The Seewalds, Part 10: Having my baby

[Mozzie]

9 hours ago, Mercer said:

The embryos come from people who used fertility treatments who ended up with more embryos than they want to use to create their own family. Instead of leaving them in permanent storage or having them destroyed, they voluntarily donate them to other families who "adopt" them... typically with great fanfare about saving their "lives" and very little tough conversation about why these embryos ended up in that position in the first place.

I remember in my school days in religious education/philosophy class studying what different faiths thought of abortion and IVF and the textbook noted 'without testing of embryos and their eventual disposal, the medical research to create IVF (which is also still going on to create new treatments) would never have been possible. However many pro-life groups believe this is wrong and such research shouldn't continue.' 

[Mozzie]

22 hours ago, patsymae said:

I don't know what that means

CharlieInCharge, thanks for the explanation.

Here's a quote from Richard Dawkins' 'The God Delusion' which taught me what 'Snowflake adoption' is, to give some food for thought on the forum.

"Slippery slope arguments might be seen as a way in which consequentialists can reimport a form of indirect absolutism. But the religious foes of abortion don't bother with slippery slopes. For them, the issue is much simpler. An embryo is a 'baby', killing it is murder, and that's that: end of discussion. Much follows from this absolutist stance. For a start, embryonic stem-cell research must cease, despite its huge potential for medical science, because it entails the deaths of embryonic cells. The inconsistency is apparent when you reflect that society already accepts IVF (in vitro fertilization), in which doctors routinely stimulate women to produce surplus eggs, to be fertilized outside the body. As many as a dozen viable zygotes may be produced, of which two or three are then implanted in the uterus. The expectation is that, of these, only one or possibly two will survive. IVF, therefore, kills conceptuses at two stages of the procedure, and society in general has no problem with this. For twenty-five years, IVF has been a standard procedure for bringing joy into the lives of childless couples.

Religious absolutists, however, can have problems with IVF. The Guardian of 3 June 2005 carried a bizarre story under the headline 'Christian couples answer call to save embryos left by IVF'. The story is about an organization called Snowflakes which seeks to 'rescue' surplus embryos left over at IVF clinics. 'We really felt like the Lord was calling us to try to give one of these embryos - these children - a chance to live,' said a woman in Washington State, whose fourth child resulted from this 'unexpected alliance that conservative Christians have been forming with the world of test-tube babies'. Worried about that alliance, her husband had consulted a church elder, who advised, 'If you want to free the slaves, you sometimes have to make a deal with the slave trader.' I wonder what these people would say if they knew that the majority of conceived embryos spontaneously abort anyway. It is probably best seen as a kind of natural 'quality control'."

[Carm_88]

I've never had a baby but I would think that the main thing is that Mom and baby are safe and come out of it healthy and alive. I would hope that means that if you have a midwife that they have training and certification. Meaning that if they are over their heads, they will say that they are and that you will get the care that you need. I have nothing against midwives as long as they aren't the quacks that the Duggars seem to love. Hospital, birth centre, home birth whatever works for you as long as it's safe! 

[HarleyQuinn]

I'm shocked to hear that coming from Ben. Good for him, he still has a long ways to go but that's a good start.

I wonder if Flame schooled him on the Black Lives Matter movement or something?

[Jinder Roles]

I don't see it mentioned anywhere yet but Ben made this post on instagram yesterday... 

 On the one hand I'm glad Ben is becoming woke, probably from association with Flame. Of the Duggar in-laws looks like he's the one that's maturing in his ideas the most (I don't have a take on Jeremy yet) 

On the other hand I'm so tired of white people being praised for acknowledging structural inequalities. Like thanks for finally saying it, we've been telling y'all about this shit for centuries. Actually, I'm not sure Ben is acknowledging systemic racism, just the blatant racist and harsh comments that come from a lot of white conservative Christians regarding BLM and race relations in America. 

If Ben's gonna talk about empathy but then campaign for Trump, vilify women who get abortions (this affects so many WOCs), try to "save" the inner-city with his terrible rapping and generally go on with the white saviour bullshit then honestly his newfound "empathy" is still extremely problematic and he can go shove it up his ass. 

Not meaning to sound harsh. There's a lot of unlearning, re-learning and humbling we all have to do when becoming aware of our privileges and learning to be useful allies. I'm just skeptical... it's like when Ben tried to talk about racism in an earlier video and made it a "let's be more godly" thing instead of a "let's take a serious look at structural systems of oppression" thing. Or the time he told girls to respect themselves instead of talking about misogyny. 

I hope Benye continues to become more socially conscious and mindful. And that he's really putting in the mental work to understand instead of writing a 'sympathetic' post and then doing the same old ignorant shit. 

Ok, rant over. 

p.s: I've never thought Ben was dim, just a little awkward on camera and inarticulate. 

[HarryPotterFan]

16 hours ago, Chevreuil said:

 -snip-

where i live, there are limited options so i either get the shitastic local hospital or the teaching hospital where they tend to be less experienced and dont listen when i tell them my bladder is full so i TMI ended up peeing in the doctor's face.  

 Well that's what they get for not listening!! That's hilarious. But it's a lesson they needed to learn! Listen to your patient!

Teaching hospitals are interesting. Once I made an appointment for a knee injury, and the resident performing the exam before the attending came in couldn't get a good grip on my leg so he put my foot between his legs. I struggled not to laugh and was so tempted to say, "I have no medical training but I'm pretty sure you're doing that wrong." Other than that I've had good experiences at that hospital, lol. A lot also depends on what time of year you go as well (new residents start July 1, they tend not to know things).

[Percy]

In Australia interns start in February and the others rotate up so all are new to their positions.  If possible do not plan a hospital visit in February.  

[VelociRapture]

@Jinder RolesThe post was mentioned somewhere on the site. 

I give him credit for at least thinking about the subject beyond a basic level. He was raised in a fairly sheltered environment and married into a family that isn't exactly known for being liberal thinkers. So, while I likely wouldn't give other white people (myself included) praise for a post like this, I will give Ben a bit of credit.

As for supporting Trump - I thought he hadn't declared for any candidate and that he had made some statements that implied he wasn't enthusiastic about Trump becoming President. I know Hipster Jesus said he's voting Trump - because he's a twatwaffle - but that doesn't mean Ben will too.

(The rest of your post I agree with though. I want to think he's at least trying, but it doesn't mean much if he doesn't assess his views and opinions on the other issues you mentioned because they do have a major impact on black and minority communities.)

[Chevreuil]

6 hours ago, HarryPotterFan said:

 Well that's what they get for not listening!! That's hilarious. But it's a lesson they needed to learn! Listen to your patient!

Teaching hospitals are interesting. Once I made an appointment for a knee injury, and the resident performing the exam before the attending came in couldn't get a good grip on my leg so he put my foot between his legs. I struggled not to laugh and was so tempted to say, "I have no medical training but I'm pretty sure you're doing that wrong." Other than that I've had good experiences at that hospital, lol. A lot also depends on what time of year you go as well (new residents start July 1, they tend not to know things).

They tried to tell me i couldnt feel it because i had an epidural! Haha 

There was another resident, she was obviously new, who came in with my chart while i was in labour. She starts talking to me about whether i was experiencing an outbreak of my herpes. I was like "HERPES?!?! I HAVE HERPES!?!?! NO ONE TOLD ME!!!" and she's trying to calm me down because obviously i am upset. Turns out, her french isnt the best and she read my medical history wrong. I do not have herpes (not that there is anything wrong with having it) and once they told me the mistake, i thought it was pretty funny.

[nst]

Perhaps Ben is more worried about he will be perceived as a preacher his real dream now that he is on television even before he went on television to get the girl.  

Now that he is on a normal tv show for him and veering off where he wants to be career wise  - he knows he is selling himself to the devil .  Whether he actually ever cared about Black lives or Hispanic lives before the show - he has access to people now with the TV show so he is trying to start something.... and how he sees himself on television could be affecting his views as well.   If you saw the clip for tonight's episode and all the older Duggars/Seewalds/Dillards are looking at them selves on tv - and if he doesn't like what he sees that could affect him.. I hope it affects them all that they realize they appear stupid.   Will they know.  Will they think it was good? 

If we saw ourselves being portrayed on television and it was so far from us and it was starting to kill us emotionally, I can see this happening to Ben, not so much Jessa because she is just herself...and doesn't have to do anything in life except help her family and give birth....

But it makes sense if you think about it - and I think i said it could happen down the line.... he is starting to emotionally perhaps think that this television show is not good for him  because he can't spew about black lives on television and if he did he would lose the tv show.   Derick wants to be a missionary - i doubt the SCA cares how he is perceived. 

[Jinder Roles]

@VelociRapture Definitely. Sorry, I was in a ranty mood last night, I swear I'm much nicer in real life.

 I am glad Ben is becoming a bit more self aware, especially considering his background. I was using Trump as a general example rather than Ben's personal beliefs. I was honestly thinking more about his sister (who is a special kind of ignorant) who also made a post about racism (it was stupid).

I guess I'm just weary. I see a lot of people - in social media and real life - make socially conscious posts, use progressive language etc. and then do the most ignorant/oppressive shit. And when you call them out on it they get defensive and refuse to do any self-evaluation. Kind of like when Caitlyn Jenner came out and everyone got behind her, expecting her to be a champion for the trans community and then she continued with her blatant classism and internalized queerphobia. Hopefully Ben is actually learning rather than just using this as an opportunity to tweak his image.

sidenote: I wonder how Blessa and his siblings feel about this. Also, Hipster Jesus is way worse than Benye. He's has a likeable easygoing personality but he's ideolgy is . IMO that's more dangerous.

[Mela99]

*Bin* is pointing out others for quick judgment and no empathy?  

[VelociRapture]

45 minutes ago, Jinder Roles said:

@VelociRapture Definitely. Sorry, I was in a ranty mood last night, I swear I'm much nicer in real life.

 I am glad Ben is becoming a bit more self aware, especially considering his background. I was using Trump as a general example rather than Ben's personal beliefs. I was honestly thinking more about his sister (who is a special kind of ignorant) who also made a post about racism (it was stupid).

I guess I'm just weary. I see a lot of people - in social media and real life - make socially conscious posts, use progressive language etc. and then do the most ignorant/oppressive shit. And when you call them out on it they get defensive and refuse to do any self-evaluation. Kind of like when Caitlyn Jenner came out and everyone got behind her, expecting her to be a champion for the trans community and then she continued with her blatant classism and internalized queerphobia. Hopefully Ben is actually learning rather than just using this as an opportunity to tweak his image.

sidenote: I wonder how Blessa and his siblings feel about this. Also, Hipster Jesus is way worse than Benye. He's has a likeable easygoing personality but he's ideolgy is . IMO that's more dangerous.

Don't apologize! You didn't say anything unwarranted or untrue. I'm white, so I can't get how frustrating and tedious it's got to be to deal with that type of crap all the time. I do really sympathize with you though and I agree that it's ridiculous when people say one thing and then do something that completely contradicts it. I honestly do hope that Ben is trying to learn and grow, not just make it look that way. He's young and seems to have a natural curiosity in one ways - so fingers crossed he is.

Caitlyn Jenner makes me crazy to be honest. I hate the fact that people are so horrible about her being Transgender and I defend her right to live authentically whenever necessary - but girlfriend doesn't make it easy to actually like her at all with the way she speaks and acts towards her new community. I try to remember she's new to this and she has about 60 years of thinking to undo. But still. Give me something to work with Cait!

And I'm starting to agree with your assessment on Derick more and more. He's more palatable personality wise and he does come across as a more natural and loving family man than Ben at times, but his ideology is downright scary in someways - I'm starting to wonder whether he's actually more rigid and strict with his beliefs than Ben is. I can't see Derick speaking about the people he harasses in CA the way Ben spoke about blacks and minorities in his post.

P.S. And I'm sure you're a very nice person too. 

[Carm_88]

38 minutes ago, Mela99 said:

*Bin* is pointing out others for quick judgment and no empathy?  

Mmm hmm. Never mind those poor Catholics that he fire and brimstoned. 

[Mela99]

39 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

Mmm hmm. Never mind those poor Catholics that he fire and brimstoned. 

I suppose he did clarify that it was only blacks and Hispanics "in the faith" .... which OBVIOUSLY excludes us ebil cat'licks... 

[Carm_88]

3 minutes ago, Mela99 said:

I suppose he did clarify that it was only blacks and Hispanics "in the faith" .... which OBVIOUSLY excludes us ebil cat'licks... 

Ah so true! Nice to see that he hasn't done a full 360 although it's good that he's using his brain a bit. 

[VineHeart137]

I hope I did the screenshot thing right... She looks smaller this time to me.

[Carm_88]

3 minutes ago, VineHeart137 said:

I hope I did the screenshot thing right... She looks smaller this time to me.

She looks smaller to me too. And I love that the speculation starts on boy or girl. 

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, VineHeart137 said:

I hope I did the screenshot thing right... She looks smaller this time to me.

A bit smaller. It's possible she's been trying to eat healthier this time around. Or the fact that she has a baby who is mobile could be playing a role - she could be moving around more trying to keep him out of trouble. 

[patsymae]

17 hours ago, Percy said:

In Australia interns start in February and the others rotate up so all are new to their positions.  If possible do not plan a hospital visit in February.  

I in the US it's July

[Carm_88]

10 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

A bit smaller. It's possible she's been trying to eat healthier this time around. Or the fact that she has a baby who is mobile could be playing a role - she could be moving around more trying to keep him out of trouble. 

It could be the way she's standing as well. She seemed to be pushing out the first pregnancy. 

[justmy2cents]

I think those pictures are at slightly different angles and her shirt is a little longer in the 2nd picture which might make her stomach look higher.  And of course women can carry differently from pregnancy to pregnancy.

[VixenToast]

It always annoys me when people try to guess boy or girl based on belly size and shape. It's erroneous and speculative and not scientifically verified. I get similarity irritated when someone insists I will get a cold from sitting outside in the cold too much (There is scandanavian blood in me, perhaps that is why I don't mind just sitting outside in the cold, like I'm doing right now haha).

I can get a little Sheldon Cooper meets Hermione Granger when it comes to facts I know 100%. Hehehe.

The way I see it, Jessa looks great and yes she is carrying smalle in this pregnancy. However every pregnancy is different.

[marmalade]

Never mind. 25 weeks works out if Jill returned the first week of August and the clipshow taped 8 weeks ago (end of August). I thought the dates were a little later, but I now recall Jill was back in this timeframe. 

[Bad Wolf]

Back in the dark ages, you hung your wedding band on a string and held it over your belly. Depending on which way it swung told you whether it was a boy or girl. That was Wolf 1. With Wolf 2 I had an ultrasound and learned it was a girl. I  couldn't even tell it was a baby. Wolf 2 turned out to be a boy, current!y on a submarine. I did have an OBGYN for both, but technology was limited.