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Fundie Retreat to Marry Off Children ~ Vaughn Ohlman


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Hey! Had the happy thought that his snottery might backfire. Some reformed types might read his blog, say, "Free Jinger, what's that?" and start to investigate The Other Side.

They might even be like Josiah Not Duggar and begin a process that eventually leads them out of the ultra-calvinist camp... even if it takes some years to finally understand they've been sold a crock of crap labeled "righteousness".

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1 minute ago, smittykins said:

I'm reminded of the passage in On The Shores Of Silver Lake when Laura and Lena go out to get the washing, and find that the washerwoman's daughter has just gotten married. At 13.  And they're both dumbfounded.

 

While I have always suspected that Laura's portrayal of her parents was extremely, extremely sanitized, there is no doubt that she ended up with a good man, and that she had the capacity for independent thought and the ability to drive her own destiny.  I love those books. 

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7 minutes ago, QuiverDance said:

After my divorce, Daddy joked to me a couple of times that he was going to pick "the next one" for me.  He obviously did not mean this literally, but I do think there is a kernel of truth to the notion that a woman's father knows what kind of man he would want for her.  In a caring way, not in a headship way.  he offered me money on the day of my wedding not to go through with the wedding.  He offered me financial support to leave my ex when he knew that I was in trouble with him.  When he met the man I'm seeing now, he told me I'd obviously learned a thing or two.  This is true.  I have learned a lot.  And in many ways I wish I'd listened to my father before I married my ex.  

I don't think these types of fathers are necessarily ill-intentioned, but they are hella misguided, and they are blinded by their own male privilege.  Would I allow my father to choose a spouse for me?  NO.  Would I defer to his judgment if he didn't like someone I was thinking about marrying?  Given my experiences, yes.  I might.  He is a good husband.  He knows what a good husband should look like.  

 
 

I actually do agree with this. Even coming from a fundamentalist background. And even though my father and I have had a somewhat strained relationship over the years (off and on).

My father is still, at the end of the day, a good man, and he knows me probably better than anyone else other than my husband. If I were not married or were divorced, I'd want my dad's opinion on any man I were seriously interested in marrying. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to give him veto power, but I'd definitely want his opinion and would take it seriously before making any final decision. Why? Because my dad might see things in a man that love would blind me to. If a person has a good relationship with his/her parents, then I don't think it's at all bad to request and listen to their counsel when it comes to making any lifelong decision, including choosing a life partner. ymmv, of course.

 

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Oh good, he cleared up some of his terminology for us. As for the point that he's creepily obsessed with the sex lives of teenagers, that he's exercising authoritarian control over the most intimate details of his children's lives, that he's using his position as head of household to act out cruel power plays in which he springs a surprise marriage on vulnerable young people, that he thinks of women solely as housekeepers and baby-makers, that he flatly denies that human beings have the right to bodily autonomy-- he's pleading no contest to those. But the important thing is, now we know that his church is reformed, not fundamentalist.

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Physical and emotional maturity aside, how is this lifestyle of marrying off youngsters financially sustainable?  They can't all have reality TV shows, and I'm supposing their market for essential oils is getting saturated.  Do some continue to live with their parents or live hand-to-mouth existences while churning out children?  Do they ultimately have their hands out to government programs when the income won't stretch?  I can guess the answer, but wonder if getting your youngsters out of your household really means you don't have to feed and clothe them with increasingly stretched income.

If they are reading here, please don't send your money to this creepy guy who spends the majority of his time drooling thinking about pre-pubescent girls and when it's marginally fine to start having sex with them.  Really, step back and use your brains.

 

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20 minutes ago, polecat said:

I actually do agree with this. Even coming from a fundamentalist background. And even though my father and I have had a somewhat strained relationship over the years (off and on).

My father is still, at the end of the day, a good man, and he knows me probably better than anyone else other than my husband. If I were not married or were divorced, I'd want my dad's opinion on any man I were seriously interested in marrying. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to give him veto power, but I'd definitely want his opinion and would take it seriously before making any final decision. Why? Because my dad might see things in a man that love would blind me to. If a person has a good relationship with his/her parents, then I don't think it's at all bad to request and listen to their counsel when it comes to making any lifelong decision, including choosing a life partner. ymmv, of course.

 

I think there's something to be said for taking anyone who loves you (general you, not polecat specifically) opinion under consideration when choosing a life partner, not just your father. It could be a mother, sibling, friend, etc who gives you their opinion. 

But I think we can all agree that listening to the opinions of those who love us about the person we choose is vastly different than being forced to marry who your father picks. 

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7 minutes ago, HarryPotterFan said:

I think there's something to be said for taking anyone who loves you (general you, not polecat specifically) opinion under consideration when choosing a life partner, not just your father. It could be a mother, sibling, friend, etc who gives you their opinion. 

But I think we can all agree that listening to the opinions of those who love us about the person we choose is vastly different than being forced to marry who your father picks. 

Let alone someone your father picks without a shred of input from you at all to the point that you are deliberately kept from meeting your spouse until a couple of hours before you're sold to him.  Also bearing in mind that these particular fathers believe that attraction, personality, and compatibility are irrelevant, and any two Christians can be successfully married because the only thing that matters is the right statement of faith.  And bewbz.

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25 minutes ago, CTRLZero said:

Do they ultimately have their hands out to government programs when the income won't stretch? 

I rather doubt it. The hyper-reformed hyper-calvinists we used to hang with condemned -- or at the very least looked down on -- those who got government handouts.

No, the "young men" at this retreat have likely been trained in some sort of business, whether it be webpage building or bookkeeping (even working towards a CPA) or perhaps even some degreed endeavor like engineering. If they're actively looking for a wife, they're expected (in hyper-reformed, hyper-calvinist circles) to be ready to provide for a family. After all, the wife has no marketplace skills, except perhaps an Etsy store.

(But don't let her be such a creative type that her Etsy income rivals her husband's income. That's not allowed.)

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Glad he noticed our discussion and, as others have said, with any luck the shout out will lead people here to be educated on his perverted cult & its ways.

Vaughn Ohlman:  You label us as "foul-mouthed" but you're the one who advocates inspecting the bodies of girls and young women to see if their breasts are sufficiently developed to "promise enjoyment" for their husbands as part of ascertaining that they have "fully developed secondary sexual characteristics." Are you also inspecting the penis and testicles of unmarried males in order to determine if they are ready for marriage? If not, why not? Shouldn't you also be instructing your cult members followers how to gauge the development of secondary sexual characteristics in human males? How else will they know if their male offspring are ready for marriage?

BTW, judging from his FB friends, it looks like at least David Botkin thinks Vaughn Ohlman's perversions are just A-OK, as do James McDonald & Kelly (Ah the Life) Reims.

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I live in Wichita. When I was in girl scouts I went to a camp called "camp seek a walk." I have found no reference to a camp called this anymore so I'm wondering if this trafficking camp is at the same camp I went to.

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So. much. fucky. crazy. I just can't, I really can't. People really believe this shit? A girl is ready to get married because she has breasts that will be fun for her husband to play with? How are these teenage couples supposed to support themselves and their quiver? Bride price? Really?

At 20 I was a college student that did not know my head from a hole in the wall when it came to men or marriage. Heaven forbid if I had got married then.

These folks are not Christians, they follow the Old Testament only.

Barf.

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2 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

do James McDonald

Is that James of "James and Stacy McDonald"? I always get the two "James McDonald"s mixed up.

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On ‎5‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 7:56 AM, foreign fundie said:

Can you imagine the profile photo's? Same hairdo, same dress style, same adoring smile. And then they have the same favourite book (Bible) same favourite music, hobbies can be one of playing piano/ violin, baking, sewing or photography, or all of them. They have the same education, the same future plans (be a mum with a quiver), I could go on. Heck, you'd need some devine guidance to choose the right one, for how else would you know?

It would be like Name that Tune.  First girl:  I want to have 19 kids with my future husband.  Second girl: Well I want to have twenty

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This article (not the most trust-worthy publication) says there will be a marriage retreat for arranged marriages for teen girls and young men. http://www.rawstory.com/2016/05/duggar-cult-founder-plans-kansas-retreat-to-set-up-arranged-marriages-for-teen-girls/

Naturally I thought of "poor" Sarah Maxwell having to be an old man's drudge (or her father's drudge really.)

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8 minutes ago, refugee said:

Is that James of "James and Stacy McDonald"? I always get the two "James McDonald"s mixed up.

Yes, it's the James of James & Stacy McDonald who, for all their awfulness, are probably not inspecting the bodies of their unmarried children as Vaughn Ohlman recommends they do.

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6 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

Yes, the James of James & Stacy McDonald who, for all their awfulness, are probably not inspecting the bodies of their unmarried children as Vaughn Ohlman recommends they do.

No, they'll simply drive away all suitors with their multi-page potential suitor questionnaire.

ETA: I wanted to add "control freakery at its finest" but I think this match-em-and-marry-em game has that beat.

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This might actually be under discussion elsewhere, if I'm not getting mixed up. I'd hate to think there were two such retreats going on...

@happy atheist or any of the other helpmeets. Don't know if this counts for merging threads?

Oh, yeah, clicked on the link and it is the same thing. Duh. Should have done that to start. But the "Duggar cult founder" threw me off -- I never thought of the Duggars as "reformed".

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16 minutes ago, refugee said:

The hyper-reformed hyper-calvinists we used to hang with condemned -- or at the very least looked down on -- those who got government handouts.

Thanks for clarifying that.  I probably was confusing these folks with the Warren Jeffs/FLDS group (not multiple wives, but the child-bride concept).   This Ohlman cult gives me a creepy vibe. 

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This is the same one as the other thread. Vaughn Ohlman will not appreciate having to read TWO DIFFERENT THREADS to keep up with all the foul-mouthed things we're saying about him!

Weird that the Rawstory article tries to tie this mess to the Duggars when there's no relation; now Vaughn Ohlman's little "don't associate us with them, we're way crazier" huff makes more sense.

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1 hour ago, refugee said:

Hey! Had the happy thought that his snottery might backfire. Some reformed types might read his blog, say, "Free Jinger, what's that?" and start to investigate The Other Side.

They might even be like Josiah Not Duggar and begin a process that eventually leads them out of the ultra-calvinist camp... even if it takes some years to finally understand they've been sold a crock of crap labeled "righteousness".

I have been gone for a bit... what have I missed? 

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3 hours ago, Baabaablacksheep said:

I have to say, as messed up as all this is, it seems more internally consistent than those who say they value young marriage and lots of babies but then have adult "kids" living with parents well into their 30's. Did anyone else notice that in the FAQ they state that a couple commiting fornication shouldn't be punished, but rather be married? On the one hand, a loophole in that you will  able to choose someone you are attracted to! On the other hand, what about cases of coercion or rape? Can certainly see this being justification  for having someone marry their rapist.

I have absolutely zero doubt this would happen. It's 100% biblical, so why not? 

As far as allowing a parent to have a say/opinion over your future spouse, isn't that something that happens most of the time? I mean, sometimes there are unusual circumstances where people live far from their families or something, but don't most people meet and hang out with their perspective spouse's family before marriage? As per usual, fundies turn this into a black and white issue, when in reality there is a universe of middle ground between people who never even met their child's future spouse and this bullshit.

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3 hours ago, Baabaablacksheep said:

I have to say, as messed up as all this is, it seems more internally consistent than those who say they value young marriage and lots of babies but then have adult "kids" living with parents well into their 30's. Did anyone else notice that in the FAQ they state that a couple commiting fornication shouldn't be punished, but rather be married? On the one hand, a loophole in that you will  able to choose someone you are attracted to! On the other hand, what about cases of coercion or rape? Can certainly see this being justification  for having someone marry their rapist.

Um, wasn't there a discussion of the scriptural requirement of coerced marriage of rape victims in the Theonomy Reconstructionist FB group? I don't know if Vaughn was involved in the discussion, but @DomWackTroll might recall.

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It's a bit mind-boggling that Kelly Reims is friends with them. She's about as far as you can get from then in practice...

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