Fundie Retreat to Marry Off Children ~ Vaughn Ohlman

[Cleopatra7]

18 minutes ago, EyeQueue said:

So, they pay a bride price and check them for big boobiez, that their menz will get pleasure from. Do they also check their teeth?

This sounds like the purchasing of animals or slaves in a slave market.

And, yeah, as someone commented upthread girls are getting breasts at younger and younger ages, so how old is old enough, pervy old men? 9? 10? 12?

Sicko perverts.

Does the page mention the physical attributes of a "young man" ready for marriage? This is so gross, regardless of which gender is being discussed. It really is only a matter of time before we start hearing about pre-teen marriages, with an attitude like that.

[EyeQueue]

11 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

Does the page mention the physical attributes of a "young man" ready for marriage? This is so gross, regardless of which gender is being discussed. It really is only a matter of time before we start hearing about pre-teen marriages, with an attitude like that.

Not that I can tell from their FAQ. It's all focused on attributes of the "young woman." So, reading between the lines, they can marry off a 20-year-old man to a young woman who has started her period and has breasts. So, as young as like 10-12.

No--they don't directly come out and say that (I don't think) but its heavily, heavily implied.

Yeah: gross.

ETA: OK, reading a bit further into this, they do stipulate that they mean a young woman is ready when her secondary sexual characteristic development is "complete."  But that could still be hella young, especially taking into consideration that girls seem to start all of this way younger and younger than has typically been the case.

Here's where their info on all this is located: http://letthemmarry.org/faq/

[Chelio93]

6 hours ago, princessmahina said:

I'm half tempted to email and ask if a young Catholic woman is welcome. I would love to know what the response to that would be. 

Then again, I don't want those wackos to have my email address. 

Find out if we are welcome. If we are I'll pick you up at KCI.  We will swing by Maxhell to pickup the girls and road trip to Wichita.  I am married, I should qualify as a chaperone.  However, once we get there I'm dropping you off and hanging out at the nearest bar until I need to be there to sell you off to the highest bidder.

[EyeQueue]

@Cleopatra7: This might answer your question above a bit:

Quote

When the father of a believing young man of integrity, one who affirms and demonstrates their understanding of and commitment to the actual nature of a Godly marriage, comes to the father of a Godly young virgin for her hand in marriage to his son, that is enough.

So, basically zero qualifications on the male side. If the two fathers think the man is ready and the "young virgin" has her secondary sexual characteristics fully baked, they are a go for Godly marriage.

The fathers deciding between themselves is the bottom line.

[CyborgKin]

Must "consent" is the opposite of consent.

[Shiny]

The paragraph on consent is horrifying. As is the paragraph on when a girl is ready for marriage. Holy shit. Seriously, how has this lifestyle been allowed to advance in our society? I wonder really how many young girls will be married off in events like this. 

[EyeQueue]

It just continues to get more horrifying.

Quote

If there is not a young man in their church, let him look farther. Find a Christian who is willing to marry her, and she should be willing to marry him. For a woman in this situation who is beyond 30, she is almost past child bearing years—there is little time to waste. Otherwise, how can she be fruitful and multiply, serve a husband, raise a family?

If the father can't find someone near at hand, FIND SOMEONE....anyone...and if she's getting older and her biological clock is tick tick ticking away, for the LOVE OF GOD JUST FIND SOMEONE TO MARRY HER!!!!!!!!

And priorities, y'all: 1.) pump out those kids; 2.) serve a headship; 3.) focus on presumably caring for and educating her offspring.

So, not surprisingly, quantity over quality. And the woman and her desires figures not at all into this.

[Baabaablacksheep]

Ok, so when I first looked at this I thought it was the result of a lot of unmarried people in their late twenties and early thirties needing a place to meet someone - but according to their FAQ, everyone, unless you are a "eunuch" should marry by the age of 20? Whoa. What about the fact that your frontal lobe isn't even fully developed until the age of 23 and the recent study that found lowest risk of divorce for those marrying between the ages of I believe 27-31?I have never heard of this family, do they have connections to any other big names in the homeschool fundie community? 

[DomWackTroll]

“What if, just maybe, we began our romantic relationships with a solid covenant? What if we began ‘getting to know a man’ in the relationship of husband and wife? What if, like Rebekah, we were willing to leave father and mother, home and country, to marry a man we’d never met, yet whom the Lord had so clearly and providentially chosen to be your husband?”

http://www.princecharmingdiapers.com/no-neutral-ground/

She also welcomes “women above the age of 13” to her blog. WOMEN. No, Laura, those are GIRLS who should be giggling at freakin’ slumber parties, not contemplating marriages to strangers.

[chris]

Quote

Is a child only under his or her father’s jurisdiction as long as he or she is under his roof? No. We find this clearly shown in numerous Scriptural examples, laws dealing with honor and obedience owed to parents (Exodus 21:15, Exodus 21:17, Deuteronomy 21:18-21, etc.) as well as the teachings in the New Testament on the same subject (Matthew 15:3-6, Ephesians 6:1-2, etc.). Honor, respect, and obedience is owed to one’s parents regardless of one’s age or condition.

Holy crapola. Not even marriage is enough for an adult male to get out from his father according to these people. Maybe I shouldn't have signed up just for fun....

[Baabaablacksheep]

38 minutes ago, Hiddenomaha said:

Holy crapola. Not even marriage is enough for an adult male to get out from his father according to these people. Maybe I shouldn't have signed up just for fun....

So, does this mean that Daddy Vaughn is under his father's authority?

[libriatrix]

1 hour ago, Baabaablacksheep said:

according to their FAQ, everyone, unless you are a "eunuch" should marry by the age of 20? Whoa. What about the fact that your frontal lobe isn't even fully developed until the age of 23 and the recent study that found lowest risk of divorce for those marrying between the ages of I believe 27-31?I 

Oh, no worries, their fathers' frontal lobes are fully developed! Just more evidence that the fathers deciding their children will marry and then informing them of the settled decision is really the only way to go.

[EmiGirl]

I know I'm going to get down voted for this, but I think that as long as the daughters and sons truly are 100% ok with it and are actually legal adults it's fine. 

My daddy and I were super close. I would have completely trusted him to pick me a husband. No one knows me and what i need better than he did. In fact he told me once that he would've picked my husband to marry me. 

That being said, I do realize that not everyone has a relationship with her father like I did. 

[Howl]

How many of the people planning and promoting this are in marriages arranged by their fathers?  That's right.  ZERO.  They found their mates socially, fell in love (presumably) and married after an engagement.  They are inflicting this experiment on their "virgin" children without having experienced it themselves. 

They are also anticipating that these very young women will just pop out baby after baby with no problems and probably zero health insurance.  There is NO emphasis on a boy who can support a wife, let alone a bazillion little rug rats. 

[dramallama]

37 minutes ago, EmiGirl said:

I know I'm going to get down voted for this, but I think that as long as the daughters and sons truly are 100% ok with it and are actually legal adults it's fine. 

My daddy and I were super close. I would have completely trusted him to pick me a husband. No one knows me and what i need better than he did. In fact he told me once that he would've picked my husband to marry me. 

That being said, I do realize that not everyone has a relationship with her father like I did. 

None of these fathers would listen if their children objected to this.  Not that they would dare, or even think to, because they've been raised from birth to worship their fathers as gods and do as they're told lest they suffer what I suspect might be some pretty dire consequences.  So while I'm sure, if asked, that these physical "adults" would say that of course they're 100% OK with it, is that actually meaningful consent when their emotional and intellectual growth has purposefully been kept stunted to a childlike level?  This is not an agreement between rational adults that seems a little weird to outsiders but is basically harmless; this is essentially the buying and selling of human beings who have been raised without any meaningful choices or voices in their own lives; not people, but mere pawns in daddy's religiously-cloaked power trip.  

[EmiGirl]

7 minutes ago, dramallama said:

None of these fathers would listen if their children objected to this.  Not that they would dare, or even think to, because they've been raised from birth to worship their fathers as gods and do as they're told lest they suffer what I suspect might be some pretty dire consequences.  So while I'm sure, if asked, that these physical "adults" would say that of course they're 100% OK with it, is that actually meaningful consent when their emotional and intellectual growth has purposefully been kept stunted to a childlike level?  This is not an agreement between rational adults that seems a little weird to outsiders but is basically harmless; this is essentially the buying and selling of human beings who have been raised without any meaningful choices or voices in their own lives; not people, but mere pawns in daddy's religiously-cloaked power trip.  

That's why I said honestly ok with it. Obviously if they aren't emotionally adults they can't consent.

[HumbleJillyMuffin]

4 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

Does the page mention the physical attributes of a "young man" ready for marriage? This is so gross, regardless of which gender is being discussed. It really is only a matter of time before we start hearing about pre-teen marriages, with an attitude like that.

Yeah, how come we aren't hearing about a young man's fuzzy nuts or how big his balls should be before being ready to marry? Good lord. 

[libriatrix]

1 hour ago, EmiGirl said:

I know I'm going to get down voted for this, but I think that as long as the daughters and sons truly are 100% ok with it and are actually legal adults it's fine. 

My daddy and I were super close. I would have completely trusted him to pick me a husband. No one knows me and what i need better than he did. In fact he told me once that he would've picked my husband to marry me. 

That being said, I do realize that not everyone has a relationship with her father like I did. 

To me, the question is, why would a father WANT to pick out someone for his daughter (or son) to marry? I notice that even though your dad cared about you enough and knew you well enough to have picked out a great man for you, your dad DIDN'T pick out a man for you. Instead he figured you would be able to do the job yourself.

I'm fascinated by all these patriarchs who can't handle standing aside but need to be the center of every decision and every situation. They need to insert themselves into the courtship/betrothal process and become the one it all revolves around, because heaven forbid any event whatsoever should happen to their family members that they don't get to control completely!

[EyeQueue]

27 minutes ago, HumbleJillyMuffin said:

Yeah, how come we aren't hearing about a young man's fuzzy nuts or how big his balls should be before being ready to marry? Good lord. 

Good point. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Where's the talk of the Holy Rod of Manliness that the wife will take great enjoyment with? If they put boobiez as a requirement for the young ladies, where's a package of substantial size requirement for the menz?

[NachosFlandersStyle]

I would trust my dad to identify someone who had some common interests, shared my sense of humor, even roughly fit my "type," but that doesn't mean I would be attracted to that person or we would hit it off. An emotional connection isn't something you can find on a checklist. I'm the only person that can decide if I get along with another person.

Of course, the idea that marriage needs to be based on mutual attraction and chemistry isn't universal. But these fathers grew up in a culture that values the love match, presumably founded their own marriages on that principle , and then decided to reject that for their daughters simply because they wanted to create a world where wives are always subordinate. 

Vaughn's ideas are definitely extreme even among the extremists, and I don't think he is commanding some big movement of creepy daughter-selling. But if you check out his Facebook page he is friends with a lot of our usual subjects, which means that those folks aren't too disgusted by his views to keep him around.

[Snarkle]

Ugh, this guy makes courtship look appealing.  At least there's a getting-to-know-you period with that, and then engagement, and then marriage.  Yes, in many cases the "asking to court" to actual marriage dates are less than a year apart - even less than six months - but that still at least gives the courting/engaged couple time to at least discuss things, even with chaperons around.  This makes Alyssa Bates Webster's young courtship and marriage look "normal."  And this method is basically a blind date arranged by fathers (or "staff"), but with a wedding and not just dinner and a movie as the goal.

[TurtleBelly]

From the payment examples for hypothetical families: 

"The Johnson family has been seeking spouses for their four oldest children for a while. They are excited to come..."

I'll bet they are...

Sorry, couldn't help myself. 

[ladyamylynn]

8 hours ago, NachosFlandersStyle said:

It also appears that Laura has a brand new blog. princecharmingdiapers.com

Just wondering after looking at Laura's Facebook... Has anyone ever actually seen Josh Ohlman during a full moon?

[EyeQueue]

18 minutes ago, ladyamylynn said:

Just wondering after looking at Laura's Facebook... Has anyone ever actually seen Josh Ohlman during a full moon?

But, on a more serious, and terrifying, note:

Quote

Betrothed to my amazing man on August 23rd, only two hours after meeting him. Best thing that's ever happened to me!

ETA: Actually, her blog clarifies: they met two hours before they exchanged wedding vows.

Did I misunderstand how the FAQ on the marriage conference defines "betrothal"? Dayum.

[foreign fundie]

After reading this, the Duggars seem suddenly completely harmless.

Or... what if the show gets dropped, JB turns more fundie, and he signs up for this meat market with his army of kiddults. After all, he likes to bargain. He can negotiate a good price for his girls, and get a few cheap girls for his boys. After all, if you can sell a car.... 

Now, that would get some ratings.... (and hopefully jail time)