The Willis Family: Rape Charges Part 2

[refugee]

Took a break from this topic, so I’m going back to something from October: the “spider sense.” I don’t know if I never had it or if it got desensitized.

Is it possible to cultivate it?

...but then, I don’t read people well at all. I was told I did as a kid, but it’s a mystery to me now.

Because I don’t have that sense myself, I always have listened to my kids’ uneasy feelings. They had this keyword they used that meant “creepy” and that was my cue to pay closer attention.

I’ve also been blessed with a series of protective dogs who let me know when they think someone is “off.”

[DaisyD]

Dogs definitely have it, you just have to learn to read it. Mine will bark and sniff at everyone. If the one that's super protective of me cuts that short to come sit on my feet, that's the cue.

Learning to read people is possible. I don't know if it's really related to the creeper vibe though. That's more in the gut. I just get super uncomfortable around people for no apparent reason. My husband has a friend like that. I told him once and he said "Oh, you mean Creepy Trevor? Yeah, he gives off that vibe." 

[EmmieJ]

Sometimes, I get a bad feeling in a situation or from another person.  I never question it but get away as soon! as possible.  I raised my son to trust his gut instinct as well.  

I wish this family only well.  It sounds like they are very close and supportive.  

[GeoBQn]

You can try reading "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker.  Be forewarned that the author has a blindspot when it comes to domestic violence.

[mstee]

Do we know if the oldest daughter Jessica still engaged? I thought she was when this story broke. 

The family seems to be handling this very dark situation well. 

[justmy2cents]

5 minutes ago, mstee said:

Do we know if the oldest daughter Jessica still engaged? I thought she was when this story broke. 

She got married. Seems it was sometime in the summer, maybe earlier.

[jakesykora]

9 hours ago, GeoBQn said:

You can try reading "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker.  Be forewarned that the author has a blindspot when it comes to domestic violence.

I second that suggestion book wise! Parts, in particular, should almost be required reading (if there were such a thing).

[Front Hugging Fiend]

On 2/2/2018 at 7:54 AM, Hisey said:

I know. It is so interesting. How did Brenda have the intelligence and strength to protect her children while so many other women do not? From what I can see, she is doing everything right.

Except for staying with him in the first place. I know she did not know about the rapes, but I doubt Toby was a kind, caring father during the day. I suspect there was a lot of emotional and physical abuse. The reason she stayed with him probably has a lot to do with women like Lori Alexander, convincing her it would be wrong and/or hurt the children.

I am so glad she is letting those children heal now, instead of guilting them into denial or minimizing what happened.

Love can blind people from the truth. I think if I had married my highschool sweetheart and built a home and thought he was the best thing that ever happened to me, there's every chance that my love for him would pull the wool over my eyes and I wouldn't see who he truly is or the awful things he might do. 

My guess is that she had absolutely no idea, didn't see any warning signs because she was blinded by her love for her (demon) husband, but her love for her children is stronger than that and as soon as the truth came out, Mama Bear came through and fought for her kids first. 

It takes an immense amount of strength to do that. I am in awe of her strength. I watched the interview and read the article and Jair, Jenny, Jet, Jackson, Jedi and Jasmine all seem to be in a good place. Still healing of course, and it's obviously been a traumatic and painful experience. But they've said firmly that they took the time to heal together and write music and seek help, and I'm so happy they did. 

 

The article also mentioned how Toby would choose his daughters clothes - I remember watching that on a clip on YouTube but they had framed it as 'seeing if clothes were appropriate'. This seems even more sinister and awful now. Jackson made a comment in the interview that he had thought about interactions with family members in the past and not understood them or found them strange and that when the truth came out, it all made sense. My heart hurts for those girls, and watching their brother's faces in that interview, you can tell they are absolutely wrecked by waht happened to their sisters. 

As a victim of childhood sexual assault myself, this whole ordeal has been somewhat confronting but I felt the truth in everything those girls said and it is so comforting to see them doing so well. 

 

 

[Glasgowghirl]

I'm glad they stepped away from the limelight and have had some time to try and heal from what happened, Toby is where he belongs and I'm glad Brenda believed her daughters, too many people fundie and non fundie don't. 

I wish them all well and hopefully the fact they are speaking about it openly may help others escape their abuse or report it. 

[Eclipse]

Listening to your own gut reaction/instincts is great and listening to your kids cues or concerns that someone is creepy/making them feel uncomfortable is important. But please, please, please also remember that a lot of abusers and pedophiles don't come across as creepy, domineering, unsettling or controlling. A lot of pedophiles are able to abuse their victims because they are suave, personable and charming; they get the adults and children to trust and like them first. I dealt with too many situations when I practiced family law where abuse was hard to prove because the abuser charmed everyone who was investigating or the kids themselves. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

On 2/2/2018 at 7:41 PM, SweetLaurel said:

Oh wow.  I never once thought his daughters.  Because - who would?  But wow.....  I'm so in awe of their strength - wonder how it came out finally?  So glad it did.  

  Jett looks amazingly happy - hope she - and the rest of them really finally are!   

When it first came out, I knew in my heart it was one of his daughters. I hadn't ever suspected sexual abuse but he did seem controlling and homeschool families are so cloistered that my mind immediately went to one of his children. It's horrible that it's actually four of them and they all thought they were the only ones. 

 

On 2/1/2018 at 4:01 PM, Nikedagain? said:

I wonder if Toby's parents and siblings are supportive of Brenda and the kids? Or did they pull and Cap'n Bret and Jackie? 

His younger siblings all died in a car fire back in the 1990s and the family was awarded money from a law suit. His two surviving siblings have 13 and 9 kids. I wonder what his two siblings and parents think as well. I wonder if they are supporting Brenda in all this. I really hope so but who knows. Like you said, they could pull a Captain Bret.

https://www.google.com/amp/wgntv.com/2014/11/06/tragedy-to-triumph-the-willis-family-20-years-after-the-van-crash-that-claimed-6-of-their-9-children/amp/

[Carm_88]

That's horrible. I hope that they all take the time to continue to get all the help that they need. Toby is a monster! 

[Englandgirl2491]

Does anyone know anything about Jess or Jet's husbands, Jenny's fiancé or Jedi's girlfriend? Ages?

[FrumperedCat]

According to google and facebook Jet married a fellow named Cory Piatt. The picture is a public one from FB.

It also appears Jenny's husband is Sean McDowell. They have a password protected TheKnot site.

[faraway]

On 11.2.2018 at 3:10 AM, Englandgirl2491 said:

Does anyone know anything about Jess or Jet's husbands, Jenny's fiancé or Jedi's girlfriend? Ages?

Jenny's fiancé and Jedi's girlfriend are siblings. I don't know the ages but I believe Jedi's gf Laney is at least his own age (18). The family seems religious but non-homeschooling and university-attending so I guess that's a plus.

[Eternalbluepearl]

I can't seem to get over how awful this story is. HOW could a parent do this to their children? I just don't understand and my heart breaks. 

[MorningMist]

On 11/02/2018 at 2:10 AM, Englandgirl2491 said:

Does anyone know anything about Jess or Jet's husbands, Jenny's fiancé or Jedi's girlfriend? Ages?

I know Cory is 22, his band post something about it on his last birthday

[amendgitan]

Years ago I saw a video of two of the siblings dancing and I commented that the dancing seemed somewhat boundary crossing to me for siblings  and made me feel uncomfortable. I know siblings perform various things together but the suggestive hip movements and looks between them as well as the way the girl was held just seemed a bit off to me. 

I was soundly criticized for voicing those feelings. But in retrospect, I think my sense was right.  It was not a feeling that abuse or inappropriateness was occurring between the siblings and it's certainly not about me being conservative (I'm far from it) but there was just something in the dancing that was a red flag for me and it did cause me to suddenly wonder if there was some dynamic occurring with the dad because often family dysfunction leads to blurred boundaries in general in other areas.  

I'm glad to see the daughters are viewing themselves as survivors rather than victims and are determined to have a happy life despite the past. 

I always wonder how that's possible when someone has been abused in such a way as a child. How do people who were so terribly abused have normal relationships with partners later on without being retraumatized every time they are intimate? 

I always feared that wasn't possible but it seems it is somehow and I'm so glad. They deserve that freedom from trauma  

One of the brothers said in the DM article that he may be open to contact with the creep at some point saying "I would want someone to help me if I made a mistake." 

My only comment to any of these people if I had the opportunity would be that repeatedly taking your young daughters out of their beds and raping them for years is not a "mistake".  A mistake is putting too much salt on your food.

Hopefully this was just a poor choice of words and not a belief about the reality of what his father did. 

[Nikedagain?]

5 hours ago, amendgitan said:

One of the brothers said in the DM article that he may be open to contact with the creep at some point saying "I would want someone to help me if I made a mistake." 

My only comment to any of these people if I had the opportunity would be that repeatedly taking your young daughters out of their beds and raping them for years is not a "mistake".  A mistake is putting too much salt on your food.

Whooooaaa! 

Big leap there! 

[Hisey]

I also felt that the sibling dancing together was inappropriate. It was the way they danced, sort of imitating romantic dancers. I'm sure they were coached to do this, and their intentions were innocent, but it made me uncomfortable. Plus, these were teenage boys who were homeschooled, dancing in an intimate way with teenage siblings for hours at a time, while being forbidden to date. . . talk about stirring up unrighteous feelings! It seemed wrong to put teenagers in such a position.

[Lurky]

We have rules about not speculating on the identity of victims here, but wow, I think it's in extremely poor taste, and super-offensive, to start throwing out accusations that the Willis children are also abusers/having inappropriate relationships with each other.  Especially based on seeing a clip of them dancing!  I can't even imagine how horrible it would be to be the child of an abuser, let alone a victim, and see not-so-subtle innuendoes about your relationships with your siblings.  We should be so much better than that.

[Hisey]

1 hour ago, Lurky said:

We have rules about not speculating on the identity of victims here, but wow, I think it's in extremely poor taste, and super-offensive, to start throwing out accusations that the Willis children are also abusers/having inappropriate relationships with each other.  Especially based on seeing a clip of them dancing!  I can't even imagine how horrible it would be to be the child of an abuser, let alone a victim, and see not-so-subtle innuendoes about your relationships with your siblings.  We should be so much better than that.

We are better than that. I said the dancing made me uncomfortable. I said they were coached to imitate the sort of dancing romantic partners do. I said they were isolated and then forced to act "romantic" with opposite sex siblings while at age when their sexuality was at a peak, and that this seemed very wrong and confusing to them. This is all the fault of their parents. They were obviously terrified of their abusive, rapist father who played to what he thought audiences wanted.

I don't think anyone said those kids were having "inappropriate relations". Ick. Why would you think that? Frankly, I would have felt weird if I had been forced to dance "romantically" with my 16-year old brother when I was 15, for hours of practice, day after day. It would have made me feel uncomfortalbe and weird. There should be boundaries between sibings, and their rapist-father forced them to cross them.

[samurai_sarah]

1 hour ago, Lurky said:

We have rules about not speculating on the identity of victims here, but wow, I think it's in extremely poor taste, and super-offensive, to start throwing out accusations that the Willis children are also abusers/having inappropriate relationships with each other.  Especially based on seeing a clip of them dancing!  I can't even imagine how horrible it would be to be the child of an abuser, let alone a victim, and see not-so-subtle innuendoes about your relationships with your siblings.  We should be so much better than that.

Thank you! Sometimes the eye of the beholder says more about the beholder than the people they observe.

[Four is Enough]

2 hours ago, Hisey said:

 Frankly, I would have felt weird if I had been forced to dance "romantically" with my 16-year old brother when I was 15, for hours of practice, day after day. It would have made me feel uncomfortalbe and weird. There should be boundaries between sibings, and their rapist-father forced them to cross them.

I think this is a valid point. I think many people would feel uncomfortable at this, and would not want to do it. And it can be a competitive brother sister act without sexual innuendo.. the american brother sister dance skate team proved that at this Olympics. They were appealing, athletic, had style, grace, and told a story on the ice, without sex entering into it at all. The other couples were at least selling romance, but the Americans kept it non romantic, but just as compelling.

[Fascinated]

There have been brother-sister teams in the competitive dance world forever. The Houghs from Dancing With the Stars are probably the most well-known pair. Dancing does not suddenly stir up romantic feelings between siblings.  I did ballroom dancing as a child and can assure you that dancing with a brother is just dancing with a brother.