The Hodnett Family Converting Scotland

[alba]

There is a dictionary's worth of slang that is nearly specific to Glasgow. As someone above mentioned try looking up some Maw Broon comics online as a Glaswegian 101.

I thought the Broons were Dundonian, considering DC Thomson's is based there and they use east coast words like "bairn".

[caszandra]

Naw, the Broons were from the fictional town Auchenshoogle. They used Modern Scots as the language in the comic strips. 

[BiblebeltCath]

Kind of a funny tangentially related story: I know some protestant missionaries who were sent to Ireland to convert the high church heathens. I guess they liked what they saw though, because they became Eastern Orthodox when they got back to the US!

[Palimpsest]

8 hours ago, JMarie said:

Scotland?  Why Scotland?  Did the dad spin a globe, close his eyes, stop the globe with an index finger, and peek underneath?  Is that how they picked Scotland?  Or were they trying to be different from all the other missionaries, the ones who go to Central America or Africa?

And they've been planning this trip since 2011  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aX4XJtGthc

 

Not all fake missionaries raise funds as fast as Shrader.  Five years on Deputation probably isn't exceptional.  

Apparently even home-grown Scottish Fundies can get offended by American missionaries.  This person even wants to work with American missionaries but was offended by the mindset of some Southern Baptist Convention types.  Just wait until he meets Hodnett.  He's seen nothing yet!

http://theaquilareport.com/how-not-to-be-an-american-missionary-in-scotland/

 

[seraaa]

2 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Not all fake missionaries raise funds as fast as Shrader.  Five years on Deputation probably isn't exceptional.  

Apparently even home-grown Scottish Fundies can get offended by American missionaries.  This person even wants to work with American missionaries but was offended by the mindset of some Southern Baptist Convention types.  Just wait until he meets Hodnett.  He's seen nothing yet!

http://theaquilareport.com/how-not-to-be-an-american-missionary-in-scotland/

 

God love the Wee Frees (I assume - he said Free Church and not Free Presbyterian)

He's not wrong about intercultural relations in that article, though. In some ways he'd fit right in here

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Given the manpower and money it only takes a modest level of competency to gather 50 plus people. You can then send reports of how you have established a church (or to use the jargon – ‘how God is working through you’) and your supporters back home will be happy.

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I question how theologically valid it is to send mission teams over to ‘prayer walk’ the Highlands. Why not just come on a walking holiday and don’t use the ‘mission tag’?

Haa. Yer classic austere Scottish Presbyterian Calvinist is having none of this nonsense.

Snarky.

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Of course there is value in looking at different methods and strategies. Of course there are new ways of doing things. And of course some of these programs are excellent. But we really do need to beware of the program mentality. It is often easier to sell a method than it is to live Christ. It is also sometimes far more lucrative – especially for the author.

Lmaoo I really mean this: God bless the Wee Frees. Or possibly the Wee Wee Frees, I'm not familiar enough with the differences to tell, but the beef between the subsequent split branches in Scottish Protestantism are like the Judean People's Front sketch from Monty Python.

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I find it ironic that you will get mission teams ‘bringing the gospel to Scotland’ who think that they have done so by going and singing in St Giles in Edinburgh. St Giles is a bastion of theological liberalism. It is the church where Jenny Geddes flung her stool at the preacher when he tried to use Laud’s liturgy. Yet now her Presbyterian descendants celebrate their Scottishness and their Knoxian heritage by supporting a church which Knox would not be seen dead in!

 

[kunoichi66]

5 hours ago, Peas n carrots said:

 

I'm so sorry had no idea *embarrassed* I am American, but married to a Scot and my MIL and her family are all Glaswegian - I dearly love the city and over the past 10 years have been lucky enough to spend a good deal of time there. The people are some of the greatest I've ever met, and take shit from no one. That is perhaps why I'm enjoying the thought of these moronic proselytizers trying to preach to the unsaved of Scotland - they are going to get their asses handed to them in a way they so richly deserve.

It's all right - how were you supposed to know ??

I am glad you like spending so much time here - I love my country, and its people.

and yes, I am really looking forward to seeing this family get it. 

 

I know I'm making light of them coming over, but I am angry, so I am looking forward to the moment when they run out with their tails between their legs!

 

ETA:  I'm a homeskool hero! OMG!!"!!!

[alba]

6 hours ago, caszandra said:

Naw, the Broons were from the fictional town Auchenshoogle. They used Modern Scots as the language in the comic strips. 

Ahhh, right. It's been ages since I read the comics, but I remembered they lived in Glebe Street and there is (was?) a Glebe Street in Dundee.

[Palimpsest]

2 hours ago, seraaa said:

God love the Wee Frees (I assume - he said Free Church and not Free Presbyterian)

He's not wrong about intercultural relations in that article, though. In some ways he'd fit right in here

@seraaa you picked out some of my favorite bits of that article. He would definitely fit in on FJ.  I whine about vacations masquerading as missions all the time,

 I'll just add a few more of David Robertson's pithy comments for those who don't have time to read the whole article.

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However I am also aware that we have a reputation of sending home missionaries from Europe in general and Scotland in particular, in ‘body bags’.

Yikes!  Hodnett, you have been warned.

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short term mission teams – which are often more for the benefit of the people who come and the sending church than they are for the recipients. [...] But mission should not be sold like that. Certainly let people come on ‘vision’ trips to see what the need is and what might be done – but again please do not call that mission.

I'm going to start calling all short term Fundie missions "defective visionary" trips.

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It is really important that people get facts right….’many’ of Scotland’s churches are not occupied by muslims, there ARE reformed churches and witness within the Baptist Union, the Presbyterians churches are not mainly through the Free Church, and not all the State churches are ‘very liberal’. ( on a slightly more amusing note I am intrigued that the Baptist Union is completely Armenian….personally I thought it was full of Turks!).

  I too love it when people confuse Arminian with Armenian.

[seraaa]

"Defective visionary trips"  

[Glasgowghirl]

They basically picked the worst stories they could find about Scotland made a YouTube clip and are asking for money to 'save' the place. 

[BobTheWalrus]

On 28/08/2016 at 2:31 PM, acheronbeach said:

BAHAHAHA out of a country of 5.3 million?  Do they imagine the Scots don't have access to TV, movies, radio, books, or even churches? 

I'm just imagining all the haggis-eating savages, puzzled looks upon their faces as they head to the chippy or the pub, "Who's this Jesus fella?  Never heard of him."

I'm not sure about the numbers, but it is surprising how many people in the UK genuinely don't know the story of Jesus.  The older generation probably do, but there are a lot who have heard the name but aren't sure who He is or what He did.  Even the Christmas and Easter stories aren't super well known any more.

[Gobsmacked]

4 minutes ago, BobTheWalrus said:

I'm not sure about the numbers, but it is surprising how many people in the UK genuinely don't know the story of Jesus.  The older generation probably do, but there are a lot who have heard the name but aren't sure who He is or what He did.  Even the Christmas and Easter stories aren't super well known any more.

? I'm not convinced about that. When my kids were small and at nursery they learned about different religions from a former school teacher who was invited in to talk to them.

At their primary school this carried on. The school was interdenominational but not religious ( if that makes sense) the kids learned about world religions but also about Christianity from two visiting clergymen.

A carol service was always held at Christmas.  All the kids learned about Easter but also about festivals important to other religions.

They attended school in Scotland. Both in the Highlands and the central belt. 

[Lurky]

1 hour ago, BobTheWalrus said:

I'm not sure about the numbers, but it is surprising how many people in the UK genuinely don't know the story of Jesus.  The older generation probably do, but there are a lot who have heard the name but aren't sure who He is or what He did.  Even the Christmas and Easter stories aren't super well known any more.

Can I ask your sources for this please?

ETA:  I'm in the UK, grew up in London in an atheist family, have always lived in cities,  have lots of non-Christian friends, and this is absolutely not my impression in any way.

[Gemini]

U.K. Citizen here.

I don't know anyone who hasn't heard of Jesus. Religious studies, which usually covers a wide range of religions, is compulsory in schools. 

[formergothardite]

I can't answer for Bob, but all the fundies I know who like to go on about how places like the U.K or even Atlanta, GA don't know about Jesus, what they mean is that the people can't immediately recite the fundie Bible speak and/or view the story of Jesus as a myth. 

[Grimalkin]

On August 29, 2016 at 11:34 PM, FundieFarmer said:

I must confess to being related to some missionaries, one of whom was once part of a snowboarding outreach program.

Sigh. The struggle to not snark at Thanksgiving is real.

     I clearly need to rethink my agnosticism. I want a cat cafe outreach. I'm torn between a centrally located European country and a beachy tropical location.

[alba]

Can I ask your sources for this please?

ETA:  I'm in the UK, grew up in London in an atheist family, have always lived in cities,  have lots of non-Christian friends, and this is absolutely not my impression in any way.

Agreed. I've lived in Scotland my entire adult life and I would consider this country "culturally Christian", in that mosy people have a rudimentary knowledge of Christianity and celebrate Christmas and Easter. Even those who don't observe Christian holidays because they're members of other faiths still know the basics of Jesus.

[formergothardite]

Hopefully @BobTheWalrus come back and clear things up, but I'm pretty sure we've had this discussion before and the majority of members living in the U.K are all confused by the people who think they don't know who Jesus is and don't know the Easter/Christmas story. 

[BobTheWalrus]

16 hours ago, Gobsmacked said:

? I'm not convinced about that. When my kids were small and at nursery they learned about different religions from a former school teacher who was invited in to talk to them.

At their primary school this carried on. The school was interdenominational but not religious ( if that makes sense) the kids learned about world religions but also about Christianity from two visiting clergymen.

A carol service was always held at Christmas.  All the kids learned about Easter but also about festivals important to other religions.

They attended school in Scotland. Both in the Highlands and the central belt. 

I think a lot of it depends on where you are.  I'm speaking from personal experience so it may be completely different in other parts of the country (I'm in the south of England). Down here the schools teach about world religions, but it's not always particularly accurate.  The church schools do carol services; some others do nativity plays but they're often adapted with extra characters to be more inclusive. My kids' school doesn't do anything like that. Other schools in the area are variable - some are happy for ministers to visit, others not. I'm thinking of surveys we did at university as well - lots people had heard of Jesus and knew he was connected with christmas, but didn't know much more than that.  Similarly, many adults I've talked with have heard the name but are hazy on the details of what christians believe.

Having said that, I don't think the situation is quite what that video portrays, and I don't think they will be particularly successful with that doom and gloom approach, especially in Glasgow! They don't seem to know what they're getting into, and it won't help if they're unwilling to work with other churches locally.  Plus they seem very keen on the anti-abortion gospel.

[Lurky]

@BobTheWalrus I am also in the South of England, and your experience is radically different to mine.  I can't think of anyone I've ever met who doesn't know that Christians believe Jesus is the son of God, that he was a man of peace, and that you have to believe in Jesus to go to heaven.

I know tons and tons of people who think Jesus was a historical figure, who was a freedom fighter against the Romans, but don't believe he was mystical - pretty much everyone I know can sing Christmas carols, regardless of their religions or lack of it, so know the basic Christmas story - no room at the Inn, Virgin birth in a stable, son of God, presents from the 3 Kings.   There are Christmas and Easter services broadcast on at least 2 mainstream TV channels, so it's hardly being suppressed here.

And of course, Jewish and Muslim people are taught about Jesus, they're just taught different things about him than Christians are, so everyone I know who's Muslim, eg, knows about the version of Jesus from the Quran, rather than the Bible, and how that's different.

Now, if what you're saying is that most people couldn't tell you the difference between what Methodist, Evangelical or Anglican Christians believe about Jesus, or what age the Bible says  old Jesus was when he died, or specifics about what different books of the Bible say about his life, I'll agree wholeheartedly - but with respect, all that is irrelevant if someone like me doesn't believe in God, and I absolutely disagree that "most people don't know who Jesus is". 

I also disagree that Religious Education lessons are inaccurate, as in state schools, they are all taught from the National Curriculum.  I can't talk about Private schools, and the new Free Schools and Religious Schools, but most kids are being taught a standard curriculum. 

I think the fact you're equating "knowing who Jesus is" with "schools allowing Ministers to visit" and how nativity plays are performed suggests you might have a different definition than most of us, so could you share your definition, so the Brits in the thread can understand where you're coming from?

[BobTheWalrus]

8 minutes ago, Lurky said:

@BobTheWalrus I am also in the South of England, and your experience is radically different to mine.  I can't think of anyone I've ever met who doesn't know that Christians believe Jesus is the son of God, that he was a man of peace, and that you have to believe in Jesus to go to heaven.

I know tons and tons of people who think Jesus was a historical figure, who was a freedom fighter against the Romans, but don't believe he was mystical - pretty much everyone I know can sing Christmas carols, regardless of their religions or lack of it, so know the basic Christmas story - no room at the Inn, Virgin birth in a stable, son of God, presents from the 3 Kings.   There are Christmas and Easter services broadcast on at least 2 mainstream TV channels, so it's hardly being suppressed here.

And of course, Jewish and Muslim people are taught about Jesus, they're just taught different things about him than Christians are, so everyone I know who's Muslim, eg, knows about the version of Jesus from the Quran, rather than the Bible, and how that's different.

Now, if what you're saying is that most people couldn't tell you the difference between what Methodist, Evangelical or Anglican Christians believe about Jesus, or what age the Bible says  old Jesus was when he died, or specifics about what different books of the Bible say about his life, I'll agree wholeheartedly - but with respect, all that is irrelevant if someone like me doesn't believe in God, and I absolutely disagree that "most people don't know who Jesus is". 

I also disagree that Religious Education lessons are inaccurate, as in state schools, they are all taught from the National Curriculum.  I can't talk about Private schools, and the new Free Schools and Religious Schools, but most kids are being taught a standard curriculum. 

I think the fact you're equating "knowing who Jesus is" with "schools allowing Ministers to visit" and how nativity plays are performed suggests you might have a different definition than most of us, so could you share your definition, so the Brits in the thread can understand where you're coming from?

Sounds like we've had pretty different experiences!  I certainly don't think Christianity is being suppressed in any meaningful way.  I've shared what my personal experiences have been as I've talked with people I know. 

RE lessons can be a bit hit and miss, as they are left up to local authorities rather than being prescribed by the national curriculum as, say, history is. Certainly in my kids' school there were numerous inaccuracies in what was taught - again, this is just my experience.  If you aren't a Christian, how do you know whether or not the lessons on christian belief are accurate?  Interesting, though, how even in one region the picture can be so different!

[Lurky]

43 minutes ago, BobTheWalrus said:

RE lessons can be a bit hit and miss, as they are left up to local authorities rather than being prescribed by the national curriculum as, say, history is. Certainly in my kids' school there were numerous inaccuracies in what was taught - again, this is just my experience.  If you aren't a Christian, how do you know whether or not the lessons on christian belief are accurate?  Interesting, though, how even in one region the picture can be so different!

But this is in the eye of the beholder, right?  So an American fundy could say that what a liberal Church of England school teaches in inaccurate, and vice versa - and I might say "there's a bit of historical evidence that a man called Jesus lived, and was crucified by the Romans, but none for any of the religious aspects of his life" and a Christian say I'm wrong. 

I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm genuinely interested, but what do you mean by inaccuracies?  Are we talking about the basics (born in a stable, died on a cross, Christians believe he was the son of God), or in theology-specific details, or somewhere in between?  

ETA or , I guess, "if you really knew who Jesus is, you'd become a Christian", as someone upthread mentioned.

[formergothardite]

What is considered inaccurate can vary a lot. Some groups would consider having three wise men in a nativity play as presenting an inaccurate version of the Christmas story. Some would consider a wooden stable as inaccurate. And some folks think that if you are telling the story of Jesus in December you are TOTALLY getting the story all wrong.  What is accurate and what is inaccurate really is in the eye of the beholder. 

[BobTheWalrus]

1 hour ago, Lurky said:

But this is in the eye of the beholder, right?  So an American fundy could say that what a liberal Church of England school teaches in inaccurate, and vice versa - and I might say "there's a bit of historical evidence that a man called Jesus lived, and was crucified by the Romans, but none for any of the religious aspects of his life" and a Christian say I'm wrong. 

I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm genuinely interested, but what do you mean by inaccuracies?  Are we talking about the basics (born in a stable, died on a cross, Christians believe he was the son of God), or in theology-specific details, or somewhere in between?  

ETA or , I guess, "if you really knew who Jesus is, you'd become a Christian", as someone upthread mentioned.

Ah okay, I get what you're saying. I mean actual inaccuracies in the basics, which is why it surprised me so much.  Because the level of knowledge I assumed was much more like what you described earlier. I fully appreciate that there will be differences in what denominations teach, so what a child at Catholic school learns is probably different in many respects from what my kids learn in Pentecostal Sunday club! And I'm fine with that; I have friends from many different church backgrounds and we enjoy our discussions lol.

I understand what you mean as well about "If you really knew Jesus".... I mean, that's kind of snarkily how I feel, but also I know that it's not quite that simple. People who actually met Jesus in the flesh didn't always become his followers, so why would things be any different now? It doesn't mean I'm any better than someone who believes differently than I do, it just means we've had different experiences, and it's not my place to judge someone's heart.

[Glasgowghirl]

RE is taught in all Scottish schools and all kids will know about Jesus. Knowing about religion is not the problem here in Glasgow. Billy Connolly when referring to the Glasgow Airport bombing attempt said,  "trying to bring religious warfare to Glasgow..you don't even have a football team"