Micro Chips and Mark of the Beast

[iweartanktops]

This discussion is open to anyone, but I'm particularly interested in what Christians on FJ have to say on the subject. 

I was raised Christian. I am not sure what I believe right now, but FJ has really helped me explore. 

I was taught that during the "end times" certain things would happen. One sign of "the end times" would be that one day everyone would be required have The Mark of The Beast (or something like that), and that Christians had to refuse, lest they/we burn in hell, or aren't included in the rapture. I know people have their pets micro chipped, which I think, is a great idea. I've seen some articles about the future of micro chips in children, and "DON'T DO IT!11!! It's of the devil, etc." 

Here's an article with many Facebook comments about The Mark of the Beast: http://www.oregonlive.com/kiddo/index.ssf/2016/05/microchipping_your_children_co.html

What are your thoughts and beliefs on this? 

 

[Maggie Mae]

I don't want to be microchipped or tagged with a GPS for various reasons, but I would LOVE it if I could get a chip or barcode that is attached to my finances. So when I walk into a store to buy lunch, I don't have to deal with stupid credit/debit cards and purses and all that bullshit. I rarely carry a purse, but I need it to put my wallet in because women's clothes don't have pockets. So if I could just hurry up and get this mark of the beast that we supposedly need to "buy and sell" I would be pretty happy. 

It would be so much easier. Go into to store, pick up products, walk to checkout, have them scan your arm or whatever, and you go about your day. No more waiting for some idiot in front of you to write a check. (Also, check writers? You can fill out everything while you are waiting. Don't wait for them to run your 200+ items and then dig through your purse looking for your checkbook.) 

[iweartanktops]

6 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

I don't want to be microchipped or tagged with a GPS for various reasons, but I would LOVE it if I could get a chip or barcode that is attached to my finances. <snip>

It would be so much easier. Go into to store, pick up products, walk to checkout, have them scan your arm or whatever, and you go about your day. No more waiting for some idiot in front of you to write a check. (Also, check writers? You can fill out everything while you are waiting. Don't wait for them to run your 200+ items and then dig through your purse looking for your checkbook.) 

I agree with you about getting chipped. I have many reasons why I'd prefer not to. 

The check part 

I really want to hear from some practicing Christians about this from a religious standpoint. Calling @Gimme a Free RV,and others! 

[PennySycamore]

I do sometimes write checks but I do try to make them out to some extent at home.  For instance, most ATMs aren't made for short people in little cars so I go to the drive-in window to get cash with a already written check.  I do think that writing checks is probably better for money management.  I admit I'm weird but I like writing checks.  I do know it annoys people though so I don't do it that often.

Back your regularly scheduled programming .....

[EmiGirl]

As a believer, I believe that whatever the mark is has to be something more than just a chip or barcode. The reasoning is that once a person is marked there is no more hope for salvation. Period. However, we know from Scriptures that any person can become a child of God. Therefore it must be assumed that whatever this "Mark"  is has to alter a human from the genetic level so that they are not fully human anymore. I don't know how this could be done in an adult human being.. but it would have to be because the Bible is clear that it has to be a personal choice. No one knows the particulars of how this will actually play out. This is just one theory of how it could happen. Truth is, no one knows for sure.

There actually is a movement now that really creeps me out called transhumanism. There are actually scientists out there trying to figure out how to alter our DNA  to make us genetically superior.  

[docmom]

8 minutes ago, EmiGirl said:

There actually is a movement now that really creeps me out called transhumanism. There are actually scientists out there trying to figure out how to alter our DNA  to make us genetically superior.  

Really?  Who?  What group?  Scientists are certainly working on reversing certain genetic diseases but we are nowhere near engineering a "superior" human being.

[molecule]

There is a lot of difference among Christians about Revelation and end-times theology. Some believe that Revelation refers to events that already took place and others view it as a literal prediction of things to come. Most of us look at it as largely symbolic. A lot of Christians' views on it were shaped largely by the Left Behind series, which provided just one theological perspective.

I haven't read Revelation for a while and can't remember the specifics about the mark of the beast. I just looked in my husband's study bible, and it said that the purpose of the mark is to identify allegiance with satan--so refusing the mark is necessary to show allegiance to God. I don't see that in the scripture, although it may be covered somewhere other than the specific verse where I'm looking. I'm not sure what I think. The bible says that none of us is beyond redemption other than through an outright rejection of the holy spirit. I find it hard to wrap my mind around the idea that a chip or mark even a mechanization of my body would put me past redemption.

It's one of those theological matters I haven't wrestled with much yet. I've been more concerned with how to live out my faith on a daily basis and learn to stop worrying about the future. 

[December]

2 hours ago, molecule said:

so refusing the mark is necessary to show allegiance to God.

A few years ago when variations of this rumor were circulating I remember people saying they wouldn't let their kids get the (non-existent) RFID chip because of this reason. 

Also, not a practicing Christian at present, but my $0.02 is that there are a lot of different ways microchipping  and other tracking stuff could be implemented now or with future technologies. I'd have to see the specific details of the devices and their use cases before I made up my mind. (Edit: about microchipping in general, I can't really have an opinion on the mark of the beast stuff as it's not a belief I hold)

[molecule]

9 minutes ago, December said:

 

Also, not a practicing Christian at present, but my $0.02 is that there are a lot of different ways microchipping  and other tracking stuff could be implemented now or with future technologies. I'd have to see the specific details of the devices and their use cases before I made up my mind. 

Exactly. There is too much variability--and I think it's probably more a matter of the heart than an actual mark. 

[formergothardite]

It has been some time since I read the book of Revelation, but I remember being quite surprised when I discovered that the view I had been taught about that book was not one even held by people like Charles Spurgeon.

I wonder what John would think about people thousands of years later, and without totally understanding the culture and events in which he was writing, trying to translate and understand his letters. I'm sure that at the time he wrote it, it probably made a heck of a lot more sense and the readers weren't all confused about what he was talking about. 

 

[Evangeline]

I'm Christian and have studied Revelation. I have no idea what the Mark of the Beast is going to be. I'm confident that it won't be something that happens by accident or that people will be tricked into. God says he is not the author of confusion and I must take him at his word. I don't think microchipping as we know it today has anything to do with it. I can't imagine the God I believe in refusing entry to heaven because a person has a computer chip in their arm. That just makes no sense. I agree with whoever said it will be an indication that a person has rejected God. And of course my answer is assuming the events in Revelation are literal, which I am just not sure about.

[CyborgKin]

One thing I'm pretty sure about Revelation is that Left Behind seriously misses the mark.  Pardon the pun.

Anyhow, Revelation aside, I'm not keen on having chips put inside me.  Having a smartphone and smartwatch is plenty convenient.  Putting something like that permamently inside though... well that's both a privacy violation and not upgradeable

[EyeQueue]

6 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

don't want to be microchipped or tagged with a GPS for various reasons, but I would LOVE it if I could get a chip or barcode that is attached to my finances. So when I walk into a store to buy lunch, I don't have to deal with stupid credit/debit cards and purses and all that bullshit.

Like this, right?

Spoiler

 

I remember this commercial being out like 6 or 7 years ago and thinking, "Wow. This is almost happening!" And it still hasn't happened yet.

I'm not religious, so I don't think being chipped has anything to do with going to Hell. I've heard this all my life, though, from relatives and even my parents who bought into this pretty heavily for awhile in the late 70s/early 80s (but who weren't "fundies").

Being chipped would be hella convenient. You could be scanned for your medical record, ID, finances, etc., so that appeals to the part of me that still has the mindset of what 90s cyberpunk sci-fi promised the future would look like.

ETA: I just realized the actor in that commercial is Richard Speight, Jr., who plays Loki/The Trickster/Gabriel in "Supernatural"

The more practical part of me doesn't want to be chipped and tracked, because there are unintended consequences that could come out of that.

Transhumanism doesn't freak me out (again, because 80s cyberpunk fan, LOL!). Transhumanism can be as simple as having artificial limbs (at one end of the spectrum) to potentially having genes for animal senses or having things like cameras installed in your eyes (to the other, more extreme, end of the spectrum).

[EmiGirl]

I realize that we as a society are many many years away from having the technology. And like I said. I honestly don't know. I just know that microchipping isn't the mark because one could easily dig it out or cut off a limb to get rid of it. It would have to be irreversible. 

[Gimme a Free RV]

I don't have a lot more to add to what's already been said.  Interestingly, though, I was actually thinking about this this morning, before I saw this thread today.

While Revelation is a mysterious and seemingly frightening and confusing book in the Bible, I also find that, for the Christian, it gives hope and a sneak peek at who wins in the end.  

[samira_catlover]

Pagan here, but do have a beloved friend who IDs as Christian.  He also has three kids on the autism spectrum---and when they were young, minimally verbal, and WAYYYYYY challenging to manage, he would have cheerfully and gladly had them microchipped, if the technology had been available. (Definition of terror: you have a "challenged" nonverbal kid who vanishes for a bit.)  

He and his wife were totes not concerned with the Mark of the Beast---they just wanted to keep the kids safe, and if it works with a pet who gets lost, hey, people are way more valuable.

[1CrazyMama]

4 minutes ago, samira_catlover said:

Pagan here, but do have a beloved friend who IDs as Christian.  He also has three kids on the autism spectrum---and when they were young, minimally verbal, and WAYYYYYY challenging to manage, he would have cheerfully and gladly had them microchipped, if the technology had been available. (Definition of terror: you have a "challenged" nonverbal kid who vanishes for a bit.)  

He and his wife were totes not concerned with the Mark of the Beast---they just wanted to keep the kids safe, and if it works with a pet who gets lost, hey, people are way more valuable.

Agreed! For a long time my special needs kiddo wore a tag with our name and number any time we were in a big crowd. It's a scary thing!

[THERetroGamerNY]

Well, I don't think Hell is in the bible, so you won't be going to it.

I'm fairly certain (as much as anybody can be in such matters) that "the Beast" was the Roman Emperor Nero. I mean, everything matches up with him... I guess that makes me a preterist?

As such, that part of this rather shroomy book is done.

Feel free to be chipped.

Or not, because it's kinda a privacy thing I have zero desire to venture into. O_o

[Geechee Girl]

The ex-MIL is way into this microchip/barcode thing. She also sends me videos about Jesus being an alien, and Beyonce asked for Satan to enter her body.

When I was SDA, the mark of the beast would be seen as the people who don't keep sabbath holy by way of working, buying, or selling. Raised SB, the mark was allegiance to the supreme ruler of the new world order. Another theory was the mark would be anyone like Cain. The world over would know their sins, and they become pariahs. 

[RosyDaisy]

The only thing that has a micro chip in my home is the feline headship. He refuses to wear a collar. So, his vet injected one while I fed him his favorite treats.

[IntrinsicallyDisordered]

3 hours ago, THERetroGamerNY said:

Well, I don't think Hell is in the bible, so you won't be going to it.

I'm fairly certain (as much as anybody can be in such matters) that "the Beast" was the Roman Emperor Nero. I mean, everything matches up with him... I guess that makes me a preterist?

As such, that part of this rather shroomy book is done.

Feel free to be chipped.

Or not, because it's kinda a privacy thing I have zero desire to venture into. O_o

This is what I was taught (Catholic).  John was writing about his time, for the people of his time, and the Beast was Nero.  The Rapture as portrayed/feared by some Protestants was a source of amusement for us, like an unintentionally funny disaster movie.  

As a kid my mother briefly talked about barcodes and had worries that we'd all be barcoded against our will any moment now, but it passed quickly.  

I like the idea of being chipped for financial/medical reasons in theory, but personally don't think I could do it.  I can't even pierce my ears and have had a pencil point embedded in my skin for decades that still bothers me every time I see it.  Ugh.  

I'd probably go for something that looked and felt more like a tattoo, than a chip under the skin.  More surface.  I'm prone to scrupulosity but I don't see this as a spiritual problem or sin.  I wouldn't be worshipping the chip or whatever or pledging allegiance to Satan to get one.

[Gimme a Free RV]

8 hours ago, THERetroGamerNY said:

Well, I don't think Hell is in the bible, so you won't be going to it.

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;--2 Peter 2:4 (KJV)

ForChristians, if there was no hell, from what would we need to be saved?  

 

[docmom]

If God is omniscient why would he need people to be marked or not?  He'd know who was saved and who wasn't.

[THERetroGamerNY]

The original Hebrew word Sheol translates to "the grave", not hell. Those angels were therefore cast "down into the grave".

Jesus just wanted peeps to chill, and be happy & friendly. He wanted them to love one another and all that nifty stuff. Salvation from ourselves mostly.

Ironically, fundies are this very type he wanted us to be delivered from. lol

Hell, just like the 'rapture' isn't in the bible at all.

[samira_catlover]

You know, if I could get microchipped for Basic Interesting Medical Thingies (like allergies, past interesting medical history, basic identity stuff, my being a very proud and happy organ donor---have at it, transplant teams!--there's folks who really NEED my spare parts!), I'd cheerfully do it.

Anybody who wants to read my records (HIPPA-protected or not) is likely to get wayyyyyyy bored---but if something awful happened, I'd totes adore any provider to know I'm allergic as hell to morphine, before coming at me with a needle.

*Seriously considering getting a tattoo across my chest that says "do not even ATTEMPT resuscitation!*