Candy explains Aspergers

[PsyD2013]

Well that is an hour of my life I'll never get back.  This was my first Candy experience.  Wow, there are a lot of holes in this video.  ASD is my area of expertise and  I work with children on the spectrum for a living.   First, Candy your amygdala, might be "different".  While it is true that structural differences in  amygdala have been observed on post-mortem studies in persons on the spectrum, the amygdala is not the area of the brain associated with empathy.  That would be the  the anterior insular cortex. 

 

[Texas Heifer]

Holy crap. I thought I'd seen the pinnacle of Fundie Crazy already, but then I stumbled upon this thread, then older threads, then the Wayback Machine provided quite the rabbit hole, and I fear I will never resurface. My headship is an Atheist Aspie, and he positively hooted at the idea that he is any deity's favored child. Bah ha ha.

I cannot believe she claims her poop literally doesn't stink. It's just too good.

*plunges over precipice*

[feministxtian]

Ok...I see a whole lot of this self-diagnosis thing for being on the spectrum and it pisses me off. I got diagnosed in adulthood after my youngest child was diagnosed with ASD and ADHD. The doctor (psychiatrist) who diagnosed my son was a firm believer in a genetic component...my X is on the spectrum and the doctor offered to do the diagnostics on me...and well...yup! 

Candy is using an ASD to justify her own idiocy...I know what it's like to feel "abnormal", to feel like you're an observer watching a play called life, to not understand how relationships/friendships work. Its only as I've gotten older (I was diagnosed in my early 30's), 20 years after being diagnosed that I'm finally comfortable in my own skin and in my own skull. Having an ASD is not something someone brags about...it's only been in the last couple of years that I could admit to my own psychological/neurological weirdness. I've finally found a community where I am 100% accepted just as I am...and can let my freak flag fly. 

[SoGladIWasCofE]

Well, since I've finally finished my exams, I now have time to sit down with the recommended alcohol and watch more of this trainwreck than the first five minutes.

I'm actually kind of excited because two of my areas of special interest are overlapping! Batshit fundamentalists and autism!

I have so many questions. How wrong is she about autism? Is she even autistic? WTF is with the aspie supremacism? Why does she think she's autistic? Why on earth does she think "getting saved" will help me?

Do I want to go through critically evaluate everything she's saying with references to the relevant studies? (who am I kidding, I managed to re-frame nearly half of my exam questions to be about autism this year, of course I do)

[PsyD2013]

@SoGladIWasCofE- I want to go through the video too and carefully analyze her arguments, too! I've done research and on high functioning ASD adults at the university  level.  I should be editing a journal article, but this is more fun.  Candy says that persons on the spectrum have bigger frontal lobes, hence persons on the spectrum are more developed.  Not entirely true.  There is a lack of pruning of neurons in persons on the spectrum.  So many individuals on the spectrum have difficulty with executive functioning (frontal lobe).   

[anachronistic]

I'm autistic. I haven't watched the video. I just want to reiterate that being on the spectrum and being a batshit bananas arsehole are two entirely different things. Also, I know lots of people on the spectrum and they fall into 2 categories. Either really religious or atheists. No gray zones. I'm an atheist, and I learned long ago to never ever ever argue with a religious autistic because they will never give up and are often genuinely very concerned for your soul the way I am concerned for your health if you smoke, 

[MsSaylor]

This is pretty fascinating stuff. I've been reading here for about 7 years and never clicked on any Candy threads. May have to go down the rabbit hole! Sounds like this particular hole is deep and wide. 

I clicked on this one bc I, like many commenting here have an interest in ASDs. I also started self examining after my son was diagnosed and would say that I'm borderline. I definitely have some traits but probably not diagnosable. So this is a very interesting topic, self diagnosing, adult women on the spectrum etc. all brought to us by this wackadoodle. Loving it!

[lawfulevil]

4 hours ago, anachronistic said:

I'm autistic. I haven't watched the video. I just want to reiterate that being on the spectrum and being a batshit bananas arsehole are two entirely different things. Also, I know lots of people on the spectrum and they fall into 2 categories. Either really religious or atheists. No gray zones. I'm an atheist, and I learned long ago to never ever ever argue with a religious autistic because they will never give up and are often genuinely very concerned for your soul the way I am concerned for your health if you smoke, 

Oh god this. So much this. My uncle and sister are super religious (I think my uncle qualifies as fundie). My brother is a fedora-wearing Internet Atheist. And the rest of my family (mostly somewhere on the spectrum as well) all break down the same way. My mother and uncle are conspiracy nuts too (chemtrails, Obama can control the weather and is causing the droughts, that sort of thing).

I'll give my little sister this- she ACTS like she thinks the Bible is literally true, instead of just saying it is and using it to justify whatever she wants.

ETA: But I try to never ever ever bring up religion with my relatives EVER.

[feministxtian]

In my experience (warning: anecdotal evidence only)...ASD adults tend to have other issues along with the ASD...depression, anxiety, self-medication, addictions...because trying to fit in NT society is so hard for us. We tend to gravitate to careers that don't involve dealing much with other people...many of us "high-functioning" types are also pretty intelligent and creative. We live inside our skulls more than out in the "real world". For me, being out in the NT world is exhausting. I'm constantly checking my behavior...am I stimming? am I obsessively talking about something? Am I talking too much? Am I making sense to other people? I spent years standing on the sidelines, wearing monochromatic clothes, ducking picture taking, kind of trying to keep the walls up so I wasn't "outed". 

Again...I am speaking from my OWN experience only!

Candy is none of the above...she's latched onto the current ASD "craze" to justify her own mental illness. She is far too show-off-ish to truly be ASD. 

[Texas Heifer]

My husband feels sorry for her--noteworthy, as he has no use for religion and little tolerance for religious people--since he says she is so obviously crazy. I think the Rock-Throwing Sasquatch situation cemented it for him. I haven't gotten a chance to tell him about what a liar she is. He has trouble with empathy, but something about this woman seems to have touched him. He says he doesn't find her snarkable because she's so obviously off her rocker. I have never seen this side of him; it's remarkable. He cannot stand his religious, unmedicated paranoid schizophrenic cousin, and is usually pretty intolerant of lying and/or manipulation. I'm interested to see if his opinion changes once I inform him she's a liar, or if I am married to Crazy Candy's White Knight. Gah

[Diana]

I didnt know this woman before, but if all you say about her here is true she is obviously mentally ill...if thats the case i dont think its ok to snark on her.

And what about the husband? he has to know his wife is not ok, does he ever mention something about it?

[fundiefan]

27 minutes ago, Diana said:

I didnt know this woman before, but if all you say about her here is true she is obviously mentally ill...if thats the case i dont think its ok to snark on her.

And what about the husband? he has to know his wife is not ok, does he ever mention something about it?

He's just as insane. The feed off each other in dangerous ways. 

[SoGladIWasCofE]

Ok, so essay post on candy and autism! If you want some of my obsessive knowldege of the autism literature and community, read on! If not, skip this post, seriously, long, long rambling by autistic with a special interest in autism and fundamentalism, and half way through a psychology degree. I'll try to keep jargon to a minimum, but er, I've just been writing academic essays, so tell me if I end up using words people don't know.

Candy and aspergers/autism distinction

She's right that aspergers is now considered autism in the DSM. As of the DSM V (most recent version) all the ASD 'subtypes' like aspergers, PDD-NOS, classic autism etc. are now just Autism Spectrum Disorder. This was done because the distinctions between the categories were pretty meaningless, terrible at predicting developmental trajectories, and you could send the same person to three different psychs and get three different 'autism' diagnoses. The language distinction was the difference between the autism/aspergers diagnosis, and honestly that's about as necessary a distinction as 'autistic people who are bad at maths' and 'autistic people who are good at maths'. It didn't predict outcomes at all, like a kid like me who spoke a few months early could be totally identical to a kid who said their first word at 7 by age 10. There are loads and loads of skill atypicalities in autistic people, dividing us into categories based on one of them is just silly. 

Mind you, the distinction is still there in the ICD-10, so if you're in the UK like me you can end up with both the DSM ASD diagnosis and the ICD aspergers diagnosis. IMO there probably are distinct subtypes and symptom expressions that cluster, but the old distinctions came nowhere close to capturing that. 

Anyway, this was decided by a panel of professionals, but of course CANDY KNOWS BETTER! The language distinction is totally relevant you guys. It's not that she doesn't want to be associated with 'those autistics' who can't live alone, it's totally an important distinction because CANDY SAYS SO. And the fact that lots of the people with an aspergers diagnosis can't live alone is irrelevant of course.

There's a movement, especially in the UK, to switch to 'condition' rather than disorder, but her 'I do not have a disorder' is umm... well, it's classic aspie supremacism is what it is.

 

Candy and getting saved

Ok what the fuck??? How??? Ok, I suppose this is the nutty fundamentalism talking, but hi, successful autistic atheist here. Why on earth does she think her brand of born again protestantism will help people be successful more than islam, catholicism etc? Oh, wait, all other religions are false. Ok. Fuck you. 

I will say that lots of autistic women are very spiritual, and the accepting that it's part of gods plan thing can be really helpful in getting to the 'this is how I am, it is a neutral thing' point of acceptance. And that religious communities can be really good for some people. But really, the fuck?

Her husband's nonsense about emotions getting in the way of hearing god really pisses me off. Unemotional traits are not actually more common that lack of emotional regulation in autistic people. Most of the prophets were aspies? I don't even know where to start with this. Historical diagnosis is iffy as hell anyway, there are very few cases where it seems at all warranted. Like, Henry Cavendish is a common one, and TBH he could honestly just have been really introverted. Charles Darwin is the only person I personally fell comfortable post-mortem diagnosing, and this is because he's relatively recent, there's lots of data on him and his writings, and other people's opinions of him, AND he took notes of his children's development which are sufficient to diagnose one of his daughters. He then noted that her hand flapping was something he did as a child. Dude obsessively took notes on everything. Score one for atheists! Anyway, no, you can't just assert that someone over 2000 years dead was autistic. FFS.

Non autistic people can make people mad too, what the hell? I could give you a whole load of modern examples of people being killed for taking unpopular stances or being preachy at people without being autistic at all. Pissing people off is not an ability unique to us. 

 

Candy and motor control

She's actually right about this. Handwriting issues are pretty much universal in autistic people, specifically because of fine motor control issues. My handwriting is fine due to a) years and years of effort, including switching to print, b ) writing huge and c) writing from my elbow. Which give me shooting pains up and down my arm after 10-20 minutes. I get a computer to do my exams on because of this. 

Atypicalities in fine and gross motor control are very common, people can end up with better or worse ability that usual in specific areas. This can range from stuff like clumsiness and bad handwriting to difficulties with speech and buttons. 

The stuff about exercise reducing anxiety is nothing to do with autism. That's normal.

Candy and sensory issues

Her stuff on this is actually pretty accurate, and what she's describing is pretty typical. Even her husband pontificating on how what autism is is sensory issues isn't totally wrong. They're now part of the diagnostic criteria, and they may be behind a lot of the other issues.

 

Candy and her husband fuck up neuroscience

Oh god. Welp. Lets go through this point by point.

 

"autistic brains have more electrical connections"

It's way more complicated than that. Most of the research is limited by tiny sample sizes (usually less than 20) because these studies are really, really expensive. So there are some really mixed results, and the heterogeneity of autism can result in a study getting significant results for something that's only true for a minority of autistic people, just by virtue of small sample sizes.

Generally, I think the tendency is towards higher local connectivity and lower long-range connectivity, especially in the frontal lobe. But I haven't done a particularly systematic literature review on this, so I could be wrong. Anyway, the only thing I would be comfortable making an assertion about is 'abnormailities in connectivity are present, both locally and inter-regionally.' Anything beyond that is probably overstating the evidence.

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/24/42/9228.short A good review of abnormal connectivity in autism

http://dept.wofford.edu/neuroscience/NeuroSeminar/pdfSpring2008/FrontalLobe-Connect225.pdf Greater local connectivity, decreased to other regions, specifically in the frontal cortex.

http://www.mrc-cbu.cam.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Wass-2011-BC.pdf Nice review of recent research

http://www.cell.com/cell-reports/abstract/S2211-1247(13)00572-X?_returnURL=http%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS221112471300572X%3Fshowall%3Dtrue Overconnectivity in posterior brain.

 

"connections are formed in order to deal with sensory overload"

Maybe. There's research suggesting they're linked, but no causational research yet. The intense world theory is basically this view, but it's honestly just as likely that the sensory overload is a result of the neurological differences.

 

"Having to deal with sensory overload grows the brain"

Huh. So, the general pattern of autistic brain growth is much faster at birth and post-natally, but then much slower than usual. Autistic brains are typically sized by adulthood. Slightly large heads are common in childhood, but by adulthood most brains are normal sized, as are heads. So if it is causing brain growth, it's in the first year (plausible) but autistics don't have bigger brains as adults, so I don't think it does what he thinks it does.

 

"using the brain grows more dendrites"

Yeeesss... But using the brain is something everyone does. If your brain is actually not in use, it's because you're dead. Sensory input can affect the development of dendrites, but I can't find any research showing more dendrites in autistic people, so at best this is total speculation.

 

"25% bigger brain"

No. No. Literally only in babies and toddlers. Do you have any idea what a 25% bigger brain would look like in an adult? I'm sorry Candy, but your head is obviously a totally normal size. (not going to bother citing all the studies on this, they're mostly by Courchesne if you want to look them up) 

 

"animal parts of the brain are less active"

uhhh... no. Also, the brain stem is, among other things, the bit that keeps your heart and lungs working. The stuff the brain stem does is more to do with motor control, the nervous system etc. The social processing stuff is, as far as we know, mostly in other parts.

 

"autistic people grow more frontal lobe"

No. It's more likely the issues are with sensory integration anyway. We do have abnormalities in the frontal lobe, but there isn't a consistent picture of structural difference in autism. I read a really good study in the last year or so (which for the life of me I cannot find) showing that there really, really isn't a consistent pattern. Autistic people are, way, way more heterogeneous in terms of brain structure that typically developing people.

 

"Usually have high IQ test scores"

ehhhhh.... It depends. Research on this is actually really tricky when you have people with severe communication or initiation difficulties. And it really depends what test you use. We get a really "spiky" profile with a full scale weschler, and higher scores than average on ravens. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4287210/

 

Ok, I actually can't take anymore of this tonight, so I'm just going to post this. With a few notes to respond to stuff further up the thread. The stuff above is up to the 20 min mark.

 

Is Candy autistic?

IMO? Yes. She strikes me as autistic in terms of her intonation and body language very strongly. Well researched (which she seems to be) self diagnosis can be accurate. Her information is pretty comprehensive, even if it's not always accurate, and her descriptions sound pretty typically autistic.

Getting a professional diagnosis can be really hard as an adult, especially as a woman and espeicially in the US, where it's expensive as hell. Just to give you an idea, my boyfriend was told that he couldn't be autistic because he has normal IQ and "these things are always picked up in childhood". Another friend of mine was told as a child that she had all the classic autistic traits but "girls don't get autism so it must be tourettes". 

I don't think making 'informative' videos without a pro diagnosis is always the best idea, but I'm pretty sure she's autistic. I can really, really see the appeal of the SAHM thing for an autistic person. She doesn't have to deal with people other than her family, and she doesn't have to fuss about with getting disability accommodations to get a sensory environment she can tolerate. And the fundamentalism gives her a nice rule set to follow, and she doesn't have to think critically.

She might be a liar about a load of other stuff, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

 

@Diana Autism isn't a mental illness in the usual sense, it's a neurodevelopmental disorder. People can be mentally ill as well, but it's more like down syndrome than it is like bi-polar disorder or anxiety in terms of categories.

Honestly? It's really kind of patronizing to say that we shouldn't be snarked on. She's an adult, she's made her own choices, and she has some seriously batshit beliefs. Seriously that "autistic people need to get saved to have a good life" nonsense deserves some serious snark.

Her husband knows, and by the look of the video he seems pretty supportive, which is IMO pretty good. Like, that's all you can do. Mind you, he does share her nutty fundamentalist views, so obviously he encourages her to think in that weird "my particular brand of protestant christianity is the only TRUE FAITH" way, so that's kind of awful. But her fundamentalism does seem to be mostly her own.

 

@feministxtian Er, SAHM sounds like exactly what you described. She's at home with the kids all day, she doesn't have to monitor her behaviour constantly or interact with other people.

Not all autistic people are introverts. I'm not. I'm actually quite happy with public speaking. I can prepare, so I don't have to do the finding words or speech processing stuff I find really tricky, and I know my body language, voice and intonation are weird, but that's fine. They're me, I'm not ashamed of them, why should it be a problem? I have a few NT understandable gestures/facial expressions I can put on to emphasise something or make a point, so it's honestly not an issue. Honestly just being out about being autistic makes it so much less stressful. 

 

 

[feministxtian]

@SoGladIWasCofE

I've never bothered to do a helluva lot of research into ASD...I base a lot off my own experience and my son's. My son is "odd"...extremely smart, but lacks the ability to stick to much of anything...he has a tested genius IQ and is a high-school drop out. 

Being a female, being "odd" and being over 50, my experience is probably on the crappy side. Academically, school was always a breeze, socially it was HORRID. I hadn't learned enough "pass for NT" behaviors to be able to deal with my small, snobby high school. I was a SAHM for many years...while dealing with MY ASD, my son's ASD and a very dysfunctional marriage that included domestic violence. As a result, I was an utter mess...it took YEARS of therapy, self-acceptance, recovery work and finding the right work/career situation for me to function relatively well in the NT world. It's still EXHAUSTING at times...but it's better than it was. 

[lawfulevil]

I made an exception (I usually dislike watching videos) and skimmed her channel. WOW does she ever love the sound of her own voice- I know extroverts and they don't do that. Make videos about their interests, sure. But just hours and hours of rambling for Jesus? I have no idea what to make of her. There traits that definitely seem "yes", but on the other hand, she's purposely isolated herself so much that it's hard to tell if they're from being on the spectrum or not. Maybe she's just a socially isolated narcissist.

[CelticGoddess]

I tried, I really really tried.  She doesn't have a "disorder"?  what is so bloody shameful about that?  So, in the first minutes she has succeeded in pissing me off.  Goddess help me!

I am sorry but eff her!  My cousin, a pagan, has a son, also pagan, who is an aspie.  He is able to function just fine, you sanctimonious little....

Okay, I made it four minutes.  Can't do more, and now I have to go pray to my Goddess for strength and patience because I seriously want to go find her and shake her.  which is not cool. I admire anyone who made it beyond 4 minutes.  I just can't do it.  *now where did I put that lavender.   And whiskey.  Maybe with the whiskey I can watch it.  Yeah, no.

[cindyluvs24]

She looks like Reese Witherspoon's discombobulated older sister.

[Shoobydoo]

23 hours ago, SoGladIWasCofE said:

Just to give you an idea, my boyfriend was told that he couldn't be autistic because he has normal IQ and "these things are always picked up in childhood". Another friend of mine was told as a child that she had all the classic autistic traits but "girls don't get autism so it must be tourettes". 

That sounds a lot like the shit I got when trying to get an ADD diagnosis as an adult woman. The first clinic I went to, I basically had four or five different doctors tell me I couldn't possibly have ADD because I don't act like a hyperactive 7 year old white boy. At my new clinic, I voiced my concerns to my PCP, she immediately gave me a referral to their adult ADD diagnostic specialist, and hey presto, what do you know, I'm ADD as hell.  I hate doctors that don't listen to you. 

That said, self diagnosis can also be a problem, but the people who make problems with self diagnosis are usually assholes in other parts of their lives as well... It always boils down to the same sad facts that obnoxious people are everywhere, and they make life harder for the rest of us.

[SoGladIWasCofE]

19 hours ago, Shoobydoo said:

That sounds a lot like the shit I got when trying to get an ADD diagnosis as an adult woman. The first clinic I went to, I basically had four or five different doctors tell me I couldn't possibly have ADD because I don't act like a hyperactive 7 year old white boy. At my new clinic, I voiced my concerns to my PCP, she immediately gave me a referral to their adult ADD diagnostic specialist, and hey presto, what do you know, I'm ADD as hell.  I hate doctors that don't listen to you. 

That said, self diagnosis can also be a problem, but the people who make problems with self diagnosis are usually assholes in other parts of their lives as well... It always boils down to the same sad facts that obnoxious people are everywhere, and they make life harder for the rest of us.

Yep, well researched and with input from other people and the community you think you might be part of, it can be a really great tool, and a way for people to figure out the best way to live their life.

Done badly, it's obnoxious as hell. 

I do think the instinctive "lol, self-diagnosis = making it up for attention" attitude does a lot more harm that the people who actually are making it up. It's similar to the way that the constant search for disabled "fakers" does way, way more harm than actual fakers. The suspicion from random people that you might be one of the <1% of fakers is a much bigger problem.

In some ways I was really lucky, on my second try I managed to get a referral to an adult specialist service, so they were used to dealing with people who've spent 20 years learning to hide. I still had a 6 month wait though.

We actually had to put in an autistic adult specific law here in the UK just to make local NHS services have a pathway for adult diagnosis. Before that there were places in the country where there was literally no one qualified to diagnose adults, and you couldn't be referred out to a different trust.

[refugee]

1 hour ago, SoGladIWasCofE said:

We actually had to put in an autistic adult specific law here in the UK just to make local NHS services have a pathway for adult diagnosis. Before that there were places in the country where there was literally no one qualified to diagnose adults, and you couldn't be referred out to a different trust.

Slightly OT, but this just triggered a memory. On the news recently, there was a feature about how Microsoft is actively encouraging autistic folks. (My mind fuzzes when I try to recall the details. Recruiting? Special accommodation? I don't remember. I do remember that they interviewed one of the workers with autism, and he talked about some of his struggles, and what it was like to work at Microsoft.)

ETA: Found a couple links.

http://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2016/02/09/microsoft-hiring-program-opens-more-doors-to-people-with-autism/#sm.00001grro16oyoevtxuaeqwr16zru

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/diversity/inside-microsoft/cross-disability/hiring.aspx

 

[starfish]

Wasn't Candy special frenemies with one of my favorite fundies, Brandy?

[fundiefan]

16 hours ago, starfish said:

Wasn't Candy special frenemies with one of my favorite fundies, Brandy?

Depends on the day. Sometimes, yes. Other times, they each wrote passive-aggressive / scathing blog posts about each other.

[Georgiana]

Oh, y'all need some Candy history.

• Candy diagnosed herself with Asperger's after taking an online quiz.  That was the extent of her initial research.  While she may NOW be well read on the subject, this all came after the fact, which invalidates it's usage in her diagnosis.  She has also estimated herself to be a MENSA genius of far above average intelligence.  
• Candy also say she used to be an incredibly successful modelling prodigy.  This is at odds with her Asperger's self diagnosis as those on the Autism spectrum struggle with communication via body language and positioning...which is like 95% of print modelling.  
• Her husband Erick is a "genius inventor" who is "so smart" that the government is after him.  That's why he can't hold down a job, y'all.
• Candy used to be very normal in her communication.  If you dig up her earlier videos, she's perfectly typical and rather charismatic.
• Her odd communication/speech/issues relating to people are much more easily explained by her steadily more extreme isolation than by any un-diagnosed neuro atypicallity.  
• Candy is not THAT old (in her 30's?).  She was mainstream schooled until Sasquatch threw rocks at her.  I am skeptical that it would be so completely overlooked, because even if she did not receive a correct diagnosis, usually it is noted that something is up.  

[ILoveJellybeans]

I am younger than Candy and I went to a mainstream school, and through college, and I was still diagnosed in my twenties. But unlike Candy, although I did initially self diagnose, I raised these concerns with the doctor, was referred to a psychologist, and got an actual diagnosis (but I am British, she is American, things are different over there-if I was American, I would save my money for being actively dying). Nobody suspected a thing other than me being weird and anti social. It helped that I went to the kind of school where the teachers were too busy trying to help the kids who got bad grades while stopping the badly behaved kids from disrupting the lesson-someone quiet with good grades got overlooked.

 

The sasquatch throwing rocks at her is not a sign of having Aspergers, but it is a sign that a trip to the psychologist may be needed.

[docmom]

Candy, definitely the most batshit crazy fundie I've come across.  Just reread her "hollow earth" post and, I have to say she does us all a great service.  Any time you start thinking that these people may actually be fairly normal, read Candy and your worldview will reset itself.