The Willis Family: Rape Charges Part 2

[Stpauligirlmn]

I read Jessica Fisher's story with horror and heart break.  I'm simply astonished that so many appear to view Brenda as a hapless victim.  In my opinion, she should be prosecuted for neglect and child endangerment.  

How unbelievable that she failed to protect her 9 year old.  How unbelievable that this same daughter write a 14 page letter, detailing abuse, and she DID NOTHING!  I view her with nothing but disgust.

[SamiKatz]

Brenda can be a victim, and guilty of not protecting her daughters as well. She may have had reasons for not adequately responding when she had suspicions, and after reading  Jessica's letter,  but the fact that she did not allowed continued abuse on the children.  As someone who grew up in similar circumstances (I was sexually abused by a family member, but not my father), I am really conflicted on her response.  I too, think she should have done something but recognize she may have felt powerless.  It's tragic the affect that had on her children, however.

The person however who deserves ALL of the blame in this situation is Toby.  He is the reason those children were physically and sexually abused/assaulted and continued to be. 

It's very unfortunate this is not a more widely known incident as to me, this shows the danger of fundamentalism and religious isolation moreso than the Duggars/Bates etc.  (Not saying this only happens in these kind of family though, as we know it happens in all kinds of situations)

[xlurker]

I do truly and completely understand the view point that Brenda should have done more to protect her babies, I get it. But we just dont know where she was emotionally or physically.  We dont know what kind of abuse she endured, or what that abuse did to her decision making skills.  Not all abuse shows as a bruise.  She very well may have thought he would kill her and the children--she may have well been told repeatedly and forcefully that no one would ever believe her, should she leave she would have to come back, and when she did they would all be dead.  We just dont know. We do know emotional abuse can change what we believe to be strong well educated folks into something else. I know that after years of emotional abuse you tend to cling to the outside picture of normalacy, because not to do so could cause a break from reality, which would not help anyone on any level.  Until and if we ever know her side, while I understand why some may place some blame on her, I just can't. Even when your children are at risk, there may come a point that you just "can't even", and waking up every morning is all you can do.

[Stpauligirlmn]

How interesting that several people have disliked my post and identified me as having a bad reputation.  I signed up to be a member specifically so I could express that opinion.  I wonder why it is so threatening to so many?

I refer you to the Daily Mail interview when the host asks, "how is your relationship with your mother?"  Not, "how is your poor mother doing."  The answer is so telling.  The interview cuts back to Jasmine's previous answer stating she knew her mother would defend her (her mother didn't).  Not one of the kids answered the question. Not one.

Imho, Jair is every bit as creepy and domineering as his father.  At 23 years of age, he "told on" his 24 year old sister, who suffered a beating as a result.  A responsible parent would kick him out of the house, to protect the younger children, and help him find a therapist.  Boys learn domestic violence from their fathers.  

I stand by my opinions.

 

 

[Coconut Flan]

Discussing down votes in the threads is inappropriate.  People are free to voice their opinion by down votes as well as by making posts.  All discussions of that nature should go in community discussion.  Any subsequent continuation of down voting will be moved.

[Four is Enough]

5 minutes ago, Stpauligirlmn said:

How interesting that several people have disliked my post and identified me as having a bad reputation.  I signed up to be a member specifically so I could express that opinion.  I wonder why it is so threatening to so many?

I stand by my opinions.

Stand by your opinions all you want. The downvote button is one way for us to disagree with what you posted. perhaps you should read more of the facts of the case.

Sorry, @Coconut Flan, that was a cross post with you

[Stpauligirlmn]

I've been following the case for two year.  I've read everything i can find on the subject.  I follow Jessica and her husband on Twitter, where her husband announced the post a day before it appeared in the press.

What, exactly, have I misquoted, misunderstood, or lacked facts about?

 

[Four is Enough]

Perhaps simply you lack compassion for what appears to have been a woman, a mother, who despite appearing to have a good life, was trapped in a nightmare. Have you read any of the discussions about what it's really like to be in Brenda's situation?

[Stpauligirlmn]

I've been following the case for two year.  I've read everything i can find on the subject.  I follow Jessica and her husband on Twitter, where her husband announced the post a day before it appeared in the press.

What, exactly, have I misquoted, misunderstood, or lacked facts about?

 

Well, your statement is true.  As a victim of chilhood abuse, a mother and a lawyer, I lack compassion for Brenda Willis.

[Lurky]

@Front Hugging Fiend I am so sorry you had to experience that.  My thoughts are with you.

[Beermeet]

8 minutes ago, Stpauligirlmn said:

I've been following the case for two year.  I've read everything i can find on the subject.  I follow Jessica and her husband on Twitter, where her husband announced the post a day before it appeared in the press.

What, exactly, have I misquoted, misunderstood, or lacked facts about?

 

Well, your statement is true.  As a victim of chilhood abuse, a mother and a lawyer, I lack compassion for Brenda Willis.

Some people just disagree with what you said is all.  Don't take it hard. The "F You" reaction is the one people would use if they disliked you.  Feel free to discuss your feelings and knowledge of the case.  You've followed it more than I have.  

[xlurker]

The fact is, we all hope that placed in a situation like that, that we would be the rational adult and be able to protect both the children and ourselves.  Without doubt, we all believe we would be able to do that.  However, to cast blame on Brenda with no knowledge of the amount of fear, if any, she was surviving is almost inhumane.  From the blog post we can assume that this fear was at least substantial.  Fear is insidious and life consuming.  Her children may or may not ever forgive her for not being able to protect them, this is true. But they also may be aware of the abuse she also was enduring. But we also dont know if Brenda feels victorious just for keeping them all alive.  Years of fear and isolation plays with your sense of reality.  Yes, she did all the right things after the arrest, but was that due to her feeling no fear for the first time in years?  Was it because when the arrest happened it felt as if a veil was torn away and she no longer had to hang on by her fingernails?  We dont know,  All we can do is wish them all healing now--it will be a long road.

[EmmieJ]

I remain conflicted regarding my thoughts regarding the Willis mother.  I have not walked in her shoes.  Ultimately, my opinion does not matter.  It's up to her children whether they do or not.  The monster is Toby.

[Palimpsest]

43 minutes ago, Stpauligirlmn said:

I've been following the case for two year.  I've read everything i can find on the subject.  I follow Jessica and her husband on Twitter, where her husband announced the post a day before it appeared in the press.

What, exactly, have I misquoted, misunderstood, or lacked facts about?

 

Well, your statement is true.  As a victim of chilhood abuse, a mother and a lawyer, I lack compassion for Brenda Willis.

I'm sorry you were a victim of childhood abuse.

I believe the question pertained to whether or not you had read the posts on this thread  by mothers and abuse survivors who have more compassion for Brenda than you do.  I could be wrong.

You say that you think Brenda should be prosecuted for neglect and child endangerment because of her failure to protect them from Toy's abuse.  As a lawyer:

•  Is this your area of practice?
• Why do you think the TBI and DA in TN failed to prosecute Brenda? 
• Did you lobby that DA's office asking for her to be prosecuted?
• In your experience how many mothers, who were not party to abuse themselves, have been successfully prosecuted for failure to protect their children from physical and sexual abuse?
• How many have been unsuccessfully prosecuted?
• What length of sentence should such a mother receive if convicted? 

As a mother:

• Should all Brenda's minor children be removed from her care due to her failure to protect them - even though the perpetrator has now been removed?
• Would prosecution and a possible prison sentence for Brenda be beneficial for her minor children?
• Would foster care be beneficial for the minor children while their mother serves her sentence?

1 hour ago, Stpauligirlmn said:

Imho, Jair is every bit as creepy and domineering as his father.  At 23 years of age, he "told on" his 24 year old sister, who suffered a beating as a result.  A responsible parent would kick him out of the house, to protect the younger children, and help him find a therapist.  Boys learn domestic violence from their fathers.  

Oh, so he is an abuser?  Just like that.  Want to prosecute him too? 

I certainly agree that the whole family needs extensive therapy. 

Domestic violence is not limited to men abusing women and children.  Men can also be victims.  Also, being a victim of child abuse is merely a risk factor for abuse by adults.  It is certainly not a predictor of violence in adults.  Many children who have been horribly abused grow up to be wonderful parents.

Finally, and not to be unkind, I have no reason to doubt that you are, in fact, a lawyer.  However, an irate new poster brandishing a JD straight out of the gate tends to make me a little cautious.  You would be surprised how many new posters claim professional qualifications that they got from Google university.  We've uncovered quite a few fake lawyers, fake nurses, and fake psychologists over the years.  Give them time and something always seems to trip them up.  

[luv2laugh]

Do we know what happened to the $100 million that Toby won in the settlement? It was the largest settlement given in the state of Illinois and allowed Toby to never have to work a day in his life.

[Beermeet]

@Palimpsest  Super off topic but I just thought of something funny/ridiculous.   I've been known to talk about my dentistry knowlege in regards to Derick or offer advice to posters.  What if I was lying?  How funny and weird would that be?  Who TF fakes dental knowledge or working in said field?!  "We even had some weirdo pretend to be a dental assistant".  Hahaha!   I think I just need some comic relief.  This is all immensely disturbing and horrible.

4 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

Do we know what happened to the $100 million that Toby won in the settlement? It was the largest settlement given in the state of Illinois and allowed Toby to never have to work a day in his life.

How did he even get that much money?  100 million?!  That is a ton of money.

[formergothardite]

5 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

Who TF fakes dental knowledge or working in said field?!  "We even had some weirdo pretend to be a dental assistant".  Hahaha!   I think I just need some comic relief.  This is all immensely disturbing and horrible.

We had someone fake being a concentration camp guard. So a fake dental assistant would be weird, but sadly not the weirdest. 

[Beermeet]

7 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

We had someone fake being a concentration camp guard. So a fake dental assistant would be weird, but sadly not the weirdest. 

Yes, read about that.  Maybe weird is not the word.  Lame is more like it. The lamest.

[Palimpsest]

22 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

Do we know what happened to the $100 million that Toby won in the settlement? It was the largest settlement given in the state of Illinois and allowed Toby to never have to work a day in his life.

Actually, the settlement was made to Toby's parents, not to Toby.  http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1999-08-27/news/9908270161_1_mini-van-wrongful-death-case-settlement

It is unclear whether they ever collected the full amount, nor is it clear that Toby and the other surviving children got any of it.  I don't think Toby's parents have commented publicly on Toby's arrest or sentence.

If Toby got a share of the settlement he may have blown through it.  The family had a fairly extravagant lifestyle.  Also, Toby was represented by a public defender, which implies that he had no money to pay for an attorney.

Someone put up a GoFundMe for Brenda and family fairly recently.  While people put up GFMs all the time, the person who put it up seemed to think that they had very little money.

@Beermeet, the fake concentration camp guard wasn't light relief but if you want some fun - Maltese Baby's fake RN, fake psychology PhD, genius baby, 6 weddings that were better than anyone else's, gated community, and the 5 figure constipated fish will be a joy forever.  She may have been a model too.  Or that might have been DGayle.

[Beermeet]

@Palimpsest  thanks!  This was poster not a fundie right?  I've heard tell of a constipated fish on here.....hahaha.  constipated fish.  Good band name.

[feministxtian]

Damn, I need to step up my game...I'm just a dumbass mechanical/piping designer and occasional project manager. Can I change that to rocket scientist? 

[Anonymousguest]

21 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

Damn, I need to step up my game...I'm just a dumbass mechanical/piping designer and occasional project manager. Can I change that to rocket scientist? 

Never too late for a career change, right? Just an art teacher here. Doesn't come in handy all that often during discussions on FJ. I should have picked lawyer or psychologist. Or maybe theologian. 

[feministxtian]

2 minutes ago, Anonymousguest said:

Never too late for a career change, right? Just an art teacher here. Doesn't come in handy all that often during discussions on FJ. I should have picked lawyer or psychologist. Or maybe theologian. 

Well, I am one class shy of a bachelor's in biblical studies...I really need to finish. 

And an art teacher is a pretty cool job...my high school art teacher is the one who turned me on to watercolor painting...

[Stpauligirlmn]

Well, Im torn between actually responding to Plimpest, or just letting it go.  My field is insurance coverage and defense and I obviously cannot prove im a lawyer.  For any other lawyers out there, i refer you to the hairy hand from 1L.

It is likely the DA didnt prosecute because they had shakey evidence and an extraordinarily sympathetic defendant.  That doesnt make her innocent, just unconvictable.  I suspect very, very few white women are convicted of neglect and endangerment, but put a little more melonin in her skin and she`d do 5-10 in a heart beat.

You dont fail to send someone to prison because it would not be beneficial to the kids.  How many kids would benefit from having their mother in prison?  You send someone to prison for breaking the law and for retribution.  Her sentence should following sentencing guidelines.  Foster care would be horrible for the kids.  She really should have thought of that.

I think Jair should see a therapist "just like that."  Maybe it would help him.  

Finally I never lobbied for Brenda Willis to be prosecuted.  I didnt know until Jessica's post that Brenda Willis' statement was a lie.  I dont plan to lobby the DA in the future.  That's on me.

[Beermeet]

@Palimpsest  Your sniffer is on point!