Armed Protesters take over Oregon Federal Wildlife Refuge Part 2

[Howl]

Well, we're still in the post mortem mounrning period, but I've been reading over at Talking Points Memo and came across this article: 

Anti-Gov't Activists See Vindication In Acquittal Of Oregon Occupiers 

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/militia-groups-celebrate-acquittal-oregon-occupiers

Well, that's hardly surprising.  The holy guacamole moment came with this: 

Quote

“In the big picture, they’re right,” Stewart Rhodes [of Oath Keepers militia group] said of the occupiers in a Friday phone call. “Western lands are being stolen from the American people. It’s not just white ranchers, it’s also the Native Americans too. It’s happening right now at the pipeline. So it’s the entire west.”

The ongoing protest over the construction of the Dakota Access Pipeline (DAPL), which has been carried out largely by Native Americans and environmental activists, appears to be an unlikely new draw for militia members. Rhodes said he’s heard from "plenty of guys who have expressed interest in going up there," as has at least one of the acquitted Oregon occupiers.

Leaving the federal courthouse in Portland on Thursday to greet a boisterous, tearful crowd of supporters bearing American flags and pocket Constitutions, David Fry, the designated videographer for the makeshift militia, hinted he may head to North Dakota next.

“I might be traveling after this,” Fry said in video captured by Facebook user Dory Dae, when asked if he would join the pipeline protest. “I mean, there’s more federal buildings that need to be occupied" (the clashes between DAPL protesters and police this week that resulted in over 100 arrests took place on private land maintained by the Army Corps of Engineers).

In another video taken by Facebook user John Lamb, Fry again suggested that the U.S. brace for future actions like the armed takeover of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge, which began in January and lasted 41 days.

“You helped us win this battle,” Fry said to the group of supporters embracing outside the courthouse. “But there are a lot more to win.”

Just hope Fry stays on his medications and doesn't end up being killed.    

Edited October 31, 2016 by Howl

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

4 hours ago, Howl said:

Just hope Fry stays on his medications and doesn't end up being killed.    

Seriously! The kid needs to live quietly on his meds for awhile and make some good habits!

Edited November 1, 2016 by WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?
left out word

[Howl]

9 minutes ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

Seriously! The kid needs to live quietly on his meds for awhile and make some good habits!

I know, right?  Live a peaceful life in some bucolic place, plant a garden and watch the sun rise and set every day over a beautiful lake.  

Also, the last thing the pipeline protesters need is a bunch of heavily armed lunatics with itchy fingers  and  pocket constitutions forming Committees of Safety and spouting crap.  I'd imagine they'd not be too welcome. 

[church_of_dog]

4 hours ago, Howl said:

Western lands are being stolen from the American people. It’s not just white ranchers, it’s also the Native Americans too.

How is it even possible to make the interpretation that Native Americans. are Stealing.  Lands. from the American. people!?!?!?!               

Note:  Howl didn't say the above, it was simply quoted within Howl's post -- the quote is from the talkingpointsmemo article.

[Howl]

I believe the meaning of the quote by Stuart Rhodes is that the government is stealing land from everyone, including Native people.  

If you want to drop in on the crazy that is Oath Keepers and Stuart Rhodes, you can go to oathkeepers.org

Sounds like they are the only people prepared to hold off  the rigged election. And they also are offering a Webinar about how to deal with post-election melt down, when anarchy rules and the entire country goes up in flames.  Of course, they don't mention that idea of post-election unrest is promoted by them. 

Quote

Please join us on Thursday, November 3rd, 2016 at 8:00 PM Central Time for this free webinar hosted by Oath Keepers. We will be discussing post election civil unrest & terrorism scenarios and how to prepare for it. This is a non-partisan presentation, unrelated to the candidates themselves. This will be an in-depth presentation on how to prepare for possible unrest or terrorism in urban and suburban areas and how to make an emergency plan for your family. We’ll discuss how to prepare to shelter in place and minimize the danger of arson and home invasion, including neighborhood security and defense, contingency plans (Plan B, C, D) as well as what you need to do to safely get out of town if need be. Be ready before anything happens.

 

Edited November 1, 2016 by Howl

[church_of_dog]

12 hours ago, Howl said:

I believe the meaning of the quote by Stuart Rhodes is that the government is stealing land from everyone, including Native people.  

If you want to drop in on the crazy that is Oath Keepers and Stuart Rhodes, you can go to oathkeepers.org

Sounds like they are the only people prepared to hold off  the rigged election. And they also are offering a Webinar about how to deal with post-election melt down, when anarchy rules and the entire country goes up in flames.  Of course, they don't mention that idea of post-election unrest is promoted by them. 

 

You're right, I read it too fast.  Oops!  Guess that shows the kind of irrationality I seem to be expecting from them!  I could actually see how the government is stealing land from Native Americans in various situations, but not the white ranchers etc.

I remember reading about oathkeepers a while ago.  I'm all for the being-prepared stuff, but not their politics nor the fanning the flames rhetoric.

[Howl]

26 minutes ago, church_of_dog said:

 I could actually see how the government is stealing land from Native Americans in various situations, but not the white ranchers etc.

yeah, they want us to see white ranchers as victims of the government, just as Native Americans were victims of broken treaties and land appropriations by white settlers.  Disgusting. 

[47of74]

Next time these shit gibbon fucknut supporters seize Federal property the FBI, National Guard, state police, sheriff, local police, ATF, etc need to respond with all speed and firepower at their command to evict these idiots.

[Howl]

Yeah, I don't think they have any intention of being played again.  I do have a fear of a hung jury or an acquittal in Nevada. 

However, if there is another armed standoff and one or more of the occupiers are killed by government people, I don't think it's a stretch to say that it would put BLM/Forest Service employees at risk, especially those who work in the field. These field people and rangers are almost always out in the middle of nowhere, working alone and could easily be a target.  Bombing of Federal offices would not be out of the question.  There are many rump militia keyboard patriots, but the  SovCits attract some generally vicious human beings and and a  stone cold killers.  

[Howl]

OK, this is rich.  Gold Butte, where Cliven Bundy illegally grazed his cattle for many years, has been declared a National Monument -- yeah, OBAMA! 

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/obama-designates-gold-butte-national-monument-bundy-ranch

[Howl]

So,  couple of things, for those still following the aftermath of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge occupation, that resolved just about a year ago.  The first group to be tried for the occupation was acquitted in October 2016.  Group 2 is set to go to trial next week.  Oregon Public Radio has reported the following: 

Quote

 

Three defendants pleaded guilty Monday in Portland for their roles in last year’s occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.

Sean and Sandy Anderson, of Riggins, Idaho, along with Dylan Anderson, of Provo, Utah, all pleaded guilty to a federal trespassing charge, a misdemeanor. In exchange, the government dropped all additional charges, including felonies.

The three defendants were scheduled to be part of a second trial, which begins next week and stems from last year’s 41-day long armed standoff in Oregon’s high desert. Monday’s guilty pleas reduce the number of defendants and could cut down the amount of time necessary for the second trial, which is estimated to last between three and five weeks.

 

How can we ever forget Sean and Sandy dancing together, thinking it might be their last minutes on earth?  Yeah, I'd like to.  Sean is bitching that he was denied a trial by jury and instead will have one year of probation.  He and wifey, who thinks they have been called to a new battlefield (!), got off with a slap on the wrist. 

So on to  related item #2.  The trials for the Cliven Bundy ranch standoff began yesterday, Feb 6.    From High Country News What to read to prepare for the Bundys’ Nevada trial

Quote

The first of three trials of 17 defendants involved in the 2014 standoff between rancher Cliven Bundy, his supporters and the Bureau of Land Management is set to begin Feb. 6 at a federal courthouse in downtown Las Vegas. Defendants face 15 counts of charges including threats and assault on a federal officer. The trials are expected to take several months to complete. Lower-level defendants will be tried first, followed by standoff leaders including Cliven, Ammon and Ryan Bundy. The first group to be tried includes Eric Parker, who was famously photographed pointing a rifle toward federal agents during the Nevada standoff, as well as Richard Lovelien, Orville Scott Drexler, Gregory Burleson, Todd Engel and Steven Stewart.

This trial will be covered by the Las Vegas Review Journal

First trial in Bunkerville standoff case opens in Las Vegas

 

[Cleopatra7]

I'm watching the "American Experience" PBS program on the Oklahoma City Bombing, and it's really been illuminating. I wonder if there will be a similar attack, now that the Trump administration has made it clear that investigating white supremacist violence isn't a priority and given that the first set of Y'all Qaeda defendants were acquitted. We're already seeing increases in lower-level hate crimes, and if a large scale white supremacist attack did occur, the Trump administration would find some way to blame someone else, like how Fox initially claimed that the Charleston church shooting was motivated by"anti-Christian" prejudice, rather than anti-black sentiment. 

Somewhat OT but somewhat not, I find it interesting how white supremacists and anti-government extremists latched onto the Branch Davidians, even though the group was a little UN, with large numbers of black and Latino members; there was even an Israeli man who joined the Branch Davidians. This reflects the fact that the mainstream Seventh Day Adventist Church where David Koresh went to find followers is the most racially diverse Protestant denomination in the US. The Branch Davidians may have been guilty of a number of things, but racism wasn't one of them, and their tragedy was literally whitewashed by the radical right.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

1 hour ago, Cleopatra7 said:

Somewhat OT but somewhat not, I find it interesting how white supremacists and anti-government extremists latched onto the Branch Davidians, even though the group was a little UN, with large numbers of black and Latino members; there was even an Israeli man who joined the Branch Davidians. This reflects the fact that the mainstream Seventh Day Adventist Church where David Koresh went to find followers is the most racially diverse Protestant denomination in the US. The Branch Davidians may have been guilty of a number of things, but racism wasn't one of them, and their tragedy was literally whitewashed by the radical right.

It is interesting that they latch onto the Waco disaster when they could just as easily stick to using the Ruby Ridge shootings for a rallying cry. Plenty of White Supremacists there, unfortunately.

[Howl]

@Cleopatra7, thank you for that insight about the Branch Dividians; I had always assumed the Brand Davidians were a white evangelical sect and had no idea of the Seventh Day Adventist connection and that Adventists are racially diverse!  

A relative was on scene a few days before the compound burned and worked with someone who was there the day of.  The compound was being monitored by infrared technology and it was obvious that the compound was torched from the inside, in a doomsday scenario -- reminiscent of Jonestown in some ways.  Among numerous other horrible things, David Koresh raped young girls in the cult; he was a vile human being.

The Branch Davidians are considered martyrs by Sov Cits, who apparently only focus on the government standoff part and still believe that the compound was deliberately torched by the government/law enforcement.  

I need to revisit this topic to better understand the Sov Cit connection.  Recommendations for sources and suggested readings are welcomed. 

 

Edited February 8, 2017 by Howl

[clueliss]

@Cleopatra7  you mean like the nutjobs they busted a couple of months ago in Western Kansas that were plotting to blow up an apartment complex due to Muslims (or was it illegal immigrants?)?

[Howl]

Trial No. 2 has concluded, with all four defendants found guilty of something, but not all defendants found guilty of everything.  Oregon Public Broadcasting reports: 

Quote

The jury found Jason Patrick, described by prosecutors as one of the organizers of the armed occupation, and Darryl Thorn, who worked on security details, guilty of conspiring to prevent federal workers from doing their jobs at the refuge through intimidation, threat or force. The other two men on trial, Duane Ehmer and Jake Ryan, were found not guilty.

The jury, though, found both Ehmer and Ryan guilty of willfully damaging the refuge, or depredation of government property, by using a refuge excavator to dig two deep trenches early on the morning of Jan. 27, 2016.

The jury also found Thorn guilty of possessing a firearm in a federal facility, but acquitted Patrick and Ryan of the same charge.

Of course there was at least a little crazy, of course there was: 

Quote

Patrick, who said it's turkey hunting season where he lives in Georgia, made turkey calls in the courtroom before the judge or jury entered, prompting a deputy U.S. marshal to tell him to cut it out. "So, who's getting Tased?'' blurted out Matthew Schindler, a defense lawyer from the first trial who sat in the back of the courtroom to hear the verdict, referencing the bizarre ending to last fall's trial when Ammon Bundy's lawyer was taken into custody and stunned with a Taser.

Full text of Oregon Public Broadcasting article here. 

Edited March 12, 2017 by Howl

[DaisyD]

At least someone was found guilty of something in this mess. I don't remember the tasing though. 

[Howl]

23 minutes ago, DaisyD said:

At least someone was found guilty of something in this mess. I don't remember the tasing though. 

Ammon's lawyer, Marcus Mumford,  went ballistic over Ammon's continuing incarceration after the not guilty verdict was read; Mumford was restrained by four Federal marshals and tased.  

Details here. 

Ammon (and brother Ryan) went right back to jail,  pending their second trial for the Bundy Ranch standoff. 

 

[47of74]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

Ammon's lawyer, Marcus Mumford,  went ballistic over Ammon's continuing incarceration after the not guilty verdict was read; Mumford was restrained by four Federal marshals and tased.  

Details here. 

Ammon (and brother Ryan) went right back to jail,  pending their second trial for the Bundy Ranch standoff. 

 

Yeah I remember reading about that after the trial.  Good thing the judge didn't let Mumford have his way, we'd probably never see Ammon again if he got free before the trial.  He'd go into hiding and get all sorts of dumb shits to hide him like people did with Eric Rudolph.  The Bundys have shown repeatedly through word and deed that they consider themselves above the laws the rest of us live by, and that they cannot be trusted to abide by any per-trial release conditions or show up when it's time for the trial. 

[Howl]

Well, this is weird.  A mistrial had been declared in the first Nevada trial and will be retried in June.  Full text: Bunkerville standoff case ruled a mistrial

Quote

In a stunning twist, the first of three federal trials related to the 2014 armed standoff between Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy and federal land managers has been ruled a mistrial. The proceedings lasted over two months, but the trial has now been slated to begin anew on June 26. The jury was “deadlocked,” or undecided, on ten counts each for four of the six defendants, prompting Judge Gloria Navarro to declare a mistrial.

Despite the mistrial, two defendants did receive partial verdicts that will remain intact. Prior to the mistrial announcement, the jury released a verdict this morning for Todd Engel of Idaho and Gregory Burleson of Arizona. Engel was found guilty on two counts out of ten: obstruction of justice and interstate travel in aid of extortion. The prosecution considered Engel a “gunman,” who stayed on the roads above the sandy wash where protestors approached federal officers during the standoff. A former landscaper, Engel represented himself in court. Burleson, who carried a long gun in the wash and told an undercover FBI agent that he went to Bunkerville to kill federal employees, was found guilty of eight charges out of ten — excluding conspiracy against the U.S. government and conspiracy to impede and injure a federal officer.

After at least five days of deliberation, the jury was hung on all other counts. This morning, the judge ordered the jury to continue deliberations one last time, and when the jurors still could not reach verdicts, the judge declared a mistrial.

 

Edited April 26, 2017 by Howl

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

Apparently, stupid is still alive and well in my hometown. 

I posted it in this thread because of the sentence just above the covered license plate. The plate is local to my county. Sigh.

[DaisyD]

Ugh, and here I was just thinking that if being president is so hard maybe Trump should resign. Then at least we'd have a president who is relatively emotionally stable, even if he is awful. 

[Childless]

16 hours ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

Apparently, stupid is still alive and well in my hometown. 

I posted it in this thread because of the sentence just above the covered license plate. The plate is local to my county. Sigh.

According to the government definition of "terrorism", LaVoy Finicum was definitely a terrorist.  

[Audrey2]

38 minutes ago, Childless said:

According to the government definition of "terrorism", LaVoy Finicum was definitely a terrorist.  

Surely you must be mistaken. Terrorists are only scary Muslims from the Mideast. That's the Conservative definition.  Any Caucasian who does what they did, taking over a Federal Building (wildlife preserve) is a patriot, especially if he is acting with others.

 

Turning off the sarcasm font now. Yes, that thought was disgusting to type.

[bashfulpixie]

3 hours ago, Audrey2 said:

Surely you must be mistaken. Terrorists are only scary Muslims from the Mideast. That's the Conservative definition.  Any Caucasian who does what they did, taking over a Federal Building (wildlife preserve) is a patriot, especially if he is acting with others.

 

Turning off the sarcasm font now. Yes, that thought was disgusting to type.

Or if they end up killing people they're just a "lone wolf"