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Jill, Derick and Israel- Lucky Number 13


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4 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

I shudder to think what SOTDRT would be like for a child with cognitive problems, intellectual disability, or blindness.

The state has excellent care and 'schools' for kids like that. Saddly, I don't think the  Duggars or their ilk would take advantage of any of it. The Amish has a neurological condition that they pass around, so they have a center set up for that, all self-sufficient since they do not partake of anything government. I wonder what they would say about a woman running for president. Oh, they know. They read the paper diligently.

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5 minutes ago, meowmeow19 said:

Some fundie friends of mine are dyslexic and were home schooled can't read past the 2nd grade level. Their mom gave extra attention to help them but all it did was help them memorize what they had to read and not actually learn to read. I have dyslexia but I was so ashamed of it I hid it in public school. I worked around it and through some of it but no one caught on. I wish I had gotten some help. 

I was diagnosed as "border line" dyslexic several times. My ps didn't really want to spend the money on services for me, so i kind of got the shaft. It wasn't till college that i found out i could've been getting services all along- like extra time for tests, or be allowed to take home essay tests to type them out.  The only help i was offered was a big cumbersome typing machine i would be allowed to use to take notes in class. that was sixth grade. Yeah- i didn't want to be that kid. (my biggest symptom is terrible handwriting and slow reading skills, plus switching letters/numbers).

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My heart breaks for anyone who is not given the privilege of basic education. If you deny your child the help they may need to learn to read, then you also deny them all the other opportunities for learning - books, libraries, the internet. Books have been my education, my escape, my comfort, my freedom all my life - to deny that to ANYONE is criminal.

I truly do not understand the fundie acceptance that their children should be less than they are.  To deny them basic literacy when help is available for those who are challenged. To deny them basic numeracy, when, again, help is available.

Their god is a very strange one. He does not wish his children to excel, to be the best that they can. Rather, he seems to wish to confine them in an unquestioning rut, where their standard of living will drop lower and lower, as his followers have fewer and fewer skills, as he forbids them an education.

Oh, wait. Maybe this ISN'T their god - but only their interpretation of him.If he is real, I think he will have some very strong words for the parents of these families in the next life.

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48 minutes ago, quiverofdoubt said:

Remember the episode where one of the boys was sent to get his workbook, and ended up all over the house and really struggled to complete that simple task? That has adhd/dyslexia etc written all over it.  While i'm glad it seems like she recognizes the disabilities that's only the first step- next step is consulting with professionals to figure out a strategy/game plan for each affected child.  A lot of kids are pulled from ps for learning disabilities because the parents realize they can get more one on one time/personalized curriculum that a large classroom can't provide. It also allows them to work at their own pace and can cater to their strengths. (or is just a more flexible environment where an adhd kid can get some exercise in before lessons so it's easier to sit still, or can involve more movement with the lessons).  Michelle however.....never really seems very invested in her kids education.

To be fair I think your assessment of adhd/dyslexia is a pretty good one but I don't know many kids that wouldn't have tried to pull this on their mom-teacher daily, disabilities or not.

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5 minutes ago, ksgranola1 said:

The state has excellent care and 'schools' for kids like that. Saddly, I don't think the  Duggars or their ilk would take advantage of any of it. The Amish has a neurological condition that they pass around, so they have a center set up for that, all self-sufficient since they do not partake of anything government. I wonder what they would say about a woman running for president. Oh, they know. They read the paper diligently.

I'm not sure what schools you are referring to.  Most schools try to mainstream children with learning disabilities, even very severe cases of autism and downs.  They still meet with special ed classrooms/teachers for various subjects, but try to have them in classes they can handle for other subjects.  They find it helps both the special needs children (they get behavior examples set for them) and helps the other kids learn to embrace and help the special needs kids.  How much they are mainstreamed is case by case. But i'm pretty sure segregated schools for special needs kids have been shut down for the most part, if not considered illegal.  It is the legal responsibility of your local ps to educate your child, no matter how difficult they're situation.  Some schools do better than others of course, and in some areas the schools are so awful, especially in terms of care, treatment and education of special needs kids, that parents choose to pull them out.  My state has abysmal school funding and many schools are failing all the kids.  And the entire country is lacking in special education teachers in general.

What schools exactly are you speaking of? Michelle's kids are not extreme, and would be mainstreamed with pull asides to help them with organizational skills, extra tutoring and whatever else they needed. But would be expected to spend most of the day in the regular classroom.

1 minute ago, meowmeow19 said:

To be fair I think your assessment of adhd/dyslexia is a pretty good one but I don't know many kids that wouldn't have tried to pull this on their mom-teacher daily, regardless of disabilities or not.

Totally true! I'd say I homeschool, but my kid isn't quite 4, so we are focusing on fun preschool activities.  However we are part of the larger hs community locally. Most kids are actually pretty good at following directions and getting lessons done. The parents who struggle usually find it's the material or teaching method they are using that's the problem. Or find their kid has burned out on school from the local high pressure/high test/little recess school.  But yes, it's very normal for homeschooling parents to have patches where getting their kids to do lessons is a pain.  But in that short clip he seemed more like he was distracted than anything- he also seemed like he didn't want to do another fill in the blank boring, sit still workbook.

also, the successful homeschool kids i know don't have to spend 30 minutes looking for a workbook- as their materials are always out and ready to go. Kind of a red flag. Like "mom, school?? what? I haven't touched my phonics in like two weeks!"

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This has me thinking of Josie. IF she has underlying delays, what will her education be like? I think the sistermoms have even less ability to recognize the delays and ask for help. Back in the day, Michelle may have spent a little more time if a particular child was struggling with something, but with so many kids around the table and essentially a teenager teaching, who is going to recognize if any problems exist?

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6 minutes ago, Chickenbutt said:

This has me thinking of Josie. IF she has underlying delays, what will her education be like? I think the sistermoms have even less ability to recognize the delays and ask for help. Back in the day, Michelle may have spent a little more time if a particular child was struggling with something, but with so many kids around the table and essentially a teenager teaching, who is going to recognize if any problems exist?

I believe Tabitha Paine is doing all the teaching now. Who knows what skills (if any) she has to recognize these things?

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52 minutes ago, sawasdee said:

My heart breaks for anyone who is not given the privilege of basic education. If you deny your child the help they may need to learn to read, then you also deny them all the other opportunities for learning - books, libraries, the internet. Books have been my education, my escape, my comfort, my freedom all my life - to deny that to ANYONE is criminal.

The Duggar kids also missed out on interacting with non-family members and kids their own age.  They never learned how to get along with other children or to work together on a group project with kids their own age.  They weren't allowed to play with other kids in the neighborhood or even to go to a normal church.  (They were homechurched as well as homeschooled!)  

They missed out on sports activities, student councils, fine arts, and so much more.  They were developmentally stunted during the years when the human brain matures.  

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3 hours ago, lascuba said:

Right, and I'm the last one to say one shouldn't criticize people's choices. But at the end of the day the choice has been made, and I don't really find it any worse than the choice Michelle made to keep getting pregnant against medical advice. Maybe it's because I'm of the mind that if they're insisting that they're doing good in "oh so dangerous" Central America, then it'd be incredibly hypocritical for them to leave because of Zika? I just really don't get a)the concern for Jill and Derrick over this, or b)outrage that they'd post something that appears to mock that concern when that concern is coming from freejinger. For all we know, they could have been taking precautions against Zika the whole time but never thought to mention it, and are highly amused at people freaking out about how irresponsible are, based on no evidence other than a lack of a mention on social media.

GAH! Stop making me empathize with those useless assholes!

I guess for me, I don't have the same empathy because the whole thing is completely under Derick and Jill's control. No one is forcing them to share their lives on social media for other people to comment on. They're D-list semi-celebrities who are shoving themselves into the public eye with TV specials and a hefty online presence where they willingly broadcast their lives to strangers. 

If they just kept their heads down, kept their social media to family and friends, and stopped courting television and magazines with their stories, no one would have a thing to say about them. The Dillards would just be three more people living their lives for better or worse.

They can't have it both ways. If they want the attention of trying to make themselves celebrities, they have to also deal with the judgment that comes with opening up their lives to strangers. They can't demand one and then get outraged that the other comes with it; the two things are part and parcel of their chosen lifestyle.

I'm sure it's not the most comfortable thing for them, but if they don't like it they're free to start making different choices.

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1 hour ago, Chickenbutt said:

This has me thinking of Josie. IF she has underlying delays, what will her education be like? I think the sistermoms have even less ability to recognize the delays and ask for help. Back in the day, Michelle may have spent a little more time if a particular child was struggling with something, but with so many kids around the table and essentially a teenager teaching, who is going to recognize if any problems exist?

Josie is in a lot of educational trouble. No matter her learning abilities- she'll be in trouble if she's a small genius prodigy. Michelle will have reached serious homeschool burnout by then. So will everyone helping her. by the time josie is in the heart of her education i bet the j-slaves will be out of the house, and how knows how long tabitha can and will stay? Michelle already appears to only be going through the motions- she has to be just exhausted from the years of childbearing and homeschooling and everything they've been through. In fact, I think she burned out years ago and that's why the j-slaves have been in charge of everything.  I doubt anyone will be taking josie's education seriously, if they even notice her anymore. She's the youngest of 19- michelle is going into grandma mode now. She may or may not remember to check to see if josie is doing school work at all, nevertheless check if she's doing it right and learning anything.

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11 minutes ago, quiverofdoubt said:

Josie is in a lot of educational trouble. No matter her learning abilities- she'll be in trouble if she's a small genius prodigy. Michelle will have reached serious homeschool burnout by then. So will everyone helping her. by the time josie is in the heart of her education i bet the j-slaves will be out of the house, and how knows how long tabitha can and will stay? Michelle already appears to only be going through the motions- she has to be just exhausted from the years of childbearing and homeschooling and everything they've been through. In fact, I think she burned out years ago and that's why the j-slaves have been in charge of everything.  I doubt anyone will be taking josie's education seriously, if they even notice her anymore. She's the youngest of 19- michelle is going into grandma mode now. She may or may not remember to check to see if josie is doing school work at all, nevertheless check if she's doing it right and learning anything.

According to the laws in Arkansas, Tabitha is not allowed to teach the Duggar kids as part of their homeschooling.  Only a parent can be the homeschool teacher.  That is why they call Tabitha a "tutor."  

I don't think Arkansas really cares about education.  There are no tests that homeschoolers are required to take, the parents are not required to have college degrees or any courses in education, and there are no in-home visits by the authorities.

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1 minute ago, DuggarWatch said:

According to the laws in Arkansas, Tabitha is not allowed to teach the Duggar kids as part of their homeschooling.  Only a parent can be the homeschool teacher.  That is why they call Tabitha a "tutor."  

I don't think Arkansas really cares about education.  There are no tests that homeschoolers are required to take, the parents are not required to have college degrees or any courses in education, and there are no in-home visits by the authorities.

sounds like the law in my state. Here we file for intent to homeschool every year, keep a record of 180 days of school on hand, the children's vaccine record on hand. We need a ged or equivalent, and need to the be the child's legal guardian.  I didn't think about the legal guardian part in terms of this tabitha person. My guess is michelle is only nominally in charge, and the older kids and tabitha do the schooling. assuming any real school gets done.  Parent's are often highly invested int heir children's education- older siblings and tutors? not so much.  (that's a generalization. Michelle doesn't appear to care at all....)

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Not just Josie,  I bet Jeni and Jordyn are not getting a lot of schooling either. I also worry about the howlers who don't seem to have any self discipline. I wonder if the M kids are being "tutored" by Tabitha. It's not that hard to teach the basic 3 Rs to little kids, but it takes dedication to keep them stimulated through high school. I wonder what their computer program is like. Do they still use wisdom booklets?

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I'm hoping that the younger girls will have so little attention on them that maybe they'll escape a lot of the brainwashing. And probably won't be pressed into the  same hard service their older sisters were. 

Their overall education standards are very very low.  Sad as it is, at least they have bible time so they hear at least some vocab words, stories and some kind of literature. It's something at least.  Other forms of literature don't seem to be of high priority, or even acceptable. Jb and m went to ps right? they have to know about some of the classics at least....

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JB went to a private Christian school. M went to ps and was a cheer leader.

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1 minute ago, Bad Wolf said:

JB went to a private Christian school. M went to ps and was a cheer leader.

So they probably have at least heard of catcher in the rye, 1984, shakespeare, the great gatsby, little women etc then. Even if they only skimmed them for the test in school. Oh, catch 22.  Clearly, jb read cheaper by the dozen at some point

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If a dozen is good, then 2 dozen would be better, and poor Boob didn't make it to 20.

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44 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Not just Josie,  I bet Jeni and Jordyn are not getting a lot of schooling either. I also worry about the howlers who don't seem to have any self discipline. I wonder if the M kids are being "tutored" by Tabitha. It's not that hard to teach the basic 3 Rs to little kids, but it takes dedication to keep them stimulated through high school. I wonder what their computer program is like. Do they still use wisdom booklets?

Do the Duggars even bother with homeschooling at the high school level? It just seems like around 14-16, education (or whatever passes for education at the TTH) stops altogether and the kids are pressed into gender-segregated indentured servitude. I really don't see JB or Michelle bothering with algebra or anything that requires higher order thought.

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What in the world would happen to all these kids if something happened to JB and Michelle at the same time? A car accident? A plane crash? Would the married girls do a schoolyard pick of the littles? Ummmmm, I'll take Jordyn. Ummmm okay, I'll take *fill in the blank*. While poor Josie stands there waiting to be picked.

These kids/kidults/adults are no way near able to care for themselves let alone their siblings on a regular, full time, life time basis.

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16 minutes ago, Chickenbutt said:

What in the world would happen to all these kids if something happened to JB and Michelle at the same time? A car accident? A plane crash? Would the married girls do a schoolyard pick of the littles? Ummmmm, I'll take Jordyn. Ummmm okay, I'll take *fill in the blank*. While poor Josie stands there waiting to be picked.

These kids/kidults/adults are no way near able to care for themselves let alone their siblings on a regular, full time, life time basis.

There is probably a plan in place. My parents always remind us when they are about to travel together where their will is and the plan they have in place just in case the plane goes down etc. My oldest two siblings are to take on the inheritance, finish putting my little sibling through college, and divide it up between the 5 of us. I always thought this was morbid but I guess it is useful. 

I am sure the plan at the TTH is for JD and Tabitha to get married and finish raising the littles :pb_lol:

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4 minutes ago, BunnyBee said:

There is probably a plan in place. My parents always remind us when they are about to travel together where their will is and the plan they have in place just in case the plane goes down etc. My oldest two siblings are to take on the inheritance, finish putting my little sibling through college, and divide it up between the 5 of us. I always thought this was morbid but I guess it is useful. 

I am sure the plan at the TTH is for JD and Tabitha to get married and finish raising the littles :pb_lol:

who wants to watch that wedding of JD and Tabitha :D

 

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6 minutes ago, BunnyBee said:

There is probably a plan in place. My parents always remind us when they are about to travel together where their will is and the plan they have in place just in case the plane goes down etc. My oldest two siblings are to take on the inheritance, finish putting my little sibling through college, and divide it up between the 5 of us. I always thought this was morbid but I guess it is useful. 

I am sure the plan at the TTH is for JD and Tabitha to get married and finish raising the littles :pb_lol:

This is assuming that JB doesn't think he is going to live forever. I would hope there is a plan in place, but I wouldn't bet on it. He is way too self absorbed to think of anyone other than himself.

We also had a plan in place when our children were underage. Now they just get to split everything between them.

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1 minute ago, Chickenbutt said:

This is assuming that JB doesn't think he is going to live forever. I would hope there is a plan in place, but I wouldn't bet on it. He is way too self absorbed to think of anyone other than himself.

We also had a plan in place when our children were underage. Now they just get to split everything between them.

Jim Boob the immortal god of morality and religious righteousness with perfectly coiffed hair

often depicted with a quiverful of arrows, a can of aquanet, or publicly humping something :output_eeMbjt:

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