Jill, Derick and Israel- Lucky Number 13

[HRM1216]

I feel like the plan would be for JD and Jana to remain unmarried and finish raising the kids. JD has employable skills and Jana's already raised half the family anyways.

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, quiverofdoubt said:

So they probably have at least heard of catcher in the rye, 1984, shakespeare, the great gatsby, little women etc then. Even if they only skimmed them for the test in school. Oh, catch 22.  Clearly, jb read cheaper by the dozen at some point

I think he only read the title.  If he had read the book, he might have realized that (a) it is a good thing for women to have education and work a little even after marriage (b) education is a good thing in general  (c) you have to respect individuality.

The Gilbreths were a very literate, competitive family with two parents that worked "outside the home" but were very much engaged with their kids.  And clearly the kids were all individuals.  

Can you imagine any of Jim Bob's brood saying, when everyone was staring at them in their frumpers, "I feel like Lady Godiva?"  -- one of the Gilbreth's girls did. ( If the Duggars have heard of Lady Godiva they probably think she makes chocolate. ) Could you see JB buying language records and making the kids listen to them while taking their baths so that bath time should not be wasted?

[lascuba]

3 hours ago, Mercer said:

I guess for me, I don't have the same empathy because the whole thing is completely under Derick and Jill's control. No one is forcing them to share their lives on social media for other people to comment on. They're D-list semi-celebrities who are shoving themselves into the public eye with TV specials and a hefty online presence where they willingly broadcast their lives to strangers. 

If they just kept their heads down, kept their social media to family and friends, and stopped courting television and magazines with their stories, no one would have a thing to say about them. The Dillards would just be three more people living their lives for better or worse.

They can't have it both ways. If they want the attention of trying to make themselves celebrities, they have to also deal with the judgment that comes with opening up their lives to strangers. They can't demand one and then get outraged that the other comes with it; the two things are part and parcel of their chosen lifestyle.

I'm sure it's not the most comfortable thing for them, but if they don't like it they're free to start making different choices.

I agree that the judgment is a natural consequence of their decisions and I don't feel any pity from them over it. The only thing I was responding to was the complaint about their (non)reactions over Zika and Derrick's possibly mocking picture. Not for their sake, just more like...these people give us enough to criticize, and while I can as petty as the next person when I dislike people, this particular issue isn't high on my list of Duggar offenses. I get why people think they should leave CA in light of Zika, but complaining about Jill and Derrick mocking the "concern" coming from people who mock their (stupid) religious beliefs, their (asinine) desire to be a missionaries, their (bless their hearts) looks, and their (questionable) parenting...can you not see why they would troll the concern trolls? 

The empathy for me comes in imaging myself being any kind of celebrity (never going to happen), and how I would handle certain scenarios. In a very general sense, it's completely unrealistic to expect anyone with so many people shouting in their ear to listen to them. It's too much crap to wade through and I wouldn't take the time try to distinguish the helpful from the hateful--I'd lose my mind. And I most certainly wouldn't try to placate people who post about what an irresponsible parent/incubator I am under the guise of being worried about my future fetuses. I wouldn't publicly complain about it, because I chose to earn my income that way, and I probably wouldn't say anything at all, but the urge to post a subtle "Fuck you" on a regular basis would be great. 

tl:dr version: I'm all for criticizing/slamming/mocking these people, but getting mad when they don't act appreciative over the comments is a bit much. 

[quiverofdoubt]

1 hour ago, EmCatlyn said:

I think he only read the title.  If he had read the book, he might have realized that (a) it is a good thing for women to have education and work a little even after marriage (b) education is a good thing in general  (c) you have to respect individuality.

The Gilbreths were a very literate, competitive family with two parents that worked "outside the home" but were very much engaged with their kids.  And clearly the kids were all individuals.  

Can you imagine any of Jim Bob's brood saying, when everyone was staring at them in their frumpers, "I feel like Lady Godiva?"  -- one of the Gilbreth's girls did. ( If the Duggars have heard of Lady Godiva they probably think she makes chocolate. ) Could you see JB buying language records and making the kids listen to them while taking their baths so that bath time should not be wasted?

Probably. But seeing how he can manipulate the bible to mean anything he wants he probably does the same thing with every text he's read.

 

2 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

If a dozen is good, then 2 dozen would be better, and poor Boob didn't make it to 20.

You know that's gotta be killing him. You know how badly he wanted that 20 number, nice and round and even.  I think michelle could care less- i think she was done 13 kids ago.

[Imagine20]

Shouldn't people who are spreading the word of God be clean and well groomed?  It adds legitimacy to what you're doing, and people are more receptive to what you're saying. 

Derrick looks like one of those crazy street preachers. You know the kind: the ones standing on a box at the subway station or college campus screaming about hell and the Illuminati. 

[DuggarWatch]

9 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

Do the Duggars even bother with homeschooling at the high school level? It just seems like around 14-16, education (or whatever passes for education at the TTH) stops altogether and the kids are pressed into gender-segregated indentured servitude. I really don't see JB or Michelle bothering with algebra or anything that requires higher order thought.

Arkansas changed its law last year and now requires homeschooled kids to study until age 17 instead of 16.  That's why the older Duggar kids stopped at 16.  

[socalrules]

Education has never been a priority in the Duggar household. I think that as long as the kids can read, however proficiently, and do basic math, that's more than good enough for their parents. I think it is likely even worse for the girls as they are so busy raising their siblings that education has to take a back seat. I have seen nothing that would lead me to believe that any of the kids are in a position to take and pass the easiest general education college class. Jim Bob and Michelle have always had low standards for their children. Their priorities have always been off the norm. They consider it the highest of achievements to have adult children who have never kissed or held hands with someone. They would never understand a parent being proud of their child's academics.

Most is fascinating is that their lifestyle is completely non-child friendly. Kids are raised to raise their siblings. Kids do all the housework, yard work, and in the Duggar house, schooling for their siblings. Jim Bob and Michelle are more like regional managers that drop in once in awhile to make sure the factory is running smoothly but don't actually do anything but provide more work (babies) for the kids. There is no cultivation of any talent or interest a child may have. No kids involved in sports or band or academic decathlon (I jest) that may actually interest them. No taking a kid to the library to load up on books of interest, which hurts my heart because the library and I have always been best friends. 

[nastyhobbitses]

41 minutes ago, socalrules said:

Education has never been a priority in the Duggar household. I think that as long as the kids can read, however proficiently, and do basic math, that's more than good enough for their parents. I think it is likely even worse for the girls as they are so busy raising their siblings that education has to take a back seat. I have seen nothing that would lead me to believe that any of the kids are in a position to take and pass the easiest general education college class. Jim Bob and Michelle have always had low standards for their children. Their priorities have always been off the norm. They consider it the highest of achievements to have adult children who have never kissed or held hands with someone. They would never understand a parent being proud of their child's academics.

Most is fascinating is that their lifestyle is completely non-child friendly. Kids are raised to raise their siblings. Kids do all the housework, yard work, and in the Duggar house, schooling for their siblings. Jim Bob and Michelle are more like regional managers that drop in once in awhile to make sure the factory is running smoothly but don't actually do anything but provide more work (babies) for the kids. There is no cultivation of any talent or interest a child may have. No kids involved in sports or band or academic decathlon (I jest) that may actually interest them. No taking a kid to the library to load up on books of interest, which hurts my heart because the library and I have always been best friends. 

If they're busy and dumb, they stay under your thumb.

[Whoosh]

14 minutes ago, nastyhobbitses said:

If they're busy and dumb, they stay under your thumb.

You made this up, right?  This isn't a real thing or saying?  The fundie sayings often seem like parody to me, but this can not be a real thing people say?

[St.Clara]

On 29.2.2016 at 5:11 AM, EmCatlyn said:

Yeah, I got married in an Episcopalian service about three years ago (second marriage) and we definitely chose Rite II.   Even the Anglicans USA who broke away from the ECUSA over gay priests (among other things) have a choice about "obey."  The Church of England Book of Common Prayer revision of 1928(?) made the obey optional (I know this bit of trivia as a fan of Dorothy Sayer's Wimsey novels.  See Busman's Honeymoon.  ). I would think the Episcopal book did also, and this is the one the conservative Anglicans like.)

In short, if the bride says "obey" in most cases it is by choice.

Honestly, it has always rubbed me the wrong way that Sayers would let Harriet say „obey“. While it undoubtedly is very funny within the given context („Why would she say „obey“? She looks as stubborn as a mule!“), it does not make much sense after all the trouble they have been through regarding equality and such (even more so as it all but kept them from getting together in the first place, see „Gaudy Night“).

It is as if Sayers, after addressing really important issues in a thoughtful and sophisticated manner, finally falls prey to the temptation of giving in to what the average man or woman of the time might think of her („Crazy feminist without any sense of humour!“) and of pretending that all that stuff was never meant to be taken so very seriously...

Well, but who the fuck cares what people think, Ms Sayers?

[nastyhobbitses]

1 hour ago, Whoosh said:

You made this up, right?  This isn't a real thing or saying?  The fundie sayings often seem like parody to me, but this can not be a real thing people say?

Don't worry, I made it up. But it's sad that it could be a real saying.

Really, I liken it to the sorts of education policies colonial powers had in place in their colonies. Educate the natives enough to be useful to you, but don't let them get to thinking that maybe they're smart and capable enough to govern themselves.

[DuggarWatch]

10 minutes ago, nastyhobbitses said:

Don't worry, I made it up. But it's sad that it could be a real saying.

Really, I liken it to the sorts of education policies colonial powers had in place in their colonies. Educate the natives enough to be useful to you, but don't let them get to thinking that maybe they're smart and capable enough to govern themselves.

And, of course, beating the kids with a rod helps with submission, too! 

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, St.Clara said:

Honestly, it has always rubbed me the wrong way that Sayers would let Harriet say „obey“. While it undoubtedly is very funny within the given context („Why would she say „obey“? She looks as stubborn as a mule!“), it does not make much sense after all the trouble they have been through regarding equality and such (even more so as it all but kept them from getting together in the first place, see „Gaudy Night“).

It is as if Sayers, after addressing really important issues in a thoughtful and sophisticated manner, finally falls prey to the temptation of giving in to what the average man or woman of the time might think of her („Crazy feminist without any sense of humour!“) and of pretending that all that stuff was never meant to be taken so very seriously...

Well, but who the fuck cares what people think, Ms Sayers?

I didn't read it that way.  I think Harriet chooses to say "obey" as part of a protest to what today we would call PC-ness."  She makes the point to Peter that he would want her to "obey" “if the place was on fire or a tree falling down and he wanted her to stand clear.”  I take that to mean that for her, the word "obey" did not have to connote wifely submission.  It is a joke, but I see it more as Sayers' dig at literalists.

Harriet can vow to "obey" Peter because she trusts that if he gave her an order it would be for a good reason that he would afterwards be able to explain if it wasn't self-evident.  At least, that is how I read it. (But it is also important to remember that this is the same Harriet who allowed herself to be bullied into cohabiting with Phillip Boyes-- so maybe she just likes the idea of masculine authority on an emotional level.)  

As for Sayers herself, she was a traditionalist and a Christian apologist but big into interpretation.  I really like her reading of the Martha and Mary story (she argued that Jesus was saying that Mary, a woman, was right to behave like a disciple). Sayers liked the "old forms" but interpreted them to suit her views. 

Apologies to all who don't know what we are talking about.  Didn't mean to derail the thread!! 

Just now, EmCatlyn said:

I didn't read it that way.  I think Harriet chooses to say "obey" as part of a protest to what today we would call " PC-ness" but she saw as the tendency to take things too literally.

She makes the point to Peter that he would want her to "obey" “if the place was on fire or a tree falling down and he wanted her to stand clear.”  I take that to mean that for her, the word "obey" did not have to connote wifely submission.  It is a joke, but I see it more as Sayers' dig at literalists.

Harriet can vow to "obey" Peter because she trusts that if he gave her an order it would be for a good reason that he would afterwards be able to explain if it wasn't self-evident.  At least, that is how I read it. (But it is also important to remember that this is the same Harriet who allowed herself to be bullied into cohabiting with Phillip Boyes-- so maybe she just likes the idea of masculine authority on an emotional level.)  

As for Sayers herself, she was a traditionalist and a Christian apologist but big into interpretation.  I really like her reading of the Martha and Mary story (she argued that Jesus was saying that Mary, a woman, was right to behave like a disciple). Sayers liked the "old forms" but interpreted them to suit her views. 

Apologies to all who don't know what we are talking about.  Didn't mean to derail the thread!! 

 

[twinmama]

On 2/29/2016 at 11:34 PM, LittleSpouseOnThePrairie said:

This post looks like variation of damage control to me. It isn't sincere or explanatory. It just makes me feel like he's saying "we read your comments, and bought some OFF. Happy?"

 

His beard looks like pubes.

On 3/1/2016 at 4:21 PM, Chickenbutt said:

This has me thinking of Josie. IF she has underlying delays, what will her education be like? I think the sistermoms have even less ability to recognize the delays and ask for help. Back in the day, Michelle may have spent a little more time if a particular child was struggling with something, but with so many kids around the table and essentially a teenager teaching, who is going to recognize if any problems exist?

Honestly will it even be any different? A child with no delays is hardly learning anything from whoever "teaches" the Duggars, Josie won't be that much worse off if she does have delays sadly.

And while Josie's adulthood is way down the line still and who knows what the Duggar status will be then... none of them have needed a single iota of education so far. They are all famous unintelligent idiots right now. I don't know what any of them have done that someone with learning disabilities couldn't have also done.

[DuggarWatch]

5 minutes ago, twinmama said:

His beard looks like pubes.

Something is really wrong with Derick's eyes in that picture!

[twinmama]

Just now, DuggarWatch said:

Something is really wrong with Derick's eyes in that picture!

He is starting to look like Charles Manson! lol

11 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

If they're busy and dumb, they stay under your thumb.

This can be one of the stupid sayings these people plaster on the walls over their beds!

[RootBeerFloat]

Dude looks like he's about to build a cabin in the woods and start writing manifestos.

[twinmama]

2 minutes ago, RootBeerFloat said:

Dude looks like he's about to build a cabin in the woods and start writing manifestos.

Ah has anyone not crazy ever written a manifesto? 

[DuggarWatch]

12 minutes ago, twinmama said:

He is starting to look like Charles Manson! lol

Or Osama bin Laden.

[withaj]

17 minutes ago, RootBeerFloat said:

Dude looks like he's about to build a cabin in the woods and start writing manifestos.

...and this is different from what he is already doing... how? Those blog posts are damn near incomprehensible already. Make them a little longer and he's there.

[twinmama]

15 minutes ago, withaj said:

...and this is different from what he is already doing... how? Those blog posts are damn near incomprehensible already. Make them a little longer and he's there.

So basically he just needs to start calling it a manifesto.

[CatsRevenge]

Just want to thank you all.  I'm a single Mom with a newly empty nest and I've been afraid I'd never be happy again. But you all never fail  to cheer me up and even make me laugh out loud, so I'm here somewhere almost every day. I've been a lurker for a very long time to get a feel of everything and try to learn some do's and don'ts but after these last couple pages I had to post and say that.  And, in case you're wondering, my name here is a nod to Derick and the cat. That made me so mad.

Anyway, I've been thinking about the Dillards and their "mission work".  I've noticed them getting progressively more outlandish in the photos and just acting weird.  Short of them possibly getting into some local wacky weed, I think they're messing with us with some things, like the OFF picture.  I also think they're over the initial shock of being in another country and are really really beginning to love not having anyone breathing down their necks like back at the TTH.  Especially Jill.  Just think, they can have sex like bunnies all over their house, any time they want and there's no one to answer to.  Except little Izzy and he can just be shut away somewhere while they tear the place up.  They can eat and drink anything they want, as much as they want without sharing. Basically it would be like a kid moving away to college and going wild after living at home their whole life. 

I think Jill is much more of a people pleaser than Jessa is, so I bet this is really turning out to be something Jill didn't expect to like so much. She still gets to seem like Daddy's perfect little angel under the guise of doing all this work for Jebus, while at the same time getting her freak on with Derick.  That's just what I've been thinking anyway. 

p.s.  I can't figure out how to change my avatar.  Do I need a certain post count?  Or is there a guide somewhere?  Thanks!!

 

 

[nst]

2 minutes ago, CatsRevenge said:

Just want to thank you all.  I'm a single Mom with a newly empty nest and I've been afraid I'd never be happy again. But you all never fail  to cheer me up and even make me laugh out loud, so I'm here somewhere almost every day. I've been a lurker for a very long time to get a feel of everything and try to learn some do's and don'ts but after these last couple pages I had to post and say that.  And, in case you're wondering, my name here is a nod to Derick and the cat. That made me so mad.

Anyway, I've been thinking about the Dillards and their "mission work".  I've noticed them getting progressively more outlandish in the photos and just acting weird.  Short of them possibly getting into some local wacky weed, I think they're messing with us with some things, like the OFF picture.  I also think they're over the initial shock of being in another country and are really really beginning to love not having anyone breathing down their necks like back at the TTH.  Especially Jill.  Just think, they can have sex like bunnies all over their house, any time they want and there's no one to answer to.  Except little Izzy and he can just be shut away somewhere while they tear the place up.  They can eat and drink anything they want, as much as they want without sharing. Basically it would be like a kid moving away to college and going wild after living at home their whole life. 

I think Jill is much more of a people pleaser than Jessa is, so I bet this is really turning out to be something Jill didn't expect to like so much. She still gets to seem like Daddy's perfect little angel under the guise of doing all this work for Jebus, while at the same time getting her freak on with Derick.  That's just what I've been thinking anyway. 

p.s.  I can't figure out how to change my avatar.  Do I need a certain post count?  Or is there a guide somewhere?  Thanks!!

 

 

welcome to FJ - we have endless supply of laughter and snark about Derick being a caveman 

Ben being an edgy preacher and Jessa getting colored hair extensions and now with the Jill possibly pregnant - we can create new thoughts on how long her labour will be 

and for Michelle we light a candle because don't forget she was in the room when Ben was born 

[withaj]

1 hour ago, CatsRevenge said:

Just want to thank you all.  I'm a single Mom with a newly empty nest and I've been afraid I'd never be happy again. But you all never fail  to cheer me up and even make me laugh out loud, so I'm here somewhere almost every day. I've been a lurker for a very long time to get a feel of everything and try to learn some do's and don'ts but after these last couple pages I had to post and say that.  And, in case you're wondering, my name here is a nod to Derick and the cat. That made me so mad.

Anyway, I've been thinking about the Dillards and their "mission work".  I've noticed them getting progressively more outlandish in the photos and just acting weird.  Short of them possibly getting into some local wacky weed, I think they're messing with us with some things, like the OFF picture.  I also think they're over the initial shock of being in another country and are really really beginning to love not having anyone breathing down their necks like back at the TTH.  Especially Jill.  Just think, they can have sex like bunnies all over their house, any time they want and there's no one to answer to.  Except little Izzy and he can just be shut away somewhere while they tear the place up.  They can eat and drink anything they want, as much as they want without sharing. Basically it would be like a kid moving away to college and going wild after living at home their whole life. 

I think Jill is much more of a people pleaser than Jessa is, so I bet this is really turning out to be something Jill didn't expect to like so much. She still gets to seem like Daddy's perfect little angel under the guise of doing all this work for Jebus, while at the same time getting her freak on with Derick.  That's just what I've been thinking anyway. 

p.s.  I can't figure out how to change my avatar.  Do I need a certain post count?  Or is there a guide somewhere?  Thanks!!

Great username, and welcome! 

As for the avatar, if you go to the top right and click "Profile" under the drop-down menu below your username, you can then click on the "Profile Photo" button on the standard avatar to upload or import something else.

[CatsRevenge]

4 minutes ago, withaj said:

Great username, and welcome! 

As for the avatar, if you go to the top right and click "Profile" under the drop-down menu below your username, you can then click on the "Profile Photo" button on the standard avatar to upload or import something else.

Thanks so much!  I'm glad to be here.  I looked all over and missed that profile photo button, I'll try again.  I appreciate the help!