"RadicalFemininity," a treasure trove of fundie cliches

[AmazonGrace]

 

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 My daughter recently read a comment in which the author discussed her birth complications and stated “My baby and I would have most certainly died if not for ultrasounds and C-sections.”  This is what I mean by limiting the Heavenly Father and putting our trust in the system.  Our Heavenly Father takes good care of us and He does not need the medical system to aid Him.

Hm I wonder why our Heavenly Father did a much worse job in taking care of mothers in childbirth before the advent of modern medicine, judging by the mortality rates. I bet they prayed tons way back when.

And there is really little to no evidence that ultrasounds present any great danger to a fetus.

[FundieWatcher]

Ok, so this bible verse says babies develop in secret. It doesn't say it must stay a secret. The Psalms are poems correct? They wouldn't have anything to do with God's law anyway? 

Her level of ignorance is insane! She is not a credit to evangelical homeschooling. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, Rachel333 said:

I was just looking at the comments on the twins post. Someone commented, "Did that poor woman not get any prenatal care? How terrifying." Here's Hannah's response:

I have never before heard of someone refusing ultrasounds because the Bible says babies are formed in secret. That is a totally new one to me. I really don't get that logic at all.

Here's the part of Psalm 139 that she's referring to.

KJV:

NIV:

Obviously this was written before ultrasounds, but I don't see anything that suggests that ultrasounds are wrong! This is just bizarre.

And while the mother and babies are fine now, I think the fact that it was twins and that the mother had two emergency trips to the hospital due to complications after the birth suggests that prenatal care would have been a good idea. I wonder how bad the complications must have been if she, someone who rejected medical care to the extent of not even knowing that she was having twins, went to the hospital twice.

The twins' names, by the way, are Chavah and Hoshiana.

Edit: Oh jeez, I stopped reading there and came over to post because I was so shocked about it, but there's more.

Another comment: "So she was in labour few weeks before due date and instead going to hospital they’ve called your mother? That’s so irresponsible. How would they feel If anything went wrong? I will never understand some peope."

Hannah's response:

 

She says, "do you know how many mamas and babies die or are injured in hospitals?" 

 

Omg her ignorance is causing me contact embarrassment! She sounds like a child afraid to go to the doctor. Of course lots of women and babies die in hospitals! That's where you go when you are extremely ill or give birth. You aren't going to stay home if you have pre eclampsia or are hemorrhaging. That's like saying, "do you know how many car accidents take place on roads?!? That's why you should always avoid roads and only drive in pastures!" 

Her critical thinking skills are non existent. 

[Childless]

4 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

She says, "do you know how many mamas and babies die or are injured in hospitals?" 

 

Omg her ignorance is causing me contact embarrassment! She sounds like a child afraid to go to the doctor. Of course lots of women and babies die in hospitals! That's where you go when you are extremely ill or give birth. You aren't going to stay home if you have pre eclampsia or are hemorrhaging. That's like saying, "do you know how many car accidents take place on roads?!? That's why you should always avoid roads and only drive in pastures!" 

Her critical thinking skills are non existent. 

Thank you!  I was just going to post this.  No one (with a brain anyway) is going to try a home birth with a high risk pregnancy.  Those women birth in a hospital.  Home births are only done by women who've had normal, uneventful pregnancies.  If something does go wrong, where to they go to finish delivering?  A hospital!  So naturally, there is going to be less injury and death for home births than for hospital births. 

I think we should start a discussion on public schools, somewhere this person obviously needs to go because whatever it is she's getting at home, it's not an education.

[AmazonGrace]

Actually I think several studies have found more risk of injury and death in home births, not less. It depends on the location and on the characteristics of the population. It's fairly safe if it's a  low risk mother who got adequate prenatal care and is attended by a professional midwife and happens within a short distance from a hospital if things go wrong. There are countries in which home births are pretty frequent (I want to say Holland but don't quote me on this) and it usually goes well because  the midwives know their business, the prenatal care is excellent, and everyone lives close to a hospital .

But if  you don't get prenatal care you may not have any idea if you're a low risk mother or not. If you are afraid of health care professionals and are attended to by your grandmother who is an expert because she gave birth, if you don't call 911 at the first sign of a problem  because hospitals are evil places... those home births can't help being more risky. JMO.

[Shiny]

Women like this are why fundies need more education, and lessons in debate. The United States has a staggering maternal death rate. This is a legitimate concern and should be taken very seriously. There are loads of statistics out there relating to maternal death, c-sections, natural birth, home birth...the list goes on and on. But this woman doesn't know any of that so her only response can be "hospitals are bad, m'kay." She could have such a great audience and forum to explain WHY they are "bad" and what can be done to improve those statistics. 

[PennySycamore]

@AmazonGrace, you are correct that the Netherlands has a very high rate of homebirths or at least they used to.  I think that homebirth is less common in Holland than it used to be.

ETA:  I'd be dead if I'd not had medical care when I was born as I had severe Rh disease.  I spent three weeks in the hospital and had several (3?) complete blood exchanges.  Oh, and my mom had her tubes tied after I was born because if she'd had another baby it likely would not have survived.

[Showtunesgirl]

3 hours ago, QuiverFullOfTacos said:

My rule of thumb: If you have to repeatedly mention how "classy" someone/something is, it probably isn't.

THIS!!! Exactly what I think. 

Also, re: Narnia it makes me sad when even Narnia is put on the no-no list. There is something to be said for the beauty of imagination, and the fact that exposure to fantasy can enhance our understanding of reality.

[FundieWatcher]

1 hour ago, PennySycamore said:

 I'd be dead if I'd not had medical care when I was born as I had severe Rh disease.

According to this chick you don't know that you would be dead. And you are showing a complete lack of faith in God by saying that. 

[Rachel333]

Oh goodness, I was looking through the blog of someone who commented on the radicalfemininity site and... actual blackface. They were missionaries in Kenya for a few years and in this post there are kids in various costumes, including one kid dressed as a Masai.

http://manyweavers.blogspot.com/2015/04/19-years.html

[Loveday]

6 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

Oh goodness, I was looking through the blog of someone who commented on the radicalfemininity site and... actual blackface. They were missionaries in Kenya for a few years and in this post there are kids in various costumes, including one kid dressed as a Masai.

http://manyweavers.blogspot.com/2015/04/19-years.html

And not one commenter seemed to think there is a problem with this.  

[Rachel333]

Here's Hannah's thoughts on homosexual marriage: http://radicalfemininity.com/2015/06/30/what-does-the-bible-say

Quote

The purpose of this post is not to say: you’re in sin if you’re celebrating the Supreme Court decision.

The purpose of this post is to say: if you’re going to celebrate it, don’t call yourself a Christian or claim to be a follower of the God of the Bible.

And then her response to one of the comments

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It appears that you believe that same sex relationships are okay as long as they’re “loving, committed and monogamous” … in order to be consistent, you must believe that bestiality is acceptable too, as long as it’s loving, committed and monogamous.

You say you believe in human rights, so let’s go back to the example that I gave in the article. Why can it not be a human right that if you really don’t like someone and want to get rid of them, you can kill them? Human rights must be defined by the Bible and when they’re not (as we see today) we become a very immoral society. Homosexuality has nothing to do with human rights and everything to do with sin and perversion of of the Creator’s law and order. It would be just like someone saying that rape is their “human right” because it makes them feel good or happy or fulfilled. This type of mindset is sick and wicked.

I don't think logic is her strong suit,

[Lurky]

What is it with fundies and their absolute inability to understand the very basic notion of consent?

[Rachel333]

Ugh, this is awful. This is from the post on having kids: http://radicalfemininity.com/2014/01/31/enjoy-the-adventure-have-children/#comments

One commenter says that after 11 (!) children she started using birth control due to potentially fatal complications during her last two pregnancies.

Quote

As a mom to 11 children, I’d like to say that I always had your point of view about birth control, until I developed a potentially fatal condition during my tenth pregnancy and again after my 11th was born. I agree that you must be educated about what the birth control actually does, but sometimes God may have a different plan for you. I wrote about it if you’re interested …

Apparently that's not a good enough reason, because here is the reply.

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Thank you for writing and sharing. I did read your post and have to admit that it grieved me terribly to read of the justification of turning your womb from a place of life……to a place of death for any unborn child. I beseech you to remove the instrument of death from your arm. You may have been told that the implant in your arm will either prevent ovulation … or cause the cervical mucous to thicken, making it more difficult for the sperm to fertilize the egg … thus creating a new human life. Unfortunately, most people do not realize that there is a third way that this implant works. It alters the lining of the uterus … often causing the new human to not be able to implant in the way our God designed things. It then causes an abortion … death to the new baby.

Secondly, having lived through two potentially fatal situations myself, I refuse to give doctors such a place of authority in my life……to use fear to influence my future. I encourage you to examine which god you serve. My God, the God of the Bible, YHWH, instructed His people not to sacrifice their children to other gods; Leviticus 18:21 and Leviticus 20:2-5. Since the god you are giving credit to condones an abortifacient, I highly encourage you to change gods. My desire is for your good and blessing. Please forgive any of my words that may appear hard.

There are certain things that I feel strongly about, or should I say, that I have a conviction about. Trusting in a medical opinion over the desires of the Heavenly Father is one of them. I simply can not go there … nor can I condone any “so-called birth control” that can cause an abortion. May the Heavenly Father and His precious Son lead and guide you as you seek Them in Spirit and in Truth.

 

[FundieWatcher]

15 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

Secondly, having lived through two potentially fatal situations myself, I refuse to give doctors such a place of authority in my life……to use fear to influence my future. I encourage you to examine which god you serve.

She also won't be leaving 11children motherless if she dies.  How selfish is this lady not to see the difference between herself and a mother of 11? 

[Destiny]

Oh for fuck's sake. I hate people like this. God gave doctors wisdom to help you make decent decisions. Who are you to ignore god working through a medical professional to keep you safe, happy, and healthy? ARGH!!!!

[Bethella]

11 hours ago, mango_fandango said:

Exactly! What happens in hospitals ISN'T nice, but that's a dumb reason to avoid them. There's a programme here called "24 Hours in A and E" and it's bizarrely fascinating. (Not just because it's filmed at my local hospital. A and E being what you call the ER). People on there suffer horrific injuries, like falling 30+ feet, and you wonder if they're going to survive. Then they have little interviews at the end where they've not only survived but are thriving.

Without hospitals, my father would've likely died five years ago. As it is, he's still around, just waiting for a kidney transplant. 

I just have to say I loved "24 Hours in A & E" but I was really annoyed they only showed the first season here in the US (on BBC America).

[vspielman]

1 hour ago, Loveday said:

And not one commenter seemed to think there is a problem with this.  

 

2 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

Oh goodness, I was looking through the blog of someone who commented on the radicalfemininity site and... actual blackface. They were missionaries in Kenya for a few years and in this post there are kids in various costumes, including one kid dressed as a Masai.

http://manyweavers.blogspot.com/2015/04/19-years.html

My god, it's Kid Farm!!  The episode where the Asian foster kid comes to visit, but he was supposed to be black, so the family put together a hideously racist welcome skit, complete with Ma Duggar wearing an african outfit, using a hand drum and carrying a basketball, (which she hands to the black member of the family). 

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, Rachel333 said:

turning your womb from a place of life……to a place of death

I for one am thrilled with my womb of death. For starters I don't end up with kids I can't care for, but also, it comes in super handy at Halloween because I don't have to worry about a costume since my uterus is already going as a cemetery. 

How cut off from society are these people that they didn't realize black face was bad?! 

[Rachel333]

The mother also wrote a post on how to submit when you think your husband is being unreasonable. http://radicalfemininity.com/2015/05/16/honoring-husbands/#comments

There was a commenter who disagrees with her husband (I don't really understand the story).

Quote

Thanks to my husband who wanted to send his children to a waldorf school we are now facing charges of child neglect and over 10.000 dollars in debt.
But he alone is to blame. He did not hear my advise. He stood next to me when i managed to escape the clutches of antroprosophy. Yet he send my 4 precious children into that hell.
i do not obey him anymore, he has lost my trust. A mother knows her children best.

Annie's reply:

Quote

Wow, I am so sorry to hear about your heartache. May our heavenly Father help your family draw close to Him. You mentioned you were delivered from “antroprosophy”. What is your religious view now? Is Jesus (we call Him by His Hebrew name, Yeshua) your savior? I hope so! What do you want for your children?

My concern for you is that I have never read in the Bible where we have an “option” to submit or not to submit to our husbands when we don’t like their choices. Your rebellion (I am saying this, if indeed you say you are a follower of Yeshua) to the clear scriptural command of submission to your husband, along with your bitterness and unforgiveness, is doing much more damage to your children than the Waldorf school. You are not giving them a true example of the Kingdom of the heavenly Father. How will they know to choose love if they have no example of it?

I am not saying I support the Waldorf school in any way, but the heavenly Father did allow Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego to be taken into a pagan kingdom at a young age for His purposes. Also little Samuel was taken into the care of Eli at a young age … although Eli did a horrible job raising his own sons in righteousness.

If you want to give your children the blessing of living in righteousness and truth, you need to give them the example by living it yourself. If you choose to go against what the heavenly Father is asking of you … what are you so upset with your husband about? May our heavenly Father help you all and draw each one of you closer to His heart and minister to each of your needs. With love, Annie

Can you imagine if it were the husband wanting to homeschool the children and the mother wanting to send them to school? I'm pretty sure in that case she wouldn't be comparing school outside the home to God sending men abroad.

It's like they think that the man is always right just by virtue of being a man.

[AmazonGrace]

Quote

It alters the lining of the uterus … often causing the new human to not be able to implant in the way our God designed things. It then causes an abortion … death to the new baby.

Soooo... my take on this is that God is weaker than the people who invented birth control. God decides that this couple should have a baby, but the people who invented birth control have the last word. Nyah nyah. Drug industry can prevent God's will from happening.

That sort of God seems quite ineffective.

Does she realize how many fertilized eggs don't get implanted or abort spontaneously with or without birth control.

[lawfulevil]

That's exactly what they think. It's like rock paper scissors but with only two options (that they acknowledge). Penis ALWAYS beats Vagina and that's just the end of it.

[naatashamaru]

8 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

I was just looking at the comments on the twins post. Someone commented, "Did that poor woman not get any prenatal care? How terrifying." Here's Hannah's response:

I have never before heard of someone refusing ultrasounds because the Bible says babies are formed in secret. That is a totally new one to me. I really don't get that logic at all.

Here's the part of Psalm 139 that she's referring to.

KJV:

NIV:

Obviously this was written before ultrasounds, but I don't see anything that suggests that ultrasounds are wrong! This is just bizarre.

And while the mother and babies are fine now, I think the fact that it was twins and that the mother had two emergency trips to the hospital due to complications after the birth suggests that prenatal care would have been a good idea. I wonder how bad the complications must have been if she, someone who rejected medical care to the extent of not even knowing that she was having twins, went to the hospital twice.

The twins' names, by the way, are Chavah and Hoshiana.

Edit: Oh jeez, I stopped reading there and came over to post because I was so shocked about it, but there's more.

Another comment: "So she was in labour few weeks before due date and instead going to hospital they’ve called your mother? That’s so irresponsible. How would they feel If anything went wrong? I will never understand some peope."

Hannah's response:

 

that ain't right...just u,mmm....no

[formergothardite]

So did they send their kids to a Waldorf school and the school reported them for neglect? 

11 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

Thanks to my husband who wanted to send his children to a waldorf school we are now facing charges of child neglect

 

[lawfulevil]

I think that's part of what they find so threatening about gay marriage- if there's no automatic "penis > vagina" because there's 2 penises or 2 vaginas involved*, there's no automatic hierarchy. And if there's no automatic hierarchy, who submits to who? It depends? Nobody? Both people, alternately, sometimes? Well, if people can just make relationship decisions for themselves according to their needs, skills, and interests... MADNESS! FEMINISM!

And we all know where feminism leads. Blasphemy, and straight to Hell!!! Because it's like the Bible says, on the sixth day of Creation, God gave everyone who actually matters a penis.

That's right. Sorry, 97% of bird species, but God doesn't give a fuck what you think.

Female hyenas, though...

*Ignoring other cases because again, I don't think fundies would think about them.