Fundie Retreat to Marry Off Children ~ Vaughn Ohlman

[Cleopatra7]

On the one hand, I'm glad this conference has been canceled. Whatever one thinks about the Salvation Army's position on LGBT people, they're a mainstream Christian organization and aren't going to go to bat for extreme dominionists who advocate selling off young girls like cattle. On the other hand, I doubt this is the last we'll see of this mindset. What will probably happen is that clandestine, borderline illegal courtships and marriages will happen between fathers exchanging texts and emails so no outsiders will know what is going on.

[Baabaablacksheep]

3 hours ago, DomWackTroll said:

There sure was. And I once had screencaps of it-- since lost in a computer crash!  Oy, it's killing me right now, because believe me, it was a doozy. Vaughn was... well, you can guess which side Vaughn was on. Other members were complaining about him (and others on his side)-- a lot-- to Nattie and Nattie was all like "Let's try to respect each other's opinions." 

Because, you know, Christian Liberty. Unless you have a vagina. 

Omg - way to go guys, reward rapists by forcing their victims to marry them instead of having the rapist prosecuted. Totally makes sense. So, I'm sorry, but doesn't this sort of just encourage the criminal act of rape - As in, oh hey, there's one I like, if I rape her she will be mine forever and no one else can have her. The dehumanizing aspects of their total and complete logic fail in figuring out the consequences of their ridiculous ideas framed in the "oh so holy we are following the Bible" worldview demonstrates their total and complete depravity.

[teachergirl]

I am gladi t has been cancelled.  You know, how scary are the families that would go to this? Even though he has lots of FB friends, most of them went the courtship route and probably don't believe in most of what he believes.  How terrifying for a young woman to understand that she has no autonomy whatsoever and that she will be basically forced to marry who her father chooses....  He is scary as hell.

[Howl]

2 hours ago, Hiddenomaha said:

Being a 6'3" athletic male, Im pretty sure I can hold my own

But, but, these are virulenty virile manly headships, loaded with holy testosterone,  CONVICTED to pair a daughter with a manly man.  I repeat.  No one is safe. 

[DomWackTroll]

22 minutes ago, teachergirl said:

I am gladi t has been cancelled.  You know, how scary are the families that would go to this? Even though he has lots of FB friends, most of them went the courtship route and probably don't believe in most of what he believes.  How terrifying for a young woman to understand that she has no autonomy whatsoever and that she will be basically forced to marry who her father chooses....  He is scary as hell.

No, they probably don't. But it's just one more example of the disturbing lack of discernment in the Extreme Reformed Community. As someone who has spent way too much time on their Facebook pages, I can tell you that scrolling through the average former VFer's friends is like, "Kinist... neo-Confederate... advocate of the execution of homosexuals... another kinist..." 

I mean, if you have 10 or more friends who are that fucked up, you can't blame me for thinking that maybe you're that fucked up. 

[HarryPotterFan]

2 hours ago, Hiddenomaha said:

Being a 6'3" athletic male, Im pretty sure I can hold my own

OMG I just noticed your avatar. I love it!

 

52 minutes ago, Baabaablacksheep said:

Omg - way to go guys, reward rapists by forcing their victims to marry them instead of having the rapist prosecuted. Totally makes sense. So, I'm sorry, but doesn't this sort of just encourage the criminal act of rape - As in, oh hey, there's one I like, if I rape her she will be mine forever and no one else can have her. The dehumanizing aspects of their total and complete logic fail in figuring out the consequences of their ridiculous ideas framed in the "oh so holy we are following the Bible" worldview demonstrates their total and complete depravity.

The thought of how much trauma endured by the poor women forced to marry their rapists makes me feel so sad, angry, and uncomfortable.

[Black Aliss]

On 5/4/2016 at 8:40 AM, CloakNDagger said:

Not in 100 years. They are not friends with Vaughn.

Botkinettes and Poor Sarah are a bit long in the tooth for this event. Vaughn Ohlman believes people should be married before they turn 20.

Quote

For those of our readers unfamiliar with ‘Free Jinger’, they are an anti-Christian, blasphemous, foul-mouthed site set up to oppose (mostly just mock) the Duggar family and other quiverful advocates.

He says that like he thinks it's a bad thing!

[quiversR4hunting]

So I don't want to click on his blog and give him more hits. Anyone that read the post about us, did he answer our question about if they would welcome Catholics? 

[refugee]

1 hour ago, Baabaablacksheep said:

Omg - way to go guys, reward rapists by forcing their victims to marry them instead of having the rapist prosecuted. Totally makes sense. So, I'm sorry, but doesn't this sort of just encourage the criminal act of rape - As in, oh hey, there's one I like, if I rape her she will be mine forever and no one else can have her. The dehumanizing aspects of their total and complete logic fail in figuring out the consequences of their ridiculous ideas framed in the "oh so holy we are following the Bible" worldview demonstrates their total and complete depravity.

Shades of "The Burning Bed"...

[Dandruff]

What's to stop some wealthy (enough to pay the tab) perv from signing up and seeing whose daddy he can charm?  I hope that care is taken to check "strangers" out carefully.

[lawlifelgbt]

On 5/4/2016 at 9:51 AM, refugee said:

I want to throw up. I had a physical, visceral reaction to reading this.

We came out of a church where they'd be applauding this.

Or that guy who kept the three women prisoner in his basement. Thankfully my brain is not bringing his name to mind at the moment.

(Didn't they raze his house, to cheers by the onlookers?)

There have been similar events already. I know of at least two that were put on by this group of people:

http://www.homeschoolalumni.org/

Or the kidnapper in "Room." I mean, Ma had Jack, and Old Nick is single, so presumably...ick!

[JMarie]

Quote

Let Them Marry

40 mins ·

Note: As we have made clear several times before, we state again: We do not support or in any way condone child sexual activity of any sort, or any other illegal activity. Nor do we support or condone forced marriages. We believe that no parents should seek a spouse for a child where that child has not actively sought for the parents to do so.

They have a facebook page https://www.facebook.com/letthemmarry/

[NachosFlandersStyle]

1 minute ago, JMarie said:

They have a facebook page https://www.facebook.com/letthemmarry/

With a whopping 13 likes. I don't think that conference was going to happen either way.

[HarryPotterFan]

15 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

What's to stop some wealthy (enough to pay the tab) perv from signing up and seeing whose daddy he can charm?  I hope that care is taken to check "strangers" out carefully.

A true follower of Christ would never be a pervert!!! 

[SweetFellowshipper]

I don't think it was actually cancelled. The Salvation Army just said they couldn't have it on their campground. There's no reason they can't have it somewhere else. Is there some info that it's actually cancelled, or...?

He just posted another FB post an hour ago. 

[Baabaablacksheep]

26 minutes ago, NachosFlandersStyle said:

With a whopping 13 likes. I don't think that conference was going to happen either way.

Weird - I swear they had somewhere around 88 likes when I checked when I first saw this post yesterday.

[Cleopatra7]

13 minutes ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

I don't think it was actually cancelled. The Salvation Army just said they couldn't have it on their campground. There's no reason they can't have it somewhere else. Is there some info that it's actually cancelled, or...?

He just posted another FB post an hour ago. 

The only place I could think of that would sponsor a conference like this would be a FIC (are those still a thing these days?) where everyone agrees that extremely  young marriage is a good thing and where only like minded people would know about it. Maybe they could have it in a park and disguise it as a church picnic.

[SweetFellowshipper]

3 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

The only place I could think of that would sponsor a conference like this would be a FIC (are those still a thing these days?) where everyone agrees that extremely  young marriage is a good thing and where only like minded people would know about it. Maybe they could have it in a park and disguise it as a church picnic.

I think they'd just have it in a random campground or on someone's land, right? Most campgrounds probably aren't asking a ton of questions. 

[EyeQueue]

1 hour ago, quiversR4hunting said:

So I don't want to click on his blog and give him more hits. Anyone that read the post about us, did he answer our question about if they would welcome Catholics? 

No. At least on the page where they talk about Raw Story and FJ talking about their retreat, there is no mention of Catholicism in the comments at all.

ETA: OMG you guys! I'm LEVEL ELEVENTY!!11111eleventy!11

[nickelodeon]

Gunna go out on a limb and guess that there are no Catholics allowed. I mean, when Prince Charming Ohlman and Laura were betrothed, they had to write those theology essays, right? Because meeting your future wife is a waste of time, but it's CRUCIAL TO THE MARRIAGE that you and your father-in-law have the same opinion on monergism!

[Desertrose]

3. We are not fundamentalists, but reformed.

 6. As a reader of your site has already pointed out, we do not support child marriages or child sexual activity. In fact we support sexual activity at a much later age than the government seems to desire. The government schools and other organizations charged with managing the sexual lives of our children seem to believe that our children should learn all about the joys of anal sex at five years old, and by twelve should be getting condoms out of vending machines, rolling in the sack with their partner of choice, and then (when the condoms fail) going out and murdering their children at taxpayer expense without even bothering to inform their parents.We, on the other hand, do not believe in sex until marriage, and don’t believe in marriage until the parents believe the child is ready and they have fully developed secondary sexual characteristics. We understand that they might enjoy sex before that, and even get pregnant, but we are such spoilsports that we believe that sex should wait until it is safe for the wife to get pregnant and deliver a baby

WTF. They arent fundamentalists, but reformed? yeah, reformed wack jobs. 

My kids are in public school. I realize that the Seattle area is liberal, but come on. They do not teach kids about anal sex at 5. Good grief, glad to see they are making good use of their education. 

Fucking idiots. I can not believe people buy into this garbage.

[Buzzard]

29 minutes ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

I think they'd just have it in a random campground or on someone's land, right? Most campgrounds probably aren't asking a ton of questions. 

Maybe the Duggars want to host. They're pretty desperate for attention these days!

[EyeQueue]

13 minutes ago, Desertrose said:

WTF. They arent fundamentalists, but reformed? yeah, reformed wack jobs. 

My kids are in public school. I realize that the Seattle area is liberal, but come on. They do not teach kids about anal sex at 5. Good grief, glad to see they are making good use of their education. 

Fucking idiots. I can not believe people buy into this garbage.

I had a response typed out in their comments tackling that stupid sex ed comment, but it ended up not even being worth it. It's clear from his responses to people so far that they're not going to budge on their positions, no matter how clear, 'scriptural,' or polite you are in your arguments.

So, another example of a group of people who have lived a completely different life than they expect their children to, and scare the Hell out of them by making them fear the world outside of their own little bubble.

[HarryPotterFan]

18 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Maybe the Duggars want to host. They're pretty desperate for attention these days!

They have enough land!

[foreign fundie]

Actually as for Mosaic law, if a rape took place in the field, a rapist of a betrothed girl would be stoned to death. If the 'rape' took place in the city, and the girl did not cry out (presuming consentual sex with someone other than her betrothed) she would be stoned too. If the girl was not spoken for, the rapist would be forced to pay a heavy fine and marry her and would never be allowed to divorce her. This was to protect the raped girl from a life of being single, childless and rejected by the community and having no one to provide for her after her father's death.The marriage was punishment for the rapist. He had to make amends. And in this marriage the position of the victim was much stronger than in a normal marriage, since no matter what a shitty wife she was, she was never to be abandoned. The rapist had to provide for her and her children as long as he lived. (Deuteronomy 22:25-29)

So for the man it was a punishment, for the woman it was making the best out of a very bad situation.

Also the girl's father could decide to take the money but refuse the marriage if he had a different way of providing for her. (Exodus 22:16,17)

Of course, these laws were made to protect women under circumstances very different from our own and cannot be applied now in the same way. But the principles are

1. Rape is a serious sin with serious consequences

2. The perpetrator must make ammends

3. The interests of the victim should be protected. 

The way the intetests of the victim must be protected is different today from the roughly 3000 years ago these laws were made. Because she has ways to provide for herself that rural girls in ancient Israel did not, and rape does no longer mean a woman cannot get married afterwards.

What worries me is that these extreme reformed guys return to a form of patriarchy (which did exist in some biblical times but was never advocated by the Bible as the right way) which may mean that the girls in these groups get so limited in their independence and isolated in their communities, that those ancient laws would indeed be their best option.