Jill, Derick and Israel- Part 19

[elliha]

On 2016-09-26 at 3:09 PM, pancakes said:

I have to wonder if all the out of hospital births aren't necessarily because that's what they want or what they think is best but because it's cheaper. Even without health insurance of any kind you can get, at least down here in the south where many of these fundies live, a GOOD homebirth midwife for around $5000. That's someone certified who brings an iv and newborn resuscitation equipment and who provides full prenatal care with ultrasounds and lab work. I would imagine a not so great midwife with fewer credentials and less equipment might charge only half that or less particularly if she sees someone who is likely a repeat customer or who has lots of friends and family who may go to her too. It's the 'buy used and save the difference' of birth.

Yes, and this is why I am not that negative of Jill practising. If she was keeping someone from going to the hospital by being there it would be terrible but I think that in most cases these midwives are still better than a free birth which might have been a more likely alternative than "if we cannot get the cheap midwife we surely must find a more expensive qualified one or go to the hospital". I do think Jill knows at least something about birth and can help somewhat. 

[KnittingOwl]

45 minutes ago, elliha said:

Yes, and this is why I am not that negative of Jill practising. If she was keeping someone from going to the hospital by being there it would be terrible but I think that in most cases these midwives are still better than a free birth which might have been a more likely alternative than "if we cannot get the cheap midwife we surely must find a more expensive qualified one or go to the hospital". I do think Jill knows at least something about birth and can help somewhat. 

I'm not convinced. I think a laboring mother might be more convinced to go to a hospital if on their own than with someone who is "certified."  The difference between "something doesn't feel right, maybe I should go to a hospital" and "something doesn't feel right, but Jill says it's ok so I'll stay here."

Then again, all of the documentaries I've seen on free birth make me believe that those mothers are pretty convinced to stay home no matter what. 

[elliha]

11 minutes ago, KnittingOwl said:

I'm not convinced. I think a laboring mother might be more convinced to go to a hospital if on their own than with someone who is "certified."  The difference between "something doesn't feel right, maybe I should go to a hospital" and "something doesn't feel right, but Jill says it's ok so I'll stay here."

Then again, all of the documentaries I've seen on free birth make me believe that those mothers are pretty convinced to stay home no matter what. 

There is the risk you mention of course, but I also think there is a chance that she could spot things a mother doesn't spot. I do think that 99,99% of mothers who are told by their midwife to go to the hospital go there. I assume that not everyone will always err on the side of caution when making a decision on their own. Some will, but not everyone.

As to free birthers being very confident about staying at home, yes, if that is their first choice I think that is very true. I know someone who has free birted three kids because of hospital fear and I feel personally that she took too many risks with one of her births even though it did end well for her, I would not have stayed home with that scenario and I am sure no midwife (Jill included) would have advised her to stay at home.

[alba]

Yes, and this is why I am not that negative of Jill practising. If she was keeping someone from going to the hospital by being there it would be terrible but I think that in most cases these midwives are still better than a free birth which might have been a more likely alternative than "if we cannot get the cheap midwife we surely must find a more expensive qualified one or go to the hospital". I do think Jill knows at least something about birth and can help somewhat. 

On the other hand, Jill thinks there's such a thing as "mild" fetal distress. I'm not a mom nor am I a Degreed Medical Professional ™, but from the posts I read here at the time, she should have gone to the hospital far earlier than she did with Izzy's birth.

If Jill is attending at births, I'd be concerned she'd discourage mums from going to the hospital when they spot meconium staining or other dangers, because it's "mild" fetal distress.

[nickelodeon]

I recall that when Jill was helping out in the toilet birth episode of 19KAC, she had a good bedside manner and was way more helpful to Anna than the weirdo officially attending.

However, her parents have hampered her ability to train and advance in her field, so that the only colleagues she can really associate with are super sketchy, problematic people like Venessa or that Theresa lady: I can only see her squandering whatever talent she had in this environment.

[Londish]

If Jill were to open her own midwife practice (hypothetically!) do you think she would get malpractice insurance? Would insurance companies been cover her, considering how uneducated she is and the fact that her teacher had her license revoked? To what extent would malpractice insurance protect her if something were to go wrong if she had a client give birth details it ended badly?

Obviously I don't know much about how this kind of thing works.

[pancakes]

This might vary by state but as far as I know there are three types or levels of midwives. 

 

Lay midwife - what you might think of as a traditional midwife from 150+ years ago, a woman who apprenticed under another woman and has attended hundreds to thousands of births and just plain knows what's they're doing despite little or even no formal education, common in Amish and other semi separate religious communities as well as those like polygamous sects that have their own towns, illegal in many states while other states allow them and still others (like Arkansas) allow but require some education and a license

certified practical midwife - sort of the equivalent of a specialized nurse, allowed to attended homebirth independently in some states but in many states cannot do anything unless under the umbrella of a doctor, common in hospitals to keep costs down but only when more qualified individuals are close at hand

certified nurse midwife - someone with a masters level of education who often practices independently although some states require physician oversight, similar to a nurse practitioner, may attend home births, hospital births, or some combination of the two depending on risk factors for the mom and baby, in many states a cnm can write prescriptions and order ultrasounds and lab work, many can and do practice on their own and carry malpractice insurance

[BoPeep]

If I could get an epidural at home, I'd birth at home every time.  We have insurance.  I don't dislike hospital care.  I absolutely adore my OB!  But I'm a homebody.  I love MY space.  And I HATE people waking me every 2 hrs to tell me I need to feed my baby.  I'm not stupid.  I KNOW to feed my babies!  

My ds's birth, I had a total of 3 hrs of sleep in the 2 nights I was there....and that includes the hr and a half I slept in the recovery room w him on my chest, waiting for the epidural to wear off so I could get my own room.   I told my ob and the kids' ped that the next birth, I NEEDED OUT of that hospital asap...and that meant no longer than 12 hrs after birth.  

I just would prefer my home, my routine, my family around, my bed, and time alone.  It's not a far stretch to think others may prefer home births because they enjoy their homes and family and recovering in comfort and familiarity.  Now, is this why the Duggar women prefer this?  Idk.  But the more one is around homebirthing women, the more it seems natural and lovely...vs a hospital stay.  It's also a stance many non-fundies take....esp the more liberal/earth mother Mothering Magazine/La Leche League crew.  

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

11 hours ago, BoPeep said:

If I could get an epidural at home, I'd birth at home every time.  We have insurance.  I don't dislike hospital care.  I absolutely adore my OB!  But I'm a homebody.  I love MY space.  And I HATE people waking me every 2 hrs to tell me I need to feed my baby.  I'm not stupid.  I KNOW to feed my babies!  

My ds's birth, I had a total of 3 hrs of sleep in the 2 nights I was there....and that includes the hr and a half I slept in the recovery room w him on my chest, waiting for the epidural to wear off so I could get my own room.   I told my ob and the kids' ped that the next birth, I NEEDED OUT of that hospital asap...and that meant no longer than 12 hrs after birth.  

I just would prefer my home, my routine, my family around, my bed, and time alone.  It's not a far stretch to think others may prefer home births because they enjoy their homes and family and recovering in comfort and familiarity.  Now, is this why the Duggar women prefer this?  Idk.  But the more one is around homebirthing women, the more it seems natural and lovely...vs a hospital stay.  It's also a stance many non-fundies take....esp the more liberal/earth mother Mothering Magazine/La Leche League crew.  

I am SO with you on this! I went home 36 hours after my last C-section; I hadn't slept a wink and I just needed go home with my people. 

[SassyPants]

In terms of Jill and Derick's mission work...I just chatted with my friend who has a daughter who is off to Asia for mission work. She is a college grad, an international university graduate school grad and  has recently left for 2 years of intense language and culture studies to prepare her for mission work. In addition, for the first year, she can have NO visitors. Now, let's compare that to the planning and training that the Dillards have undergone.

[Audrey2]

9 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

In terms of Jill and Derick's mission work...I just chatted with my friend who has a daughter who is off to Asia for mission work. She is a college grad, an international university graduate school grad and  has recently left for 2 years of intense language and culture studies to prepare her for mission work. In addition, for the first year, she can have NO visitors. Now, let's compare that to the planning and training that the Dillards have undergone.

Oh, @SassyPants, I needed a good laugh. I just wish I could find the rolling on the floor laughing emoticon. You just used Dillard's and planning and training in the same sentence. Don't you know how special they are? Their relationship with God is all of the planning and training they'll need. They'll have the Pentecost experience when trying to convert others, where they'll miraculously speak to them in their language, without planning or studying!

[Buzzard]

 

I had to go search for this video.  Between the characterization of the catholic "fail" and the music with the "dirty dirty lyrics" I just think of the Duggars (and flame)

 

[nastyhobbitses]

On 9/28/2016 at 3:40 AM, elliha said:

Yes, and this is why I am not that negative of Jill practising. If she was keeping someone from going to the hospital by being there it would be terrible but I think that in most cases these midwives are still better than a free birth which might have been a more likely alternative than "if we cannot get the cheap midwife we surely must find a more expensive qualified one or go to the hospital". I do think Jill knows at least something about birth and can help somewhat. 

I'd be less down on her midwifery if she'd use/JB would let her use the family's considerable means to get an Associate's in Nursing and eventually work her way up to becoming a CNM, or even just an EMT certification, instead of the glorified Word document she got under the tutelage of a dangerous quack.

[elliha]

5 minutes ago, nastyhobbitses said:

I'd be less down on her midwifery if she'd use/JB would let her use the family's considerable means to get an Associate's in Nursing and eventually work her way up to becoming a CNM, or even just an EMT certification, instead of the glorified Word document she got under the tutelage of a dangerous quack.

Totally in agreement with you.

[Four is Enough]

6 minutes ago, elliha said:

Totally in agreement with you.

Not to be dumb, or to quote Jill, but "YES! TOTALLY!"

[PennySycamore]

@Buzzard,  I knew that the video you posted was done by a Catholic group at the start.  Why?  Because it was about "evangelization" and not "evangelism".  Catholics tend to use the term evangelization and not evangelism.

[Malizabeth]

Hello all!  Coming out of lurkdom!  Just wanted to chime in on homebirth.  I just had my first homebirth earlier this year, for my 4th child.  I will definitely try to do this again if we have any more kids. And I am NOT a fundie, hippie, etc.. I, along with a pp, hated being awoken by strangers all night in a stinky, cold hospital, the food sucked, the bed is uncomfortable, and frankly giving birth is a personal experience.  Strangers barging in and out of your room while in labor is not enjoyable.  And my insurance doesn't cover homebirth, so I actually spent more money to do it at home.  Well spent!  Now... If my baby showed any signs of distress, off to the hospital I would go!!

[jqlgoblue]

I could have sworn that I posted something similar to Malizabeth a little bit ago but I can't find it. Anyway, it wasn't about myself but someone's story I'd read online and being more comfortable at home makes sense. The woman I read about felt like the progress of her first birth was impeded at the hospital b/c of all the chaos. Anyway, I do think people ideally should do what they like as long as they are in a safe environment.

I know for me personally that even though I hate chaos I'd want to be in the hospital. I know I'd freak out at home because in situations remotely like this (past post op, etc.) I have worried at the tiniest little thing, especially if it involves blood.

Regardless, I just hope people have options and get the proper care. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

On 9/20/2016 at 1:37 PM, VelociRapture said:

.... Where's my angry head banging emoji people?! I need it!

Is Jill in NW AR or OK?  I just googled its only about 90 minutes from TTH to Tulsa. So I guess she could easily get there for a day's work. 

[VelociRapture]

7 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Is Jill in NW AR or OK?  I just googled its only about 90 minutes from TTH to Tulsa. So I guess she could easily get there for a day's work. 

Venessa isn't allowed to practically be in Arkansas. I would guess this was a birth somewhere in Oklahoma, since it's one of the state's she is allowed to work in.

[kjmackin]

After living in the it's very easy to commute between Tulsa, Fayetteville, and even Joplin (I think she able to practice there as well). Hell, last Saturday I was all three cities 

[Lurky]

All this talk about home births is making me laugh, remembering a story my paramedic friend told me, about the nice middle class couple who had a successful homebirth, then called an ambulance and asked them to check out mother and baby... and clean up all the mess for them!  Erm, no, to the latter - that's part of home birthing!

[Funwithfundies]

47 minutes ago, Lurky said:

All this talk about home births is making me laugh, remembering a story my paramedic friend told me, about the nice middle class couple who had a successful homebirth, then called an ambulance and asked them to check out mother and baby... and clean up all the mess for them!  Erm, no, to the latter - that's part of home birthing!

That's hysterical - wouldn't you love to peek in on those parents now to see how they're handling parenthood?  

[ksgranola1]

Vanessa delivered many a baby before she got into trouble w/one bad delivery. These parents make out a birth plan and in it is often included, "Even if I beg, no epidural/trip to hospital." It might have been in the birth plan for the woman that said she begged Jill to call an ambulance. also, if they get to 9 cm; the usual time they start to freak out, it can lead to a baby born in an ambulance or along the side of the road.

Arkansas is one of the poorest states in the country. I can see many a woman opting for a lay midwife or if she wants more, a "Jill" midwife.

[Coconut Flan]

It wasn't the birthing plan gone wrong with that delivery.  It was a sick baby and Venessa thinking she knew more than established medicine on what a GBS newborn needed.  She almost killed the kid out of arrogance or ignorance.