Questions for a future son-in-law

[Terrie]

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When does corporal discipline begin?

When you go into the army and piss off the NCO.
 

The thing is, I have no issues with arranged marriages in general. They exist in a wide variety of cultures, both currently and throughout history. Heck, we've seen that one relsationship where you just wish you could tell them "No. You're not getting married. You're terrible for each other." But this is not just an arranged marriged. When, as noted, one party or both parties have no say or participation in the process, it's a forced marriage. that's just creepy.

[princessmahina]

18 hours ago, kpmom said:

I will admit this question made me laugh;

"Are pants ever acceptable?"

As opposed to being naked?  As opposed to wearing a kilt?

I assume she meant pants on females, but that's not how she worded it on the blog.

My first thought was "No, men should be wearing kilts or Biblical robes." 

I imagine that would elicit a really horrified response.

[Queen]

The "exposed to homosexuality" question made me crack up! Well, my most recent exposion would be from earlier today; kissing my girlfriend, if that counts  (yes, I'm also a girl). 

[Hisey]

I'm starting to wonder if Hayly made her own decision about Reagan, but agreed to let her parents "vet" him just to get them off her back. "Yeah, sure, go ahead, mom, ask him some questions, no, I don't need to know about it." Then Hayly went about her business, getting to know Reagan on her own, emailing him from the local library, and bypassing her parents' other rules.

[PopRox]

1 hour ago, Hisey said:

I'm starting to wonder if Hayly made her own decision about Reagan, but agreed to let her parents "vet" him just to get them off her back. "Yeah, sure, go ahead, mom, ask him some questions, no, I don't need to know about it." Then Hayly went about her business, getting to know Reagan on her own, emailing him from the local library, and bypassing her parents' other rules.

That would make me feel 100% better about this whole squicky situation.

[Pianokeeper]

2 hours ago, Hisey said:

I'm starting to wonder if Hayly made her own decision about Reagan, but agreed to let her parents "vet" him just to get them off her back. "Yeah, sure, go ahead, mom, ask him some questions, no, I don't need to know about it." Then Hayly went about her business, getting to know Reagan on her own, emailing him from the local library, and bypassing her parents' other rules.

That would not surprise me one iota. Watching that video (okay, and fast forwarding through chunks of it, because... 37 minutes? really, guys?) it's apparent how much of a crush she has on him, at least. 

She seems far more upbeat about her pending nuptials than did, say, Kathryn Neely Staddon, who was allowed to participate in the process, albeit in a slightly bizarre way.

[Lurky]

6 hours ago, Hisey said:

I'm starting to wonder if Hayly made her own decision about Reagan, but agreed to let her parents "vet" him just to get them off her back. "Yeah, sure, go ahead, mom, ask him some questions, no, I don't need to know about it." Then Hayly went about her business, getting to know Reagan on her own, emailing him from the local library, and bypassing her parents' other rules.

From the video, they met online when she was 15-6 and were talking online in secret on that writing site (her breaking the rules set by her parents, him breaking the rules of the website) and then were stopped by her (step?)dad for a few years, then they reconnected, met at a writing site thing, he started guest-writing on the family blog, came to the family home to produce the girls' album (and "talked in group settings only"), they started emailing again, and having group skypes with the family and so on.

Apparently she didn't want a courtship, she wanted a man who wanted to marry her to just ask, so they had this ridiculous scenario where her parents were doing all this but she knew exactly what was going on (per the video).   And since she was 17, her parents had been throwing courtship propositions at her, but she always compared them to Ramm...  It seems like she was in a courtship with one guy when she met Ramm at the writing camp (for the first time) and seems like they fell for each other (but they're a bit coy about this).

So I would read this as him being genuinely into her and jumping through parental hoops, but his blog is full of all the awful women-should-submit and so on, so I think he was into all that side.

[Odd1Out]

The way they were laughing about how they had broke her parents rules by communicating is strange. If her parents are so strict on her as an adult, wouldn't they want to keep that hidden. Until they were married at least. Almost seems like it's a big made up story. 

And there were several times she used 'darn' and other words similar to cussing. When she said 'Holey Schhhh....moley " I thought she was going to say something else and I think Reagan did too. Does not seem like an extremely conservative, sheltered thing to say. This whole idea of not even courting must just be some romanticized way of being the perfect Christian girl to her. 

And he talks about how he gets to listen to rock music and read fiction books, but he didn't want a girl that was worldly. What's that about? 

Again, I don't know her family's story but she seems like she's smart, educated and could blend right into a regular crowd of people. So I'm not sure what he was looking for. She is not the low-key sheltered type like Sarah Maxwell. 

 

I I just don't get it. 

[hoipolloi]

Given the video, this looks like yet another example of the fundie mantra: "Do as we say, not as we do."

[Lurky]

1 hour ago, Odd1Out said:

And there were several times she used 'darn' and other words similar to cussing. When she said 'Holey Schhhh....moley "

And "flipping" something too.

(I have a real aversion to the whole nearly-swearing thing - to me, swearing is about intention, so someone doing that JEEEE-pers thing, like a family friend always does, where she's making a huge deal that she's wanting to say "Jesus!", but she's so much better than people who swear - and the whole SHHHHH-ugar thing.  It's always said with all the force of swearing, and the same intentions, but it's not using swear words, so it's all fine.) 

(I used to work with kids a lot, and we'd make up words that weren't swearwords to use in front of kids - but then stopped, because the words weren't the point.  Other people's mileage will vary of course)

[seraaa]

I watched some of their engagement video, and apparently they'd connected before online via a Christian writing site, and I get the impression they liked each other before.

The questionnaire speaks to a creepy level of over-involvement on the parents, in my opinion, but eh, it could be worse?

 

[seraaa]

On 10/26/2016 at 8:40 PM, amandaaries said:

Just LOVE his blog.  Here's something about how men have the right to do what they want with their bodies, and if that includes beating their wives, well, so be it! http://reaganramm.com/men-should-be-allowed-to-beat-their-wives/

Here's a charming quote (bolding mine): 

Fuck this man gently with a chainsaw (Heathers reference, not a call for actual violence, as he clearly and forcefully advocates for above).

So glad he was thoroughly vetted by the parents.  You'd hate to have a man who'd beat your daughter for a STUPID reason.  

I have no words. This is absolutely reprehensible. 

 

What about a person's right not to be physically assaulted? 

 

ETA: Apparently, he was being satirical for the purposes of making a point? I jumped to conclusions.

Well.

[apandaaries]

1 hour ago, seraaa said:

ETA: Apparently, he was being satirical for the purposes of making a point? I jumped to conclusions.

Well.

Yep, satire.  I went skimming through the blog a bit too quickly and jumped the gun.  But it remains inflammatory writing which reveals some serious issues with his logical, critical thinking skills.  

[erunerune]

Is anyone else following the comments on this post? Because they are fundie blog gold under the guise of civilized discussion.

 

[Lurky]

@erunerune LOVING the comments - did you catch the ones by Reagan, denying that he said things in the video?  Now he's saying he was private messaging all kinds of girls on Kingdom Pen, talking about the same things (even though as a volunteer on the site, he wasn't allowed to - and the fact he knew she wasn't allowed to talk to a guy like that, which oddly, he doesn't address.  Check out his reply to Natalie Gain (who I think is great) in:

http://www.thelongwaytogo.com/haley-reagan-unconventional-love-story/

In other Haley news, because she's getting married, she'll never be able to go for a motorbike ride with her uncle...

http://www.thelongwaytogo.com/feminine-friday-on-one-last-ride/

I don't get it.  If it's inappropriate for a married woman, surely a single woman shouldn't do it either?

[Showtunesgirl]

@Lurky wait where does it say it's inappropriate? I can't find it.

[Anonymousguest]

2 hours ago, Lurky said:

@erunerune LOVING the comments - did you catch the ones by Reagan, denying that he said things in the video?  Now he's saying he was private messaging all kinds of girls on Kingdom Pen, talking about the same things (even though as a volunteer on the site, he wasn't allowed to - and the fact he knew she wasn't allowed to talk to a guy like that, which oddly, he doesn't address.  Check out his reply to Natalie Gain (who I think is great) in:

http://www.thelongwaytogo.com/haley-reagan-unconventional-love-story/

In other Haley news, because she's getting married, she'll never be able to go for a motorbike ride with her uncle...

http://www.thelongwaytogo.com/feminine-friday-on-one-last-ride/

I don't get it.  If it's inappropriate for a married woman, surely a single woman shouldn't do it either?

I think it's because she will be 1000 miles away. Not because it was inappropriate.

[Lurky]

@Showtunesgirl Just that she'll never do it again after she gets married.

@Anonymousguest Yeah she's moving 1,000 miles away - but I live in a different country to some of my immediate family and some of my best friends (my best friend is literally on the other side of the world!) and we all manage to see each other!  I don't get it.

[Anonymousguest]

@Lurky yeah, I don't know. She didn't really give a reason other than getting married.

[sea_gale]

I suspect they'll be a lot less fundie after getting married. Prepare for jeans in 3... 2...

 

[Lurky]

I haven't checked the family blog for a while, and wow, seems like Cheryl really loved the attention for the batshit Courtship posting, because there have been 2 more blogs about Covenant Ceremonies, though one's the re-post of the creepy AF covenant ceremony from 2012.  Get ready, Jingerettes, because I think the blood pressure may be about to rise...

What About Covenants, Purity Rings, and Courtship?

She doesn't actually talk about why Haley rejected the whole idea of Courtship, mind, which is weird, as that was the whole point of the re-post.  I'm really interested in that, because there are also stories on the Courtship section of the site, from girls who very definitely didn't want Courtship, but just to be asked to get married, without dating, kind of organically - which is in direct opposition to Cheryl pushing Courtship.

Then there's this...

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By the time Stephanie was 14 years old, she had witnessed the damaging effects of dating of those around her enough to confirm in her own heart that she wanted a different route to marriage.

I wonder if some of the witnessing was of both her parents having affairs, I wonder?

---

And aw, Cheryl sent us a lovely message on one of her Feminine Fridays!  "No, no, please don't give me more attention!"

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When the kids decided on this pose, one of the older girls said, “Mom! Take this picture for our fans at FreeJinger!” Hahaha! (For those who don’t know, FreeJinger is an online forum that contemptuously discusses fundamental Christian blogs and practices. They sometimes troll here, leaving nasty comments–which we don’t generally publish–and criticize just about every thing we do and believe.)

Fair warning to fundamental Christian bloggers: If you’re going to talk about your beliefs online, and transparently share your failures as well as testimonies of God’s grace, you will need thick skin.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chocolatedefrauded]

Cheryl lists one of her interests/ hobbies as disciplining her children! Who does that? It's like saying "I like to beat my children. They need it & i''m pretty good at it." It's sick.

The whole courtship thing is simple another say to control & manipulate your daughters. They always talk about daughters, never sons.

[Koala]

6 minutes ago, Chocolatedefrauded said:

Cheryl lists one of her interests/ hobbies as disciplining her children! Who does that? It's like saying "I like to beat my children. They need it & i''m pretty good at it." It's sick.

The whole courtship thing is simple another say to control & manipulate your daughters. They always talk about daughters, never sons.

She's a pearl follower. 

Looks like she's deleted her old blog.

 

[Lurky]

2 minutes ago, Koala said:

Looks like she's deleted her old blog.

I absolutely love that the old blog has been scrubbed - and that she has always edited/removed controversial posts like "my husband killed my favourite dog" when there was pushback, but says

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Fair warning to fundamental Christian bloggers: If you’re going to talk about your beliefs online, and transparently share your failures as well as testimonies of God’s grace, you will need thick skin.

PS Isn't it handy she doesn't publish these abusive comments she claims are from FJ?  I would hate to think FJ members were being abusive on her blog (though of course, she's the type to see any disagreement = abuse) but I also feel like she's saying that, again, for attention...

[Koala]

Cheryl:

Quote

When the kids decided on this pose, one of the older girls said, “Mom! Take this picture for our fans at FreeJinger!” Hahaha! (For those who don’t know, FreeJinger is an online forum that contemptuously discusses fundamental Christian blogs and practices. They sometimes troll here, leaving nasty comments–which we don’t generally publish–and criticize just about every thing we do and believe.)

Fair warning to fundamental Christian bloggers: If you’re going to talk about your beliefs online, and transparently share your failures as well as testimonies of God’s grace, you will need thick skin.