The Willis Family: Rape Charges Part 2

[SweetLaurel]

I always wonder about their money.   If Tobey got a part of that settlement from when his siblings were killed.   If I got that kind of settlement I'd sure share with my kids, I think most people would.  So surely he got some of it -   but if so - why were they all but homeless?   Very strange.    

Hope the kids have a settled life and they all get to have a bit more freedom to do what they want.  

[evolutionbaby]

40 minutes ago, SweetLaurel said:

If Tobey got a part of that settlement from when his siblings were killed.   If I got that kind of settlement I'd sure share with my kids, I think most people would. 

IIRC, I did watch the Willis Clan show, and I think he did get some of the money, but I think that they lost everything in their house fire. They owned a lot of land and were planning on rebuilding, but I remember in the show it didn't seem like they had enough money to rebuild at the time. 

[clueliss]

The impression I had watching the show is that the focus was on the family act rather than rebuilding so they kept renting homes.  There was a who.e weird discussion on what to do with the land and what to build.  One big house or divide it.  Build a studio or not.  

[Four is Enough]

I wonder if the family band was Toby's idea. I think it's pretty unusual for the entire family to be all inclined the same way. Perhaps that's why Brenda stopped the appearances? Well, that and she didn't want the questions.

[IrishCarrie]

Can I ask if forty years is a fairly typical prison sentence for these type of offences in the USA? It seems staggeringly high to me - in Ireland, even for offences as horrific as these, it'd be more usual for a prison sentence to run from maybe seven to fifteen years, with a number of years Probation supervision after release into the community. 

I'm not for a second saying that the American sentencing practises are wrong or too harsh! - just curious as to whether it'd be a typical sentence all across the US?.....

[Dandruff]

I wonder what kind of prison he'll be sent to and what will happen if/when other inmates find out what he's there for.

[Jess]

18 minutes ago, IrishCarrie said:

Can I ask if forty years is a fairly typical prison sentence for these type of offences in the USA? It seems staggeringly high to me - in Ireland, even for offences as horrific as these, it'd be more usual for a prison sentence to run from maybe seven to fifteen years, with a number of years Probation supervision after release into the community. 

I'm not for a second saying that the American sentencing practises are wrong or too harsh! - just curious as to whether it'd be a typical sentence all across the US?.....

It varies a lot state by state even county by county and judge by judge. Their must have been strong evidence against him. Sometimes the case is weak and the plea offer is less years the thought being rather lock him up for some time and get him on a registry than risk no time and no criminal record. In some states repeat sex offenders can be subject to civil commitment after their prison sentences. 

[evolutionbaby]

4 hours ago, clueliss said:

The impression I had watching the show is that the focus was on the family act rather than rebuilding so they kept renting homes.  There was a who.e weird discussion on what to do with the land and what to build.  One big house or divide it.  Build a studio or not.  

If that's the case, and the family really does have money, I hope Brenda divorces him and he dies penniless, alone, and in jail.

[Eve]

I remember when the settlement happened ( I was in school and it was pretty big news). The case settled just before they were scheduled to go to trial and the three adult surviving children (along with their parents) were all parties to the lawsuit. Since it was an out of court settlement I don't think there was any information on exactly how the money was divided but it's reasonable to believe they all got a share. 

Also, shortly after the settlement, they bought the Randy Travis house that burned down in Nashville. I assume that would not be something they could afford pre settlement. I think Toby also started or tried to start some sort of pro wrestling league which must have cost money. No idea how much money would be left 18 years later - hopefully enough that money is not something Brenda has to worry about too much at least for now.

As for the sentence, it does definitely vary state by state and case by case. With the new info about the timeline of the incidents - the fact that it apparently went on over a period of 11 years- getting him off the street basically forever is not totally unusual.

I'm glad he's no longer out on the streets with access to any children and won't be anytime soon. My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims. Hard as it may be, I hope they can find peace. 

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, IrishCarrie said:

Can I ask if forty years is a fairly typical prison sentence for these type of offences in the USA?

 

As @Jess and @Evesaid there is a lot of variation.  One of our FJ lawyers can probably answer that question better than I.

I am getting the impression that as public opinion changes and there is far less tolerance of crimes against children, especially sexual crimes, judges are more likely to give longer sentences.  There is still some leeway.  Toby Willis was charged with 4 Class A Felonies.  By my reading, he could have been given as much as 60 years for each one although there was a minimum sentence of 15 years for each.  

This is a good synopsis from RAINN (Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network) for Tennessee.  You can compare the different states' definitions and penalties on this site too.

https://apps.rainn.org/policy/policy-crime-definitions.cfm?state=Tennessee&group=3

I'll also note that in TN incest is a Class C felony.  There is no mention of incest in the indictment and it would definitely have been listed as an extra charge if there were any evidence.

5 minutes ago, Eve said:

The case settled just before they were scheduled to go to trial and the three adult surviving children (along with their parents) were all parties to the lawsuit. Since it was an out of court settlement I don't think there was any information on exactly how the money was divided but it's reasonable to believe they all got a share. 

That makes sense.  Thanks for the additional information.

[hoipolloi]

29 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

I am getting the impression that as public opinion changes and there is far less tolerance of crimes against children, especially sexual crimes, judges are more likely to give longer sentences.

Also, in some states, final sentencing terms for imprisonment can be up to the state's parole board, after conviction & ruling by a judge.

The parole board is bound by the court's guidance & a state's law in these matters but has some discretion in determining the length of a sentence and the timing of when a prisoner comes up for a parole hearing, if that applies to a given case.

[JermajestyDuggar]

3 hours ago, IrishCarrie said:

Can I ask if forty years is a fairly typical prison sentence for these type of offences in the USA? It seems staggeringly high to me - in Ireland, even for offences as horrific as these, it'd be more usual for a prison sentence to run from maybe seven to fifteen years, with a number of years Probation supervision after release into the community. 

I'm not for a second saying that the American sentencing practises are wrong or too harsh! - just curious as to whether it'd be a typical sentence all across the US?.....

I personally think that US sentences can be harsher than sentences in Britain and Ireland. But that's just from my own observations. 

Like PP said, it can vary a lot based on state but I think our sentences can be pretty long compared to other countries like Canada and U.K.

[Four is Enough]

Agreed. There is no "typical" sentence. Someone I knew casually was accused of molesting a 9 year old, got four years.

[calimojo]

From the very first episode of that show, Toby gave off creepy vibes.  Very Controlling. 

Brenda didn't seem like a passive person, or a pushove. They may have leaned fundie, but not the same type as Michelle Duggar.  I don't recall them doing talking heads together much and there was no adoring stare at her headship. 

I remember the oldest son gave weird vibes too.  He seemed to have an angry undertone all the time.  Of course it wasn't surprising to me at the time, as there was a clear amount of dysfunction even without knowing this awful story. 

Brenda strikes me as her own woman.  I think she will survive this as well as anyone, and she has enough older kids around that they can help out financially should the family be without an income. 

 

While I think Toby is horrible, and I didn't really enjoy their show, I will say that I think they did make some lovely music.  If music really is the passion of any of them,  I hope they will be able to continue with their music after some time to heal.  I don't think the kids got much choice about being in the family band.  So it could be that music will remind them too much of their dad. 

 

[snarkopolis]

. Sentences depend on where the crime was committed. Each state has its' own guidelines. Some states have mandatory minimum sentences, some do not. Usually there is a range and the judge CAN go outside the guidelines as long as they say why in the sentencing. There is also a presentencing report. IT will be an evaluation of the defendant and what s/he prognosis for not reoffending will be. Lots of factors to use in sentencing

[calimojo]

I saw on some willis family tumblr  that the oldest girl Jessica and the oldest boy "jair" were playing with another guy at some music festival.  I don't think it was publicized that they were there, but someone posted pictures.  Hopefully the kids who want to stay in music are having the chance to do that. 

I think some of the kids were more into dancing than they were the band.  They did a version of Irish dancing and also swing and partnered country style dancing.  I have no idea if they were considered to have good technique or not, but apparently the oldest boy and one of the older girls, (Jenny?) were running a dance studio for awhile, but then gave it up because I think they may have been pestered by people going there trying to get the scoop on the dad. 

[Palimpsest]

7 hours ago, calimojo said:

someone posted pictures

 

8 hours ago, calimojo said:

I think they may have been pestered by people going there trying to get the scoop on the dad. 

That is really sad.  I really wish people would let the family have the privacy they have requested.  Let them pursue their interests and careers in peace without taking photos and pestering them.

it was Toby's ambition that put them in the spotlight, Toby's overweening ego who put them on TV, and Toby's crimes that took the family down.  They didn't chose to have a child rapist for a father. 

[Nikedagain?]

On 7/15/2017 at 0:18 PM, Dandruff said:

I wonder what kind of prison he'll be sent to and what will happen if/when other inmates find out what he's there for.

Much worse than we all suspected. Ughhh.

I hope it's an awful place and he SUFFERS daily. (Like one that makes Oz look like a theme park kind of place!)

 He's such an arrogant asshole, I am sure he didn't confess too willingly, probably still making excuses about his mental health etc.

 They should break him pretty quickly. 

[Buzzard]

On 7/15/2017 at 0:12 PM, IrishCarrie said:

Can I ask if forty years is a fairly typical prison sentence for these type of offences in the USA? It seems staggeringly high to me - in Ireland, even for offences as horrific as these, it'd be more usual for a prison sentence to run from maybe seven to fifteen years, with a number of years Probation supervision after release into the community. 

I'm not for a second saying that the American sentencing practises are wrong or too harsh! - just curious as to whether it'd be a typical sentence all across the US?.....

If he had gone to trial I would have expected a sentence equivalent to life.  This result is pretty fair for a plea.

40 years, for this number of victims is pretty standard across the states, especially given the ages of the victims.

[Phoenix]

I don't have experience with length of sentences for sexual offenders across the US but the cases I knew about personally the jail terms were much too short. Ex-in law was engaged to a repeat offender who was a significant player in one of the biggest child sex rings in state history. He was out for that in less than 10 years. He was re-incarcerated for just five years after raping his own daughter for 15 years. Ex in-law was crazy as a hatter and fell for all his lies. He never did time for molesting his vulnerable elderly future mother-in-law. Neither did his fiance's grandson for molesting his half-sibling. 

Consequently I am relieved Toby Willis got such a long and well deserved sentence. Too often justice is a pipe dream for victims of sexual assault, especially children. It frequently seems as if the legal system protects the molesters much more than the victims. I couldn't get a single mandatory reporter to do their jobs around my exes niece. (Yes I did report. It was ignored.)

[Gobbles]

I think a huge difference is that the sentences add up in the states, whereas here in Germany (and I guess other European countries) they don't. So imagine you kill three people. In the US you get 20 (???) years for one, so 60 for all of them. Here in Germany you can only get 15 years once. (Not sure on that, but I think I heard that somewhere.)

[Black Aliss]

1 hour ago, Gobbles said:

I think a huge difference is that the sentences add up in the states, whereas here in Germany (and I guess other European countries) they don't. So imagine you kill three people. In the US you get 20 (???) years for one, so 60 for all of them. Here in Germany you can only get 15 years once. (Not sure on that, but I think I heard that somewhere.)

Not quite. A judge can order sentences to be served consecutively, or concurrently. The length of the sentence for a felony is highly variable, depending on state laws, the accused's skin color and/or socioeconomic status and prior criminal record, and the whim of the judge.

So, with the right lawyer and a different judge, Toby might have gotten off with just a couple of years in jail, or less.

[Palimpsest]

^^^ Already reported for speculation about victims.  

Which is against the RULES!

Quote

No speculation on victims of sexual assault/incest/molestation/rape

DO NOT speculate on the identity of any victims/survivors or incest/molestation/rape/sexual assault.

Unless a victim or survivor has put their identity into the public sphere as a victim of a sexual assault, do not speculate on whether they may be a victim.

Posts containing speculation of this type will be hidden or redacted, depending on the other content in the post.  If you see a post that contains this type of speculation, please report it.  We can read every post in every thread, so we do rely on community self-policing.

We respect the agency of victims of sexual assault and will not be part of thrusting them into the spotlight they may not want any part of.   There will be one zero point warning given for this offense.  Any repeat offenses will result in a trip to the Prayer Closet for an indefinite period of time.

 

[samurai_sarah]

Public service announcement, and just as a reminder (!): No speculation on victims of sexual assault/incest/molestation/rape. Desist! Do not do it! Seriously! Saves you getting warning points, and me a whole lot of work.

 

[SuhrEnity]

I "know" some people (as much as you can know people on the internet that is which is obviously almost not at all really ) from a message board who I have interacted with for several years now who live where the Willis's live and I remember when the show first started airing they had ALOT to say about Toby. Like a lot. And the crux of what they had to say revolved around rumours of this happening and the names of the victims and the years. They could tell you about interactions with the family and the things they'd seen in family interactions that raised suspicions for people who came into contact with them. I remember reading their posts which were pretty detailed and thinking "wow people will say anything to pretend they know someone on tv or to make things up". Then this news hit and it was so spot on - dates, names, details, everything was bang on and I had to eat crow because literally everything they said was bang on before any of this broke. I was really shook.

I truly hope Brenda and all her kids heal from this and go on to live happy, healthy lives. I cannot imagine what this must be like and how much she must blame herself even if she had no knowledge. So so heartbreaking.

I hope this doesn't violate anything.