Jinger & Jerk V - Engaged

[Angelic83]

I heard the song "son of a preacherman" on the radio the other day and now have an image of jer and jinger in my head when I hear that song . Maybe it can be there weddingsong  

[0kids&counting]

So, today is the day I made an account and come out of several years of lurk.  Guess it took my girl Jinger to get me motivated ;-). 

I know someone mentioned hopes of her being like Alyssa someday.  I guess I can see that (or hopeful at least) because he reminds me a lot of John.  Tall and handsome, been in the real world a little more instead of complete fundie land.  But still would like a cute, obedient lady to be his counterpart  (John is in politics, right?)....I could see Jeremy thinking she'd be an ideal wife if he needs a counterpart for his religious following.

[EmCatlyn]

51 minutes ago, habert said:

yeah Chuck Vuolo is not great

here's his sermons on Biblical masculinity and femininity from 2004 (when Jeremy would have been 16/17)

including titles as Biblical Masculinity Biologically Confirmed, and  Raising Masculine Boys, and Jesus Christ as our Example of Biblical Masculinity

Oh, and my favorite, his only one about woman after his intro sermon: Biblical Femininity Perverted by the Fall

He is a misogynist, his son is one too I have no doubt. Just like JB, just like Josh, just like everyone. It is a tenet of  these cults.

I can't get through the sermons.  But about Jeremy, not all sons of misogynists become misogynists themselves.  Further, Jeremy's mom and sister seem to have had more freedom than the Duggar females.  Fundies come in many shapes and sizes.

In some ways, it will be better for the Duggar kidults to marry people from somewhat fundie backgrounds.  Imagine the shock of marrying into a secular family where no one understands or praises the carefully cultivated "servant's heart."  With Jeremy, Jinger may be encouraged to read, to understand more. She may be given the space to develop her photography. And Jeremy may evolve.  He may be patriarchal without being misogynistic.

This would be a best-case scenario.  The opposite may be true and Jeremy will decide to follow JB.  I am just saying that it is not an either/or situation.  There are degrees of fundiness and at least the Vuolos didn't deny their kids an education.

[danni9242]

4 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

I can't get through the sermons.  But about Jeremy, not all sons of misogynists become misogynists themselves.  Further, Jeremy's mom and sister seem to have had more freedom than the Duggar females.  Fundies come in many shapes and sizes.

In some ways, it will be better for the Duggar kidults to marry people from somewhat fundie backgrounds.  Imagine the shock of marrying into a secular family where no one understands or praises the carefully cultivated "servant's heart."  With Jeremy, Jinger may be encouraged to read, to understand more. She may be given the space to develop her photography. And Jeremy may evolve.  He may be patriarchal without being misogynistic.

This would be a best-case scenario.  The opposite may be true and Jeremy will decide to follow JB.  I am just saying that it is not an either/or situation.  There are degrees of fundiness and at least the Vuolos didn't deny their kids an education.

This is why I have hope. Jeremy has had genuine interactions with non fun dies and experienced the world without parental chaperones.

[marmalade]

So had Derick and we see how that turned out. 

eta: I love my new post count title! Talk about sons of misogynists not falling far from the tree! 

[danni9242]

It's true, but Derrick always seemed more of a wet blanket than Jeremy comes across. Jeremy and Jinger seem to hug/touch far more than the others all did and there's a definite hint of repeated front hugs etc. Plus he's not going to need Jimboob  at all. I know I'm probably over optimistic but I really want Jinger to stand a chance.

[Dr. Fundie Stalker]

17 minutes ago, danni9242 said:

This is why I have hope. Jeremy has had genuine interactions with non fun dies and experienced the world without parental chaperones.

Based on his background I'm am curious about whether it will make their wedding and wedding night less bizarre than the others. From a physical affection perspective?? 

[marmalade]

We all want all these fundie girls to "stand a chance." That's why FJ exists.  But let's face it, most of them end up in pretty much the same place they started. Who knows how much Jeremy makes as a preacher at a plant church? How easy it could , be for him to plant a church in NWA and live in a JB rental house for free. I HOPE I am wrong, and Jeremy stays put, remaining independent from JB's wallet. But with that said, they will be tethered to TLC for the forseeable future, keeping them close to the Mothership. I don't see any large scale changes for ANY of the Duggar spawn until the TLC cameras go away. Until then, all of the kidults and their spouses will be "yes" men and women. 

[Cassia]

Haha, I just watched the preview on TLC.
I smirked when Derrick said something along the lines of, "We should try to have another baby before next year."
I imagine that Jill was thinking, "OMG Derrick, you're not following script! "TRY" to have a baby is making it sound like we might just maybe possibly have some modicum of control over when we have a baby. This sounds like YOUR plan! WHAT ABOUT GOD'S PLAN?!?!?!?!?!"

[eveandadam]

Jessa looks pregnant in the engagement photo of Jinger (it's her face und the fact that she is hungded over with a baggy tshirt).

[Italiangirl]

I Just go to snark a bit on the Bates family blog (notte the lily and ellie one)  and there Was a becky comment even there... Uff she is so crepy!! I can't belive se is everywhere 

[Pianokeeper]

1 hour ago, EmCatlyn said:

I can't get through the sermons.  But about Jeremy, not all sons of misogynists become misogynists themselves.  Further, Jeremy's mom and sister seem to have had more freedom than the Duggar females.  Fundies come in many shapes and sizes.

In some ways, it will be better for the Duggar kidults to marry people from somewhat fundie backgrounds.  Imagine the shock of marrying into a secular family where no one understands or praises the carefully cultivated "servant's heart."  With Jeremy, Jinger may be encouraged to read, to understand more. She may be given the space to develop her photography. And Jeremy may evolve.  He may be patriarchal without being misogynistic.

This would be a best-case scenario.  The opposite may be true and Jeremy will decide to follow JB.  I am just saying that it is not an either/or situation.  There are degrees of fundiness and at least the Vuolos didn't deny their kids an education.

Wait, is that possible? Really and truly?

[sophie10130]

4 minutes ago, Pianokeeper said:

Wait, is that possible? Really and truly?

I don't see how it could be. Patriarchal is where you think the men are all better suited to lead the house and basically the entire world. That's misogyny. Two sides of the same coin, imo.

[halcionne]

26 minutes ago, Italiangirl said:

I Just go to snark a bit on the Bates family blog (notte the lily and ellie one)  and there Was a becky comment even there... Uff she is so crepy!! I can't belive se is everywhere 

I've been away. Who is this Becky?

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, halcionne said:

I've been away. Who is this Becky?

She comments on every single Bates family member's Instagram posts. She's so pushy and mega creepy.

[EmCatlyn]

Just now, Pianokeeper said:

 

Quote

He may be patriarchal without being misogynistic.

Wait, is that possible? Really and truly?

Yes. 

Misogyny is the dislike of  women.  True misogynists see women as different creatures from men and can't bond with women even when married. They can love individual women (mother, sister, wife  daughter--even friend) but as an exception for that/those specific women.  They dislike or mistrust women as a group.  Many misogynists feel contempt for women, but a few may have an a sort of respect tinged with hatred toward women (who can have power over men with sex, motherhood, etc.).

Patriarchy is a hierarchical system that places men ahead of women. A person (male or female) who is patriarchal sees men as having natural authority over women. It is possible for a man to like and feel close to women and still feel that men are the logical or natural rulers.  A person may be patriarchal without being misogynistic, and vice-versa.

Jeremy might believe that men should be the head of the household and that a woman must submit and still be able to love and respect a woman as a person.  If he is a misogynist, however, he would find it hard to relate to Jinger or any other woman as a person.  

While it is true that some forms of extreme patriarchy facilitate or reward misogyny, a person can be patriarchal without being misogynistic, and a misogynist may not be patriarchal at all. (I know a couple of men who are very liberal, egalitarian, sincere in their belief that women are not inferior to men, etc... And very misogynistic.) 

[Ace3]

22 hours ago, FrumperedCat said:

In my family which wasn't very religious my mum didn't like OMG either so instead of saying "God" we'd say "Gosh". It also meant that if we slipped up we could just pretend that our mother had misheard it

Family friends our ours (very religious) were not even allowed to say "gosh" because the intention to say "God" was there. They also couldn't say darn, dang it, crud, shoot...you get the picture, because they were all stand in words for the more intentional "damn, damn it, crap, shit..." yeah. It was a hoot. So saying something like 'gosh darn it' was grounds for grounding/spanking. No joke.

My mom was much more easy going and as long as we didn't cuss she didn't care. I still remember the first time she said bitch while I was in the car...that was a moment for the books. Probably similarly to when she heard me cuss for the first time as an adult. She just laughed and laughed. 

[EmCatlyn]

25 minutes ago, sophie10130 said:

I don't see how it could be. Patriarchal is where you think the men are all better suited to lead the house and basically the entire world. That's misogyny. Two sides of the same coin, imo.

The two terms are often confused.  But they are very different.  Misogyny is a personal attitude.  It may express itself collectively, but it is about feelings.  Patriarchy is about division of power and inheritance.

My best analogy is that a misogynist is like a racist who believes that there is something inherently different between races and his own is better.  A person who is patriarchal  is more like a believer in a specific political or social system (democracy, facism, communism, oligarchy).   

 

[sophie10130]

6 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

The two terms are often confused.  But they are very different.  Misogyny is a personal attitude.  It may express itself collectively, but it is about feelings.  Patriarchy is about division of power and inheritance.

My best analogy is that a misoginist is like a racist who believes that there is something inherently different between races.  A patriarchal supporter is like a believer in a specific political system (democracy, facism, communism, oligarchy). 

 

But the heart of patriarchy is that you believe men are superior in roles of authority. That is prejudice against women, which is misogyny.

Edited to add: I think it's similar to saying you believe in the merits of slavery but you aren't a racist.

[iweartanktops]

1 hour ago, eveandadam said:

Jessa looks pregnant in the engagement photo of Jinger (it's her face und the fact that she is hungded over with a baggy tshirt).

I'm sure if or when Jessa is pregnant, she will announce it eventually. You know, because it's her body, and she has every right to discuss her body at her discretion. 

[eveandadam]

4 minutes ago, iweartanktops said:

I'm sure if or when Jessa is pregnant, she will announce it eventually. You know, because it's her body, and she has every right to discuss her body at her discretion. 

and because we never discuss possible pregnancies here on the board. we never do that, never have, never will.

[SpoonfulOSugar]

5 minutes ago, eveandadam said:

and because we never discuss possible pregnancies here on the board. we never do that, never have, never will.

Because dissecting another woman's body and gleefully examining her images for any signs of pregnancy elevates women how, exactly?

*Many* posters have expressed dismay and dislike for this.

We have a plentitude of other issues to discuss.  Giddily dishing on someone's facial fullness or clothing choices is one of the things we have encouraged members to carefully consider.

It's *not* elevated snark.  It's much closer to leg humping.

[JesSky03]

17 minutes ago, iweartanktops said:

I'm sure if or when Jessa is pregnant, she will announce it eventually. You know, because it's her body, and she has every right to discuss her body at her discretion. 

Yeah, this whole analyzing Jessa's body makes me uncomfortable. What difference does it make if we figure out she is pregnant now or wait until she announces it in a few weeks (IF that's the case)? It doesn't make any difference. None.  Maybe I'm a little more sensitive to it because I have been TTC since September, but I would be pissed off if knew people were looking at me to see if I was pregnant yet. Because I'm not, and I don't know when I will be, and I don't need other people's opinions about it. Yeah they put their lives and fertility out on display for the whole world, but some kind of line should be drawn so as not to be completely disrespectful not only to Jessa but to other women out there who have given birth and may not have bounced back to their pre-pregnancy bodies yet and to women who are TTC and it might not be going as well as they hoped and don't need the added stress of people analyzing if they have a baby bump or not. 

[Lillymuffin]

Sorry--I just saw this. (I've been preoccupied w/ the Naug's Poopgate and I fell down the rabbit hole that was AD.) 

Unless that's a backdrop, photos are most likely taken from Top of the Rock at Rockefeller Center, in midtown Manhattan. The building lit up on the far right is definitely the Empire State Building. The one in the center is whatever is next to the Marriott Marquis in the Theatre District (can't remember right now and my father the NY encyclopedia is napping). Can't recall what the one on the left is, but sure it's midtown. 

[Jinder Roles]

2 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I can't get through the sermons.  But about Jeremy, not all sons of misogynists become misogynists themselves.  Further, Jeremy's mom and sister seem to have had more freedom than the Duggar females.  Fundies come in many shapes and sizes.

In some ways, it will be better for the Duggar kidults to marry people from somewhat fundie backgrounds.  Imagine the shock of marrying into a secular family where no one understands or praises the carefully cultivated "servant's heart."  With Jeremy, Jinger may be encouraged to read, to understand more. She may be given the space to develop her photography. And Jeremy may evolve.  He may be patriarchal without being misogynistic.

This would be a best-case scenario.  The opposite may be true and Jeremy will decide to follow JB.  I am just saying that it is not an either/or situation.  There are degrees of fundiness and at least the Vuolos didn't deny their kids an education.

Hmm...I don't know. He might be more subtle in his misogyny though. Especially since Jeremy seems to be fundie, I'm sure he subscribes to a lot of their misogynistic teachings. 

Plus, sexism is something you usually have to consciously unlearn.  I guess we'll see.