RC Sproul Jr, 2016 MERGED

[punkiepie]

It appears that his older children have really distanced themselves from him and his new family.  I'm sure they've been humiliated by his behavior in private many times and maybe this was the final straw for them.  At least I hope so- they deserve a chance at a normal life.

[Howl]

14 hours ago, DomWackTroll said:

Vesta is all over their Facebook page right now, supporting Precious. 

Well of course she is.  It's important to celebrate milestone events in your son's life. Skating on a DWI with just probation and a felony tag ranks right up there near the top!  He needs her uncritical help and support now more than ever, and bless her heart, she's coming through!  #PreciousFelon #SoUnfair. 

[Howl]

The google, facebook and Precious are all up in my bidness.  This showed up in my facebook feed: 

[CyborgKin]

Why would God need me to defend his existence?  

[mirele]

The Wartburg ladies let Spanky have it on their blog today. Nothing we really don't already know, but TWW has a wide readership. 

Quote

RC Sproul Jr Is Now a Convicted Felon Alcoholic and Is One Step Away From a Tragedy

http://thewartburgwatch.com/2017/06/21/rc-sproul-jr-is-now-a-convicted-felon-alcoholic-and-is-one-step-away-from-a-tragedy/

They're not mincing words, either.

ETA MY BAD. I completely forgot about the letter from Mothers Against Drunk Driving. I hadn't seen that before.

[MamaJunebug]

The Wartburg Watch is discussing Spanky & his most recent bought-&-paid-for release. Distressing to see people getting all worked up on behalf of godly [their concept, not mine] RC, sr., and making liquor itself out to be the real culprit. SMH.

Althoigh I haven't checked in well over an hour. Clearer heads may be getting the points across better, now. 

[hoipolloi]

43 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

Clearer heads may be getting the points across better, now. 

They're trying, including one of the Deebs who survived a drunken driving crash that killed others, but a number of the commenters are still more interested in theological purity arguments and faux notions of free will, grace & mercy.

They don't understand that RC2 is a menace to himself and everyone else on the road at this point. If his probation terms do not include things like an ignition lock there's really nothing to stop him from doing the same or worse -- and without involuntary constraints, he WILL do the same or worse. 

[older than allosaurs]

It recently occurred to me that whatever else is revealed by RC II's legal saga, his two black sons, who I've assumed were the ones in the car since they're the youngest, have gotten an up-close-and-personal view of how white (affluent, male) privilege works.

[Howl]

Holy schmoley, that Wartburg Watch post is up to 635 comments.  Maybe I'll check in on it tomorrow.   Glarg.  I went there.  Several commenters are arguing with lengthy posts about who knows what.  I sure don't what their point is. 

And yes, @older than allosaurs, those boys are learning things that kids should never have to learn.

 

[hoipolloi]

Looks like Mrs. Spanky commented at WW in order to set things straight:

Quote

Rcjr had his license suspended for six months. Has been dry since Nov. 29, 2016. Had therapy and continues to do so. Much of the information posted is inaccurate both in substance and interpretation. When court go through process you are instructed by your Atty and the judge how to plea to give you time to look at all alternatives. Drug court was denied because he was not bad enough, not because he had felonies. The purpose of Drug court is for those charged w felonies to be submersed in a rehab program for 1-1.5yrs and graduate with the Judge being the one sharing that persons story and how he/she has been redeem and will acclimate as a reformed person in society- it’s a big deal. Then the sentencing happens afterward, moving felonies to misdemeanors. Rcjr is a gentle spirited man who loves his family and grieves over his sin. Everyone who knows him confesses how genuinely repentant of a person he is and how quick he is to admit his failures.
What he did was wrong and could have been much worse than it turned out to be. What it did do is wake him up to his own sins and cause effective change immediately. He who is without sin cast the first stone. It’s not about hypocrisy, it’s about the fact that we all have feet of clay and yet strive to do what is right, stumbling as we keep walking.

Other commenters, including at least one person who claims to have known RC2 previously , aren't having it:

Quote

 

You’ve been hoodwinked. Not that you’re to blame for it. Those of us who have practical life experience with alkies know they’re masters of deception, and it doesn’t get any more deceptive than faking humility, remorse and repentance, something that alkies often develop much practical experience with. “I’m so sorry, I promise I won’t ever do it again” is the first line of defense of the alky, no extra charge for the tears.

But some of us here also have not just experience with alkies in general. We also have personal experience with RC Jr. The problem with your narrative is we’ve seen it all before. Some of us have been on the receiving end of RC’s lies and manipulations, so it’s not just speculation. Some of us do know him, and some of us knew him far longer than you have. So it’s simply not true that “Everyone who knows him confesses how genuinely repentant…”

Here’s the pattern that’s been repeated many times over the years: RC commits some grievous transgression, gets busted, is held accountable, “confesses” and “repents,” but then is quickly shown to have simply used a show of confession and repentance as a means to an end. Televangelists and other huckster preachers have done it many times.

 

 

[Howl]

Ms. Spanky says:  "Has been dry since Nov. 29, 2016. Had therapy and continues to do so."

Wonder if he's doing Jesus counseling or real counseling?  How long will he stay dry now that the court date is over?  

"Drug court was denied because he was not bad enough, not because he had felonies."  

I think if Drug Court knew the whole story...RC is 50ish.  I assume he's been drinking to excess most of his adult life, so around 30 years.  If he stopped drinking at the end of last November, this is likely the longest and perhaps only period of sobriety as an adult.  And Lisa?  I don't believe this for a second.  

"What it did do is wake him up to his own sins and cause effective change immediately. He who is without sin cast the first stone. It’s not about hypocrisy, it’s about the fact that we all have feet of clay and yet strive to do what is right, stumbling as we keep walking."

It's like Lisa is pre-excusing RC's next lapse, while at the same time ignoring that RC has damaged a LOT of people with his alcohol abuse. I do wish sobriety for this man.  One thing that is important to understand about alcohol or drugs -- when a person is under the influence, no emotions are processed, no emotional growth takes place, no insights are available, no true remorse can be felt, nothing is truly experienced (like the death of a wife or child).  If RC continues to be sober, there is an astounding backlog of shit to be processed.  Sometimes when people stop drinking, they no longer know who they really are.  I hope they decide that investing in a good therapist or psychiatrist and outpatient rehab is as good an investment as a high-priced lawyer.  

Because I watch Dr. Phil when I can tolerate his "guests", I know that prolonged drug/alcohol abuse can compromise the frontal lobes of the brain, leading to poor impulse control.  Just sayin'.  This is a multi-faceted problem.  Jesus therapy won't cut it.  

And Lisa?  You need therapy too, desperately.  You married an alcoholic who was caught driving shit-faced drunk only two months or so after your marriage.  Your two young step-sons also need therapy, because they've been living with an alcoholic.  There's every possibility your identity is tied up in being the woman who can save this man -- that's a powerful feeling, but a dangerous one. So yeah, my prescription is family and individual therapy for the lot of you. 

 

[hoipolloi]

3 hours ago, Howl said:

And Lisa?  You need therapy too, desperately.  You married an alcoholic who was caught driving shit-faced drunk only two months or so after your marriage.  Your two young step-sons also need therapy, because they've been living with an alcoholic.  There's every possibility your identity is tied up in being the woman who can save this man -- that's a powerful feeling, but a dangerous one. So yeah, my prescription is family and individual therapy for the lot of you. 

You may be more right than you know. Check out this additional additional comment from Lisa:

Quote

 

In my professional life I both treat and work integratively healing disease with nutritional therapies- including those who have undergone transplants due to chronic substance abuse. I speak at CR on behalf of educating, as well as other community organizations supporting families such as AA.

You cannot change your past, nor can I, nor can Rcjr. Effecting change is a responsibility every person has no matter their role; whether victim, family member of a substance abuser or the one directly responsible. I am thankful for support, growth and change.

 

Sounds to me like not a fucking thing is being done to stop RC2 from drinking and driving again.

[Howl]

So if Lisa has this background with substance abusers, why did she marry RC?  Was it such a brief courtship that she didn't notice RC's drinking?

[Schmoopy]

I'm new here... but according to RC-Lisa's FB, Lisa's professional life as dietitian would have a large scope of patients and she's done it for over twenty years. Why is it so hard to believe she wouldn't have a positive influence on RC and his family? In all their pictures he looks like he's lost a lot of weight, looks happy, as do his kids. Am I missing something?

[Howl]

1 hour ago, Schmoopy said:

I'm new here... but according to RC-Lisa's FB, Lisa's professional life as dietitian would have a large scope of patients and she's done it for over twenty years. Why is it so hard to believe she wouldn't have a positive influence on RC and his family? In all their pictures he looks like he's lost a lot of weight, looks happy, as do his kids. Am I missing something?

All good points.  My question in response to your point is, how could a woman with 20 years professional experience not spot an alcoholic, or if she did, decide to marry him anyway?  Can a man who has a very long history of alcoholism who just dodged a bullet on going to prison for DUI really have a quick turn around?  RC has been married about a month when he was pulled over for DUI, and was so drunk he literally could not stand up.  With his two kids in the car.  He has a long and storied history of drinking.  If you aren't familiar with the RC story, you can begin at Spinderella Sproul blog: https://rc-sproul-jr.blogspot.com/  This web site has been tracking this issue since 2006. 

Maybe he has stopped drinking and they are all happier.   For those of us who have lived with an alcoholic,  it's easy to be cynical about superficial appearances. 

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, Schmoopy said:

Why is it so hard to believe she wouldn't have a positive influence on RC and his family?

 Leaving aside the dubious assertion that a dietitian is competent to deal with longstanding addiction & substance abuse, unless RC2 has been absolutely prevented from driving drunk, her "positive influence" is meaningless when it comes to public safety.

I see nothing in either the public records of  his court appearance or Lisa's comments to indicate that there is currently a serious effort (e.g., ignition interlock) to protect the rest of us from his drunken driving.

 

[Schmoopy]

I would  interject it's not Lisa's fault on what the court decided or what choices they offered to him. She took on a man and his children plus her own. That says a lot. It also says a lot for a woman to support someone in a hardship like his.

[hoipolloi]

1 hour ago, Schmoopy said:

I would  interject it's not Lisa's fault on what the court decided or what choices they offered to him. She took on a man and his children plus her own. That says a lot. It also says a lot for a woman to support someone in a hardship like his.

This issue is deeply personal for me since my in-laws were nearly killed by a drunken driver some years ago. Although not a neo-calvinist preacher with lots of family money & influence, the guy who put them in hospital & rehab for months was a lifelong drunk, a fact well-known to his family and friends. Yes -- a lifelong drunk, just like RC2, which is something his family & friends have known for decades. 

That said, the primary issue in RC2's case, above all others, is public safety. Public safety is only assured if we can be confident that there is no way RC2 will be driving drunk, whatever it takes to make that happen.

I see nothing -- not in the court records, not on FB, not in Lisa's comments or yours, for that matter -- that provides any assurance of this fundamental right to safety. Put another way, people who drive the same roads as RC2 have a RIGHT not to be at risk from RC2's alcoholism while he is exercising his PRIVILEGE to drive a motor vehicle. 

Consequently, Lisa's involvement (or lack thereof) in the court decisions in RC2's case or her wonderful personality or her amazing career as a dietician or her generosity in deciding to marry RC2, really have nothing to do with any of this. 

 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

A dietician can't cure addiction. Period.

First rule of whoever works with addiction: you can't take part in a relative's or in a friend's recovery process as a professional. You need to take the back seat, ESPECIALLY if the person in question is your spouse.

If she didn't spot his addiction before marrying him then she has no experience nor ability to help him. If she knew and she let him "take care" of the children then she's complicit. The best thing a spouse can do for an addict is  to take the door with the children and making very clear that they won't be back until recovery is completed. Staying meekly and submissively to cover up the problems never helped anyone.

Losing weight and looking healthy doesn't mean he was cured of his addiction. For example cocaine makes wonders to make people lose weight and give them sparkle, same with amphetamines. BTW one of the worst and most resistant alcoholics I've ever met was a very sleek and fit 30yo.

Signed someone who works in an inpatient rehab.

[Schmoopy]

Quote

This issue is deeply personal for me since my in-laws were nearly killed by a drunken driver some years ago. Although not a neo-calvinist preacher with lots of family money & influence, the guy who put them in hospital & rehab for months was a lifelong drunk, a fact well-known to his family and friends. Yes -- a lifelong drunk, just like RC2, which is something his family & friends have known for decades. 

That said, the primary issue in RC2's case, above all others, is public safety.. 

My point is that blaming his behavior on her or anyone else is wrong. I read an interview or a comment somewhere that one her children said she has never even tasted beer and wasn't with him the night he drove drunk, nor was she aware of it until she got the call from the sheriff.  I was trying to find where I read it so I could repost, but have not located it yet.  As someone earlier stated, she is standing by her man and helping to lead this family back to normalcy after so much has happened. I respect her for not abandoning them all. True grit. It appears she's made a lot of boundries by at least what it looks like- which is what all of the comments here are - either what it looks like or how they view it by their own pain or anger, being a victim or guessing what the laws are. I am not dismissing what he has done. I think speculating she has not done anything to fix or prevent looks like speculation with the only evidence being what you read or perceive what others think or read.  The only proof we have is what we are able to see from a distance since we don't live in their house.

[FundieFarmer]

I'm sorry, but though it's an addiction and I know that's difficult to go through, I don't see that as a "hardship". Your post of supporting a spouse through a "hardship" to me is something like what my spouse has done– marrying me though he knew I have a lifelong chronic condition that could've meant no kids, risky childbirth, possibility of a shortened lifespan, altered cooking and lifestyles for us both, and regular hospital trips to make sure my heart is still beating. It means sleeping on a hard hospital chair as I recover from open heart for a week and caths for a weekend. It means getting alarmed every time I look pale or have chest pain or an illness lasts longer than it should or moves into my chest. 

It does not mean turning a blind eye to an addiction that could kill others. My illness is my own. It affects us. It has no immediate impact on anyone else and it won't take anybody else's life. Lisa Sproul has done no noble thing by marrying him despite his addiction– rather, she puts herself and her own children in danger every time they get in a car with him, and others by letting him drive instead of taking the keys away. He has plenty of other enablers in his life. He did not need another with a lifetime vow. 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

1 hour ago, Schmoopy said:

. I think speculating she has not done anything to fix or prevent looks like speculation with the only evidence being what you read or perceive what others think or read. 

The evidence is that he was driving dead drunk in the middle of the day not alone but with two children on board. Given what she herself says about her experience and profession it's a stretch of imagination to state that she wasn't aware of his addiction. Now if you know that your spouse is an alcoholic you don't let him drive alone with the kids. Period. Better even would be not letting him drive at all. If instead she knew and did nothing she isn't responsible of him drunk driving but she is responsible for her doing nothing. 

A question: if hypothetically she sees he is still behaving like an addict what options does she have in your opinion? Can she walk away with the kids until he has his acts back together and isn't a danger for them? Or should she stay until someone gets harmed (something that in more unlucky circumstances could have already happened)?

[hoipolloi]

3 hours ago, Schmoopy said:

My point is that blaming his behavior on her or anyone else is wrong. ...As someone earlier stated, she is standing by her man and helping to lead this family back to normalcy after so much has happened. I respect her for not abandoning them all.

Again, this is all irrelevant and not the point of my prior comments. 

Without all safeguards possible -- license revocation, ignition interlock, rehab & counseling by bona fide an addiction counselor or therapist, strict oversight while on probation -- RC2 is at high risk for re-offending, as in driving drunk. 

[Schmoopy]

Considering the police reports state it was around 8:30pm that's not midday. The report also states they contacted his wife, who had no idea.  So, that is not what you state that it was in midday- the police report says otherwise.  

She also stated that her experience is working with patients who had transplants due to substance abuse. A dietitian is not a substance abuse counselor, but one who heals the body and its crisis with food and educates changes and choices. Because she didn't know to look in her crystal ball and forsee he would do something illegal or had a past isn't fair. Hindsight it always 20/20.  

 

She states he had his license suspended six months. That's what the law did. He fulfilled his six months and had nothing else occur. During that time why you await trial you also have to go weekly and get drug tested. So, if your clean well.. your clean.  The law imputed both law and justice. It gives justice to the one who fulfills what the law requires. I have a difficult time believing that he just bought off the law in IN.  I've sat in as a juror in jury trials and know how evidence sways a juror, but all facts must be considered.

Socially drinking, is widely accepted in many religious circles, though not  a license to drive while intoxicated.  It can also be said that you could get an OWI the first time you ever drink with no prior history of drinking or legal issues. There is no excuse either way- time will tell the future as he walks forward. 

[DomWackTroll]

4 minutes ago, Schmoopy said:

Because she didn't know to look in her crystal ball and forsee he would do something illegal or had a past isn't fair. Hindsight it always 20/20.  

Do you believe she never once googled him? I don't-- and that's all it would take. No crystal ball necessary.