The Seewalds, Part 10: Having my baby

[VelociRapture]

19 minutes ago, BadMurphy said:

We only saw the last of Michelle's many pregnancies when her body was so done she HAD to go the hospital route. We didn't see when she had Jill through Joy at home.

That doesn't seem accurate. 

http://www.duggarfamilyblog.com/2010/03/home-births.html?m=1

An old post, but it says the first five kids were born in a hospital, Jinger and Joseph were born at home, and the rest seem to have been hospital births.

[Carm_88]

Michelle definitely did not give birth at home as much as she did in a hospital. She should be encouraging her daughters and daughter in law to go there. Home birth is fine but you should be willing to go to a hospital. And there are birth centres if the whole hospital atmosphere is not for you!

[missegeno]

My understanding is that Michelle had the typically advised hospital births initially but then was so impressed with her recovery from natural births and being in the comfort of home for her home births that she decided it was the way to go. But by then she was getting to a more high risk age and had to return to hospitals despite her preference for natural home births. Of course her daughters want to go the easy recovery route as long as possible. As much as i disagree with most of their birth decisions (and there may be other, more sinister motives to the home births), I would probably take my mom's advice if she told me "my best recovery was when..." and if i had no indication of hightened risk. That being said, i would make sure i had a solid backup plan in case, especially for a first pregnancy. The Duggars fail on the "what if..." but i can't judge them for aiming for what they're told was their mother's best recovery.

[VelociRapture]

4 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

Michelle definitely did not give birth at home as much as she did in a hospital. She should be encouraging her daughters and daughter in law to go there. Home birth is fine but you should be willing to go to a hospital. And there are birth centres if the whole hospital atmosphere is not for you!

For all we know, she could have been telling them that hospital births are perfectly fine and they (and or their husbands) could have decided otherwise for various reasons. We definitely don't see everything they say or do on the show. And Michelle is on record as stating she prefers hospital births for safety, though she personally chose to avoid using medication during labor:

Small shot, but it's an excerpt from their book, "The Duggars: 20 and Counting!" It confirms that she only had two home births, and that most of the kids were delivered vaginally - she only needed two C-sections for Jana, JD, and Jackson.

[HarryPotterFan]

Can't Jill and Jessa take a page from their mother's book and see a doctor throughout their pregnancy? I wouldn't trust a fundie trained midwife to accurately assess risk/encourage a hospital birth after what happened last time.

[patsymae]

On October 19, 2016 at 4:37 PM, Mozzie said:

That reminds me of the George Carlin joke in 'Back in Town' 'why don't some of these White Christian women get black poor babies transplanted in to their uteruses [sic] [my computer spell check is saying to write 'uteri']. That sounds like something Jesus might do!

 

 

That's actually happened. White fundie couple "adopted" and "saved" some poor black embryos. IIRC they were triplets.

[Mozzie]

8 minutes ago, patsymae said:

That's actually happened. White fundie couple "adopted" and "saved" some poor black embryos. IIRC they were triplets.

Is that the snowflake adoption thing?

[patsymae]

5 minutes ago, Mozzie said:

Is that the snowflake adoption thing?

I don't know what that means

[CharlieInCharge]

What is Snowflake adoption?

Snowflake children is a term used by organizations that promote the adoption of embryos left over from in vitro fertilisation to describe children that result, where the children's parents were not the original cell donors.

[SassyPants]

7 hours ago, BadMurphy said:

We only saw the last of Michelle's many pregnancies when her body was so done she HAD to go the hospital route. We didn't see when she had Jill through Joy at home.

I thought it was only Jinger and Joe that she had at home. IIRC, Michelle had an outstanding hospital bill from Jessa's birth that she was sued for non payment-

[patsymae]

8 hours ago, CharlieInCharge said:

What is Snowflake adoption?

Snowflake children is a term used by organizations that promote the adoption of embryos left over from in vitro fertilisation to describe children that result, where the children's parents were not the original cell donors.

Yes them that was a snowflake adoption

[mstee]

Re: snowflake adoption. How do the adopters obtain the unused embryos? Do the donors that were used to create that embryo have to sign off on someone else being able to use it? 

[CorruptionInc.]

12 years + of her life being pregnant?? Yikes.

[Carm_88]

4 minutes ago, CorruptionInc. said:

12 years + of her life being pregnant?? Yikes.

That does not sound like a good time to me. 

[justmy2cents]

2 hours ago, mstee said:

Re: snowflake adoption. How do the adopters obtain the unused embryos? Do the donors that were used to create that embryo have to sign off on someone else being able to use it? 

I believe that embryos have to be 'adopted' from the bio parent/s. I know someone who did that and keeps in touch so her child will know his or her siblings.

[Mercer]

3 hours ago, mstee said:

Re: snowflake adoption. How do the adopters obtain the unused embryos? Do the donors that were used to create that embryo have to sign off on someone else being able to use it? 

The embryos come from people who used fertility treatments who ended up with more embryos than they want to use to create their own family. Instead of leaving them in permanent storage or having them destroyed, they voluntarily donate them to other families who "adopt" them... typically with great fanfare about saving their "lives" and very little tough conversation about why these embryos ended up in that position in the first place.

[Chevreuil]

Where i live, whether you go through an ob or midwife, you dont get your first appointment until you are estimated at 13 weeks. At 13 weeks, you dont always hear the heartbeat (i didnt with my last pregnancy). We also are only given one ultrasound (the anatomy scan around 20 weeks) unless there is medical need (bleeding, lack of a heartbeat, multiples). Even the ultrasound to check for down syndrom is not guaranteed unless you are at risk. 

 

[missegeno]

Re: snowflake adoption. How do the adopters obtain the unused embryos? Do the donors that were used to create that embryo have to sign off on someone else being able to use it? 

Yes leftover embryos are common and can be destroyed, donated to research, or made available for other couples. It's a big decision and involves signatures regardless of which route is chosen.

[mango_fandango]

14 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

For all we know, she could have been telling them that hospital births are perfectly fine and they (and or their husbands) could have decided otherwise for various reasons. We definitely don't see everything they say or do on the show. And Michelle is on record as stating she prefers hospital births for safety, though she personally chose to avoid using medication during labor:

Small shot, but it's an excerpt from their book, "The Duggars: 20 and Counting!" It confirms that she only had two home births, and that most of the kids were delivered vaginally - she only needed two C-sections for Jana, JD, and Jackson.

Plus C sections for Jordyn and Josie, Jordyn because she was also tranverse and Josie, well, we know why.

I like the idea of a home birth, but I'd be way too worried about potential problems during labour. Anything can happen. I'd prefer to be in a place where I can get immediate help rather than having to be taken to hospital. 

[withaj]

4 hours ago, mango_fandango said:

Plus C sections for Jordyn and Josie, Jordyn because she was also tranverse and Josie, well, we know why.

I like the idea of a home birth, but I'd be way too worried about potential problems during labour. Anything can happen. I'd prefer to be in a place where I can get immediate help rather than having to be taken to hospital. 

Yep. Unless my house practically backed up to a hospital, I wouldn't be comfortable with a home birth. Transfers can take too long. 

Women have been birthing babies with the help of other women for millennia, so midwives don't bother me in theory. But I would only use a midwife who worked in a comprehensive OB practice, and it would have to be someone who was not anti-intervention and that I knew fell on the crunchy end of the natural birth spectrum, not the fundie end.

[VelociRapture]

20 minutes ago, withaj said:

Yep. Unless my house practically backed up to a hospital, I wouldn't be comfortable with a home birth. Transfers can take too long. 

Women have been birthing babies with the help of other women for millennia, so midwives don't bother me in theory. But I would only use a midwife who worked in a comprehensive OB practice, and it would have to be someone who was not anti-intervention and that I knew fell on the crunchy end of the natural birth spectrum, not the fundie end.

That's how I feel too. I'm having my baby in a Hospital with whichever doctor at my practice who happens to be on call at the time. I don't mind that because it's a very good and respected OBGYN practice and all the Doctors are awesome.

I absolutely see why some women or couples prefer home births though. It does sound pretty awesome to be comfortable in my own home and able to see my dog soon after the birth is over. But I know myself well enough to know that I would be an anxious mess thinking of all the things that could go wrong and I have no desire to help with cleanup afterwards.  So the hospital is the only option for my sanity and peace of mind (and for my husband's too.) I like the comfort of being a minute or two away from an OR if anything should happen too.

I feel like women and couples who do decide to go with a homebirth should just proceed with caution and really do their research ahead of time (same with hospital births to be fair). Make sure the Midwife is licensed and has a good track record. Make sure they aren't anti-intervention if it's needed and they have adequate experience with the type of birth you want (for example, water birth.) Be sure to have a backup plan if something goes wrong. Be sure you live close enough to a hospital should you need to be transferred as well - minutes can make a big difference in an emergency. And most importantly - and this goes for all pregnant women - be sure you remember that your birth plan isn't set in stone and you need to be flexible. 

[Chevreuil]

I gave birth in both a hospital and birth centre and for me, the birth centre was better. With my first (in a hospital) i had to hold her in (as in attempt to refrain from pushing) for 20+ minutes while they tried to find a doctor avaliable and i had to listen to the moniter go off while her heart beat went down during every contraction (not to mention thr clusterfuck that was breastfeeding with the horrible asshole nurses). BUT midwives here go to actual university (plus many years of on the job training, there was a student midwife when i gave birth to my son who was still being trained when i found out i was preggo again 4 years later) , are part of the medical community here and they are regulated, i was able to get my gbs+ antibiotics and was not allowed to use them when i was preggo with twins. Even when i was giving birth to my twins (in a different hospital than my first) i was told to hold them in even though i warned the doctor once the pushing starts, it goes fast (always less than 10 minutes) and had to be wheeled down to the operating room (most hospitals have you give birth to twins there, just incase) with a baby coming out. It still wasnt a bad experience though, just that there were instances where things could have gone wrong, even in a hospital. I think it doesnt help that where i live, there are limited options so i either get the shitastic local hospital or the teaching hospital where they tend to be less experienced and dont listen when i tell them my bladder is full so i TMI ended up peeing in the doctor's face.  

[Buzzard]

7 hours ago, Chevreuil said:

Where i live, whether you go through an ob or midwife, you dont get your first appointment until you are estimated at 13 weeks. At 13 weeks, you dont always hear the heartbeat (i didnt with my last pregnancy). We also are only given one ultrasound (the anatomy scan around 20 weeks) unless there is medical need (bleeding, lack of a heartbeat, multiples). Even the ultrasound to check for down syndrom is not guaranteed unless you are at risk. 

 

My assumption for why she told Jana first was that she wanted to hear the heartbeat.  Jana has the same "training" as Saint Jill, so she should be able to find it.  Its possible that she simply wasnt able to with the doppler that she had and thats why Jessa hadnt heard it yet, assuming she's not full of shit (which she probably is).

20 hours ago, missegeno said:

My understanding is that Michelle had the typically advised hospital births initially but then was so impressed with her recovery from natural births and being in the comfort of home for her home births that she decided it was the way to go. But by then she was getting to a more high risk age and had to return to hospitals despite her preference for natural home births. Of course her daughters want to go the easy recovery route as long as possible. As much as i disagree with most of their birth decisions (and there may be other, more sinister motives to the home births), I would probably take my mom's advice if she told me "my best recovery was when..." and if i had no indication of hightened risk. That being said, i would make sure i had a solid backup plan in case, especially for a first pregnancy. The Duggars fail on the "what if..." but i can't judge them for aiming for what they're told was their mother's best recovery.

I got the impression that she had health insurance while Boob was in the state house and in their early years.  Not so much for the J'slaves these days.

[BackseatMom]

Just for the record, every state has different midwife laws. My midwives were all certified midwifes and licensed nurses (so, that's some school work right there). They finished up the regular nursing program, then did special midwife classes and a year of apprenticeship before they could assist alone. I'm my state, they had to have a supervising doctor, and hospital priviledges. Births centers are avalible, but homebirths were illegal for midwives. In some other places, anyone can call themselves a midwife.

I am strongly in favor of having certified nurse midwives available - they reduce stress, costs, and complications for many low risk women.

I am vehemently apposed to untrained idiots (like the Duggar's "midwife") calling themselves midwives. It gives the whole profession a bad rep, and it puts mothers and babies in needless risk.

[eandre31]

I would love to give birth at home except for the fact I don't know if I'd ever willingly give up my choice for an epidural! When i birthed my son years ago in the hospital, i went without an epidural until they told me i had to do it now or never. After my epidural, i was happy, smiling, and excited. It was a much more enjoyable experience. So although i think i would like to try naturally one day, i also think im kidding myself and never actually would lol.

I've decided that with my next one, I will have a hospital birth assisted by a licensed midwife. I had a poor experience with my OB last time with her weird rules (like no touching or taking pictures of the baby until he's weighed, my mom being yelled at for putting a hand on my leg while I was pushing, not being able to try different posistions) and I think a midwife would be a good middle ground for me.

Not to mention the C section rates in the US are extremely high and sometimes unnecessary. I want a doctor or midwife that won't jump to a section right away.