Seventeen - Not the Magazine - Bateseseses Threads!

[mstee]

I think the description for the episode a week ago mentioned something about Alyssa discussing expanding her family. What was that all about? 

[Melissa1977]

54 minutes ago, mstee said:

I think the description for the episode a week ago mentioned something about Alyssa discussing expanding her family. What was that all about? 

She said she wants to enjoy Allie and she's not in a rush to have more children by now.

Some posters said it meant she was using birth control and others said that there was no proof of that.

Anyway, she's not copying her parents, that is good news, specially for Allie.

[Palimpsest]

11 hours ago, TuringMachine said:

Can someone tell me when Gil Bates joined the board? I've been having trouble figuring this out.

IBLP (annoyingly) doesn't announce changes on the BoD so we always find out about them long after the fact.

My memory is that we first noticed Gil Bates as a member of the board of IBLP in late 2012/early 2013.  Prior to that he was apparently on the ATI BoD so he was advanced in the hierarchy.  He's been deeply involved for a long time.

Lawson in his famous instagram tried to minimize all that. per Lawson, Gil is a new board member and knew nothing about the allegations - yada, yada.   http://www.inquisitr.com/2815408/as-sexual-abuse-allegations-roll-in-reality-stars-shun-bill-gothard-duggars-silent/

However, Lawson's story is not remotely plausible.  Recovering Grace was founded in 2011 and published many stories before the lawsuit was finally filed.  Bates was definitely on the BoD when they hired David Gill, Jr. in late 2013 to conduct a fake investigation (allegedly) into the RG's accusations about Gothard.  That is why he is named personally in the lawsuit.

[TuringMachine]

8 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

IBLP (annoyingly) doesn't announce changes on the BoD so we always find out about them long after the fact.

My memory is that we first noticed Gil Bates as a member of the board of IBLP in late 2012/early 2013.  Prior to that he was apparently on the ATI BoD so he was advanced in the hierarchy.  He's been deeply involved for a long time.

Lawson in his famous instagram tried to minimize all that. per Lawson, Gil is a new board member and knew nothing about the allegations - yada, yada.   http://www.inquisitr.com/2815408/as-sexual-abuse-allegations-roll-in-reality-stars-shun-bill-gothard-duggars-silent/

However, Lawson's story is not remotely plausible.  Recovering Grace was founded in 2011 and published many stories before the lawsuit was finally filed.  Bates was definitely on the BoD when they hired David Gill, Jr. in late 2013 to conduct a fake investigation (allegedly) into the RG's accusations about Gothard.  That is why he is named personally in the lawsuit.

Thanks! I never doubted that Gil knew exactly what was going on with Gothard for a second, just wasn't about the timeline. Now Lawson's comment makes me think though. Was he lying or being lied to?

 

 

[Palimpsest]

1 minute ago, TuringMachine said:

Now Lawson's comment makes me think though. Was he lying or being lied to?

Lawson may have been unaware of the accusations but I sincerely doubt Gil could have been.  As to how long Gil has been on the board - apparently misrepresenting the truth isn't actually lying when these good Christian folk are trying to distance themselves from Gothard.

Remember, Gothard was also the birthday boy at Erin's wedding (2013?) with his own special cake.  Kelly mysteriously renamed it as a grooms cake - although "Happy Birthday Mr. Gothard" is still clearly readable on it! 

They all lie like rugs.

[formergothardite]

I didn't realize Kelly renamed the cake a "grooms cake". She should have just removed the picture. 

I doubt Lawson knew all the abuse that was going on and probably, even if he goes and reads things like Recovering Grace, is not going to want to believe that his dad and all these people he respects did such awful things. It is eaiser to blame Gothard and claim the victims are bitter liars than to accept that his dad is a really bad person. 

He had to have known his father has been involved in IBLP for a lot longer than he claimed, though. They all find ways to justify lying, which is why I am suspicious of every word that comes out of their mouths. 

[THERetroGamerNY]

Wait, you mean Lawson Bates is not a reliable source of info on his horrible, cult-leader father?!

[JermajestyDuggar]

Oh we all remember that cake was Gothard's. They made his favorite. Barf.

[TuringMachine]

So I went and looked through some photos of Chad and Erin's wedding to see the Gothard cake again and I noticed that only one of Chad's brothers wasn't in his wedding party. Anyone know why that is?

[GoneDownTheRabbitHole]

It seems like the Bateses are starting to push Katie as one of the new "older girls"... with Erin, Michael(a), and Alyssa married off and Tori courting, I feel like they recognize that the girls are more popular with their fangirls than the boys (usually) and need to start making Carlin and Katie the new Alyssa and Erin. Calculated, but sad.

[Fundie Bunny]

23 minutes ago, GoneDownTheRabbitHole said:

It seems like the Bateses are starting to push Katie as one of the new "older girls"... with Erin, Michael(a), and Alyssa married off and Tori courting, I feel like they recognize that the girls are more popular with their fangirls than the boys (usually) and need to start making Carlin and Katie the new Alyssa and Erin. Calculated, but sad.

Maybe you mean Josie? Josie is quite likeable (coming from a person that would throat-puch everyone in that family) and she is 16 now. Gotta fing a decent fundie boy for her

[backyard sylph]

On 6/30/2016 at 1:00 PM, 19 cats and counting said:

We first meet the Bateses on a 17 Kids episode called "When Big Families Collide."  It's on YouTube in 3 parts.

I'm going to have a look at that. I'm just now watching these episodes that were on TV on Thursday. I do appreciate the fact that they're active people who seem to do...a variety of projects and so forth. And the one in Florida—Alyssa?—wore a sleeveless top. I approve of that. (But I guess it's okay with everyone because she sure can clean!) Gil...it's odd, he says ordinary middle-aged man things and then slips some random male-dominant statement into it.

[formergothardite]

40 minutes ago, backyard sylph said:

Gil...it's odd, he says ordinary middle-aged man things and then slips some random male-dominant statement into it.

It is because Gil has a harder time hiding his dark side. They are trying very hard to portray themselves as not like the Duggars, but occasionally they let slip up. 

[backyard sylph]

Ahh, I see what you mean.

But already I find them more interesting simply because they seem like active capable people in certain ways, though I understand it comes with sharp limitations. Apocalypse comes, there's no taking up in the air after all? The Bates seem like they'd built huts and have a party in them, and the Duggars would maybe have to eat each other.

[JermajestyDuggar]

42 minutes ago, backyard sylph said:

Ahh, I see what you mean.

But already I find them more interesting simply because they seem like active capable people in certain ways, though I understand it comes with sharp limitations. Apocalypse comes, there's no taking up in the air after all? The Bates seem like they'd built huts and have a party in them, and the Duggars would maybe have to eat each other.

That's an interesting thought. Which family would survive an apocolypse? Obviously it would all rest on the shoulders of their children. Since none of the parents seem to want to do the work. Jana and JD could keep the Duggars afloat for awhile I suppose. The Bates lost some of their best sister moms so they might have a hard time. But Nathan and Trace seem like they might do well. And if Chad made it to their house then all bets are off. He would start an entire new colony within a week after the apocolypse.

[Exjw2015deed]

43 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

It is because Gil has a harder time hiding his dark side. They are trying very hard to portray themselves as not like the Duggars, but occasionally they let slip up. 

Yes for sure. I remember when Michael was trying on her wedding dress, she said "wait one second she's finding a jacket for this one."

Carlin got excited, and was like "omg that is the one that is one."

Everyone started looking and Gil kept saying.

"No, that needs a jacket, that needs a jacket."

This felt like body shaming to me for some reason and got me really really angry. Not only was she 25 years old, but clearly she stated she needed a jacket first. Him repeating it irked the shit out of me, like it was a threat almost. Michael probably dresses the frumpiest out of all the older girls, and was always the most curvy. Clearly she lost weight a year before she started courting, and her stating she wants to have a dress that "makes her look thin" clearly shows she's a normal slightly insecure young woman (like myself). So Gil, belaboring the point that was already made seemed so unnecessary, for a girl who already is body conscious. 

For me that was slip up of how he must be with the girls and their clothing choices, and a peak into his patriarchal condescending dueche-bagness.

Not to mention nathan's rude ass comments. He will be the most like Gil. I knew him and Ashley wouldn't work after he stated harsh comments to Michael.

[backyard sylph]

6 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

That's an interesting thought. Which family would survive an apocolypse? Obviously it would all rest on the shoulders of their children. Since none of the parents seem to want to do the work. Jana and JD could keep the Duggars afloat for awhile I suppose. The Bates lost some of their best sister moms so they might have a hard time. But Nathan and Trace seem like they might do well. And if Chad made it to their house then all bets are off. He would start an entire new colony within a week after the apocolypse.

Chad is my favorite spouse so far. He looks humored on the outside and like maybe there are actually interesting thoughts on the inside.

I like to think that post-Apocalypse, the younger set will bicker a lot, but whip things into shape without the delay they seem to witness in their older family members. I don't know all their names yet; I imagine the one I think is #18 fashioning weapons right off.

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, backyard sylph said:

Ahh, I see what you mean.

But already I find them more interesting simply because they seem like active capable people in certain ways, though I understand it comes with sharp limitations. Apocalypse comes, there's no taking up in the air after all? The Bates seem like they'd built huts and have a party in them, and the Duggars would maybe have to eat each other.

No way in hell Gil and Kelly would do shit in regards to real work. They would do what they have always done, exploit their children, grift and find vulnerable people to prey on. Their kids would be the ones actually working.

I think the Duggars might be a bit more capable than many people think. John David seems to have a pretty good head on his shoulders and so does Jana. They might not be as outgoing and loud as the Bates, but I think they could survive. 

The Bates and Duggar children should abandon their lazy ass parents and go enjoy life. Taking the little ones with them, of course, because Jim Bob, Michelle, Gil, and Kelly don't need access to anymore children. As Still-Gay-Greg and Dede showed us, it is a heck of a lot harder to grift when you don't have children. All the kids would be fine, the Duggar and Bates parents would flounder and quickly die without their kids. 

[backyard sylph]

13 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

All the kids would be fine, the Duggar and Bates parents would flounder and quickly die without their kids. 

Mostly that's what I meant. It just appears to me that more of the Bates offspring have more abstract skills than some of the Duggars. In my favored scenario, they'd be put into a position to find out, which would make for rather more exciting TV...

[OrchidBlossom]

6 hours ago, backyard sylph said:

Mostly that's what I meant. It just appears to me that more of the Bates offspring have more abstract skills than some of the Duggars. In my favored scenario, they'd be put into a position to find out, which would make for rather more exciting TV...

Ehhhhhh I think the Duggars have the detriment of a television network that portrayed them as a freakshow for a long time and the Bates have the benefit of a tv network that has gone out of their way to normalize them. 

I think that like any other family, some of the kids in both families are extremely competent and some... aren't. Jana is obviously very skilled and competent, JD seems to be as well. Similarly, Lawson started a successful lawn company at like 13 and probably has life skills from there, and Michael has always struck me as a very competent "manager" type of person. But Jessa appears near useless at first blush (apparently barely cooks or cleans, as an example) and Erin can play the piano (like it personally wronged her) but doesn't seem to have a lot of technical or survival type life skills (they've referenced her not being great in the kitchen, and Chad's general competence is often held in comparison to her). So I think they may be much more balanced than the shows would lead a person to believe.

[backyard sylph]

2 minutes ago, OrchidBlossom said:

So I think they may be much more balanced than the shows would lead a person to believe.

I expct that's so. The Duggars' social skills seem to have somewhat improved over the years, which is another area I was mulling over. Mainly I agree that if the parents and Josh were out of the way, they'd mostly all come through as needed, but at this moment it's fun for me to imagine it as another reality competition, though I don't watch those on TV, as a rule. You know, Armaggedon: Bates v. Duggars, the Final Showdown. I'd still sort of favor bologna steak over chickenetti, myself.

[AnnaRuk09]

1 hour ago, OrchidBlossom said:

Ehhhhhh I think the Duggars have the detriment of a television network that portrayed them as a freakshow for a long time and the Bates have the benefit of a tv network that has gone out of their way to normalize them. 

I think that like any other family, some of the kids in both families are extremely competent and some... aren't. Jana is obviously very skilled and competent, JD seems to be as well. Similarly, Lawson started a successful lawn company at like 13 and probably has life skills from there, and Michael has always struck me as a very competent "manager" type of person. But Jessa appears near useless at first blush (apparently barely cooks or cleans, as an example) and Erin can play the piano (like it personally wronged her) but doesn't seem to have a lot of technical or survival type life skills (they've referenced her not being great in the kitchen, and Chad's general competence is often held in comparison to her). So I think they may be much more balanced than the shows would lead a person to believe.

JD is probably the most competent in the family as he has done a variety of things and has learned from the family's close carpenter and mechanic friends. I think it's a little difficult to evaluate Jana since I haven't seen her do much in front of the camera, but may I missed something and you have. She was seen talking about putting up lights in the last season but she was shown tape measuring and on the sidelines. In sure she knows how to do some small tasks from watching her brothers but I can't picture her doing medium to big jobs on her own. Jessa's evaluation is pretty accurate. I've heard of a lot of people talking about how great Chad is and how handy he is. It's funny to hear the opposite. But doesn't he like craft stuff? What other stuff does he suck at?

[OrchidBlossom]

1 minute ago, AnnaRuk09 said:

JD is probably the most competent in the family as he has done a variety of things and has learned from the family's close carpenter and mechanic friends. I think it's a little difficult to evaluate Jana since I haven't seen her do much in front of the camera, but may I missed something and you have. She was seen talking about putting up lights in the last season but she was shown tape measuring and on the sidelines. In sure she knows how to do some small tasks from watching her brothers but I can't picture her doing medium to big jobs on her own. Jessa's evaluation is pretty accurate. I've heard of a lot of people talking about how great Chad is and how handy he is. It's funny to hear the opposite. But doesn't he like craft stuff? What other stuff does he suck at?

No sorry if I was confusing. I was saying that Chad is generally competent and good at crafting and fixing, and that this is generally discussed in comparison to Erin, which to me indicates that she may not be so good at those things.

As to Jana, before Counting On Tricking Viewers Into Thinking We Are Normal premiered, she was shown on 19KAC doing lots of crafty projects and JB did teach the children to do a lot of work as free labor an educational opportunity. I believe we previously discussed he once said she should have been born a boy because she was so good at manual labor type stuff.

[Exjw2015deed]

1 hour ago, OrchidBlossom said:

Ehhhhhh I think the Duggars have the detriment of a television network that portrayed them as a freakshow for a long time and the Bates have the benefit of a tv network that has gone out of their way to normalize them. 

I think that like any other family, some of the kids in both families are extremely competent and some... aren't. Jana is obviously very skilled and competent, JD seems to be as well. Similarly, Lawson started a successful lawn company at like 13 and probably has life skills from there, and Michael has always struck me as a very competent "manager" type of person. But Jessa appears near useless at first blush (apparently barely cooks or cleans, as an example) and Erin can play the piano (like it personally wronged her) but doesn't seem to have a lot of technical or survival type life skills (they've referenced her not being great in the kitchen, and Chad's general competence is often held in comparison to her). So I think they may be much more balanced than the shows would lead a person to believe.

They have same production company. I wrote a breakdown of it in an older post. The producers started taking them more seriously when viewership rose.

[OrchidBlossom]

1 hour ago, Exjw2015deed said:

They have same production company. I wrote a breakdown of it in an older post. The producers started taking them more seriously when viewership rose.

I'm sure that is the case (I don't doubt you) but my point remains the same. The Duggars were painted with a brush that minimized their competency at the outset of their television "career" and the Bates with a brush that enhanced their competency. I think a lot of that has colored the perception of the members of the families.