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Boycott Target: No Men in womens bathroom group on facebook


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Our local Golden Corral has also a family-friendly bathroom--which is wheelchair accessible. (It's a newish building, so no retrofitting needed.) Neither of us are particularly body-conscious nor into freaking out the mundanes, but without a FF bathroom, what the heck would we DO if one or the other needed toileting assistance? I go into the men's john, glaring and saying "I'm a NURSE, damnit"? He tries to find some nice lady to help me out?

Steven Petrow of the Washington Post had some rocking comments, but since he's an ebil one of THOSE people, well....

This comment is from the first article: >>Let’s also remember that the overwhelming majority of sexual predators are straight men, which is why I would not want a daughter or son of mine to go unsupervised into a bathroom with adult men.<<

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/bathroom-panic-doesnt-help-anyone--male-female-or-transgender/2016/02/26/22d0869c-d9a6-11e5-925f-1d10062cc82d_story.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/civilities-for-trans-people-being-terrified-of-bathrooms-is-common/2015/05/08/688bedd8-f591-11e4-b2f3-af5479e6bbdd_story.html

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3 hours ago, dianapavelovna said:

Companies explicitly affirming transpeople's right to use the bathroom of their choice does not affect the safety of public bathrooms. Sexual predators of all varieties have always been free to walk into any public bathroom they choose. That has not changed. Everyone is as safe in a public bathroom as they ever were. 

This, exactly.

A friend of mine was raped in a public restroom. The perpetrator was aware there was no one nearby to intervene and followed her into the bathroom. He made no attempt to disguise himself as a woman, nor did he need to - he was able to commit the assault because there was no one other than the victim present to witness it. In a situation where there were other people present, presumably they would not have allowed a sexual assault to proceed unhindered just because the attacker was wearing female clothing. 

Ultimately, one person's feeling of safety in the absence of an actual threat should not come at the expense of another person's basic rights.

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39 minutes ago, samira_catlover said:

Our local Golden Corral has also a family-friendly bathroom--which is wheelchair accessible. (It's a newish building, so no retrofitting needed.) Neither of us are particularly body-conscious nor into freaking out the mundanes, but without a FF bathroom, what the heck would we DO if one or the other needed toileting assistance? I go into the men's john, glaring and saying "I'm a NURSE, damnit"? He tries to find some nice lady to help me out?

Steven Petrow of the Washington Post had some rocking comments, but since he's an ebil one of THOSE people, well....

This comment is from the first article: >>Let’s also remember that the overwhelming majority of sexual predators are straight men, which is why I would not want a daughter or son of mine to go unsupervised into a bathroom with adult men.<<

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/bathroom-panic-doesnt-help-anyone--male-female-or-transgender/2016/02/26/22d0869c-d9a6-11e5-925f-1d10062cc82d_story.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/civilities-for-trans-people-being-terrified-of-bathrooms-is-common/2015/05/08/688bedd8-f591-11e4-b2f3-af5479e6bbdd_story.html

I am with you. In particular, to the bolded. 

I am an atheist, and have two close friends who are trans. I personally have no issues. What I found interesting about the conversation with my friend was that I expected the worst out of her when she started posting because of her faith and felt badly when I realized I was dismissing her concerns that are fair. She wasn't suggesting that transpeople would be any more likely (and admitted exactly what is bolded) to be sexual predators. However, it did bring up a concern that I can't help but realize could be valid. That being that a sexual predator sees an easy in and takes advantage of situation. 

Personally, I have used co-Ed locker rooms and been topless at beaches in Europe (or just changed there). I don't let my kids use public restrooms themselves, etc. Yet I don't like that people are feeling unsafe. I wouldn't bat an eye if a transperson was in the restroom with me. In fact, I recently rushed my son into a public men's room because we were traveling and it was that or him having an accident. Family room was in use, women's room had an incredible line. Men in the room laughed it off and my kid raced to a urinal. 

People need to be educated and understanding on both sides. We want all people to feel comfortable with choices to use hat ever restroom you please. 

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I wish more discussions about gender neutral bathrooms went more like the one where I work. Mass email basically stating that it has come to their attention that we have staff and clients that would like to see a gender neutral washroom. Therefore these two specified single washrooms are now gender neutral here's a photo of the signage. Contact HR if you have concerns. Only comments heard were oh okay good to know and glad to see we are keeping up with the needs of staff/clients. 

 

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This whole bathroom issue pisses me off!!! I don't care if you are trans or a straight male that just has to use the bathroom. A public restroom is just that PUBLIC!!! 

I have gone into countless men's restrooms because the line for the women's was too long and i had to go. I have never been raped or talked down too because of it. Most of my friends and family laugh about it. But, these same people are now posting all over Facebook about the "dangerous trans-people using the "wrong" bathroom" It's a public restroom people!!!! I can't stand the fear mongering that is going on. The trans community doesn't need this publicity.

They have enough issues they are dealing with, now they have bathroom laws that basically humiliates them. If I'm being honest it humiliates me as a member of the human race, why can't we just all get along and mind our own business. How are they going to enforce these bathroom laws? have police at every public restroom? Do i have to show ID to use the restroom? Is it going to be like customs..... what is the nature of your visit today? 

I just don't believe rapists are going to dress up like the opposite sex just to get into the opposite genders restroom. 1st of all the chances of you being raped in a crowded restroom are slim. The rapist isn't going to use a busy restroom or if you are not alone they won't choose you. Women have been raped in public restrooms and NEWS FLASH the perp didn't dress like a women to gain access. He walked right in dressed like a man!!!!!!! 

Sorry for the rant i just can't take the bullshit anymore it makes me so sad to read all these hateful things people are putting up all over social media.

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I also don't think anyone is going to dress up as a woman to gain access. I mean, is that even needed? Really want to be clear here, I am playing devil's advocate here. I absolute agree with all that is being said, but I think trivializing concerns of sexual assault victims as if they are fear-mongering for feeling uncomfortable with the possibility of men using a woman's bathroom, etc, is unfair and a kind of abuse victims shouldn't have to endure. I don't mean that it should mean we are segregating bathrooms to biological sex specific restrooms, but if there is a concern, it should be addressed, not ignored.  If anything, to assure any possible glitches are ironed out so transpeople are able to use whatever bathroom they please with as much peace and little concern as possible. I don't even mean we need to wait for target or anywhere else to roll this out, but still honestly discuss the hard questions. 

Personally, I wish all bathrooms were co-Ed, gender neutral, etc, and always like the option of a family restroom.  In fact, if more people are in one bathroom at a given time, I am hoping if some random guy was trying to assault a woman another person would be willing to intervene.  

As far as people claiming transpeople = sexual predator, they are full of shit. I mean, of course it doesn't mean they could not be, but so can your straight white pastor, etc. (I want side by side statistics comparing those two) 

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Ultimately, this could lead to conversations about holding sexual offenders accountable and understanding that survivors of sexual abuse can have many different emotional responses. Also that men can be victims too. Being that 1 in 6 men are victims of sexual abuse, I think it is worthy of a discussion. 

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I absolutely agree that all survivors of sexual assault should receive the emotional support they need.

That said, I feel that conflating that into the same issue as the civil rights of trans people as if it were somehow an opposing side would reinforce stereotypes, affirm fears that are not grounded in reality rather than encouraging empowerment for survivors, and completely silence and erase the experience of the many trans people who have been victims of physical and sexual violence because our society refuses to adequately meet their safety and privacy needs.    

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One thing that can be done is to make sure there are diaper changing tables in both restrooms since sometimes that "man in a women's restroom" is a father who needs to change his child's diaper, and the men's room doesn't have the table. Another issue is that women often take their minor sons with them into the women's restroom because they don't feel safe letting them go into the men's room as boys have been molested in the men's room.

I think some would be extremely shocked if they went to Europe, since many public restrooms are unisex. Personally, I'm more concerned about those who don't wash their hands after using the bathroom than I am about what genitals the person peeing in the next stall has.

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I, for one, although childless (our kids have four feet, tails, and go meow), am DELIGHTED to see more and more changing table signs in the men's bathrooms.  A dear friend for years had 2 boys in diapers/briefs at the same time---and was often forced in the past to change a kid on the floor of the men's room. (Yuch.)

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This just came across my FB feed today. :pb_lol::pb_lol::pb_lol: I can't vouch for the truthiness, b/c I don't know how to go about vetting it.

transmen.jpg

And here is the text that accompanied it: "These 6 men are Transgender Men. But because of the bigoted laws recently passed in several of the Southern States, these 6 men, because they were born female will have to share a public restroom with your wives, your sisters, your aunts, your mothers, your nieces and yes, even your daughters - instead of being allowed to use the restroom of the gender they now identify with. I only post this to try and educate those who support these bigoted and discriminatory laws."

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I love this because nobody is actually going to boycott Target. Like, maybe, for a month. But eventually, like always, it's going to be 5:45 pm and you're driving home from work and you're low on groceries and you need to stop and you're driving by a Target and they're gonna say, "Screw it" and go buy something from Target. At least where I live, they are everywhere, they are convenient, they have a shopping atmosphere that I find less stressful than Wal-Mart and you don't even have to use the bathroom while you're there.

Chik-fil-a boycotts obviously didn't bankrupt the company and that was significantly easier to do. Chik-fil-a is a business you seek out, Target is a business you sometimes seek out and sometimes end up at in moments of desparation because you need a new tie and the kids need cereal and you're low on cat litter and it's a hard week. I am still boycotting Chik-fil-a, too. It takes literally no effort. Not going to Target would be a major inconvenience for me.

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1 hour ago, EyeQueue said:

This just came across my FB feed today. :pb_lol::pb_lol::pb_lol: I can't vouch for the truthiness, b/c I don't know how to go about vetting it.

transmen.jpg

And here is the text that accompanied it: "These 6 men are Transgender Men. But because of the bigoted laws recently passed in several of the Southern States, these 6 men, because they were born female will have to share a public restroom with your wives, your sisters, your aunts, your mothers, your nieces and yes, even your daughters - instead of being allowed to use the restroom of the gender they now identify with. I only post this to try and educate those who support these bigoted and discriminatory laws."

I don't recognize them all, but plenty of trans guys present as what most people consider traditionally masculine, so there'd be no reason to fake it. The guy in the middle photo on the bottom has been using this argument for some time. A year or so ago, he got friends to verify women's restrooms were empty and then went in with them to take a series of selfies. This is one of those photos.

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25 minutes ago, Antimony said:

I love this because nobody is actually going to boycott Target. Like, maybe, for a month. But eventually, like always, it's going to be 5:45 pm and you're driving home from work and you're low on groceries and you need to stop and you're driving by a Target and they're gonna say, "Screw it" and go buy something from Target. At least where I live, they are everywhere, they are convenient, they have a shopping atmosphere that I find less stressful than Wal-Mart and you don't even have to use the bathroom while you're there.

Chik-fil-a boycotts obviously didn't bankrupt the company and that was significantly easier to do. Chik-fil-a is a business you seek out, Target is a business you sometimes seek out and sometimes end up at in moments of desparation because you need a new tie and the kids need cereal and you're low on cat litter and it's a hard week. I am still boycotting Chik-fil-a, too. It takes literally no effort. Not going to Target would be a major inconvenience for me.

Years ago, some groups on the right encouraged boycotts of all things Disney, including ESPN, because the company was too LGBT-friendly for their taste. There is still regular whining about Gay Day at Disney World, but I don't think they even attempt to stop their followers from tuning in to sports or watching Disney movies any more.

Then there was the great Starbucks boycott and the attempt to get people to buy some "Godly" brand of coffee online. This terrified the Starbucks CEO so much that when a bunch of complainers showed up at a shareholders' meeting, he told them that if they didn't like the company's inclusive policies, they were free to sell their stock.

I boycott not because I think it's going to have a huge effect that I don't eat Chik-fil-a or buy some other products, but because I refuse on principle to give my money to certain companies.

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I like what liberal redneck had to say on the YouTubes about this subject....

 

21 hours ago, paganbaby said:

I boycott not because I think it's going to have a huge effect that I don't eat Chik-fil-a or buy some other products, but because I refuse on principle to give my money to certain companies.

Yeah I don't really care much for Chick-fil-a either.  We're getting one where I live, they tore down the local Perkins to put one up.  Mmmm....chicken with bigotry.  Just what the doctor ordered.  Hopefully Perkins is coming back at a different location.

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5 minutes ago, 47of74 said:

I like what liberal redneck had to say on the YouTubes about this subject....

 

Yeah I don't really care much for Chick-fil-a either.  We're getting one where I live, they tore down the local Perkins to put one up.  Mmmm....chicken with bigotry.  Just what the doctor ordered.  Hopefully Perkins is coming back at a different location.

I'll take Perkins pie over bigoted waffle fries any day!

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I didn't even realize Perkins was still around.  The one in my area closed at least two decades ago.

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I have, unfortunately, given into my longtime CFA boycott, which I boycotted prior to their anti-gay BS. Not open it n Sunday's? Lame. 

However, I live in an area where there aren't a lot indoor places that are kid friendly and clean. The play area is always spotless and the staff go out of their way to make it easy with kids. So, I can go there, let my toddler play and get a few things done or let him get out some much needed energy when running annoying errands. We rarely eat fast food, but when we do, it is now our go to fast food spot. Still, we often say it tastes like hate. 

On April 22, 2016 at 4:53 PM, ADoyle90815 said:

I think some would be extremely shocked if they went to Europe, since many public restrooms are unisex. Personally, I'm more concerned about those who don't wash their hands after using the bathroom than I am about what genitals the person peeing in the next stall has.

This exactly. In time, this will become the new normal, I believe people will accept it, however, change seems to freak people out and culturally, we live in Puritan America. 

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6 hours ago, smittykins said:

I didn't even realize Perkins was still around.  The one in my area closed at least two decades ago.

Yeah they're still around.  My sister was a bit bent out of shape because it was the hangout of choice late at night during her high school days.  You could get breakfast there at 11pm.

I liked going there occasionally.  I hope they'll come back at a new location like they said they would.  Of course they could always change their mind and say it's too much trouble to open a new store - that's sort of what I'm concerned about.

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On 4/22/2016 at 3:53 PM, ADoyle90815 said:

One thing that can be done is to make sure there are diaper changing tables in both restrooms since sometimes that "man in a women's restroom" is a father who needs to change his child's diaper, and the men's room doesn't have the table. Another issue is that women often take their minor sons with them into the women's restroom because they don't feel safe letting them go into the men's room as boys have been molested in the men's room.

I think some would be extremely shocked if they went to Europe, since many public restrooms are unisex. Personally, I'm more concerned about those who don't wash their hands after using the bathroom than I am about what genitals the person peeing in the next stall has.

The unisex restrooms I recall seeing in Europe were vastly superior to the cheaply constructed public restrooms in this country. We need to demand better facilities that allow for actual privacy. Most public restrooms have the cheap stalls with gaps on both sides of the doors. Some are so short that a taller person (even 5'7" me when wearing heels) can easily see over the door and walls (note the story earlier in the thread of a woman having a man looking over a stall). Over half the time, the locks don't work properly or at all--most of us engage in some sort of peeking ritual to find an empty one as the doors swing back shut when not in use. 

How about we stop the moaning about transgender people in the restroom and demand a nationwide redesign? I recall unisex restrooms in Europe (14 years ago) having stalls with full proper doors with working locks and full walls (and there were no lines of urinals for men). The locks indicated "vacant" or "in use" on the outside of the door. If we had that kind of proper privacy, perhaps this would not even be an issue. 

I suggested this to a very conservative friend who posted negatively about allowing transgendered people to use the public restrooms of their choosing and she admitted that it would solve the problem, as well as many other concerns people often have about public restrooms. 

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On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 10:41 PM, samira_catlover said:

Our local Golden Corral has also a family-friendly bathroom--which is wheelchair accessible. (It's a newish building, so no retrofitting needed.) Neither of us are particularly body-conscious nor into freaking out the mundanes, but without a FF bathroom, what the heck would we DO if one or the other needed toileting assistance? I go into the men's john, glaring and saying "I'm a NURSE, damnit"? He tries to find some nice lady to help me out?

Steven Petrow of the Washington Post had some rocking comments, but since he's an ebil one of THOSE people, well....

This comment is from the first article: >>Let’s also remember that the overwhelming majority of sexual predators are straight men, which is why I would not want a daughter or son of mine to go unsupervised into a bathroom with adult men.<<

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/bathroom-panic-doesnt-help-anyone--male-female-or-transgender/2016/02/26/22d0869c-d9a6-11e5-925f-1d10062cc82d_story.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/civilities-for-trans-people-being-terrified-of-bathrooms-is-common/2015/05/08/688bedd8-f591-11e4-b2f3-af5479e6bbdd_story.html

The first paragraph above is my new worry.  My dad recently had a health setback, and now needs help going to the bathroom.  We haven't been out somewhere long enough for him to need a bathroom break, but it'll happen sometime in the future.  It'll be a potentially uncomfortable situation no matter which bathroom we pick, unless there's a family friendly one available.

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21 minutes ago, JMarie said:

The first paragraph above is my new worry.  My dad recently had a health setback, and now needs help going to the bathroom.  We haven't been out somewhere long enough for him to need a bathroom break, but it'll happen sometime in the future.  It'll be a potentially uncomfortable situation no matter which bathroom we pick, unless there's a family friendly one available.

My dad had difficulties managing by himself due to chemo side effects. We would sometimes be sitting in a restaurant staring at the bathroom door hoping he'd come out okay when it was just my mother and I with him. He took so long once at a restaurant that we got the male manager to check and he came back and said dad needed help, but no one else was in there, so mom could go in. If my brother, husband, or nephew were with us in public, one of them went to the bathroom with him. He did use the family restrooms at some places so mom could go with him. 

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On 4/21/2016 at 0:15 PM, Witherwings said:

I had a fundie lite friend post this on FB. She was immediately asked about it and very honest. She made it very clear that she isn't concerned about transgender people doing anything wrong or her children seeing that. That she will explain she doesn't agree with the lifestyle (or whatever) but that some do. Her concern was that bad people would take advantage of something intended to "do right".  She discussed being a victim of sexual assault at a young age (but well old enough to remember and understand exactly what was happening) by an older man.

If only there was a law against sexually assaulting people in bathrooms!

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Snopes had something on this today;

deadstate.org/snopes-com-debunks-viral-conservative-story-falsely-linking-bathroom-perv-to-transgender-friendly-bathrooms/

Quote

Several conservative news outlets, like Breitbart, shared the recent story of a Pennsylvania man who was arrested for filming young girls inside of a store’s bathroom. Conservative media used the story to justify new anti-LGBT “bathroom laws” which claim that allowing people to use the bathroom of their identified gender would make children accessible to sexual predators.

What many readers don’t know is that the Pennsylvania arrest was completely unrelated to transgender issues.

James Thomas Shoemaker, 19, was arrested after taking pictures of women and young girls while hiding in a bathroom stall. Shoemaker never claimed to be transgender, and even if he did, his actions would still be explicitly illegal.

Filming individuals in a bathroom is illegal in nearly every jurisdiction, as the act violates their reasonable expectation of privacy. Although many anti-LGBT lawmakers and pundits believe that privacy would be at risk if “men” could use women’s bathrooms, there is no evidence to support that claim.

Of course these conservative "news" outhouses never let facts get in the way of one of their good combination crucifixion/stoning/burning/drownings that they so like to do.

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4 hours ago, Black Aliss said:

If only there was a law against sexually assaulting people in bathrooms!

This was also an argument I used. She pointed out the same can be said for guns. 

Anyway, she was less miffed by unisex bathrooms than leaving it as is with the option to use which you want. She seemed to feel that was the solution and as stated above, an overhaul in restrooms.  

She also acknowledged she didn't want to validate perpetrators or to make women feel they bear responsibility. Her primary concern was to have tougher laws and harsher punishments for the perpetrator. 

It was a bit eye opening for me. I don't think it can be said she didn't feel any of this because of her Christian beliefs, but I did realize she didn't think a trans person was a bad person who was going to harm her or her children and that she wasn't thinking of it in a hateful way. 

pone thing she had not thought of is how a transperson may have been assaulted or feel unsafe in one sex bathroom. She agreed nobody should feel that way and kept going back to agreeing unisex bathrooms are possibly the answer. 

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