why evangelicals are drawn to MLM (article)

[Loveday]

13 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

Yes I have very old pieces of working Tupperware in harvest gold and burnt orange. Rubbermaid and the lije aren't nearly as good. You can buy online w/o a rep, same with  Avon.

 

I might have you beat in the antique Tupperware department. I've got several pieces found at thrift stores that I know were originally made in the early 1960s (they were in nearly unused condition when I bought them, though, so not all beat up or anything). And my mother still uses the white/clear-ish canisters she bought in the late 1950s when she got married. Vintage Tupperware is becoming extremely collectible. So far I've resisted buying more than a few pieces that I actually use. I'm already overwhelmed with vintage Pyrex, I have no room for anything else. 

[refugee]

1 hour ago, SilverBeach said:

Yes I have very old pieces of working Tupperware in harvest gold and burnt orange. Rubbermaid and the lije aren't nearly as good. You can buy online w/o a rep, same with  Avon.

 

What always impressed me about Tupperware was their unlimited guarantee. When my harvest gold, burnt orange and earth brown containers wore out (the flexible lids became brittle, and then cracked) all I had to do was find a representative, and they replaced them with equivalents if they didn't have the exact replacement parts in stock.

Of course, I sold or gave away just about all of my Tupperware after the little kids grew up (kids and Tupperware...).We transitioned to glass food storage, mainly because of immune system compromise and avoiding plastic - was desperate, at one point, and trying just about anything that alternative medicine suggested, since allopathic medicine simply threw increasing amounts of varied drugs at the problem.

Kid was finally diagnosed as a celiac. Going gluten-free made a lot of difference in quality of lifestyle. (Yeah, yeah, I know, they say "gluten free" is a big fad for most people, but for celiacs it really does make a huge difference.)

So here I am, with no more Tupperware. *sigh* Will always have a fond spot for it in my heart. Even though I have absolutely no plans to go to a Tupperware party, ever again...

[NeverAFundie]

Without going into too much detail, I have personal knowledge relating to a major law firm that did work for Amway and has been involved in one way or another in virtually every major business lawsuit against the company for the past 40+ years.  NOBODY should be impressed that a court and/or the government stated they are not a pyramid scheme.  Those statements/opinions are based entirely on an interpretation of the term "pyramid scheme" that has been very deliberately crafted to be incredibly narrow from a legal standpoint.  Amway as an organization is completely ridiculous, and the stuff that goes on at all levels is insane.  I will just leave you with this:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/procter-gamble-wins-satanic-civil-suit/

[THERetroGamerNY]

It still doesn't look anything like a pyramid scam to me... Just shitty business models. And capitalism...

No big deal. Not like it actually matters.

[teachergirl]

The women I know that sell It Works are complete Jesus freaks. Besides the products not working for me and being crazy expensive, the Jesus talk was very much like the prosperity gospel. God blesses their business, God ordains them, God wants them to "help" people get healthy..... The one woman seems to have made quite but of money from it and even quit her job however when you get to that level you are relying on your downline to make money for you. Not sure how Christian that is when you need people to recruit for you.

[MarblesMom]

12 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

I got into Creative Memories as a new mother. Looking back, I can see how heavily influenced by evangelicals it was. CM was a scrapbook supply company.

I just laughed OUT LOUD @Four is Enough!!  Many years ago, I arrived at a Reno hotel from LA on a business trip, and I noticed an unusual amount of large, middle aged  women with perms, wearing vests, in the lobby.  There were so many of them in these damn vests... I was perplexed.

While waiting in line to check in to the hotel, I asked a vest-wearer in front of me if this was a convention of sorts.... she said "OH yes! Creative Memories - scrapbooking!"  ... I was like WTH is scrapbooking and why do you have to wear a vest to do it?! (In my head, of course.)

Thanks for the memory!

[sophie10130]

8 hours ago, NeverAFundie said:

Without going into too much detail, I have personal knowledge relating to a major law firm that did work for Amway and has been involved in one way or another in virtually every major business lawsuit against the company for the past 40+ years.  NOBODY should be impressed that a court and/or the government stated they are not a pyramid scheme.  Those statements/opinions are based entirely on an interpretation of the term "pyramid scheme" that has been very deliberately crafted to be incredibly narrow from a legal standpoint.  Amway as an organization is completely ridiculous, and the stuff that goes on at all levels is insane.  I will just leave you with this:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/procter-gamble-wins-satanic-civil-suit/

Yeah, I think a true Pyramid Scheme has no product at all. Just buying shares of... nothing. Buying shares of a membership or something like that. So technically if you're buying something, it's not a pyramid scheme. doesn't mean it isn't shady as fuck and only the super high up people making any money and all that. it is interesting though, because i wonder how they get around it when you purchase your right to sell. maybe that's why they give you so much free product. super scammy.

[AuntK]

On 5/25/2016 at 0:17 PM, clueliss said:

Melaleuca is 'fancy' for Tea Tree Oil in doTerra speak.  

The name, "Melaleuca" makes me laugh. Melaleuca is an invasive exotic species of tree that takes over everything, so native species cannot flourish. My state, Florida, has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to eradicate it from the southern part of the state! It's considered a nuisance!!!

[louisa05]

7 hours ago, sophie10130 said:

Yeah, I think a true Pyramid Scheme has no product at all. Just buying shares of... nothing. Buying shares of a membership or something like that. So technically if you're buying something, it's not a pyramid scheme. doesn't mean it isn't shady as fuck and only the super high up people making any money and all that. it is interesting though, because i wonder how they get around it when you purchase your right to sell. maybe that's why they give you so much free product. super scammy.

Oh, they can have a product. It is just that selling the product doesn't actually matter. 

Google "Equinox International" for a good example. 

A friend of mine got heavily involved in that in the mid 90s and tried to recruit all of us. It was like she was in a cult. She could talk about nothing else. She spent thousands of dollars to be part of it, spent thousands on seminars and office space and what not and never made any money. And the products were complete crap in spite of the promise that they would do anything (cure cancer with a water filter, eliminate asthma with breath spray, etc...).

 

[luv2laugh]

MLMs are a CULT. I have so many friends from my church sucked in that I don't even go anymore. I have to unfollow everybody on Facebook because everyone is blabbering about Plexus!

[polecat]

On 5/24/2016 at 5:21 PM, 19 cats and counting said:

A few months old but interesting read

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2015/december/divine-rise-of-multilevel-marketing-christians-mlm.html?share=9iiOSaVXTxPRJmtGCmgmTCLHzfZzvx5w

 

It seems to have seeped out into the general public. I can't even open my Facebook without having half a dozen different MLM schemes oozing all over the place -- jewelry, wax melt thingies, oils, etc. I even know someone who quit a lucrative job as an alternative health care provider (in a legitimate industry, not woo stuff) to sell Advocare. It's like the whole damn world has lost its mind. 

[ScreamingIzzy]

I think the advent of social media was the spark that lit the current conflagration of MLMs. You don't have to go door-to-door or spend hours on the phone anymore. You can set up a website, mention on a FB post or tweet, and let the sales come to you! 

My secretary was WAY into the wax melts. I bought a lot from her, because early on: they were really good! But then the quality declined, she got out, and I stopped buying. 

My mom got really into Mannatech when I was a teen. Her boss sold it. Seems like an HR/boundary issue to me now (can be hard to say no when your boss asks you to buy product), but at the time it meant I had to eat a lot of "phytobears"--gummy bears that tasted like onion and kale, that were going to keep me from EVER getting sick, and would help me lose weight.

[Alicja]

My cousin's girlfriend works at an Amway factory.

She was threatened with termination because she reported a workplace injury to the proper authorities.

[sparkles]

Thankfully, I have under 25 Facebook friends, but I'm about to unfriend one them because of her never-ending Rodan + Fields posts. I've never expressed an ounce of interest, never responded to a single post but she keeps hounding me, and not through private message either. The last one was a bright, peppy message that said "You haven't asked me about Rodan + Fields yet!" and this time I figured I'd respond. "That's right, I haven't! I think that says something, don't you." I hope every single on of the R+F leghumpers saw it, which I'm sure they did since they're all over liking every R+F post. I really wish there was a way to block this stuff without blocking everything someone posts.

In my long life, I've been to two Tupperware parties (back in the day, they kind of had a monopoly on storage stuff but no more), one Mary Kay party where they volunteered me for the makeover (disgusting stuff that I couldn't scrape off my face fast enough) and one Pampered Chef party (not impressed). I've never felt the urge to get involved with any MLM scheme and I've pretty much put the kibosh on anyone who try to sell me. I do buy essential oils, for the fragrance only, but I buy direct from Eden's Garden and run from YL and DoTerra.

No matter how people try to spin it, these things are nothing but a pyramid scheme and only the top people are ever even moderately successful at it.

[louisa05]

8 minutes ago, sparkles said:

Thankfully, I have under 25 Facebook friends, but I'm about to unfriend one them because of her never-ending Rodan + Fields posts. I've never expressed an ounce of interest, never responded to a single post but she keeps hounding me, and not through private message either. The last one was a bright, peppy message that said "You haven't asked me about Rodan + Fields yet!" and this time I figured I'd respond. "That's right, I haven't! I think that says something, don't you." I hope every single on of the R+F leghumpers saw it, which I'm sure they did since they're all over liking every R+F post. I really wish there was a way to block this stuff without blocking everything someone posts.

In my long life, I've been to two Tupperware parties (back in the day, they kind of had a monopoly on storage stuff but no more), one Mary Kay party where they volunteered me for the makeover (disgusting stuff that I couldn't scrape off my face fast enough) and one Pampered Chef party (not impressed). I've never felt the urge to get involved with any MLM scheme and I've pretty much put the kibosh on anyone who try to sell me. I do buy essential oils, for the fragrance only, but I buy direct from Eden's Garden and run from YL and DoTerra.

No matter how people try to spin it, these things are nothing but a pyramid scheme and only the top people are ever even moderately successful at it.

My cousin just got into Rodan & Fields. So far, she is not bothering me. 

 

[bea]

Plexus has invaded the "parents of diabetic kids" groups I belong to on FB and getting 1500 people who haven't slept through the night in YEARS pissed off at you is bad news. Currently, one of the 1,000+ groups I'm in has a form email to report Plexus reps to the FDA. Sorry, we're busy keeping our kids alive, don't tell us your bullshit MLM vitamin drink is going to cure their autoimmune disease.

[desertvixen]

I have a friend who does R+F but she doesn't push it overly much.  However, I also don't think she's a great ad because either her skin or her hair seems like it's making her look older. 

I did a Pampered Chef deal for a friend who was hosting one and got some nice stuff, but that's about it.

It does seem to be getting worse, though.

[19 cats and counting]

I never really had a problem with MLM until social media came along.  Pre SM, I've bought from friends who've sold Avon and Mary Kay.  I never went to church as an adult (besides weddings and funerals) and am not a part of a community.

But SM has made it 1000 times worse.  It is to the point where my FB is inactive because every other post was MLM.  It is one thing to create a business page for your MLM and post that stuff FROM THERE, not your personal page.  But I want to see an update of your life, political rants (yes I like them), pics of your feline headships, etc.  I don't want to host a party or buy your shit.  If I wanted some of your shit I'd come to you.  Don't add me to MLM groups, tag me in photos, and send me invites to virtual sales parties.  Leave me alone.

I prefer to keep business and social relationships separate, and MLM blurs those lines.

FB needs to crack down on this and start suspending accounts for MLM spam.

[Loveday]

Rodan and Fields are the ProActiv people, right? While I would never get involved in their MLM schemes,I have to say that their acne lotion does work. I bought some for my daughter around ten or eleven years ago, when she was 13, from someone at a mall kiosk. I paid cash for it and didn't give them my name or phone number so they never tried to contact me to join the cult. Cleared my daughter's mild acne right up, and she bought the next bottle with her own money. After that, she didn't have to buy it at all anymore, she'd outgrown the worst of it.

Of course, I'm sure there are cheaper products on drugstore shelves, so maybe we paid more than we should have, but it was worth it at the time. I didn't want her to end up with skin like mine (I had really bad acne as a teen). If the ProActiv hadn't worked, next stop would have  been a dermatologist.

[sparkles]

30 minutes ago, desertvixen said:

I have a friend who does R+F but she doesn't push it overly much.  However, I also don't think she's a great ad because either her skin or her hair seems like it's making her look older. 

My R+F friend is isn't the worst advertisement for the products but no matter how good she looks (and I think her genetics play a large part in that), she's pushing 60 and what doesn't show up on her face travels down to her neck, which any turkey would be proud of. So one negates the other. In general, their before and after pix follow the standard routine. Take the before in the harshest possible light, at the worst possible angle, with a face that's freshly scrubbed with cold water and take the after in flattering light, with a fully made up face and professionally coiffed hair. And we'll never notice, right?

They may be good products (and I've heard positive things about Proactive) but the relentless hard sell is so off-putting, I wouldn't buy for that reason alone, even if I had an interest in that kind of thing. Thankfully, because I have so few Facebook friends, I don't see a lot of MLM in my feed. I'm a reluctant Facebooker anyway (I'm only on there because that's where my baking groups meet) but if I started seeing more of it, I'd seriously have to consider deleting my account.

[refugee]

25 minutes ago, 19 cats and counting said:

Don't add me to MLM groups

This.

Someone I don't even know (a friend of a friend? Not sure how FB works) added me to a YL EO group. I left the group, and got added to another. I also keep getting invitations to online parties and workshops. I find it darkly amusing that at least one of these EO sellers keeps scheduling parties/workshops and then canceling them, maybe for lack of attendance?

[sophie10130]

For whatever reason when I was younger I LOVED to watch infomercials and QVC and HSN. I don't have cable, so I haven't watched any of it in a long time, but they were all really fascinating to me. Especially the jewelry and kitchen stuff. I have never in my life bought anything from TV. I just liked listening to people talk about products, I guess. 

So a friend of my aunt wanted to have a Pampered Chef party at her house for practice, and she said yes and my mom asked if I wanted to go because she knew I would love to hear about all the product details and watch them use all the products. It was fun for me. My mom bought a pizza stone. And we ate a lot of food.

[refugee]

11 minutes ago, sophie10130 said:

For whatever reason when I was younger I LOVED to watch infomercials and QVC and HSN. I don't have cable, so I haven't watched any of it in a long time, but they were all really fascinating to me. Especially the jewelry and kitchen stuff. I have never in my life bought anything from TV. I just liked listening to people talk about products, I guess. 

So a friend of my aunt wanted to have a Pampered Chef party at her house for practice, and she said yes and my mom asked if I wanted to go because she knew I would love to hear about all the product details and watch them use all the products. It was fun for me. My mom bought a pizza stone. And we ate a lot of food.

I have to admit, one of the things I loved about Pampered Chef parties was when they'd make that sugar cookie - cream cheese - fresh fruit pizza. It was always so pretty, and delicious.

[desertvixen]

33 minutes ago, sparkles said:

My R+F friend is isn't the worst advertisement for the products but no matter how good she looks (and I think her genetics play a large part in that), she's pushing 60 and what doesn't show up on her face travels down to her neck, which any turkey would be proud of. So one negates the other. In general, their before and after pix follow the standard routine. Take the before in the harshest possible light, at the worst possible angle, with a face that's freshly scrubbed with cold water and take the after in flattering light, with a fully made up face and professionally coiffed hair. And we'll never notice, right?

I think mine has sun damage to her skin, which is one of the reasons she pushes it so much.  I'm not Miss Perfect Skin over here by any means, but except for my faint crows' feet (because I smile and laugh a lot), mine looks pretty good.  I do have a big "stork bite" and freckles, but I like them.  I mean, I use a Neutrogena daily moisturizer with SPF 30 on regular days and heavier stuff if it's sunny, but definitely not paying R+F prices.  To me (continuing my total bitchy streak), I think the hair is worse - she would really benefit from a cut and treatment.  She doesn't "prep" her after photos as much, though, so I appreciate that bit of honesty.

@sophie10130, now it seems like they're doing online parties in FB groups for PC - at least, that was how this last one I "went to" was - there were videos and games and such, but not much participation.

[pamplemousse]

On 5/26/2016 at 9:16 PM, Jasmar said:

I love Melalecua products! I was a customer for 20-something years, but lost access in the divorce last year. I never did the business end of things, but my XH did a little bit for a time, so I went to a couple Of conventions. Very, very Mormon. My X-mil got us involved, but she is a truly crazy funny and quit because she didn't want to support a Mormon company.

btw, unless they've changed it, you cna buy directly from the company, without any agreement. It just costs more.

Aha. My cousin and his wife were really into Melaleuca as of several years ago. They're also Mormons. Now I'm not surprised they got into it. They tried to get me and my sister into it, but we didn't bite.  I'm not sure if they're still doing it.

When I was between jobs several years ago, I got recruited into Warm Spirit and Primerica. Warm Spirit ended up going out of business.  I actually sold a little of the product...my sister really liked one of the items she bought.  It was good stuff and I honestly was sorry to see them go. They weren't as pushy as Primerica.  Although they trained recruits to sell their insurance and financial products, I realized a few months in that what they really wanted us to do was recruit, recruit, recruit others.  I'm not pushy or a big people person, so I realized I'd never be able to support myself on it.  A couple of years later, when one of my other sisters died and I received an insurance payout, I contacted them to get some advice re: investing it...they never returned my call. Yeah, help people out, riiiiight. #sarcasm