Boycott Target: No Men in womens bathroom group on facebook

[19TrollsandCounting]

So i imagine most of you have heard about Target letting Transgender use the bathroom of your choice

and of course theres protests and boycott

theres a boycott group on FB against target and urging members not to shop there and the admin just happens to be a fan of Steven Anderson aka PP

so for every post someone makes the admin posts one of PP's sermons which he feels relates to this

heres the link https://www.facebook.com/groups/856073327854766/

I Wouldve put this in the Steven anderson forum but since this topic is a worldly topic i put it here, if someone would like to put in the PP forum feel free to do so

[adidas]

No trans woman is going to let other people in the bathroom see the wrongly assigned urination equipment she was born with. Like all other women, she will probably go quietly into the cubicle and relieve herself without making a fuss. Her biggest problem should be trying to get out the door without touching the grubby handle.

Unfortunately she has other grubs to worry about.

[EyeQueue]

This just exploded on my FB newsfeed. Unfortunately, most of the comments seem to come from ignorant, hateful assholes.

One just said, "If you're so confused about which bathroom to go to, then feel free to use your own home bathroom. Or wear Depends."

Lovely. So, you can either squeeze your legs together and suffer until you get home, or wear a fucking adult diaper.

I just can't with these ignoramuses.

[Mercer]

That's a pretty ridiculous protest/boycott. Trans women are women, not men, so whether men should use women's restrooms is a moot point regarding them.

[Full enough quiver]

How would one even know which genitalia the person in the stall next to you has, anyway? There are plenty of feminine looking men and masculine looking women out there that were born with the "correct" genitals. What are they going to do, have a penis checker at the door?

[Bethella]

34 minutes ago, Full enough quiver said:

How would one even know which genitalia the person in the stall next to you has, anyway? There are plenty of feminine looking men and masculine looking women out there that were born with the "correct" genitals. What are they going to do, have a penis checker at the door?

Your comment reminded me of this story from Pennsic (a large medieval reenactment in Pennsylvania) http://www.pennsic.net/nw40.html#bernadette

Quote

 

Bernadette's Story
I have been to every Pennsic since Pennsic 10. For 17 of those Pennsics I was a monk named Brother Maynard. The last three I have been a wench named Bernadette. The SCA has never considered transsexuality a big deal. I am thankful for that. I live and work as a guy and spend my SCA time as female. It is an intersting life. In my new persona I have cleveage that makes real women jealous.

So a couple of days later I go to the men without pants party. I got my nicest dress on and maximum cleveage. You know all the jokes about what guys would do if they had breasts. They are true. I got em and I flauted them. I get to the party and they ask for ID. I am 45 years old. I have not been carded in decades. I walk back around the camp, get my ID and walk back. By now it is dark. I get in line to have my ID checked. My ID is from 3 years before of a guy in a leather jacket with a full beard. The lady checking ID's shines her flashlight on me, then on my driver's license, them me, then the ID, then me, at least a half a dozen times. Then she says, "This is a joke right?" I say no and if she wants to do a without pants check she will find the truth. She just shakes her head and waves me in at that point. So I go get in the line with the guys. About 10 seconds later a girl grabs me and says, "No, you get in the inspection line. This line is for the men we need to check." I tell her, "I know. I need to be inspected." She says, "No, you don't understand. We inspect the guys." I say, "No, you don't understand. I need to be inspected." We went back and forth about 5 times before she did a quicky inspection and dragged me through the gate to stand with the inspection que. I don't think she ever did get it.

 

[clueliss]

Okay so I'll be shopping at Target more now.  

ignoramuses anyway.

[smittykins]

I would if I could(no Targets in my immediate area, unfortunately).

[catlady]

11 hours ago, Full enough quiver said:

How would one even know which genitalia the person in the stall next to you has, anyway? There are plenty of feminine looking men and masculine looking women out there that were born with the "correct" genitals. What are they going to do, have a penis checker at the door?

I keep asking this, and no one seems to have an answer (other than, "you don't know.").  if people would just mind their own damn business, use the restroom for the reason intended, and get on with their day, this wouldn't be much of an issue.

[19 cats and counting]

This makes me want to shop at Target more than I already do (LOVE that store).

I've used a gender neutral bathroom before (at a gay bar).  It's seriously no big deal.  There are stalls and you don't have to pull down your pants in public.  Pee, wash your hands, and then leave.

[libriatrix]

12 hours ago, Full enough quiver said:

How would one even know which genitalia the person in the stall next to you has, anyway? There are plenty of feminine looking men and masculine looking women out there that were born with the "correct" genitals. What are they going to do, have a penis checker at the door?

No, they're just going to throw people out sans inspection.

http://www.newnownext.com/lesbian-teen-kicked-out-of-mcdonalds-for-using-wrong-bathroom-failing-to-prove-gender/04/2016/

 

[Witherwings]

I had a fundie lite friend post this on FB. She was immediately asked about it and very honest. She made it very clear that she isn't concerned about transgender people doing anything wrong or her children seeing that. That she will explain she doesn't agree with the lifestyle (or whatever) but that some do. Her concern was that bad people would take advantage of something intended to "do right".  She discussed being a victim of sexual assault at a young age (but well old enough to remember and understand exactly what was happening) by an older man. 

So, it did make me feel for her. Oddly. I don't agree with her, but I do feel empathy for those who are victims of sexual assault and did raise questions for me.  She also mentioned using family restrooms whenever possible for this very reason and even walking into women's bathrooms, feeling uncomfortable with people standing outside of the bathroom or in and deciding everyone is going to "hold it" and heading home or elsewhere. 

 

[catlady]

@Witherwings, your friend makes a valid point and I understand her perspective on safety.  that being said, one's safety in a public bathroom has no direct bearing on transgender people.  back around 1990, my grandparents were visiting a local park.  while in the women's restroom, my grandmother (about 70 at the time) looked up from her stall to see a man looking over the partition at her.  she immediately began shouting for him to get out and yelled for my grandfather (who was waiting at the door).  the guy ran out immediately, and they reported the incident to park security, but the takeaway is that people with the intent to do harm are not likely to disguise themselves in opposite-sex clothes, dangerous people have existed long before transgender issues became mainstream, and one must observe one's surroundings (as WitherWings's friend does).

further, I can't help but think that the average man-to-woman individual wants to use the ladies' room not to cause trouble, but to avoid potential trouble from narrow-minded occupants of the men's room.

[Witherwings]

Agreed with all you said and she did agree with all of this. In fact, she mentioned all of this on her own. Her big point was "There are bad people and until I see stricter laws and more education, I don't feel comfortable with an added risk" I don't think she was at all suggesting that transgender people are the cause of this at all. In fact, I think she presented a fair argument that doing this doesn't come without some risk and possibly is putting people (including victims) in situations that make them feel unsafe. In fact, does one even need to dress as a woman to use a woman's restroom? What if that individual identifies (or addressing her concern, pretends to identify) as a woman? In fact, she even pointed out that she is under no illusion that women are not capable harm. 

However, while it is of course ideal to observe one's surroundings, which I also do, I do hate to imply that if one doesn't do so, it is their fault. I know that isn't what any of us are suggesting. 

My takeaway: it sucks that their are sexual predators and bad people in general. It sucks that this is even something worthy of discussion, hence causing the ability to use this logic as a reason to NOT allow bathroom choices. It sucks even more that there will be people from both sides of this debate arguing with this logic (or against this logic) as means to prove their side is correct. Being honest that safety could be a concern or the feelings of safety should be addressed is needed so we can work to allow transgender people to feel comfortable and all to be and to feel safe. As far as people feeling unsafe for hateful or uneducated reasons, well, I guess education and time are key in that regard. 

[dianapavelovna]

Companies explicitly affirming transpeople's right to use the bathroom of their choice does not affect the safety of public bathrooms. Sexual predators of all varieties have always been free to walk into any public bathroom they choose. That has not changed. Everyone is as safe in a public bathroom as they ever were. 

[Witherwings]

53 minutes ago, dianapavelovna said:

Companies explicitly affirming transpeople's right to use the bathroom of their choice does not affect the safety of public bathrooms. Sexual predators of all varieties have always been free to walk into any public bathroom they choose. That has not changed. Everyone is as safe in a public bathroom as they ever were. 

That was my argument and she mostly agreed with it. However, if you were to say that to a rape victim, it may be heard and accepted, or it may point out the concern that everyone is as safe as they always were in a public bathroom, but is that safe enough? Again, nobody was suggesting jog transpeople would be any more likely to be sexual predators than anyone else. In fact, I think all people In the discussion put forth that transpeople were not making them feel unsafe or uncomfortable. 

[19 cats and counting]

People also need to keep in mind that Target (at least the one near me) also offers a gender neutral bathroom.  I remember seeing signs for it by the mens/ladies rooms.  (I've never used it, but I'm assuming it's a single stall one).  

[Witherwings]

Yes. Plus, many public places have gender neutral/family restrooms. I have issues when it comes to germs and almost always find these to be cleaner AND I usually have kids with me, so I prefer the family restroom. I am the only person in there, so no creepiness. 

I am also just realizing that @19 cats and counting and @19TrollsandCounting are not the same person. 

[19 cats and counting]

I think I like the 19 trolls and counting screen name better.

There's also another 19 cats and counting, but without space.  I guess there's more than one of us wanting a reality show featuring the neighborhood cat lady.

[Witherwings]

when I put in your names I noticed a 19 dogs too. Too funny. I am not witty enough to come up with a funny name.

[catlady]

14 minutes ago, 19 cats and counting said:

I think I like the 19 trolls and counting screen name better.

There's also another 19 cats and counting, but without space.  I guess there's more than one of us wanting a reality show featuring the neighborhood cat lady.

i noticed the other 19cats recently; i was confused for a minute.  i also discovered CrazyCatLady was here first.  if i'd known that when i signed up, i would have come up with a different one.

[dianapavelovna]

1 hour ago, Witherwings said:

That was my argument and she mostly agreed with it. However, if you were to say that to a rape victim, it may be heard and accepted, or it may point out the concern that everyone is as safe as they always were in a public bathroom, but is that safe enough? Again, nobody was suggesting jog transpeople would be any more likely to be sexual predators than anyone else. In fact, I think all people In the discussion put forth that transpeople were not making them feel unsafe or uncomfortable. 

Then that's a totally different conversation about rape culture and sexual assault prevention in general, not letting transpeople go to the bathroom.

[Witherwings]

1 minute ago, dianapavelovna said:

Then that's a totally different conversation about rape culture and sexual assault prevention in general, not letting transpeople go to the bathroom.

Mostly agreeing with you. Almost entirely, but IF the concern is brought up, I think addressing it openly and honestly is going to help more people feel comfortable rather than ignoring and disregarding their concerns. 

[paganbaby]

I enjoyed the liberal redneck take on this. Language warning in case others are around when you listen.

 

[EyeQueue]

1 hour ago, paganbaby said:

I enjoyed the liberal redneck take on this. Language warning in case others are around when you listen.

 

Wrapping a skirt around his wiener.

This guy was good.

I'm just so sick of the frothing-at-the-mouth from the other side. It's like that meme that went around last year: "Hide your kids, hide your wife, because they're rapin' everybody up in here."

Um...no. That's not what's going to happen, for pretty much the reasons this guy goes over.