Counting On Season 2 - Part 5

[SassyPants]

20 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

If Jill saw any shooting or was threatened in any way, they'd talk about it on their blog to up the we're in DANGEROUS Central America story. They wouldn't keep quiet. Jill likely just can't cope with being by herself. We already knew that with how she turned into a stage 5 clinger when Derick was on his lunch breaks at Walmart. 

And would't that bring some conflict and sadness if the "love of your life" wanted to be a missionary and wander the planet, and you thought that you did too (because passing out candy and dollar store coloring books every year during the the 3rd week of December was your idea of hard mission work), to find that you hate everything about mission work, wandering the planet and being away from your family/known support system?

Maybe Jill is conflicted and sad because she feels like a failure???

This, on top of the failed perfect, non medicated home birth, and the public notification of Josh's behaviors and the subsequent loss of the show/guaranteed income, especially on the heels of Man Bun quitting the WM gig.

[alba]

And would't that bring some conflict and sadness if the "love of your life" wanted to be a missionary and wander the planet, and you thought that you did too (because passing out candy and dollar store coloring books every year during the the 3rd week of December was your idea of hard mission work), to find that you hate everything about mission work, wandering the planet and being away from your family/known support system?
Maybe Jill is conflicted and sad because she feels like a failure???
This, on top of the failed perfect, non medicated home birth, and the public notification of Josh's behaviors and the subsequent loss of the show/guaranteed income, especially on the heels of Man Bun quitting the WM gig.

This is a huge issue with the short courtships and engagements for SAHDs. For one thing, SAHDs don't get the chance to experiment and explore and figure out whom they want to be. For another, the relationship moves so quickly that rather than being able to get to know each other through doing things together, they essentially interview each other to see if their stated goals align - which, because the women are SAHDs, might not actually be what they want.

[Lurky]

9 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

And would't that bring some conflict and sadness if the "love of your life" wanted to be a missionary and wander the planet, and you thought that you did too (because passing out candy and dollar store coloring books every year during the the 3rd week of December was your idea of hard mission work), to find that you hate everything about mission work, wandering the planet and being away from your family/known support system?

This is really sad to me.  When I was 16 and 17, I was sure I wanted to be an archeologist, and planned to go to uni to study for that - so my dad found a dig I could go on for a week or so, and wow, it was tedious!  I had the chance to live the life, and I'm far too impatient for it, so swapped plans.  And it was a great move by my dad, because had I realised I'd loved it, I'd've been better set up for applying, so either way, I learned tons and could go forward with experience-based knowledge. 

The super-sad thing about these kidults is that they're so sure they want to be missionaries, have quivers of their own, adopt etc etc, but the only way they'll learn they're actually not suited to the life is when it's too late to back out. 

[nst]

18 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

And would't that bring some conflict and sadness if the "love of your life" wanted to be a missionary and wander the planet, and you thought that you did too (because passing out candy and dollar store coloring books every year during the the 3rd week of December was your idea of hard mission work), to find that you hate everything about mission work, wandering the planet and being away from your family/known support system?

Maybe Jill is conflicted and sad because she feels like a failure???

This, on top of the failed perfect, non medicated home birth, and the public notification of Josh's behaviors and the subsequent loss of the show/guaranteed income, especially on the heels of Man Bun quitting the WM gig.

and don't forget a bridesmaid dress from one of her sister's wedding - and she thinks we dont notice that ....:)

 

 

[Carm_88]

I agree with all of the previous posters who said that Jill had no idea what an actual mission was like. She lived a really sheltered life on the Duggar compound, they went on short mission trips where they were sheltered and just gave out candy and stuff at orphanages. She had no idea what she would be getting into and then Derek is gone. He is learning Spanish and I think could be the local crazy, missionary guy but Jill being clingy worries about him constantly when he's gone. She worries about everything I would think and that is what is causing  a shit ton of stress. 

[karen77]

I wonder if after babysitting Iz and having Spurg at the same time while being pregnant, really gave Jessa a mental reality check of what her life is going to turn into... can't always split up, especially when you have 3! or if Ben finally get's a job. 

[Carm_88]

Just now, karen77 said:

I wonder if after babysitting Iz and having Spurg at the same time while being pregnant, really gave Jessa a mental reality check of what her life is going to turn into... can't always split up, especially when you have 3! or if Ben finally get's a job. 

Do you think Ben will someday get a job? 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

42 minutes ago, alba said:

 

This is a huge issue with the short courtships and engagements for SAHDs. For one thing, SAHDs don't get the chance to experiment and explore and figure out whom they want to be. For another, the relationship moves so quickly that rather than being able to get to know each other through doing things together, they essentially interview each other to see if their stated goals align - which, because the women are SAHDs, might not actually be what they want.

 

THIS SO MUCH! This is where what the Duggar's are doing is so harmful.  Like Jessa got caught up in the throws of "first love" and is now going WTF did I do. Jill and Derrick while I do think there is a genuine affection there may turn out to be vastly different people. Josh and Anna, that list is so long and I just don't care about him in any way. We'll see with JinjJer but this not being able to spend a hours alone with each other getting to really know someone with out prying eyes is detrimental.  If these were logical beings they would know that you CAN be alone with someone of the opposite sex and NOT ravage them, it is possible.  It may make not kissing or getting handsy harder to control, but that too is normal behavior and should be explored BEFORE the wedding day.  We don't live 150 years ago where you married at 17 and died at 40 and everything in between was a crap shoot.  You can hold off on sex till marriage, if that is what you want, I can respect that but the rest of it is trouble looking for more trouble. 

[Bad Wolf]

Jessa didn't need to get off the couch. The auntie moms were there.

[VelociRapture]

I'm going to do something rare and take a brief moment to defend Jessa a bit.

I watched my infant nephew this spring all day while his parents were at work - probably around 8 hours a day. He was between two and four months old at the time and I had just found out I was pregnant. 

It was extremely difficult trying to watch my adorable little love, while dealing with horrible morning sickness and exhaustion at the same time. I had to call my mom a bunch of times to come take over for me because I was so sick so much. And even once I started medication for it, the pregnancy hormones and instant anxiety that I would miscarry again made it extremely tough for me to relax and enjoy that time with him fully.

So I'm going to go ahead and say I have some sympathy for Jessa. Everything else I've seen of her interactions with Spurgeon has shown her to be a loving and engaged mother. I'm guessing that pregnancy symptoms have her running on less energy and a shorter fuse than normal - it makes caring for her own child tougher, not to mention agreeing to watch her active nephew too. 

That said, this is a life that she had chosen for herself at this point. So my sympathy for her is rather limited.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

29 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

Do you think Ben will someday get a job? 

He's going to have to at some point. Unless they keep on living on the kindness of strangers.  But that generosity will wear thin at some point.  Boob has 19 Kids, some of these kids are going to have to support themselves and other siblings eventually, I honestly don't see Jessa and Bin staying married much beyond 5 or 6 years, there is nothing there but sex and the TV show and once the TV is gone & the Jessa has 4 kids the sex will be too. These two never should have married, maybe Bin and Joy would have made a good couple in 5 or 6 years, when they are both in their early/mid twenties. But he was/is so young and so immature he's in no position to be a father when he's barely mature enough to dress himself.  This couple is going to end badly. 

[epic fail]

I agree with many things posted above so this is just an add on:) I think that isolating her child and herself is also Jilly's learned coping mechanism. It is the way she (as one of the older kids) grew up. Total isolation from the ebil outside world. Maybe her trust in life outside her bubble while in the states grew with the TLC exposure but once faced with a different culture full of spiritually dead  Catholics (I can't believe I just typed this!) and probably lots of stories of violence during confessions or female get-togethers meant that she needed to apply the only safety mechanism she was taught. Not get information and make informed decisions about what is save to do and what not BUT isolate yourself and your children!

Jessa: Everything I saw suggests she loves Spur. But I think only Spur (or him on a totally different level in a different way). Her telling Ben she takes Spur and he is responsible for the other one was pretty typical for that in my eyes. Not everyone is a Baby person and Jessa never was! But i think she loves HER Babys. Izzy is just another child like Jordyn or any other of her siblings. There she displays the don't really care attitude we know from her...

[sunshine]

When Jessa said yes, dear, I am like, well, that falls well outside the JOY programming. Ha

[Carm_88]

9 minutes ago, sunshine said:

When Jessa said yes, dear, I am like, well, that falls well outside the JOY programming. Ha

Hahah oh did it ever? I don't think Jessa has ever had JOY!  

[2manyKidzzz]

I do wonder about Zika. Is Jill "supposed" to assume that Jeebus will take care of everything. Or does she feel anxiety knowing the very real danger the virus poses to a pregnancy. 

She said she wanted to kiss the ground when they got home and then started crying during the preview of that interview. . It is hard for me to believe she is that happy in CA. 

[socalrules]

I doubt anything happened to Jill while in CA. It's more likely something happened to someone they met there and it just magnified Jill's fear. Honestly, I think Jill would be freaked out if they were living in New York or Los Angeles or any big city away from home. She has no idea how to function in a world that doesn't revolve around the Duggars and their belief system. Think about how nervous Anna was about going to the library, one of the greatest, most welcoming,places to spend time. Derrick was likely fine in CA because he has no problem meeting new people or those that are not exactly like him. He might want to convert them but he isn't afraid of them. I think Jill would be uncomfortable navigating anything different. I think she is perfectly happy going back to the Duggar world.

I am in the camp that they aren't going back to CA anytime soon. What pisses me off is that it's obvious Jill hated it there and doesn't want to go back but she will do so as to be a true submissive wife. She needs to grow a backbone, if not for herself, then for IZZY. No way would I take my kid into that situation so that my lazy husband could play preacher to times a week. 

As to Jessa, she seems to adore Spurg, I just don't think she cares about other kids. That's ok. I worked with someone who was madly in love with her kid. Thought he was the greatest to walk the earth. She admitted she didn't like kids in general and never liked them until hers was born. She is a great mom anyway. Just because you love your kid doesn't mean you have to love everyone else's.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

16 hours ago, Cassia said:

I started to get the feeling that 'something' happened to the Dillards as well but that 'something' could be anything at all. It could have been an innocuous comment from a neighbour ("You'd best keep that blonde baby inside" or something), or an aggressive stranger while they were out as a family. They could have been mugged or threatened in some way. They could have witnessed a shooting or some other crime. Or it could also be nothing but her own amplification of the perceived dangers.

Unless they straight up tell us, we'll never know if Jill had a concrete reason for isolating herself and Izzy while 'missioning'.

I think they could have had an unpleasant guest--like one wanting more "favors" that Jill cared to deliver--when she and the baby were home alone. PURELY A GUESS. I do think she is really not ok though. After one year away in Peace Corps (back when there was no internet and phone call cost the Earth) I got really depressed by the new culture. About the 1 year point it got much better. And, I didn't have a baby to care for. My other guess would be something with Izzy--possibly super high fever spike or something. No ER to run too. It isn't that easy to move abroad to a country like the U.K. or Australia--let alone to go to a country with a different language, brutal poverty and with a baby in tow. She could also have miscarried. That could be really tough for her--no sisters, Mom at her worst moment. I'd think miscarriage would be "failure" more than God's will..... Just my $2 opinion.

[BoPeep]

Oh heavens, I was one who ADORED children and worked with them for yrs and yrs....at church, teaching, daycare, babysitting, nannying....I did it all and loved those kids as if they were my own.  I was telling a story today of a baby I had in daycare....23 yrs ago, and remembered her name and the names of most of the kids in that infant room!  But once I had MY KIDS, nope.  I don't like other people's children now.  I can hardly tolerate them, to be honest.  We have 2 girls who come over twice a week to homeschool with us....and they are the first kids in 12 yrs (other than my brother's two) that I enjoy.  I just am 98% OVER other people's children.  I get asked all the time to help w this or that w children....nope.  Been there, done that, not happening.  I am with my two 24/7 because I homeschool, and I love it, but don't make me take care of other people's kids.  

As for Jill in CA....I cannot even imagine the huge changes she's had to deal with.  First of all, leaving home for the first time.  It's hard to leave all the chaos of a big family...with zero privacy...and then be all alone.  Or alone w just a husband.  The best thing that ever happened to me was the time I had to live all alone for the first time.  For a short while, I had no one....and it was terrifying....yet I learned to BE ALONE.  I had never had that.  I learned how to reach out, how to make friends, and esp how to spend my evenings ALONE.  Funny thing....I became a military wife and I WAS ALONE SO MUCH!  We moved all the time, and I had to re-adjust time and again to being alone (dh worked 12-16 hr days....and then the nights tdy and  weeks in the field....plus deployments....) and in a new place.  I'm thankful for learning the hardness of alone before being placed into that situation.  Jill never had that chance.  Ever.  How drastically different her life became....leaving family (I at least had college and work and time to let go of my homesickness!), and then, too, becoming submersed into a foreign culture!  That is hard to deal with....it truly is.  My heart understands that kind of struggle.  At least when we lived in foreign lands, we still had a military community around us to cling to!  I made some foreign friends....but the vast majority were other american people who could relate with me.  

Living in a foreign country is hard....and I saw so many women shrivel up.  So many DID just as Jill, and they hid themselves in their apartments and lived in fear and depression.  A whole new country to explore and learn about....to wander and taste/see/smell/experience....and they lived in their apts, and on weekends they hung out at the px and ate at the burger king on post.  And at the drop of a hat, they ran back home to mommy.....and wanted their old life back.   And these were women who went to public schools, some to college, some lived on their own, some were used to living inthe military...and coping wasn't always an easy thing.  So Jill struggling like she has is not a surprise.  I've seen it.  I've struggled at times, too.  But the world is large and amazing, and I had amazing people who kicked me in the butt and said GET OUT, ENJOY, LIVE!  Bless those tough women who knew what I needed!

[Bad Wolf]

Just a thought, but maybe Derick meant the gang members were the spiritually dead, not the Catholics. Maybe not. Also, coming back to the US can give someone  culture shock after a few months in dangerous CA. I do know people who have come home after a year in a similar situation, and it took them some to readjust.

[Jinder Roles]

On October 19, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Dr. Fundie Stalker said:

I noticed that their US segments made me feel less uncomfortable than other segments in general. I actually can tolerate Derrick and Jill much more than Bin and Jessa so I was questioning weather they are happier at home which I think they are but I think their scenes were just more tolerable altogether?

I definitely felt that too. Jill is obviously more happy in U.S than CA. It's been brought up that Jill seems to have less of a connection to anybody when living in CA. I think it's because she's really out of her element and uncomfortable. You could really see how easily she interacted with her husband and her family. Much less tense and more more of her trademark "totally!" Jill self. 

[CharlieInCharge]

I've waited to comment until I watched the episode myself and I had a few thoughts.

First, I think all the auction furniture and other stuff from the Stoneybrook house is in storage because it belongs to the Dillards. The furniture and decor for the guest house will stay with that house after the Dillards go back to CA. Jana said something about decorating for guests when she was fighting with Jessa, so I think the plan is to keep the house as is for future guests.

Second, I gotta defend the no fresh food thing. I lived in Asia for two years and drank bottled water the whole time. And fresh produce grown in contaminated soil can never be washed enough or good produce washed in contaminated water can never be 'clean' enough. I know you can theoretically adapt to those microbes, but I worked with a lot of ex-pats and they all did the same no matter how long they had lived there. 

I hate being a Duggar-defender, but those two things stood out to me and I had to say my bit.

On a more cynical note, I can now see Jessa and Ben's contempt growing. They remind me of several couples I've know who ended up divorced. I don't think the strain of two under two is going to help matters. Those aunty-moms are going to be staying over at the tiny house a LOT.

[OldFadedStar]

1 hour ago, BoPeep said:

 At least when we lived in foreign lands, we still had a military community around us to cling to!  I made some foreign friends....but the vast majority were other american people who could relate with me.  

Living in a foreign country is hard....and I saw so many women shrivel up.  So many DID just as Jill, and they hid themselves in their apartments and lived in fear and depression.  A whole new country to explore and learn about....to wander and taste/see/smell/experience....and they lived in their apts, and on weekends they hung out at the px and ate at the burger king on post.  And at the drop of a hat, they ran back home to mommy.....and wanted their old life back.   And these were women who went to public schools, some to college, some lived on their own, some were used to living inthe military...and coping wasn't always an easy thing.  So Jill struggling like she has is not a surprise.  I've seen it.  I've struggled at times, too.  But the world is large and amazing, and I had amazing people who kicked me in the butt and said GET OUT, ENJOY, LIVE!  Bless those tough women who knew what I needed!

Yes!!!! I lived in Japan for four years with my husband who is in the Navy and I really understand the struggle Jill is going through.  It took me about a year as well to really start to feel comfortable in Japan but I saw so many people around me struggle because it isn't the US. Definitely an adjustment. And like you said we had the base!

 

I thoroughly enjoyed Derrick and Jills date to the grocery store... because I really saw myself in a lot of what they were saying. I've been back over a year and STILL get overwhelmed in grocery stores. I even told my husband in response to D&J response... "At least we had the commissary... I couldn't imagine how I would feel if I didn't have that..."

[SassyPants]

It's too bad that JB and M do not see that their adult offspring are not prepared for life in the real world. If I could wish one thing on the Duggars it is that JB and M would realize and accept that what they done has handicapped and handcuffed their children. They could change their ways and make better choices for their younger kids. 

How many times have Jill and Derick referenced dangerous CA? How many of her sibs have used that same phrase? If it's so dangerous, don't go back.  If they're so afraid, can they really be making much of a difference? Call it a career vs personality mismatch and move on...that's what adults do. Find a different way to support yourselves. Get jobs, like everyone else who has a family. I have a feeling that Jill would not be happy with Derick working away from home either. Although, she could park her butt at the TTH ala Jessa and let the girls at home take care of Izzy. Also, there should be no more kids until J/D get their acts together.

[Cleopatra7]

3 hours ago, socalrules said:

I doubt anything happened to Jill while in CA. It's more likely something happened to someone they met there and it just magnified Jill's fear. Honestly, I think Jill would be freaked out if they were living in New York or Los Angeles or any big city away from home. She has no idea how to function in a world that doesn't revolve around the Duggars and their belief system. Think about how nervous Anna was about going to the library, one of the greatest, most welcoming,places to spend time. Derrick was likely fine in CA because he has no problem meeting new people or those that are not exactly like him. He might want to convert them but he isn't afraid of them. I think Jill would be uncomfortable navigating anything different. I think she is perfectly happy going back to the Duggar world.

I am in the camp that they aren't going back to CA anytime soon. What pisses me off is that it's obvious Jill hated it there and doesn't want to go back but she will do so as to be a true submissive wife. She needs to grow a backbone, if not for herself, then for IZZY. No way would I take my kid into that situation so that my lazy husband could play preacher to times a week. 

As to Jessa, she seems to adore Spurg, I just don't think she cares about other kids. That's ok. I worked with someone who was madly in love with her kid. Thought he was the greatest to walk the earth. She admitted she didn't like kids in general and never liked them until hers was born. She is a great mom anyway. Just because you love your kid doesn't mean you have to love everyone else's.

I think Jill had some very romanticized ideas about what being a missionary would entail. She probably thought that people would convert just by looking at her and her white baby, because that's pretty much the message she's gotten her whole life, what with 19KAC being a "ministry." She's never had to deal with being around people who disagree with her in any way and doesn't know how to interact even with Americans who are slightly different than her (see the episode where the Duggars visited the integrated church in Little Rock with contemporary music and they had no idea how to react). Part of being a good missionary is creating relationships with people and respecting them. Contrary to popular belief, 19th century missionaries to Africa weren't successful at first, even with the hard power of the colonial governments because the missionaries acted like the Dullards, assuming that there was nothing of worth among these people and they needed to become 100 percent Western. It's only when the missionaries started to engage with African cultures that they started getting converts. Jill and Derrick aren't going to do this, because they think that real Christianity equals white conservative Southern Baptism, and can't imagine that any other culture or version of Christianity has merit.

[defraudedbychipendales]

4 hours ago, socalrules said:

 

As to Jessa, she seems to adore Spurg, I just don't think she cares about other kids. That's ok. I worked with someone who was madly in love with her kid. Thought he was the greatest to walk the earth. She admitted she didn't like kids in general and never liked them until hers was born. She is a great mom anyway. Just because you love your kid doesn't mean you have to love everyone else's.

That is totally me! I am not a kid person at all. Mine is perfect in every way, though! 

 

Alright, not really, but he is the best kid in the world.