Jill, Derick and Israel- Lucky Number 13

[Whoosh]

I'm going to flat out ask where these "reports" are coming from with regard to a speech delay in an 11 month old.  From what I am reading (though I have not read every single post), I am getting the sense that these "reports" are not coming from anyone who knows or has met the child or his parents - nor are they coming from anyone who is trained in speech and language pathology.  Rather, they are coming from the internet peanut gallery that sometimes likes to leap to wild conclusions and make diagnoses of behavior issues based on photographs and random, brief video clips.  If I am wrong on that, someone please correct me.

About the bruises tending to show up on one side - I would agree that this may well be the result of having a strong dominant side.  Obviously, I can't know if that is what is going on with Izzy, but I don't think unilateral bruising in and of itself is a sign of anything really.

[Tim-Tom Biblethumper]

I hope this is fair game since it's not making assumptions on things or activities we cannot see...  
Am I the only one who is noticing that one of Izzy's eyes looks like it's turned inward?
I've been noticing it for a while now and kept excusing it due to camera angle, swelling, or whatever.  But I went back a few months in his photos and it seems like it's always been there and is just getting more noticeable over time.

[LadyPriss]

2 hours ago, quiverofdoubt said:

The swaddling picture freaks me out too.  swaddling is a method used to soothe newborns by mimicking the womb- not really used after around 3 months old. It's supposed to help calm a newborn and help them sleep longer.  It's not a control or discipline tactic, just something you can do with a newborn as a bedtime routine.  and you aren't supposed to bind the hips because it inhibits natural movement.   I just don't understand why she would take that picture, nevertheless post it.

Michelle has never publicly admitted using a rod, and doesn't advertise blanket training or the pearls. But we still can be pretty certain she uses those tactics. And we know that the girls call mom and ask for all kinds of baby advice, and that they've spent their whole lives being trained to obey without question. What are the odds if michelle says to blanket train that Jill won't do it? 

i worked pre-school, and we always had at least one fresh gash or face bruise each picture day. One girl thought it was a good idea to do a cart wheel. down cement stairs. on her way to picture day.  We often had makeup picture days later in the year for parents who needed a re-do.  Others just embraced the story.  

Michelle Doesn't advertise blanket training? Define 'advertise'?  Because there is a whole section in one of the Duggar books that describes blanket training 'playpen in your purse', which kid she started with (Joy) and even though Jed and Jer were older, she trained them when she realized the success she had training Joy.  The words 'special toy' 'correction' and 'consequences that are temporarily unpleasant' spring to mind from recollection.  Johannah sang some wiggle worm song.  

They also reference TTUAC...

[LittleSpouseOnThePrairie]

Jill Has always seemed a bit ditzy to me. My guess is that Jill is used to little ones getting ouchies and it's just business as usual to her. She probably assumes it is understood by her online "friends" and so doesn't think to address it in captions.

Also as someone else mentioned, if they are striking him it wouldn't be on his head/face. Not even the Pearls recommend that, right? (I hope not.)

I'm thinking it would likely be somewhere that would leave less visible evidence. 

[foreign fundie]

My guess is this. If there is anything seriously wrong with Izzy ( speech delay, cross eyed, bruises that have non-innocent causes, behavioural issues) they will hide it and make sure it does not show in any pic or video they put on-line. 

So no conclusions/diagnoses could be made from what they show us. Mind you, I do not blame people for speculating. If your brand advertises child beatings and general ignorance about nearly everything, people are going to speculate.

But so far I see a normal baby raised by a slighly naive and laid back mum. Btw my babies were cross eyed untill they were much older than Izzy is now, and are still covered in bruises from head to toe as they seem to have little spatial awareness and well, my house is full of things like furniture.

[RosyDaisy]

I don't think that's a bruise on Izzy's head. It looks more like a shadow or something.

[nastyhobbitses]

I'd certainly hope that there'd be proper interventions if Izzy was indeed being abused, but for now, I'm going to assume that he's a very active, klutzy baby with a kind of derpy-looking face. Maybe he has an eye issue and it affects his depth perception/eyesight, which could make him slam into stuff. Maybe Derick gets a little too enthusiastic when playing with him (that hammock video on Instagram had me thinking "damn, do you want launch that kid into orbit?"). I know it's very, very possible that Jill bought into Michael Pearl's How To Abuse Your Kids manual, but I really hope that Izzy's just klutzy/Derick is too boisterous when he's playing (which I figure is because Izzy is a really big, robust-looking kid and he thinks that play appropriate for a slightly older kid is OK, when it may be too rough still).

[St.Clara]

 

13 hours ago, Mercer said:

t depends. Are you planning on frequently posting those photographs for strangers on the internet to comment on? If not, you should be fine, but if so, you should prepare for some scrutiny because it comes with the territory.

I don't think the Dillards beat Izzy, even though I strongly disagree with some of their parenting philosophy. I don't think that he has an excessive amount of bruises for an active child who is increasingly mobile. I do think it's pretty tone deaf of the Dillards to continue posting those pictures for the general public without any explanation whatsoever. If you are choosing to set yourself up as a public figure, you have to expect to be judged on your self-presentation.

I think it´s possible that they may have posted the picture below, if not exactly as an explanation, so perhaps as sort of an answer to the people who are criticizing them (as in: "You can as well go  f..k yourselves, you vile heathens, how dare you question our godliness!") While I´d readily admit that this sort of communication strategy would be sufficient to make any pr-counselor of theirs go directly to the next pool or pond in order to end his misery and drown himself, I honestly don´t think they have a pr-counselor.  (Or maybe not any more... it´s not as if he´d not have had ample opportunity for drowning himself already in the past.)

 

19 hours ago, MatthewDuggar said:

The Dillards are out of control.  This new photo shows a huge bruise of Israel's head.  There are also reports that he might have some delays as he isn't speaking any yet.

 

[midnightviolet]

9 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Bpttom line, the second generation Duggars did not have good parental roles models and more importantly, NONE of them seem to realize that fact.

So if Mama Duggar (or sisters) fed babies straight out of metal cans with tablespoons, while said babies were flat on their backs, that type of behavior is seen as good, safe parenting.

Same with:

Not watching the kids at all

Toddlers seated alone at the table

Kids walking on countertops with dirty feet

Mom walking around wearing My Breast Friend with baby in tow for years on end

No sheets on beds

And on and on

Safety is low on the priority list.

In fact, the only thing on that list with regards to children, was procreating the next one.

Effed up parenting continuing into the next generation.

Someone needs to break the cycle.

 

A bit random, but this list reminds me of watching a repeat where Anna says one of the things she's learned from Michelle is that kids can sleep all night in their clothes. Nice to know they can't even be bothered to make sure of that. (although with what we know now about Josh, maybe it was something to do with that.) 

I suspect for Jill that it'll probably be another thing that gets to slide as the number of kids increases. 

[VelociRapture]

In regards to the inward turning eye:

I was recently diagnosed with intermittent esotropia - it means one or both of my eyes over correct when trying to focus on objects far away. My eyes wind up crossing and I get double vision. I've been told that babies commonly have this and most grow out of it as their eye muscles strengthen. 

[Mrs. Figg]

Good Lord. I'm so glad I'm only friends on fb with people that know me and my family. If I was accused of abuse for every bump and bruise my kids had from normal growing up experiences I'd be pissed. 

[quiverofdoubt]

@LadyPriss- Yes, they mention it in their books. But I never remember them saying a word about it, or using it on, TV. It's also not prevalent on their websites. You can find it, but you have to look.  In other words, if you're really interested in the duggars and are a die hard leg humper (or hater) you'll get her rundown on blanket training. But the casual tv watcher has never heard of it. Not in the same way the talk about modest wear, modest swim wear, courting etc etc.

 

You can technically see a delay in an 11 month old child. At 11 months there are plenty of milestones he should have hit- rolling over, sitting unassisted, rocking on all fours, cooing, babbling with vowel sounds and at 11 months I would expect to hear consonant vowel combos from him. THAT being said. I think it's sickening to diagnose a small child publicly with only a few snapshots and short videos to go off on. Not how that works.  The only one who can do that is a professional who has evaluated him in person. And then it's up to mom and dad how to deal with that info.  From the pics we have seen it's clear he's doing at least some of those milestones, and judging by the head bangs he's probably already crawling, pulling up and possibly attempting first steps.

[Mercer]

1 hour ago, Mrs. Figg said:

Good Lord. I'm so glad I'm only friends on fb with people that know me and my family. If I was accused of abuse for every bump and bruise my kids had from normal growing up experiences I'd be pissed. 

You are choosing only to share with people who will understand and not misinterpret, which is wise.

The Dillards are choosing to spread their personal photos far and wide to any strangers who want to see them, even though they know in the past they have been misunderstood and misinterpreted. The results have been predictable.

To me, any heat they receive is the result of their own actions (in oversharing and showing continued poor judgment in their social media presence, not anything I think they've done to Izzy,) so I can't bring myself to feel sorry for them. If it bothers them, they need to grow up, take some responsibility for how they present themselves to the public, and make some better choices.

[picklepizzas]

i think this is possibly a case of jill's sheltered upbringing rearing it's head. she grew up with many little siblings and is probably as a result very laid back about little bumps and bruises.  as many of the posters in this thread have said, it's not surprising that a baby would have little bumps on their face.  

a lot of posters have also pointed out that they would be quick to explain those bumps away on social media, or to people who don't know them well, because that is the social expectation.  however, jill was not raised in such a way that she would know this is a social expectation. jill was completely sheltered from the internet and social media, and interacted with a select trusted circle. How could she know that when addressing strangers she's expected to explain away something that seems perfectly normal to her and her small circle (a bruise) ? Because of her upbringing, she might not realize that her followers expect an explanation of izzie's bruises any more than they expect an explanation for yet another mustard yellow cardigan. 

if i posted jill's pictures, i would probably include a disclaimer, bc i've had the privilege of an upbringing that exposed me to the world and allowed me to learn/be aware of social expectations and cultural norms. jill didn't have that privilege. for all intents and purposes she was raised in a completely different culture, with different expectations and norms. and now she is trying to navigate a different culture (i.e. mainstream social media) and her lack of education is showing. i'm not sure it's fair to criticize her so harshly when she really might not know any better. 

 

 

[SassyPants]

10 hours ago, Flyinthesoup said:

As I have said in the past, I have never seen a Duggar episode. Is this a list of things they have done? On TV? 

Yes

[SledCat]

Good Lord. Derick is approaching Cousin It level hairy. Dunno why, but that beard makes me feel a bit itchy.

[TShirtsLongSkirts]

34 minutes ago, SledCat said:

Good Lord. Derick is approaching Cousin It level hairy. Dunno why, but that beard makes me feel a bit itchy.

It's the hypocrisy of it that annoys me. The women are expected to have long shiny hair and make up (but not too much!) and have very strict wardrobe restrictions and always look perfect for their husbands because *godly countenance!* and all that. Meanwhile Derick's totally allowed to wander round like he hasn't seen a mirror in a year. 

[Imagine20]

Maybe he grew the beard to make his cheeks look fuller, since there's been so much talk about how thin he was and the effects of his surgery. 

Nothing can excuse that hair, though. It's begging for a scissors or clipper, and perhaps it's his way of rejecting JB helmet hair. 

[lascuba]

45 minutes ago, TShirtsLongSkirts said:

It's the hypocrisy of it that annoys me. The women are expected to have long shiny hair and make up (but not too much!) and have very strict wardrobe restrictions and always look perfect for their husbands because *godly countenance!* and all that. Meanwhile Derick's totally allowed to wander round like he hasn't seen a mirror in a year. 

I hate to sound like I'm defending that awful-looking fool, but to be fair, a)Jill mostly stopped trying to look "perfect" since getting married and is probably just fine with Derrick's unkempt appearance (birds of a feather really do flock together); and b)the "women must look perfect while it's fine for men to be slobs" is practically universal. I see plenty of het couples where men are wearing jeans and t-shirts while women are dressed to the nines. 

[Gobbles]

5 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

In regards to the inward turning eye:

I was recently diagnosed with intermittent esotropia - it means one or both of my eyes over correct when trying to focus on objects far away. My eyes wind up crossing and I get double vision. I've been told that babies commonly have this and most grow out of it as their eye muscles strengthen. 

I have the same! Always thought it was normal, but figured out that it wasn't a few years ago. Got my glasses to correct it at 19. Without glasses I have double vision in the distance. When I take my phobia medication the glasses stop working. That is so interesting. The medication must do something in my brain. 

[socalrules]

It is possible that Derrick may be suffering from depression. We talk about how Jill's life has changed but Derrick's has a well. He quickly married someone he really didn't know, gave up his career for the life of a reality star only to lose the show when the his new family's horrible secrets came out, he likely felt helpless when his mom was battling cancer and feared he would lose his last parent, became a parent himself and went though oral surgery he may or may not have needed. This is all in a span of less than two years. Has it even been two years since they married? 

I also wonder if he feels like he has, in a way, failed his family. It seems like his father was a larger than life man who he respected and likely still overshadows his life. His father was likely the dependable man you can count on. He was a cop and, from what we have heard, seems to have been a good father and husband. He was so important that Derrick had to be Pistol Pete just like his Dad. Derrick may feel like he has failed his Dad. He isn't financially supporting his family, he isn't really doing anything as a missionary, he is far away from his mother who has only recently gone into remission for cancer and he doesn't seem to be doing much that a non-fundy parent would expect of their adult, married child. His Dad really did help people everyday as a police office and Derrick is handing out one crayon at a time. 

Also, Derrick seems to look worse since his mother left and he may feel guilty about being so far away from her. She is likely a stabilizing influence on him. He may also realize he can never have the marriage his parents had as he married a woman who does not seems as capable as an adult as his mother, who was able to continue on when his Dad died, and who was able to financially and emotionally support her children. 

[ksgranola1]

Moving back to the states isn't THAT far off in the distance;4-5 months. I'm sure they can keep it together until then.

At which time I'm certain Derrick will shave & get a responsible job.

Jill worships her mother & can see nothing wrong w/her over production of offspring or horrible parenting. So she is doomed to repeat it. However, Darrick was not brought up that way & he will surely step in if he sees her approach Izzy w/a rod.Altho she worships her parents, Jill s a member of a modern generation and I do believe she would question its wisdom before she went full-Pearl on Izzy. Someday, it will dawn on her; "Could my parents have FLAWS?!"

[Chickenbutt]

I wanted to give an upvote to socalrules, but when I clicked it said "you are not allowed to give reputation to this user" . That has happened several times with different users. *shrug* I dunno.

[Flyinthesoup]

6 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Yes

That's just nuts, all of it!!!

 Michele actually wore a shirt that stated:  

Quote

 My Breast Friend ?

Crazy!  I am actually shocked she would wear that kind of saying on her chest, or was that on her back?  Either way, that is so tacky, tacky, tacky!

[SledCat]

4 hours ago, Imagine20 said:

...and perhaps it's his way of rejecting JB helmet hair. 

I love it. It also makes me wonder if JB's hair looks like Derick's when it isn't all slicked down with half the hair products in Arkansas. That is a nightmarish thought.