Do Fundies all practice what they preach?

[polecat]

Quote

Do Fundies all practice what they preach?

Maybe -- in public. 

But in private? No. Not even a little bit, in my experience and in the experience of so many other people raised fundy who grew up and got out. 

 

[THERetroGamerNY]

My mother had a terrifying dual personality in regards to the "cheerful" act she put on in public and church... And the abusive one in the house.

I've heard similar stories from other survivors quite often.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, THERetroGamerNY said:

My mother had a terrifying dual personality in regards to the "cheerful" act she put on in public and church... And the abusive one in the house.

I've heard similar stories from other survivors quite often.

I'm grateful I don't have personal experience with that, but in books and films those were the people who always scared me the most.  I'll take someone telegraphs their rage any day over the hidden cruelty.

Not that open rage is okay, either...just saying the stealth kind scares me much more.

I'm really sorry that happened to you.  Every kid deserves safety and protection.  

[December]

1 hour ago, THERetroGamerNY said:

My mother had a terrifying dual personality in regards to the "cheerful" act she put on in public and church... And the abusive one in the house.

I've heard similar stories from other survivors quite often.

That's awful you had to go  through that. I've heard similar stories from a friend who was raised fundie. In their case, it seems like it was related to the family relying only on prayer for situations where medical/psychological help should've been brought in. 

4 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Or, if a woman has been totally unprepared thanks to the belief system that left her completely unprepared, actually take advantage of the safety net the government supplies - as inadequate as it is.

This. As nice it is to believe that a church or extended family would financially care for a SAHM and her child(ren) if the husband passed away or left, it's not a legal obligation. It might well happen in some cases, but it's not guaranteed. 

In addition, even if a woman living in this belief system can allegedly choose not to obey or submit to her husband, when you're never supposed to have a job (as opposed to non-fundie SAHMs and SAHDs where it's a personal choice), defying the breadwinner spouse becomes difficult or even impossible in practice. 

[Grimalkin]

         It seems like the fundies we talk about here care more about a woman's place than things like helping people who are living in poverty. Besides attempting to convert them from other forms of Christianity with cookie bribes, I rarely see them really do anything helpful. Most don't seem like kind people at all. It seems to be about following rules of what not to do. I cannot get my head around silly patriarchy rules being more important than loving your neighbor, the one that is very different than you. 

      I have known some sincere fundyish people whom I like, and I believe they truly are kind and compassionate and have a sincerity. 

[feministxtian]

6 hours ago, true believer said:

I did want to clarify that a woman left with no means of support should be provided for by her family and/or church body, whether that lack of support is from a husband who left her high and dry, died, is seriously ill and unable to provide, or whatever the reason.  She should never be destitute and without help, whether that help comes from financial means, physical help in her home, emotional support, etc.  We are taught that we are the hands and feet of Christ and we are supposed to do all in our power to help others when it is possible.

I just want to say this is the biggest crock of shit around. As someone who was left high and dry by her (now X) husband AND her church, if it hadn't been for ME getting up off my ass and getting a fucking job we'd STILL be living in a minivan. 

The pastor (priest) drove a Mercedes, most of the parish was rather wealthy and their reaction to my situation was to ignore my existence, even after being an active church member for many years. 

Get a fucking education and be prepared to support yourself and your kids. 

[Jucifer]

9 hours ago, fundiefan said:

I would like to know, without bible verses, how a gay couple being (finally) given the equal right to marry has any affect at all on anyone else's marriage or life? I say without bible verses because while some believe the bible is a holy book, not all do, so using a verse as evidence for an argument holds no water with me; you may as well be using verses from the book of the holy fundiefan.

*snip

That's the thing, though.  Their bible says that homosexuality is a sin.  That's God's final word on the subject.  No debate needed.

It doesn't matter if it affects anyone else's marriage or life.

That's why arguing with a fundie is like arguing with a brick wall...

 

[feministxtian]

I have fun with fundies on a certain message board...I asked one of them if they took the Constitution seriously. They answered yes. So I told them that SSM was a 14th amendment issue and quoted it. They turned it into a "Christian marriage" was the only "real" marriage thing. I pretty much gave up after that.

Bottom line:

Straights have already fucked up marriage...

[Jucifer]

Quote

 

I most definitely can think for myself.  As I said, I am a fundie and nobody tells me what to think or makes my decisions for me.  My dh respects me and my opinions.  We are taught from the pulpit that a man who does not listen to his wife and take her thoughts and opinions into consideration (serious consideration) is acting foolishly.  She is given instincts and a different way of thinking by God for his good.  Women and children are highly valued in our belief system and not just  because we are the means to producing many children.  A godly man is one who cherishes, values, protects, loves, and serves his wife and family in our belief system.

Do all fundies believer that?  do all fundies practice that seriously and continuously?  No, most certainly not.  But that is what we are taught in our church and that is the aim of most of the men I know.

If we aren't to derail this very serious topic here, it might be best if these sorts of questions are taken to another thread.  I have no idea if I am even allowed to start a thread yet, so perhaps one of you might do that if ya'll would prefer this discussion be held elsewhere.

 

 

True believer, it sounds like you are living a happy life. That's a good thing.

Do fundies all practice what they preach?

No, sometimes they don't.

 

[Childless]

10 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

It is actually very interesting that so many Fundies appear to think that mothers who stay at home - are Fundie only!

Lots of mothers choose to be SAHM.  It is not Fundie territory at all.  There are also very efficient and caring SAHDads - if that is what works for their family dynamics and earning potential.

I'm not even sure stay at home parents are always the best solution.  My husband has been a stay at home parent while he's been getting his college degree for my children's entire lives.  Part of his degree requirement though is doing an internship.  He did it this summer which required us to put the kids (5 and 2) in daycare.  My 5 year old had been attending pre-school for 3 years, so I wasn't really worried about him.  The 2 year old though worried me.  He's a bit clingy (especially concerning me) and I was almost sick at the thought of having to send him.  I just kept repeating to myself that it was only for 10 weeks and then he'd be back home with his daddy.  Turns out, daycare was the best thing for that kid.  He's a lot more independent now, not clingy anymore, and he thrived in the daycare environment.  I found myself in tears when my husband's internship was over and we had to pull the boys out of daycare.  The daycare was great and worked out an arrangement with us that allowed us to still send the toddler there two days a week (unfortunately even though my older son loved it there, he's in kindergarten now, so has to go to school).  The first day we took the toddler back to the daycare facility, he got a big cheesy grin on his face, gave a big hug to the caregivers, and ran off to play with the other kids.  I know he missed them.  The daycare facility is wonderfully run by awesome people and I can't thank them enough for everything they have done and are doing for my kids.  Sometimes, spending time away from mommy and daddy is the best thing for a kid.

[MamaB]

4 hours ago, Jucifer said:

That's the thing, though.  Their bible says that homosexuality is a sin.  That's God's final word on the subject.  No debate needed.

It doesn't matter if it affects anyone else's marriage or life.

That's why arguing with a fundie is like arguing with a brick wall...

 

That's very true. The bible gives a clear understanding that homosexuality is wrong so to the fundy world there is no other option. There is no debate about it.

 

@Childless that is cute! I put my 20 month old in the nursery the first time the other day and I was expecting him to cry cause I was leaving him (which he does every time I love leave the room)but he just started laughing then went to the table smiling real big and coloring. Made me wanna cry.lol

[polecat]

10 hours ago, THERetroGamerNY said:

My mother had a terrifying dual personality in regards to the "cheerful" act she put on in public and church... And the abusive one in the house.

I've heard similar stories from other survivors quite often.

 

Exactly.

And it's "funny" (not funny haha) how you don't realize that it's so very typical until you're out of it and safe enough to talk openly. 

5 hours ago, Jucifer said:

That's the thing, though.  Their bible says that homosexuality is a sin.  That's God's final word on the subject.  No debate needed.

It doesn't matter if it affects anyone else's marriage or life.

That's why arguing with a fundie is like arguing with a brick wall...

 

 

The Bible also happens to say to "Obey them that have the rule over you," (Heb. 13:17), " Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God," (Rom. 13:1) and "Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake..." (1 Pet. 2:13).

 

Oh, and maybe I should have added Rom. 13:2:

"Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation."

[August]

7 hours ago, Jucifer said:

That's the thing, though.  Their bible says that homosexuality is a sin.  That's God's final word on the subject.  No debate needed.

It doesn't matter if it affects anyone else's marriage or life.

That's why arguing with a fundie is like arguing with a brick wall...

 

Their bible also says not to eat shellfish or wear mixed fibers, and they do that with abandon. They also choose to ignore the instructions for human sacrifice and slavery. What they choose to use from the book is absolutely chosen carefully accrding to their own internal morality and personal preference, just as the editors of the book have chosen what to include or exclude over the years. 

[August]

OP, if you truly do want all your children to have free choice in life, then why do you homeschool? It is usually chosen by fundies as a method of restricting what information their children get.  I have chosen to be a SAHM, after a full education, experience in the world and workplace, and careful discussion with my husband, when we were still bf/gf. 

We are all different, what happens to men who want to be cherished and protected? Is it fair to make them take all the responsibility? I know my husband feels the pressure of being sole breadwinner, although he loves his job. It's hardly fair to pressure a man into that just so the wife can gallivant with cookies and yarn. What if the man wants to gallivant instead? (yes, I totally gallivant with cookies and yarn)

On the point of valuing and caring for children, this is clearly not true. I have read so many statements from these women indicating that each pregnancy is not decided on after careful consideration of the emotional and physical resources of the family. It is not cherishing a child to just randomly and wantonly have babies. It is the responsibility of the parents to carefully decide before each child if they are going to be able to give that child as careful an upbringing as their first child, and if any of their existing children will suffer from an extra sibling. This could be something as simple as premature weaning or as complicated as not having the emotional resources that year because an older child is having a tough time and needs attention.

[Palimpsest]

16 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Would it be correct to say, then that your church does not teach that wives should be submissive or that being submissive is godly? Egalitarian marriages are considered fine too? 

My guess is that she will bring out the complementarian marriage defense.  She's already hinted strongly at that.

[RosyDaisy]

This is eerie. I feel like my mother is speaking from the grave.

[Terrie]

Another way of saying "complementarianism" is "separate but equal" which we generally acknowledge is a bunch of BS. Neither women nor men are a monlith. A man and a woman will think differently because they are individuals, not because one is a man and one is a women. Anyone who says there's a magical formula for how all relationships should work is doing some serious projecting,

[ladyamylynn]

Soo... The hands and feet of Jesus are going to pay her mortgage, homeowners insurance, property taxes, car insurance, car maintenance, utility bills, health care costs, home repair costs, food bills- what, indefinitely? Or are they going to drop off a casserole and mow her lawn once or twice? How about funeral costs and administrative costs associated with the estate? What about costs associated with the care of the children and their education? All of this could easily reach into the millions over a lifetime.

I'm sorry but I'm not buying it. Christians are just as given to apathy and greed as any other population.

[fundiefan]

I just find it so hard to believe that anyone believes a woman should not work but be supported by someone else her entire life.

That's half the population that is apparently to be supported by others? Really? How does that work in any way of thinking or belief system?

What about women who never get married? Who takes care of them if they aren't supposed to take care of themselves? What about orphans, without mother or father, who grow up 'in the system' - who takes care of those girls for their whole lives, after they're 18 and shoved out of the state system?

I have never, ever seen 'the church' fully support a family / woman for an entire life. Sure, they may be there right when some disaster strikes, but they are long gone by the time the bills come in and the cupboards are empty. And, even if they did stick around - I don't believe that the be the right way to do anything.

Women do a damn fine job of taking care of their families - put any mother under the stress of needing to provide for her children (anyone outside the line of thinking that 'someone else will take care of it') and watch that woman kick ass. A single mother, a widow, a woman post divorce...women kick ass and take names when their lives call for it. No woman would be given that drive and ability by any god if they were never meant to use it.

It's a nice thought, to think the church will take care of you, but I think it's fantasy, and dangerous. Not realistic in the least. Not even the best option.

[Terrie]

My grandmother was married and having kids more or less straight out of high school. That woman worked so hard, it makes me tired just thinking about. I'm sure many fundies would try to classify her as a "housewife" but the truth was my grandparents were poor and as farmers, she was no more a "house wife" than my grandfather was a "house husband" as they both worked their land and did not have outside jobs.

She had a huge garden that feed the family, canned so they would have food through the winter, sewed clothing, chopped wood, hauled water etc. Many fundies claim they are following in that traidtion. Um, no, you're not. My grandmother did whatever needed to be done to make sure her family survived. If they had been close enough to town for her to have a job, she darn well would have. They could have used the money! 

My grandmother lived her whole life believing that you did what had to be done, The idea of sitting around and letting the church take care of her would have offended her down to her toes. 

[Miranda]

2 hours ago, fundiefan said:

It's a nice thought, to think the church will take care of you, but I think it's fantasy, and dangerous. Not realistic in the least. Not even the best option.

Especially if you go to Zsu and PP's church. Doesn't she flat out tell people that the church is not a charity and to go look elsewhere for handouts?

Depending on your church for total support for years upon years is in no way realistic. They might be able to help cover a bill here and there or help out with work around the house, but even that will drop off in no time at all.

[Loveday]

2 hours ago, Terrie said:

My grandmother was married and having kids more or less straight out of high school. That woman worked so hard, it makes me tired just thinking about. I'm sure many fundies would try to classify her as a "housewife" but the truth was my grandparents were poor and as farmers, she was no more a "house wife" than my grandfather was a "house husband" as they both worked their land and did not have outside jobs.

She had a huge garden that feed the family, canned so they would have food through the winter, sewed clothing, chopped wood, hauled water etc. Many fundies claim they are following in that traidtion. Um, no, you're not. My grandmother did whatever needed to be done to make sure her family survived. If they had been close enough to town for her to have a job, she darn well would have. They could have used the money! 

My grandmother lived her whole life believing that you did what had to be done, The idea of sitting around and letting the church take care of her would have offended her down to her toes. 

You could be describing my grandma. She wasn't a farmer's wife, but she and Grandpa owned enough land that they had an enormous garden (they had to, it was the 1930s/40s and they eventually had five kids, plus that pesky WWII came along, so victory garden), so she did all the usual canning and preserving, plus made clothes and kept the house and her family clean without a bathroom until the early 1950s. She also went out and got a job in the local candy factory once her oldest daughter was old enough to do things like watch the younger ones and start supper when she got home from school. When I was growing up, she was STILL working at that candy factory and canning and preserving her garden produce. She almost never sat down, my grandma, there was always something else that had to be done.

I miss her more than I can say. 

[feministxtian]

3 hours ago, ladyamylynn said:

Soo... The hands and feet of Jesus are going to pay her mortgage, homeowners insurance, property taxes, car insurance, car maintenance, utility bills, health care costs, home repair costs, food bills- what, indefinitely? Or are they going to drop off a casserole and mow her lawn once or twice? How about funeral costs and administrative costs associated with the estate? What about costs associated with the care of the children and their education? All of this could easily reach into the millions over a lifetime.

I'm sorry but I'm not buying it. Christians are just as given to apathy and greed as any other population.

if you're lucky you'll get a couple of gift cards to WalMart.

I will say that Mr. Xtian and I had the good fortune to qualify for a program administered by a local non-profit that is paying for both of us to go to school for vocational retraining, and there is financial help for everything from rent/utilities to groceries. They also paid for all Mr's equipment to start school. 

[fundiefan]

The work put in by more of our grandmother's than not would put most stay at home promoting fundies to shame. When they think women need to stay at home, they are thinking of the wealthy folks who had servants do their work for them, so they could sew and have bible study and be a 24 hour mom and 'have' dinner on the table when dad got home from work.

The fact is, in most societies, throughout time, that is not how life was lived. Who do fundies think was 'the help' for the wealthy? Those washer girls and nannies and maids? They were mothers of their own families who had to go OUT TO WORK. When society was mostly agricultural, before the industrial revolution, women were working the fields right next to the men while the kids followed behind doing whatever work they could. During the industrial revolution, women were off in the factories with the men, and so were their children, trying to make a pittance to survive on since there was no way on the planet one factory salary could support a family.

In ancient times, sure, women were 'at home' cooking, cleaning, etc...but that involved real work and not just being at home. It mean killing the chickens and cows and skinning them and churning the butter and making the wine and ale - after harvesting the grain and/or grapes.

We could all make this a million page list with the facts throughout history, even in Jesus's time; women worked and supported their families just as men did.  Even those who worked at home were not being godly mothers homeschooling the kids while dad or the church supported them; they were doing down and dirty work every second of every day for survival.

It makes me very angry that fundies use the Victorian wealthy woman as the guiding example of being female.

[Lurky]

My grandad died when my dad was 13 and his brother 11, back in the 1950s/60s - he was a coalminer, and he was part of the Buffalo's, kind of like a working class Freemasons, mixed with a friendly society/workers' insurance etc.  Very socialist, these things have been around in UK mining and industrial communities since Victorian times.  Everyone would pay their financial dues, and in return, if anything happened to them, they and their family would be helped. 

So my grandma had help, when her husband died, and her family helped, and people in the village helped, because it was a coal mining village, and everyone knew how dangerous it could be.  But still, she had to supplement this working as a cleaner for the local big house.  The key thing was that the boys could stay in school, and get an education, and better themselves - and not ever ever work down a coalmine (which was prescient, as Thatcher closed them all in the 80s). 

What I'm saying with this story was that even with a very strong community, that helped each other out, and had the Buffalos system that enabled there to be money to help out people in  trouble - and it was still a hard, poor life.  My grandma got great comfort from the face she could help buy things for her sons - a second hand bike, that jacket he wanted and so on, because living on other people's charity is horrible, and while you might be helped with the bills, you also have to live with their judgement, and people feeling they can tell you what to do/not to do, and your kids can never have things most kids take for granted - a top in their favourite colour, a pair of nice trainers, a birthday present they want, not what the church has decided they should have.  Of course, lots of people live in this kind of poverty, but there's a certain kind of awful about having to be continually dependent on a church that could decide you're not godly enough/don't need support at any time.

ETA and actually, in the Smith/Morton clans, don't they all homechurch?  or family church?  So there isn't even a support structure from church.  Trying to think which of these families have a church that could help.  Shraders, yes; Rodriguii, yes; PP & Zsu - well it's their church, so not sure how that would work; Duggars and Bateses are their own church?  Arndts?