Jazz Hands, Sparkle Crotch: Erika Schupe Pt. 9

[mango_fandango]

The blog actually says fall, not November. That photo featuring the notes that was edited is from October.

 

[Hisey]

25 minutes ago, laurenzimm said:

I have to think CPS came in, as she mentions having her world turned upside down in November 2016. Suddenly, her kids are in public school and a video she posts-of herself-looks like she's been thru hell. 

Really? We are all speculating here, but I don't think it was CPS. CPS has so  much to deal with, I can't believe they even opened a file on the Shupes (once they got the fire-hazard bedroom situation taken care of). The Shupe kids were fed, clothed, extremely clean, had a roof over there head, and neither parent was addicted to any substances. There are thousands of kids in Washington state not nearly so fortunately. I also don't think CPS can force you to send your kids to school (though I could be wrong about this).

I think it was either financial problems, a mental health issue, or a medical problem of some sort, in that order. I do hope nobody's sick. 

[mango_fandango]

She says this in the post:

 One of my main goals has been to complete as much of my work responsibilities as possible while the kids are in school,

Could this imply that she's working at home, at least a little bit? I think she's said previously that she did do a little bit of work for her dad in the past. Although, actually, the wording is quite confusing, and she could just be using "work" as normal household stuff. Erika's phrased stuff weirdly in the past.

[DaisyD]

1 hour ago, Hisey said:

Really? We are all speculating here, but I don't think it was CPS. CPS has so  much to deal with, I can't believe they even opened a file on the Shupes (once they got the fire-hazard bedroom situation taken care of). The Shupe kids were fed, clothed, extremely clean, had a roof over there head, and neither parent was addicted to any substances. There are thousands of kids in Washington state not nearly so fortunately. I also don't think CPS can force you to send your kids to school (though I could be wrong about this).

I think it was either financial problems, a mental health issue, or a medical problem of some sort, in that order. I do hope nobody's sick. 

I tend to agree with you on the one hand. I don't see how CPS could force them to do public school. They took no issue with me homeschooling (or anything else I was doing, ftm). On the other hand, once they're involved, they definitely take the opportunity to check out anything they can for other potential problems. For instance, they came into contact with us because I allowed my daughter to have a sleep over with my mil and niece. My fil got drunk and crazy. Everything was handled as well as could be by mil. She got the girls to safety and called the police (who never even notified me until I raised a stink about it). Still, I was investigated by CPS. They wanted to interview everyone in the house and check the house, even though the inciting incident occurred elsewhere. They will investigate at any opportunity when given a reason.

The broken world comment, coming from a complete outsider, says outside forces to me. I don't see how they could force PS, but if they made other requirements that made Erika come to that conclusion, that would be plausible to me...

[Hisey]

12 minutes ago, DaisyD said:

I tend to agree with you on the one hand. I don't see how CPS could force them to do public school. They took no issue with me homeschooling (or anything else I was doing, ftm). On the other hand, once they're involved, they definitely take the opportunity to check out anything they can for other potential problems. For instance, they came into contact with us because I allowed my daughter to have a sleep over with my mil and niece. My fil got drunk and crazy. Everything was handled as well as could be by mil. She got the girls to safety and called the police (who never even notified me until I raised a stink about it). Still, I was investigated by CPS. They wanted to interview everyone in the house and check the house, even though the inciting incident occurred elsewhere. They will investigate at any opportunity when given a reason.

The broken world comment, coming from a complete outsider, says outside forces to me. I don't see how they could force PS, but if they made other requirements that made Erika come to that conclusion, that would be plausible to me...

Wow, I'm sorry your daughter went through that and hope she was not too scared. . .

1 hour ago, mango_fandango said:

She says this in the post:

 

 

Could this imply that she's working at home, at least a little bit? I think she's said previously that she did do a little bit of work for her dad in the past. Although, actually, the wording is quite confusing, and she could just be using "work" as normal household stuff. Erika's phrased stuff weirdly in the past.

I think she is. Because it's sure not SAHM stuff that's taking up her time. That schedule of "Kathy's" makes us SAHMs look bad--reading? digital scrapbooking?--those are things I do in the evening when I'm ready to relax.

[DaisyD]

She's fine now. I assured her that she would never have to see fil again. I've even got a plan if he decides to show up to a wedding that's later this year. It's really hard to explain mental illness to kids who just want to love a grandfather, but she's a smart kid, I think she understands (though I wish she didn't need to yet). I might be more upset about the whole thing than she was. That mama bear instinct is fierce.

[mango_fandango]

I think this has been mentioned here before, but I just looked at that tasks list properly. Bloody hell, "Kathy" does NOTHING! She does the laundry four times a week and the cooking but that is IT. If that is a reflection of what Erika's schedule of tasks is like, then she is incredibly lazy. 

[JillyO]

25 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

I think this has been mentioned here before, but I just looked at that tasks list properly. Bloody hell, "Kathy" does NOTHING! She does the laundry four times a week and the cooking but that is IT. If that is a reflection of what Erika's schedule of tasks is like, then she is incredibly lazy. 

Holy crap, no kidding.

The kids (who are in school for most of the day), on the other hand, are responsible for:

• Sweeping, vacuuming and mopping the floors
• Cleaning the bathrooms
• Cleaning the kitchen, including the stove and fridge
• Cleaning up after dinner
• Feeding, walking and grooming the dog
• One kid is apparently responsible for checking that all other kids made their beds
• Weeding
• Cleaning mirrors and glass doors
• Taking out the trash daily
• Feeding birds and cleaning out the cage
• Cleaning the fish tank

What the actual fuck? I hope to God Erika secretely has a job and doesn't just sit around on her lazy ass all day long.

[Coy Koi]

26 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

I think this has been mentioned here before, but I just looked at that tasks list properly. Bloody hell, "Kathy" does NOTHING! She does the laundry four times a week and the cooking but that is IT. If that is a reflection of what Erika's schedule of tasks is like, then she is incredibly lazy. 

I have to say that cooking, shopping, and doing laundry for a family of 7 (apparently "Kathy" has 5 kids) does not seem like nothing to me. It does make it seem like a person must do very little if they specifically list minuscule tasks like wiping out the microwave, and things that are leisure activities rather than tasks, like scrapbooking, but I think Erika is just weird. She may be a lot of things (controlling as fuck, hypocritical, know-it-all...), but I don't get the impression that lazy is one of them.

Kathy's task list looks ridiculous but I think her actual schedule looks pretty reasonable.

[Lurky]

My question about about families like the Shupes and Jeubs, who were such homeschool evangelists, with so much to say about evil public school, but then change their minds:  How do they explain this to the kids?  And what do they say to the kids who were homeschooled and bore the brunt of the harsh experimental lifestyles, about the fact their siblings will be brought up differently?

I just don't get it.  The kids will have been indoctrinated for so any years about the evils of public school, how it's ungodly and dangerous etc - how do they turn that round?  Does it freak the children out?  How do they make the transition?   I watched what eg the Rodrigues kids said about the scary dangers, and how grateful they were to be protected - going to school must be pretty terrifying after that, especially for kids who've been isolated/live in the weird Shupe/Maxwell joyless proscribed lives.

I know that the Jeubs had the excuse of "covenant schools have changed things and are different, so it's OK", but still....    Does anyone have any experience of this, or know of any accounts of going through changes like this?  (from kids' perspective, ideally, because the parents will always think they're right, but that must be a weird cognitive dissonance for children, being told their parents are always right and Godly, so they weren't wrong before, but now have a 180º turn on a major belief...)

 

[MakeitSew]

I've known some families who were staunch homeschoolers and did the whole modest dress, women are keepers of the home sort of thing, and then when their oldest kids got into highschool they transitioned into more modern fashion choices, public school and all around more freedom of thought and choice. Suddenly the kids were going to movies, listening to secular music and going to drivers ed. 

I never understood the change but hey, it ended well for the families I knew. AFAIK none of the families ever really explained how this change in thinking occurred. It's easiest to brush it off as "God's direction", I guess. That takes away the uncomfortable responsibility of admitting that yeah, you were adhering to a kind of fucked up system and now you have realized it's not your cup of tea.

I am of the opinion that Erika IS loosening up in her beliefs and that she is embarrassed to admit it. What would her readers think of her? While I personally think that humility and openness about her beliefs, struggles and changes in thinking would be more "authentic" than being oh-so-vague, maybe she is afraid that she will lose her fan base if she admits that public school isn't the monster she has made it out to be, that wearing pants won't cause your crotch to be visually outlined in neon and women can work outside of the home AND be loving, successful mothers, wives and house keepers at the same time. 

The only other reasonable explanation I can think of is that Erika or Bob has medical issues that will prevent them from continuing life as they are used to. I don't wish medical problems on anyone so I hope this is not the case. If Erika is battling an illness that could explain why she no longer feels up to homeschooling or, if she really is home all day, working outside the home. If Bob is ill then Erika would need time to care for him and there may not be as much $$ on hand for curriculum and such. 

 

[ActualReality]

On 1/15/2017 at 0:17 PM, Koala said:

Is that so?

Erika Shupe:

I quote these things "strait" <--*rolls eyes* forwardly.  I wouldn't be an observant reader if I didn't point out the contradictions.  *hugs*

Seriously, if the reader replies, nothing would be more perfect that Erika's own words.

I remember this exchange from a few years ago.  If it's the same one i'm thinking about it caused QUITE the shit storm on her page.

I think the thing with people who live in such a black and white world is that when it all comes tumbling down it's quite a shock.  I mean she's taken the time to create this "perfect" world for her family and they  reality comes in and knocks down her house of cards.  It's got to be shocking.

It would not surprise me AT ALL if she were mentally unstable and also one of those people who thinks that everything would be fine if people would just do things her way.  While she portrays all of this sunshine and light it's VERY hard to maintain that facade!  Everything about her screams nervous breakdown!  Likely triggered by the older girls wanted to carve their own path.

Also - she reads this blog from time to time.  Perception management is a HIGH priority!   So it's easy to cast this lot into the bucket of sinners, yet some of it has got to sting (because some of the observations here ring true).  

[Hisey]

Quote

 If Bob is ill then Erika would need time to care for him and there may not be as much $$ on hand for curriculum and such. 

Or if Bob is sick and say, getting chemo treatments, he may not want 9 kids careening around the house.

[ActualReality]

5 hours ago, MakeitSew said:

I've known some families who were staunch homeschoolers and did the whole modest dress, women are keepers of the home sort of thing, and then when their oldest kids got into highschool they transitioned into more modern fashion choices, public school and all around more freedom of thought and choice. Suddenly the kids were going to movies, listening to secular music and going to drivers ed. 

I never understood the change but hey, it ended well for the families I knew. AFAIK none of the families ever really explained how this change in thinking occurred. It's easiest to brush it off as "God's direction", I guess. That takes away the uncomfortable responsibility of admitting that yeah, you were adhering to a kind of fucked up system and now you have realized it's not your cup of tea.

I am of the opinion that Erika IS loosening up in her beliefs and that she is embarrassed to admit it. What would her readers think of her? While I personally think that humility and openness about her beliefs, struggles and changes in thinking would be more "authentic" than being oh-so-vague, maybe she is afraid that she will lose her fan base if she admits that public school isn't the monster she has made it out to be, that wearing pants won't cause your crotch to be visually outlined in neon and women can work outside of the home AND be loving, successful mothers, wives and house keepers at the same time. 

The only other reasonable explanation I can think of is that Erika or Bob has medical issues that will prevent them from continuing life as they are used to. I don't wish medical problems on anyone so I hope this is not the case. If Erika is battling an illness that could explain why she no longer feels up to homeschooling or, if she really is home all day, working outside the home. If Bob is ill then Erika would need time to care for him and there may not be as much $$ on hand for curriculum and such. 

 

There is a perfectly reasonable explainition for this that has nothing to do with medical issues.  I was raised in a conservative community and I understand this "conversion" when the kids grown up.

The parents believe that if they read their bible and do as it says then there's no way that the kids will have "undesirable" outcomes.  Meaning, there will be no wildness, short shirts or desire for things of the "world".  They see other people's kids go off and do these things and they decide that 1-the children were not raised properly, 2- the devil somehow got into the home.   or 2-the parent's faith and execution of God's will was not strong enough.  The bible says that if you train up a child in the way he should go he will not depart from it.

Then the kids turn 18 and reality hits.  Teens get defiant, Gay kids come out, kids have premarital sex or God forbid get pregnant.  It could even be something as minor as wanting to go to the movies with friends or otherwise participate in "the world".  It's often devastating for these kinds of parents.  They either relent and loosen control, risk losing their kids or are embarrassed in their community.   Meanwhile parents of younger children are just as critical of them as they were of others before their kids hit that stage.

What's more, Erika gave away enough personal information to fill 10 CPS files.  So she kind of brought it on herself by ignoring the rules of the outside world and assuming that God would protect her.   Jokes on her.

Kids raised in these families turn out just like everybody else's kids.  Some good, some bad, There will be unwanted pregnancies, divorces, drinking, etc.  Just like everybody else.  no matter how much she "protected".  

All too soon they figure out that they've sacrificed so much and wasted their time .  I've seen in a million times over!!

 

[Hisey]

22 hours ago, Coy Koi said:

I have to say that cooking, shopping, and doing laundry for a family of 7 (apparently "Kathy" has 5 kids) does not seem like nothing to me. It does make it seem like a person must do very little if they specifically list minuscule tasks like wiping out the microwave, and things that are leisure activities rather than tasks, like scrapbooking, but I think Erika is just weird. She may be a lot of things (controlling as fuck, hypocritical, know-it-all...), but I don't get the impression that lazy is one of them.

Kathy's task list looks ridiculous but I think her actual schedule looks pretty reasonable.

Here's why I think Kathy's schedule is so lame.

I think Erika needs the kids to do the bulk of the housework because she is busy doing something else all day. I think she took her own schedule, erased the part that says "Erika at work" and put in some homemaking stuff. Since the kids were already doing most of the work, there wasn't much to put in "Kathy's" section, so she inserted "digital scrapbooking" and other "work" like that.

[Coy Koi]

2 hours ago, Hisey said:

Here's why I think Kathy's schedule is so lame.

I think Erika needs the kids to do the bulk of the housework because she is busy doing something else all day. I think she took her own schedule, erased the part that says "Erika at work" and put in some homemaking stuff. Since the kids were already doing most of the work, there wasn't much to put in "Kathy's" section, so she inserted "digital scrapbooking" and other "work" like that.

And I think you're probably right about that, but I was just saying that I don't think the fake schedule actually looks so bad like a lot of people were saying. I don't think there's anything wrong with a SAHM not necessarily rushing around all day. If you have five school-aged kids and you're doing all the school runs, laundry, cooking, and even the microwave cleaning (lol), then I don't think that's lazy at all, even if you find some time during the day to read for pleasure or scrapbook or whatever. I know many SAHMs work very hard, but I think a lot of them DO have some leisure time during the day too, whether it be during naptime, school hours, TV time, or whatever. And there's nothing wrong with that. Staying at home doesn't need to be like (some) jobs where you're expected to be actively producing whenever you're on the clock. It's just a different sort of setup.

[meee]

Wasn't she always really lazy though? I thought I remembered her old schedules being like "Karen and Melanie make and clean up lunch, Erika facilitates".

[mango_fandango]

Yeah. The old schedules seem to consist of a lot of "facilitate x" or "supervise y". Not to say that that's not important, but the kids were doing the bulk of the work.

[pancakes]

I think it's reasonable to assume that her leisure time is during the school day. With our family the older kids are in school so there's time during the day to do more frivolous things. When everyone is home in the evening it's a rush of extracurricular activities, dinner, cleaning up, homework, getting lunches and things ready for the next day, and bedtime. For a mom with a lot of kids in school there really isn't time to relax, unwind, and do other things in the evening so it makes sense to try and get a bit of personal time in during the day.

[Koala]

If Erika is at home alone all day, caring for the home should be her job.  Saving it for the kids, who have been "working" all day in school (so she, "Kathy" can scrapbook)  seems ridiculous.

Don't get me wrong.  They should still be making their beds, straightening their rooms, and putting away their laundry.  I could even get behind them taking turns cleaning up after dinner (maybe in groups of 2).  The rest should be done by the person with no job, who's home all day.

I am betting the load of public school work has been a shock to the Shupe kids.  They are used to cracker math and Bible time.  Now they have real work AND homework.  Not to mention the amount of catch up they're likely doing.  They no longer have time to raise each other and be Erika's live in servants.
 

[Eternalbluepearl]

1 hour ago, mango_fandango said:

Yeah. The old schedules seem to consist of a lot of "facilitate x" or "supervise y". Not to say that that's not important, but the kids were doing the bulk of the work.

Erika touched on this in old blog posts. I remember her saying one of the pieces of advice she gleaned from Managers Of Their Homes was that the mom should be the manager, not the main worker or something to that effect. I'm paraphrasing but basically that the mom was the overseer. 

[December]

3 hours ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

I remember her saying one of the pieces of advice she gleaned from Managers Of Their Homes was that the mom should be the manager, not the main worker or something to that effect.

 

How convenient! It's so funny when all these fundie families have to talk about delegating all these tasks to their children. Like, if people would only have as many kids as they can comfortably afford and raise without overtaxing themselves, there'd be less work for everyone and they wouldn't need to be scheduling every second of their days.

22 hours ago, ActualReality said:

The parents believe that if they read their bible and do as it says then there's no way that the kids will have "undesirable" outcomes.

 

Exactly. It's ridiculous for someone to say that raising a child a certain way will eliminate any potential for "wayward" behavior. Sure, some kids will wind up following all the rules because it is just easier to comply or they like the simplicity of having their whole lives neatly laid out for them. But how many of these blogging families that claim to have all the answers still wind up having one or more kids that don't conform to their rigid, exacting belief system as adults? Quite a few examples that they themselves mention. Almost like kids are individuals who can develop their own unique opinions and personalities, no matter how hard parents try to fit them all into the same narrow mold!

[ActualReality]

20 hours ago, December said:

How convenient! It's so funny when all these fundie families have to talk about delegating all these tasks to their children. Like, if people would only have as many kids as they can comfortably afford and raise without overtaxing themselves, there'd be less work for everyone and they wouldn't need to be scheduling every second of their days.

Exactly. It's ridiculous for someone to say that raising a child a certain way will eliminate any potential for "wayward" behavior. Sure, some kids will wind up following all the rules because it is just easier to comply or they like the simplicity of having their whole lives neatly laid out for them. But how many of these blogging families that claim to have all the answers still wind up having one or more kids that don't conform to their rigid, exacting belief system as adults? Quite a few examples that they themselves mention. Almost like kids are individuals who can develop their own unique opinions and personalities, no matter how hard parents try to fit them all into the same narrow mold!

What's amazing to me is the resistance to change even in the face of overwhelming evidence.  I guess there are none so blind as those who will not see.  In my old church the kids who were "lost to the world" were routinely mourned/ignored while the "good" kids were held up as an example of how effective the parenting tactics where. 

[DaisyD]

I'd have been screwed in that environment. I had fairly liberal parents (I wouldn't have believed it at the time) and I still rebelled. 

[lilah]

I think it was very telling that she scrubbed her blog of all the schedules that give evidence that the kids were barely doing any schoolwork. As others have said I don't think CPS could force them to send their kids to public school but maybe getting investigated them spooked enough to do it on their own? That coupled with financial stress.

Oh and I'm totally snarking on how "Kathy " spends her entire Thursday afternoon working on to-do lists. Seriously Kathy you need to get a life