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Amy Jordan Duggar Jordan Duggar King Duggar Wedding Part 4 AKA Amy and Dillon King


samurai_sarah

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On Mon Feb 20 2017 at 4:26 PM, SweetFellowshipper said:

Yeah. It's just difficult for me to even *imagine* them having a slight disagreement with each other, though I'm sure maybe they do... They're so programmed, it must be easy in some ways. Your spouse fills a gendered role and you have exactly equivalent values and beliefs. As long as they fulfill that role, there's not much beyond everyday quibbles to argue about. 

My husband and I have argued about politics or about us wanting different things or ways of relating, etc. They're taught to be so robotic about everything that I can't imagine either one of them stubbornly insisting on something they really want that differs from what their spouse wants. 

I can actually see Jessa and Ben arguing in a real way. And Whitney & Zach. Alyssa & John maybe in a fundie sort of way. 

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3 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

I agree to an extent. I always try to believe the victim because alleging abuse of any kind is so scary and - at times - dangerous. 

With Amy, I'm torn. I want to give her the benefit of the doubt - but it sounds like she's been making a lot of contradictory statements on the show and on her social media. I can see how that and her choice to reveal the abuse via a reality show could undermine her credibility with people. I'm personally not going to judge her for the reality show because we can't know for sure whether or not she actually sought private counseling previously or not. And while her motives for going public are suspect, it's also possible that she honestly revealed it because it's true and was causing issues in her marriage.

So... that's a long way of saying I won't judge but I understand why others might. :pb_lol:

I don't think the contradictory statements are all that surprising. I'm a Degreed Mental Health Professional(TM), and her behavior is very typical of an adult with childhood trauma who has chosen to bury it rather than deal with it. I often tell the people I work with that burying trauma and trauma-related feelings is like trying to hold a beach ball underwater with your feet while you're in a pool. No matter how good of a grip you think you have on it, it always comes rocketing to the surface. People who bury trauma like that tend to have an array of entrenched defense mechanisms, especially denial, compartmentalization, reaction formation, and repression, which is why they can say things like, "I had a wonderful childhood" on a good day and be weeping about witnessing a parent beating the other one on a bad day. A lot of that stuff starts out as survival skills when they're children, so it runs really deep. When they start therapy, it's often like a dam breaking as all of the traumatic memories and negative cognitions come tumbling out, with the defense mechanisms scrambling to keep up.

I honestly feel really badly for Amy. I hope that she has a positive enough experience with this show to where she'll continue with therapy and work out some of these issues. 

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@JesusCampSongs, absolutely. Some days I feel I had a great childhood. Other days I remember all the abuse and it's awful. Other days it's both. 

People who haven't been severely traumatized must have a hard time understanding this...But unless you were in some kind of black and white Elizabeth Smart situation or a feral kid locked in an attic, you did have plenty of good moments with your parents or whatever abusers. I was afraid a large amount of the time. I also felt joy, closeness, boredom and brattiness. They did everything for me, even spoiled me. I was also severely abused. That's partly what makes it such a mindfuck. Was I choked, yes. Was I told I was hated, yes. Was I also taken to theme parks and fawned over, yes. Abusers aren't Mommie Dearest caricatures. They're human beings who were often abused themselves. 

When I tell people about the abuse they usually are incredulous and begin to hate my mom. My husband will ask why I speak to her. Then I wind up defending her like Amy is doing, and even backtracking. "Well she's not THAT bad." "OK, did you lie about the things she did?" "Well, no, but..." 

It's the nature of the beast. 

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8 hours ago, Karma said:

Was she copping a lot of flak on her Instagram?  She's made it private again...

I saw her getting into it with Pickles yesterday. Maybe that's why.

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Sorry I'm late it's been a long week.  Here we go with the shit show.

Amy checks in with the mob wife.  It's obvious that Amy and Dillon really bonded with Rene.

Today's drill is being split into groups by sex.  They are going to work on blaming themselves, forgiving themselves, and self-reflection.  They need to write down all of the things they don't like about themselves.

Amy wrote down rebel Duggar and said she hates being labeled as that, being judged like that really wears on you, she points out the differences is she listens to music and wears pants. 

Dillon wrote down impatient and that's when the tone comes out, he is misunderstood so he comes off as an arrogant prick, 

They are going to put their pictures on a football sled and they have to move it into the self-acceptance zone.  Amy lets us know she dated some linebackers back in the day.  They have to scream out what they hate about themselves and they are timing it.  

Dillon yells out that he hates he can't emotionally connect, that he's misunderstood, he hates his tone, he hates that he's too logical.

Amy yells out that she hates being a rebel Duggar, I don't like to be judged, she hates being labeled, someone yelled to her when Dillion says she's irresponsible.

They both made it across the line in time.  One of the guys called Dillon a wuss in a TH because he didn't want to get hurt. 

Amy brings up that Joe (mob wives) blew a kiss at her last night.  In a TH one of the girls says it was a cry for attention, she's sure it was harmless. The couple has a fight about it.  Joe asked Amy about when they came out of their room, the gf is telling them to end the conversation.  Now the gf is ripping Amy because Amy didn't tell her that Dillon was standing there when the blow kiss thing happened.  Now Amy is yelling, the mob wife tells Amy maybe she doesn't have the common sense to know not to saying something like that.  Amy leaves yelling get out of my fucking way.  Dillon looks at everyone in the kitchen and says "Now I have to go deal with that"  Amy tells him she doesn't want to cause drama and she didn't know he saw it.  In a TH Dillon tells her that she was blowing it out of proportion.  In "real time" Dillion asks if she sees the other persons side Amy responds with Ok your right I'm wrong. (Shades of Jill) Amy says she's done lets just go eat.

Time for another drill.  They have to burn the self loathing so they can forgive themselves and understand their partner.  They are sharing what they have on the pictures with each other. Amy added she has an attitude.  She told him he is her whole world. 

Time for the judge she tells Dillon and Amy about his list and tells Amy to let go of the Duggar thing.

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@SweetFellowshipper @JesusCampSongs thank-you and yes x1000.

I was severely abused as a child, and even now after years away and loads of counselling, my childhood is a grey zone - esp. with my mother. I know that she went through a lot of abuse herself, and I think that most of the time, she did her best. The reality was, most of the time, her best wasn't good enough.

Also, the compartmentalization and repression can be so intense (this has been my experience anyway) that memories can appear and disappear then bobble back up to the surface again. It's confusing and makes explaining events in a linear or coherent fashion or providing consistent accounts of events extremely difficult.

I don't know what Amy experienced as a child, but it sounds like she's had some trauma. Whether she chooses to regard her father as an abuser vs. the perpetrator of an abusive incident is her choice. We are each free to agree or disagree, but ultimately it's Amy's life and how she wants to process it is up to her.

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Exactly @Kittikatz. My mom absolutely loves me. We have many good memories together and she does a lot for me. She also psychologically tortured me and made my life hell for long patches of time in ways that other people are horrified by. It's just not either/or. I love her and I also resent and sometimes hate her. If someone chooses to view their abuser that way it's up to them. If they don't, it's also up to them. I find I do better psychologically when I accept the contradictory parts of the narrative and say "OK. That's just how it is. It doesn't make sense for both of these things to be true and that's OK."

 

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There's also the issue that a lot of people who have had bad things happen to them don't see themselves as abused because "abuse" means things like sexual assault to them.  So for Amy, she could have been picked up by the throat by her father, but not see herself as an abused child, legitimately, without there being a disconnect for her.

This is a super-common thing to happen - people whose partners might, I don't know, slap them, for example - or not touch them, but use really awful language to them - but they don't see themselves in a domestic violence situation because it's not as bad as things they've seen/read about etc.  "S/he's not abusive, s/he's never left marks/it only happens occasionally/s/he's never hit me" and so on.

 

 

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OK here we go, tonight and next week and we are done.  They are doing a lie detector and a hall pass tonight.  I see lots of trainwrecks in my future.

Amy is talking to some of the others about parenthood.  She says she doesn't like change and she bawled her eyes out having to take a pregnancy test.  In a TH she says she is petrified of having a baby but maybe could handle it if knocked out during labor.  She's got a nervous giggle when she tells the others she's not sure it's normal to be this scared of having a kid. She leaves the area everyone else is in and Dillon goes with the try to calm her down.  She tells him she's scared out of her mind.  He tells her it's OK and they'll have some one day and she says he's fine with because he won't have to deal with them all day.  

The judge is coming out now.  She tells them that today is lie detector day.  Dillon's question is "Do you want a family or not?"  The judge's question (based off of Dillon's) is "Are you afraid to bring a child into the family?" Amy doesn't know what she would ask Dillon. The judge's question for Dillon is "Do you truly believe this marriage is going to last?" 

Amy is up first but they don't show us how she answered.  They don't show us Dillon's answer either.  The doctors and the judge are talking with the proctors.  Amy and Dillon's proctor said she was very sweet and personable but something didn't feel right.  She says Dillon wants to have a good marriage and he wants to try.

Time for the reveal of how they answered. Amy answered no and deception was indicated.  Dillion answered yes and deception was indicated.  Amy moved away from him on the couch.  The judge tells them the answer isn't the main issue but how they deal with it.  Amy says there's some space on the couch now and they will have a little chit chat later. Dillon looks ill.  The doctors explain the hall pass and they get to go out on opposite sides of town and think about if they want to stay together or split up.  They have to place their rings in boxes.  Dillon is pissed.  He says it's bullshit and his angry about it.  They won't see their partners again tonight.

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Had to split the post tonight.  

The couples head back to their rooms to get ready.  Amy asks Dillion if her seriously thinks their marriage won't last.  He tells her he does think it will but not to go off on him because her's came back she didn't want a family with him. He asks her is that true and she says this is bullshit. She walks away and he reaches for her and says come here. She tells him no and not to grab at her.  He asks her to sit down on the bed.  In a TH he says the results that they got back aren't something he wants to sit on by themselves.  In the room he tells her he doesn't want to go out tonight and Amy tells him welp you have a free pass.  Back to TH he says going out might sound fun but there is a serious talk that they need to do.  Amy gets off the bed and tells him not to grab her like that.  I didn't see him grab her or anything other than when she went to walk away at the start.  He stayed fairly calm while Amy was pretty upset. 

They are headed out.  Amy does a little pole dancing on the party bus.  One of the guys found out he may not be the biological father of his child and Dillon said, "If I were you I'd drink and have a good time with any girl in the club that would go down on my shit/dick (it was bleeped). 

The guys are doing a ton of shots.  They are trying to root on the guy who is hurt.  The girls weren't shown much, they said they had fun.  They are chatting in the kitchen eating pizza.  I think Dillon is encouraging the "hurt guy" to talk to his girlfriend, don't hold back.   OMG there's a huge fight involving "hurt guy" and his girlfriend.   Stuff got thrown the whole house was trying to split them up but Dillon and Amy were MIA.  Found them, they were hiding in a corner watching it all.  They end with the cops being called.

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Just bumping this up so I can find it when I start the shit show in a little bit.  This is our last episode and we will find out if they split and have been lying to us or if they are still together.

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Here we go, the voiceover says it's the end of 10 long grueling days and all I can think is it feels like I've been watching this for 10 months.

But first we get to see the end of the fight last week.  The cops showed up to talk with mob boyfriend and that's it.  The docs review the tape of the fights.  

It looks like the girls had a slumber party in one room and the boys in another room.  

Amy is wearing a peak-a-boo shoulder shirt from 1995.  Just FYI. 

The judge is out to talk to them before they make decide. She tells Amy & Dillion that marriage is about two people with very different skill sets coming together.  She tells Dill Amy should feel elevated in his presence and she tells Amy she doesn't get to pull the rug out from under him just because they are arguing. They show us the raped quote again.                                                                                                                                                                              They won't see each other again until the commitment ceremony.   

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Getting ready for the ring ceremony.  Amy says the judge asked her if she would be OK if Dillon talked down to her for the rest of her life.  In TH she says she's worried that Dillon has more reservations than he lets her know.  They cut to Dillon talking to the guys and he says in the house he's got them to say something about his tone. He says if he does have a tone she still needs to watch her attitude.  JP (Bachelorette) said based on the lie detector results do you think and Dillon says it's based on right now.  One of the other guys said they both lied and they both need to stop trying to be perfect.

They are all dressed up for the ceremony and Dillon has a tie bar on.  I'm so shocked, I didn't know guys wore those.  

Finally time for Amy & Dillon.  Amy tells him he's her best friend but he lacks empathy, his tone, and the lie detector results threw her for a loop. He says he's known her for a long, long time and even though they have found faults he feels he knows her on a deeper level now but he doesn't know if she really doesn't want a family or not. Amy's ring is in his box and his ring isn't in her box.  She pulls the ring out of her cleavage and says she has never doubted him.  He said thank god I'm about to freak out.  In a TH she says she is going to try to be kinder to him. 

The mob wife left her man and Amy cheered.  Amy was the first one to greet her with a big hug.  At the end everyone is doing a champagne toast but Dillon, he's got a sniffer which is usually used for brandy or whiskey.  Just another FYI.

In the "recap" for them it says:

Dillon continues the daily battle of watching his tone...

And Amy took his suggestion of doing more adulting to heart ...

She still take care of the household and the cats, and just opened her first online store...

"a comfy, chic line for your lazy days"

And that's the end of this trainwreck. 

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2 hours ago, Inky said:

Well, thank you for watching so I didn't have to!

You are welcome.  I won't know what to do on Friday nights now that it is over.

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Oh PLEASE I hope they don't divorce. The Duggars already think their way is the best to find a spouse. Amy has to prove them wrong!

 

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Oh I think there's enough divorces, broken courtships, and broken engagements in fundie-land to take some of the heat off Amy, if that did happen. At least I hope so. 

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Well, that was an entertaining little saga to watch, via @grandmadugger, of course. Thanks!

I wonder what's next for Amy. I also wonder if any of the other Duggars will mention anything about all of this... abuse allegations, drinking, cursing, and all. Please feel free to correct me if any of them already have.

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I'm interested to see what the rest of the family thinks but something tells me this whole thing had Grandma Mary's approval.  Does Amy still have her social media on lockdown? 

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51 minutes ago, grandmadugger said:

I'm interested to see what the rest of the family thinks but something tells me this whole thing had Grandma Mary's approval.  Does Amy still have her social media on lockdown? 

No, it's public again. In fact, Amy posted a picture with Jordyn just yesterday. First picture with a Duggar cousin in quite a while, if I'm not mistaken. Though I don't know if it's really a new photo of course.

 

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Oh the mental hoops this woman has to put herself through.  I don't wanna be a Duggar, I want a paycheck I'm the rebel Duggar, don't call me the Rebel Duggar!

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it's an old pic and she's giving the illusion that she's still allowed in  the TTH.

lol. oh, amy.

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