Jahi McMath 3: Issued Second Death Certificate and Will Finally Be Allowed to Rest

[CrazyLurkerLady]

The videos the mother is posting are ridiculous. That breathing one proves NOTHING. She's on a breathing machine, so of course breathing is happening. The reason she's showing the machine instead of the body is because if we see the body we will see the breathing machine working exactly in time with every single breath. Show us a video of Jahi with no breathing tube in her neck breathing on her own and then we'll talk!

[Toothfairy]

3 years later and this is still going on

[melon]

On 4/25/2016 at 5:07 PM, Eternalbluepearl said:

How long does Jahi's mom plan to have her on the machines? Wouldn't the loving thing be to let Jahi go? 

Yes,it would.As a mother whose child had a traumatic brain injury,that is what we did.

I did not want to lose him.But he would never be the same never have a normal life,and in a sense,he was already "gone" from the injuries he sustained in a car accident...being ejected from a vehicle traveling 70 miles an hour..and then hitting his head...it was horrible.

I will always miss him.Not a single day goes by that I do not think of him/But I knew,I would not have wanted to remain in the state he was in..bedridden on a vent....so we chose to let our son go...within 6 days of the accident.

[unsafetydancer]

@melon gosh that's awful. Sorry to hear you went through that, it sounds like a horrible decision to have to make.

[melon]

Thank you, unsafetydancer. It was very hard..for awhile I cried everyday.I cried when I had to call the morgue,and when I went to the mortuary.At first,I could not talk about it.

He was 26,and it has been 5years.He was my youngest son.And losing him and making the decision to honor his wishes was very difficult.

I think losing my child is the hardest thing I have ever faced.

[Mercer]

I'm sorry for your loss. I feel that you made the right choice given the situation.

[Jug Band Baby]

@melon, thank you for putting your son first.  Parenting isn't easy, and sometimes what we want for ourselves isn't the best for our children, but you showed him true love by putting his needs ahead of your wants.  I'm so sorry for the loss your family and his friends have suffered.

[send*the*ferrets]

@melon I am sorry for your loss. I can't imagine. 

 

I have seen several people go through the stages of dying- it's terrible and I don't understand how her mother is allowing this limbo. 

[PennySycamore]

I am so very sorry for the loss of your son, @melon.  None of us should have to bury a child.  {{{Hugs}}}

[melon]

Thanks,Penny,send the ferrets and Jug Band Baby for all of your kind words!

And thank you ,Mercer.

 

[SuchABlessing]

I truly think Jahi's parents are dealing with a huge amount of denial and are very uneducated in terms of the stages of death and dying. They see her hand move and take that as a sign that she's trying to communicate and that fuels their whole fight to keep her "alive". They don't understand about muscle twitches and how common they are for these types of patients and that it's just a nerve misfiring, not a conscious effort to move on the patient's part. 

[nelliebelle1197]

On 3/17/2017 at 8:42 PM, melon said:

Thank you, unsafetydancer. It was very hard..for awhile I cried everyday.I cried when I had to call the morgue,and when I went to the mortuary.At first,I could not talk about it.

He was 26,and it has been 5years.He was my youngest son.And losing him and making the decision to honor his wishes was very difficult.

I think losing my child is the hardest thing I have ever faced.

But it made you a good mother.

[Shadoewolf]

The thing is, you WANT a sign. Something, anything that tells you that they're still with you and fighting but trapped inside themself.  That you aren't giving up on them. My mom was already comatose and on a vent when my family arrived 36 hours after she was rushed to the ER. (Multiple organ failure from acute pancreatitis). Her GCS scores were rarely ever above a 3. But there was one day, when the labs finally came back "normal" and she'd been weaned off the propofol for a few days, when we thought there was hope. I was talking to my brother about something and had my hand on her leg when it moved. Being in the medical field I attibuted it to reflexes and nerve damage. Until she did it a few more times. We'd already been deliberating on whether to pull her life support (no advance directives) so I was in tears, begging, pleading with her to give me something. Some way for me to know what was right, what to do. I didn't move from that spot for 2 hours, but she didn't respond to any verbal cues, and her GCS stayed the same. Small town Florida hospital that didn't have a portable CT and she was too delicate to move so we never knew if she had neurological damage.  Being the oldest, pulling support fell on me and I agonized over doing it. What if she was still in there? Was I killing her? Would she think I was giving up? Would she forgive me? Or worse, could I forgive myself? In the end it was the right thing but I can understand how those thoughts and doubts can nearly eat you alive. Honestly, sometimes they still do.

[Jug Band Baby]

Let's say you or I was Jahi, and it's 3 years of being trapped in a body and we're conscious, despite the medical evidence.  Let's pretend the tests are wrong and that a lack of brain activity means nothing.  Still alive.  Still able to think.

Which would be the nightmare?

A) Being trapped, unable to communicate, express discomfort, eat, go out and do fun stuff, other people having to take care of your private parts for you, you can't ask for your favorite music or say you don't like something, can't ask for more information about something you're overhearing, can't ask for a hug or give a hug, no chance for a romance, no books, nothing.  You're all alone and all you can experience are what others do TO you since they can't do things WITH you.

or 

B)Your family decides that the loving thing to do is to end your misery and let you go peacefully so you aren't trapped in your own private hell anymore.

B isn't giving up on someone.  It's letting them be at peace when the hell they're living (if you believe they're living) would be too awful.

[unsafetydancer]

@Jug Band Baby THIS! I have literal nightmares where I am paralysed and unable to let anyone know how I feel or what I want so the thought that the poor kid might, somehow, be aware terrifies me.

[Caribou]

Exactly @Jug Band Baby. I'm an only child and was faced with a "pull the plug" decision on my dear, beloved father 15 years ago. He was the last remaining grandparent to our 2 young children and I was so close to him, it still causes me deep grief to think about it. The condition that led to his death was sudden, unexpected and devastating. He endured a 13 hour emergency  surgery and just never woke up. I could have insisted he be kept on life support indefinitely, but, to what end? He was a vibrant, active, loving and involved man. To maintain him as a shell of his former self was something I simply couldn't endure. It took me 2 days to come to peace with my decision and, as hard as it was letting him go, I know in my heart it was the best and only decision. 

[Jug Band Baby]

Martin Pistorius was in a coma for more than a decade.  He has a book called Ghost Boy.  I remember listening to the NPR program he was on:

Quote

“Everyone was so used to me not being there that they didn’t notice when I began to be present again,” he told the radio program. “The stark reality hit me that I was going to spend the rest of my life like that — totally alone.”

Trapped in his body and incapable of moving or communicating with those around him, he said he felt “doomed.”

“You don’t really think about anything,” Pistorius said. “You simply exist. It’s a very dark place to find yourself because, in a sense, you are allowing yourself to vanish.”

http://ktla.com/2015/01/13/man-awakens-from-12-year-coma-says-he-was-trapped-in-his-body-and-aware-of-everything/

Those are the words of a man who lived what Jahi's family believes they're making her live through, only unlike Martin's mother (who did wish he'd die so he couldn't suffer longer), Jahi's family can end this.  It's selfishness on their part to continue keeping her on what is literally corpse support.  Either they know what it is and as draining resources, or they think she's alive and (let's say they're right, against all medical doctors who've examined her) are trying to keep her in a position of being trapped in a dark place.  I have run out of sympathy for them at this point, and can't even care that that sounds heartless.  They need to treat her with dignity.  It's past time.  She's owed dignity.

[Gobbles]

Quote

Let's say you or I was Jahi, and it's 3 years of being trapped in a body and we're conscious, despite the medical evidence.  Let's pretend the tests are wrong and that a lack of brain activity means nothing.  Still alive.  Still able to think.

Which would be the nightmare?

Actually I read a study where they asked locked-in patients about life quality and they responded surprisingly positive.

Let me google...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/01/31/locked-in-patients-tell-doctors-happy-computer-reads-thoughts/ (Not what I was looking for, but also quite interesting.)

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/738094 (That is the study.)

Personally: I want to be kept alive as along as I have relatives living. That is what I told my family. So I want life support at all costs if I'm not brain dead. But I guess everyone is different. A live in wheelchair (or any other kind of disability) is nothing that scares me. I think it is important to talk with your family about such things so that they know what you want. If you know that your son/daughter/ect. is against life support at all costs you might feel better if you have to make such a decision.

--> Not commenting on that girls case. Just a general comment. I haven't read enough about it to make up my opinion.

[melon]

 My father's situation was different.

Four years ago,my father went to the hospital.He had pneumonia.He also had congestive heart failure.They found out that he had COPD,even though he had quit smoking 25 years earlier,I guess the damage was done.Also,his kidneys began to fail.My father was 82 years old,and like the doctors said,he had lived a life.He was aware,he had no signs of dementia.I live in SC.My three brothers,and my parents,too,before they died,live/lived in OH.

It was so hard to watch him struggle to breathe.They tried everything.They eventually put him on a vent.I had a flood of memories of my son's time in ICU,on a vent.But my father was aware of it...I assume because of the gag reflex...he was gagging.

My younger brother insisted that every effort be made to keep my father alive.My brother was unsupportive of my decision to let my son go.He claimed the medical staff was lying.That I needed to pray for a miracle.My son had irreversible brain damage,after a few days,he was brain-dead.There was nothing that could be done.He wasn't coming back.

After a week,one of my brothers called and told me that my father had conveyed his wish to be removed from the vent.He was miserable on it.The quality of his life was beyond poor...he had nothing he could enjoy,like his coffee,his reading or talking.My brother called the next day and told me that my father's nurse called my younger brother....and said he had been an ICU nurse for 30 years,and knew what to expect when death is imminent.He told him the family needed to come.They went and they were there when he passed away.His heart stopped,they never got to take him off of the vent.

It took me and my husband a few days to come to our decision about our son,too.I struggled with it.Asked the doctors about it.

The day he was declared brain dead.We had made arrangements for organ donation.My son was an organ donor.My husband got so upset,he had to be taken to the ER.They were afraid he was having a heart attack.I stayed with him ,overnight,in the ER.It was anxiety.I get a call from my son's doctor.He said he had to talk to me about my son.He said my son had move his legs and over-breathed on his vent.They tried taking him off of it....within 15 minutes,he needed it,but by law,they could not harvest his organs as planned.

His respiratory specialist told me a few days later,she was having to give him more and more oxygen.

We know we made the right decision,and that it is what our son would have wanted.

[Shadoewolf]

My mom was already disabled before this happened. She'd had brain aneurysms and a stroke when I was a toddler. It left her with partial paralysis that she quit going to therapy for. She lost her drivers license 4 years ago due to vision issues that couldn't be corrected. Neighbors and friends said she'd become very reclusive, and she told many of them she was ready to die.  She was admitted early in the am on the 3rd of the month. I got there the night of the 4th. By the 7th her labs were "normal" with constant dialysis and she'd been off the sedation for 48 hours. She still wouldn't wake up, and wouldn't respond to cues. We (my brother and uncle and I) knew she wouldn't want to be back in a wheelchair or have to live in assisted living, and her doctors told us that IF she even recovered, that both of those would happen. She would require dialysis 4 days a week for the rest of her life, she'd be chair bound and require constant care. We knew she'd hate that, that having no quality of life was worse than death to her. On the afternoon of the 8th, we made the choice, and she passed just after midnight on the 9th. She never woke up, her pupils sluggish and reflexes were sporadic at best over the 5 days. We knew it was right, but I really struggled (and still do sometimes).

[LaLele]

On 4/10/2017 at 7:34 AM, Gobbles said:

Actually I read a study where they asked locked-in patients about life quality and they responded surprisingly positive.

Let me google...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/01/31/locked-in-patients-tell-doctors-happy-computer-reads-thoughts/ (Not what I was looking for, but also quite interesting.)

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/738094 (That is the study.)

Personally: I want to be kept alive as along as I have relatives living. That is what I told my family. So I want life support at all costs if I'm not brain dead. But I guess everyone is different. A live in wheelchair (or any other kind of disability) is nothing that scares me. I think it is important to talk with your family about such things so that they know what you want. If you know that your son/daughter/ect. is against life support at all costs you might feel better if you have to make such a decision.

--> Not commenting on that girls case. Just a general comment. I haven't read enough about it to make up my opinion.

Locked-in syndrome is totally and completely different than brain death.   Locked-in patients have suffered a pons stroke that takes out the majority of their cranial nerves.  They retain eye movement and some if not all cognitive function.  

Brain death is completely different and involves a complete loss of brain function.  Cognition and any voluntary movement are not possible with brain death.  

I have not read Jahi's medical records, but I would very sincerely doubt she has locked-in syndrome.  

[Jug Band Baby]

On 4/10/2017 at 5:34 AM, Gobbles said:

Personally: I want to be kept alive as along as I have relatives living. That is what I told my family. So I want life support at all costs if I'm not brain dead. But I guess everyone is different. A live in wheelchair (or any other kind of disability) is nothing that scares me.

We're not talking about a life in a wheelchair, but of being a vegetable in a bed draining medical resources.  

I would not want to be kept alive with such a bleak outlook because it's selfish.  That bed and that money (millions of dollars easily) and those machines could go to saving someone with a chance, AND - this is even more important - I could not be selfish enough to demand that my family have to go through watching me in a bed for years and having to decide if they should come visit me as often as if I was really living or enduring the guilt of abandoning me.  Where is the benefit for literally anyone else to keep me as a vegetable?  Anyone at all?  

I hope you rethink what you're asking of your relatives.  I think it's really cruel to demand they be put in the position of visiting someone so far gone or of dealing with the guilt of abandoning someone.  That's just awful.

[cindyluvs24]

My mother had COPD and went into a sub acute rehab after a hospital stay.  After 9 days there she developed skin ulcers and a UTI.  (For anyone interested its The Gateway Care Center in Eatontown , NJ - Orthodox owned and they should be ashamed of the way they operate that place)     After 2 weeks in the hospital she went to another sub acute.  The care there wasn't much better and she lost even more weight.  They discharged her when she couldn't do the therapy. ( GenesisCare in Cranbury , NJ )   She was so thin (cachexis) really horrible to watch - the body literally eats itself. After 3 weeks at home with a live in and hospice care she passed.  The day she came home I had the visiting nurse service meet us at her house.  The nurse took a look at her and said to me "We need to talk."   I didn't know because the doctor at the rehab never returned my calls.  I thought she looked thinner but I was waiting for them to talk to me about it.  By now my mother was totally out of it  I had set up appointments with a geriatrician, etc. but the visiting nurse (who had been assigned to my mother after previous hospital stays)   told me that she was a textbook hospice case.  I'm an only child and my mother had a very clear Advance Health Directive.  Signing those goddamn forms was incredibly hard.  

[AmazonGrace]

http://www.docbastard.net/2017/04/jahi-mcmath-update.html

According to this , everything in Jahi's medical records from the NJ hospital is consistent with brain death and that she had an evoked potentials study done that showed she had no brain response to sound. Not surprising but I'm sure it won't stop people from saying praise Jesus Jahi is alive.

[Jug Band Baby]

I'm getting really close to thinking her mother needs to be hauled into a mental health facility if she really thinks Jahi is alive.  I'm really not sure she's in a sane mind, and I'm not making light of mental illness.  She needs to be declared incompetent, put into therapy, Jahi buried or cremated, and Jahi's siblings allowed to move on.