseech you to remove the instrument of death from your arm."

Ay Dios Mio, mija.

That "instrument" might just keep her alive, instead of having pregnancy after pregnancy.  Heck, it might improve sexy time since she might be more "available" not having to worry about the NEXT "blessing."  

** Additional thought, have you ever "beseeched" someone?  Pretty sure I have not.  

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, Rachel333 said:

I've got to say, I wish people wouldn't make comments like this one, which is pretty obviously someone who came from FJ. It just doesn't do anyone any good.

She's also not the one who wrote about birth control anyway, it was her mother.

I must be missing something - why do you this this was someone from here?

[foreign fundie]

2 hours ago, MarblesMom said:

"I beseech you to remove the instrument of death from your arm."

Ay Dios Mio, mija.

That "instrument" might just keep her alive, instead of having pregnancy after pregnancy.  Heck, it might improve sexy time since she might be more "available" not having to worry about the NEXT "blessing."  

** Additional thought, have you ever "beseeched" someone?  Pretty sure I have not.  

I would not call it an 'instrument if death' but I would personally hesitate to use this methode for ethical reasons. There are just some unanswered questions in my mind about how it works and what the effects are on an unborn child if a pregnancy does happen.

However, I have no doubt in my mind that this mum is right in trying to prevent a pregnancy. If there was an ethical concern, there are methods that have zero chance of damaging a fertilised egg or a developing baby. 

And honestly, if having kids would kill her or the baby, and the couple has ELEVEN already, why doesn't the guy man up and have his business sorted? Male sterilisation is quick, safe and effective. No hormones, no possible very early abortions and no worries.

 

[Anonymousguest]

So abortifacients are bad, which is ok, though I think the incidence of both ovulation suppression failing, and thickening of the cervical mucous failing so that a fertilized egg doesn't implant is highly over estimated. I think it's more of a theoretical problem. 

I'm sure they have problems with all forms of birth control. I had my tubes tied because of a possibly fatal issue. My husband and I decided it was better for our family to have a healthy mother  than more children. I'm pretty sure all my children would agree too. But I was told directly to my face that I was in sin because I wasn't trusting God. At the time it was one of the most hurtful things I'd been told. I wanted more babies, I hated that I was in that position, but a series of events and complications led us to feel like it was the clear and obvious choice. I cried for a year over the loss of future babies. I gave every effort, and plenty of room for God to work for a different outcome. But sometimes he really does have people deliver at hospitals, and tells then to stop having babies. Now, many years out from that I feel more secure in that, and am disgusted, not inspired by women who risk their lives to have more babies. And I despise women like this. I bet she really loves Nancy Campbell, Hebrew roots and all. They are even in TN together. It looks like.

[ADoyle90815]

5 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Did anyone find any thoughts on condoms? Natural family planning? Pull out method? I'm just curious because they seem to hate on female birth control so much.

Maybe this family says that "every sperm is sacred" so condoms, NFP, the pull-out method and vasectomies are all sins.

[lawfulevil]

Fundie Sex Education**

1. You can't have sex outside of marriage. If you're a widow in a sect where widows cannot remarry, too bad.

2. All sex must be potentially procreative.

2a. Old people having sex doesn't count because Sarah/Isaac.

3. Sex solely for pleasure is a sin, which covers everything but penis-in-vagina.

(2,3) 4. Sexual pleasure for a woman, since it doesn't change the fact that conception is possible*, is unnecessary and perhaps even sinful.

*4a. Unless you're the kind of fundie who thinks conception from rape is impossible because the woman has to be into it. She's still in sin, though, unless her rapist was her husband, in which case it doesn't count.

(2,3) 5. Sexual pleasure for a man is important because male orgasm leads directly to conception.

6. But no matter what, you can't deny your husband sex, because that's a sin.

7. Presumably, separating from your abusive husband would count as "denying him sex", so that's not an option.

(7) 8. If separation is out, divorce is definitely out.

(6) 9. Ceasing sexual activity for almost any reason counts as "denying your husband sex". Possibly acceptable for shark week or pregnancy (2).

(2) 10. Continuing to have sex while using birth control (hormonal OR barrier) is wrong because all sex must be potentially procreative.

10a. Ignore the fact that if a deity can knock up a 90 year old woman, the Pill doesn't seem much of an obstacle...

10b. Male birth control methods are extra sinful because the almighty Peen.

So what's left when sex is dangerous or deadly, whether it's due to a bad man or a risky pregnancy?

(1-10) The only Godly option for a woman is to die.

11. But don't worry, you'll promptly be blamed for your own death. Really Godly women don't die, that means you were in sin.

**Totally devoid of actual sex education!

[AmazonGrace]

 

So you can't deny him sex for any reason because that would be unsubmissive. 

But you can't give him sex if you're unclean (if we're into Judaism I take it that we also stick to the Old testament rules about menstruation and cleansing afterwards). 

But if you don't give him sex it might lead to no pregnancy.  (Some Orthodox Jew women have problems with religious infertility due to their menstrual cycle and uncleanliness period colliding.) 

If you don't  get pregnant as often as humanly possible your spermless womb is baby murderer.

 

Oh what to do. Whether to obey God's rules or to obey God's rules.

 

 

 

 

 

[foreign fundie]

54 minutes ago, lawfulevil said:

Fundie Sex Education**

1. You can't have sex outside of marriage. If you're a widow in a sect where widows cannot remarry, too bad.

2. All sex must be potentially procreative.

2a. Old people having sex doesn't count because Sarah/Isaac.

3. Sex solely for pleasure is a sin, which covers everything but penis-in-vagina.

(2,3) 4. Sexual pleasure for a woman, since it doesn't change the fact that conception is possible*, is unnecessary and perhaps even sinful.

*4a. Unless you're the kind of fundie who thinks conception from rape is impossible because the woman has to be into it. She's still in sin, though, unless her rapist was her husband, in which case it doesn't count.

(2,3) 5. Sexual pleasure for a man is important because male orgasm leads directly to conception.

6. But no matter what, you can't deny your husband sex, because that's a sin.

7. Presumably, separating from your abusive husband would count as "denying him sex", so that's not an option.

(7) 8. If separation is out, divorce is definitely out.

(6) 9. Ceasing sexual activity for almost any reason counts as "denying your husband sex". Possibly acceptable for shark week or pregnancy (2).

(2) 10. Continuing to have sex while using birth control (hormonal OR barrier) is wrong because all sex must be potentially procreative.

10a. Ignore the fact that if a deity can knock up a 90 year old woman, the Pill doesn't seem much of an obstacle...

10b. Male birth control methods are extra sinful because the almighty Peen.

So what's left when sex is dangerous or deadly, whether it's due to a bad man or a risky pregnancy?

(1-10) The only Godly option for a woman is to die.

11. But don't worry, you'll promptly be blamed for your own death. Really Godly women don't die, that means you were in sin.

**Totally devoid of actual sex education!

I was going to print this out for my daughter's biologly homeschool class, buy then realised you forgot the lego part. 

[Lurky]

@Anonymousguest I'm so sorry people were so awful to you.  I'm sure that was a horrible decision to have to make, but that your family are so grateful to have you around.

[Rachel333]

7 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I must be missing something - why do you this this was someone from here?

It was posted last night on the most recent post on the site, which is a pretty innocuous post about a coffee mug exchange, and the birth control post the commenter references is almost three years old. It would be a huge coincidence if someone who didn't read FJ made that comment right after we discussed the post on FJ.

[meee]

This blog is seriously bizarre.

[smittykins]

10c: If God can cause a virgin to conceive, the Pill doesn't seem like much of an obstacle.(Also see the TV series I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant .)

[polecat]

55 minutes ago, smittykins said:

10c: If God can cause a virgin to conceive, the Pill doesn't seem like much of an obstacle.(Also see the TV series I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant .)

 

Right? Lots of women get pregnant on the pill, on depo, on condoms -- virtually every birth control option has a failure rate (other than something like hysterectomy). So if God wants you to be pregnant, you'd think you'd BE pregnant. A little thing like a vasectomy (and I've heard of vasectomy babies, too) or birth control pills isn't going to stop him.

[Rachel333]

10 hours ago, dianapavelovna said:

In a post from 2014, there are pictures from a pro-Israel rally they went to, including of pro-Palestine counter-protesters. It appears they were peaceful and stopped to pray as a group late in the rally. But Sarah writes this:

Quote

 As my father and the other father were talking, my father shared how it was so good that those children were seeing this.  He said that for awhile those children will obey what their father says, but at some point, they are going to have to make decisions for themselves.

 

That bit is interesting, considering that they don't seem to want the same thing for their own children.

I'm curious how they support themselves too. They talk about staying 6 months in Israel on tourist visas and not being able to work, so how did they afford to take the whole family to and from Israel and spend 6 months not working?

[BackseatMom]

Whew, that blog is nuts. I'm not really a fan of messianic churches to begin with, but I didn't even know they came in this ridiculous fundy flavor.

Also, they seem to say some variation of "I'm not judging you and everyone, god just told me I am right. That's all. If you don't care about god, then do what you want." Every other post. Its tedious and off putting.

[Jellybean]

14 hours ago, Bethella said:

I just have to say I loved "24 Hours in A & E" but I was really annoyed they only showed the first season here in the US (on BBC America).

I loved that program too! The first few series were filmed at my local hospital and then they moved to one of the other London major trauma centres (at which point I lost interest!).

@mango_fandango Are we almost neighbours?!

[JMarie]

http://hebrewhillbillies.blogspot.com/2014/01/a-month-in-review-january.html

Quote

We hung out and fellowshipped with one another, after the funeral at our house.

Quote

After a little bit, Clinton got up and wanted to dance.  We all got up and danced with him.  But to tell the truth, it was a very interesting feeling.  I told a friend that we had been mourning, and you don't normally dance when you are sad.  My friend replied and said, "I am so so thankful to Yahweh that He has been guiding you along this sad season of life and has strengthened  you through it all, and that you all have chosen to trust in Him and praised Him through this time, which to the rest of the world is something crazy and ridiculous because how are you going to dance when your baby just died, but it is ultimately Yahweh who gives and takes like you said and we as His children and servants will take both good and bad, and praise His blessed Name!"  Her words are so true ... we were moving on ... we were praising YHWH who is so good and who is so worthy of all of our praise.

Fundies dancing??  At a funeral??

And kudos to her for recalling verbatim her friend's 94 word comment about the funeral.