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Jinger and the Jock- I got you babe


samurai_sarah

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59 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

My state gives a woman 72 hours after giving birth to change her mind, and baby spends that time in care. I've always thought it was a brave and unselfish thing for the birth mothers to give up their babies.  These decisions are not as simple as the pro lifers would have us think.

You are correct that it is not a simple decision, but many first mothers feel that kind of language ("brave" and "unselfish") was used to coerce them into given up their children.  Adult adoptees also describe trauma from their adoptions, even when they had a great childhood and a great relationship with their adoptive parents.

A few rabbit holes if you want to learn more about how many mothers who have lost babies to adoptions feel after relinquishment:  http://www.adoptionbirthmothers.com/coersion-in-adoption-counseling-2/

https://musingsofabirthmom.com/2016/10/19/victoria-a-call-to-action-for-the-sos-network/

https://survivingadopted.com/category/my-story/

http://lavenderluz.com/2016/10/anti-adoption-etc.html

 

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Wow . . . I'm fairly new here.  I had no idea I would be reading about the intimate details of people's labor and delivery.  It is a bit TMI for me.

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1 minute ago, carebaer said:

You are correct that it is not a simple decision, but many first mothers feel that kind of language ("brave" and "unselfish") was used to coerce them into given up their children.

Yes! Many adoption "counselors" will call a young, pregnant woman "selfish" if they wish to keep the baby. They tell them all these stories about how much better off the child will be with more successful, rich parents. If she were to choose to parent her child, she would be only thinking of herself and not of her child. She wouldn't be thinking of the poor, childless couple who long for a baby. 

Some of the adoption practices in the US sicken me. It is not all sunshine and daisies. They are desperate for healthy, white newborns and some will guilt young mothers into relinquishing their rights. 

**I want to add that I am NOT against adoption or adoptive parents. I am against some of the tactics these adoption groups use to get babies**

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1 hour ago, eandre31 said:

I love that you say this. It reminds me of a story in the book, The Girls Who Went Away: The Hidden History of Women Who Surrendered Children for Adoption in the Decades Before Roe v. Wade by Ann Fessler. 

Ann, the author, writes in the beginning of her adoptive mother and how, during Ann's first 3 years of life, her mother would light a special candle on Ann's birthday cake for her natural mother. And how there were certain times when her mother would look at Ann and she knew she was thinking of her birth mother.

I feel that many fundies who adopt just think "I'm saving this child from a bad situation and eternal damnation and blah blah blah" and they don't consider how hard that decision must have been for the birth mother. I'm glad you do. And I'm happy your kids seem to have a wonderful mother in you!

This book was good btw and I recommend it, but it is kind of heartbreaking at times.

I read that book during the summer of 2008 -- can you tell it made an impression? -- and I still think about it often. So many heartbreaking stories. The anti-choice movement makes me so angry.

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57 minutes ago, wandering woman said:

Wow . . . I'm fairly new here.  I had no idea I would be reading about the intimate details of people's labor and delivery.  It is a bit TMI for me.

I'd suggest skipping over those posts and reading something else. Thread drift is a much beloved aspect of the board culture here and happens fairly often. There's more than enough material to keep everyone busy too. :pb_biggrin:

1 hour ago, missegeno said:

 


I don't have a problem with "we're expecting " because that statement is true for the family. "We're pregnant" grates my nerves because those words mean both parties are growing babies inside, which is almost never what people mean by it.

I am happy to hear your husband is such a great help. But he's expecting a baby, not pregnant with one, per my opinion. Perhaps others consider the terms to be more synonymous.

 

The terms are relatively interchangeable in a lot of areas. Tons of people I know say, "We're pregnant," and many of them are well-educated New Englanders. So it's definitely not just a Duggar or a Fundie thing.

ETA: I probably came off as bitchier or harsher about it then intended. The terms used don't really bother me much personally. I'm just a bit tired and maybe a little cranky. I should probably put myself down for a nap. :pb_lol:

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Oh, yes, i didn't mean to imply it is a fundie thing, I hear it all the time in my non-fundie world. Just agreeing with@wandering woman that it bugs me to hear "we're pregnant" but that this annoyance doesn't extend to the "we're expecting" statement defended by@VelociRapture . The two statements mean fundamentally different things to me, but i agree are often used interchangeably. It bugs me, but those are my crackers to eat. Lol.

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There is nothing that bothers me about "We're expecting".  The couple is expecting their baby to be born, so it makes perfect sense.   "We're pregnant" is different. I agree that it is isn't  just fundies who say it. Various women I worked with used the phrase too, and I've always found it annoying.

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15 minutes ago, wandering woman said:

There is nothing that bothers me about "We're expecting".  The couple is expecting their baby to be born, so it makes perfect sense.   "We're pregnant" is different. I agree that it is isn't  just fundies who say it. Various women I worked with used the phrase too, and I've always found it annoying.

I completely agree. Each time the words "We're Pregnant" are being said, I feel like commenting that science should study the husband and figure out how they each became pregnant. We're expecting is a different thing altogether, both re expecting to be parents and hopefully that will happen. 

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Believe me, alba, I stand in awe and in gratitude of our children's birth mothers and birth fathers. We've had talks over the years about their decisions. One's birth mother, just post delivery, said the surge of hormones made her want to take him home... and she thought about it for many hours before she decided to stick with the adoption plan. I know how difficult this decision is. It's NOT "just give them up for adoption" by a long shot. I respect and still pray for our birth families, and I always will.


Oh, I hope I didn't come across as criticising you! In fact, it was the way you said you thought about the difficulties your son's birth mother faced that really highlighted to me the ignorance of fundies who treat adoption as the easy option, because you acknowledged the challenges where they don't.
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On 10/21/2016 at 2:45 AM, alba said:

Now that being said, I do agree she's uneducated on the nutritional front, and I've definitely noticed certain things on her Instagram, like agave syrup, that are fashionable 'healthy' alternatives, so I could definitely see her overloading on agave or maple syrup because it's 'natural'.

Honestly, while I find the Duggar diet horrifying, and agree that it is very easy to overdo it with dubiously healthy sugar/HFCS alternatives (I have a personal weakness for "organic" mock-Reese's cups so I am no saint in this regard)...I doubt these girls are eating any worse than the average American and I applaud any interest in moving to wholer foods, even if the effort is imperfect. I think many young women go through a phase where we start to question the food we were raised on (my mom mostly cooked from scratch, but a lot of recipes included a can of Campbell's cream o' whatever soup...just why), look into alternatives, experiment, etc. That time period just doesn't usually coincide with marriage/immediate pregnancy, and we're not famous enough for strangers on the Internet to critique all our choices.

But for the record, I think the Duggar kidults posting all their meals on Instagram / living off of their grift and undeserved fame totally makes their food choices fair game for anonymous snark! 

 

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1 hour ago, alba said:

 


Oh, I hope I didn't come across as criticising you! In fact, it was the way you said you thought about the difficulties your son's birth mother faced that really highlighted to me the ignorance of fundies who treat adoption as the easy option, because you acknowledged the challenges where they don't.

 

No, not at all.  Each adoption was different; we've had contact with the birth families through the years. This has been both a blessing and a curse. Blessings: lots of love and affection, extra aunties and grannies and so on. Curse: not having the same faith as some birth families, and them making fun of our religion in front of the children,  not only breaking the rules of the kids, after all, some of that is to be expected, but completely shattering the rules and then telling the child that they must decide (at 5 or so)  what behavior is appropriate. 

Other curses: setting the kid up for a visit that doesn't happen 

Yes, the two oldest of our children did eventually have trauma about adoption. One, at 25, is still alternately angry at us, angry at them, grateful to know them, but feeling rejected... and this is difficult to discuss with him. He doesn;t want to hurt us, but we are his place to vent about them or about us... and yes, we've heard "you're not our REAL parents" more than once.

Two, at 22, had the hardest time, I think. He ran into a spot of trouble (prison trouble) and they dropped him like a hot rock, after being so "supportive' about making his own choices, and so on. He implicated one of "theirs" (bue HE was "theirs" too!) and bam! nobody speaks to him any more. 

So he asks ME if I think if he writes to them will they respond. I have tried to NEVER say anything derogatory about any birth family, even when they haven't shown up and my kid was crying, all I would say was "well they must have had an emergency" or "I'm so disappointed' 

 

It sucks being an adoptive mother sometimes, too. It's navigating a minefield much of the time.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

I completely agree. Each time the words "We're Pregnant" are being said, I feel like commenting that science should study the husband and figure out how they each became pregnant. We're expecting is a different thing altogether, both re expecting to be parents and hopefully that will happen. 

I agree about "we're expecting" vs "we're pregnant."  I'm even okay with "We're having a baby."  But pregnancy is something only women can actually experience.  The whole "we're pregnant" thing was trendy like 10+yrs ago though and I thought people had gotten over it.  Now I'm starting to hear it a lot again.  It's not the most annoying thing in the world, but it bugs me.

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On 10/20/2016 at 7:34 PM, SassyPants said:

Am I the only PG woman on Earth who never had a natural contraction? Not one, ever!

I never had one! The only contractions I've ever felt were Braxton Hicks from 14 weeks until my section at 29. I also like to say I have two children and was only pregnant for 6 months, I'm ridiculously efficient at growing kids. Most people take 18 months for two kids :) 

I do always feel weird or lesser or something because I have been pregnant and have kids but never pushed out a baby. I feel like that's some Woman Experience that I'm never going to have and it makes me sad. My good friend assures me she wishes she'd never pushed a baby out, lol. I hear it hurts a bit.

8 hours ago, carebaer said:

You are correct that it is not a simple decision, but many first mothers feel that kind of language ("brave" and "unselfish") was used to coerce them into given up their children.  Adult adoptees also describe trauma from their adoptions, even when they had a great childhood and a great relationship with their adoptive parents.

A few rabbit holes if you want to learn more about how many mothers who have lost babies to adoptions feel after relinquishment:  http://www.adoptionbirthmothers.com/coersion-in-adoption-counseling-2/

https://musingsofabirthmom.com/2016/10/19/victoria-a-call-to-action-for-the-sos-network/

https://survivingadopted.com/category/my-story/

http://lavenderluz.com/2016/10/anti-adoption-etc.html

 

A while ago someone here posted a recommendation for this book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008RMF4GS/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

It is fantastic, very educational for someone like me that doesn't know much about adoption or its history in this country. Beware it is very, very sad. Book title is "The Girls Who Went Away: The Hidden History of Women Who Surrendered Children for Adoption in the Decades Before Roe v. Wade"

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I agree about "we're expecting" vs "we're pregnant."  I'm even okay with "We're having a baby."  But pregnancy is something only women can actually experience.  The whole "we're pregnant" thing was trendy like 10+yrs ago though and I thought people had gotten over it.  Now I'm starting to hear it a lot again.  It's not the most annoying thing in the world, but it bugs me.

No again, not the most annoying thing in the world but I feel...the man is expecting a child. The woman gets all the symptoms, she is pregnant. Contrary to popular belief, I don't believe that they are interchangeable but to each their own of course. 

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43 minutes ago, twinmama said:

I do always feel weird or lesser or something because I have been pregnant and have kids but never pushed out a baby. I feel like that's some Woman Experience that I'm never going to have and it makes me sad. My good friend assures me she wishes she'd never pushed a baby out, lol. I hear it hurts a bit.

Consider yourself #blessed. Pushing a baby out is an enevitable (for most of us) downside of the whole thing. I agree with your friend. Life is full of trauma's, no need to wish for more. Especially since you have the 'prize'. If the logic 'more suffering makes you more of a real woman' makes sense, we might as well go unmedicated or introduce female circumcision. 

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41 minutes ago, twinmama said:

I never had one! The only contractions I've ever felt were Braxton Hicks from 14 weeks until my section at 29. I also like to say I have two children and was only pregnant for 6 months, I'm ridiculously efficient at growing kids. Most people take 18 months for two kids :) 

 

I have never had natural contractions.  2 kids  Both induced at 42 weeks plus...  I am not efficient at growing children.   :my_biggrin:

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4 minutes ago, foreign fundie said:

Consider yourself #blessed. Pushing a baby out is an enevitable (for most of us) downside of the whole thing. I agree with your friend. Life is full of trauma's, no need to wish for more. Especially since you have the 'prize'. If 'more suffering makes you more of a real woman' makes sense, we might as well go unmedicated or introduce female circumcision. 

Wow, I was just being honest about my own feelings. Also I'd call my emergency c-section at 29 weeks more suffering than most vaginal births.

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@Four is Enough You must have had a lot of patience and of course a lot of heartbreak. You're amazing for giving all those babies a great home. You and Mr. Four of course! 

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3 hours ago, eleanora3 said:

Guess the wedding wasn't today

Screen Shot 2016-10-22 at 5.42.31 PM.png

Am I the only person who thinks that looks really fun? :pb_redface:

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30 minutes ago, twinmama said:

Wow, I was just being honest about my own feelings. Also I'd call my emergency c-section at 29 weeks more suffering than most vaginal births.

It was meant as an encouragement. I know other women who feel they missed out on the ultimate female experience when they had no vaginal birth. Just saying I am on board with your friend and I would gladly have skipped that part if I could.

And my point is that it is not a contest who suffers most. We all get enough trouble along the way, there is no point to wish for more or different kinds of suffering. I am glad your babies are safe and you pulled through. 

Oh and I was not suggesting you subscribe to the logic of 'more suffering makes you more of a woman'. It is a train of thought I often hear that can make people with highly medicated births/ adoptions/ planned C sections and so on feel they have not struggled enough.  Sorry if that part was unclear. And I also don't think C-sections are peanuts. But even if they were it wouldn't matter. Again everybody's experience is unique and what counts is the baby.

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@twinmama I'd rather go through 21 hours of labour (my eldest) and give birth to a healthy full term baby than go through an emergency csection and weeks of NICU stress like you did.

 I think we'd all agree that what matters is that the baby gets here and is healthy (although that took a while for yours), not how they got here.  I understand your saying though that you feel like you've missed out on an experience.  I think that's a valid thing to say.

 I had an epidural and 2 top ups for the last 11 hours of labour and didn't feel the pushing my daughter out.  By contrast,  I felt so empowered, and so incredibly amazed at my body after delivering my son without an epidural.  

I was glad I didn't have to recover from a csection while caring for a newborn!

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3 hours ago, eleanora3 said:

Guess the wedding wasn't today

Screen Shot 2016-10-22 at 5.42.31 PM.png

Looks like it was Dan's Bachelor party today:

IMG_3549.PNG

Seems like they had a good time.

28 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Am I the only person who thinks that looks really fun? :pb_redface:

Definitely not the only one. :pb_lol:

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