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Candace Cameron Bure Explains the Problem with Feminism


roddma

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Candace Cameron Bure explains the problem with feminism. I have seen other pieces accusing women of only voting for Hillary on gender. If you vote for a man just to avoid being labeled feminist, isn't it the same as telling women to vote or a woman? Well, no one voted for Sarah Palin because of her gender. I agree women should help each other but it should be that way no matter what gender takes office..
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/02/10/actress-candace-cameron-bure-breaks-down-whats-wrong-with-feminism/

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Well, being prolife is not usually a militantly feminist position, and I read her comment on being not yet sure who she will support as rather ill informed - after all the debates, I would have thought she should have at least some opinion as to whose ideas march closest to her own. I am not in the US, so have not seen the talk show on which she appears, but if this article is an accurate reflection of her interview, I'm not impressed enough to give a damn what she thinks of feminism. (And sorry, Madeline Allbright, there are some women who should not be automatically supported!)

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Labeling all pro-life anti-feminist is about the same as labeling all pro-choice anti-Christian. Amy Grant is GOP/Christian and pro-choice.

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1 hour ago, roddma said:

Labeling all pro-life anti-feminist is about the same as labeling all pro-choice anti-Christian. Amy Grant is GOP/Christian and pro-choice.

That is not what I said. I said it is not usually a militantly feminist position, and I stand by that. Yes, there are some, but is not USUALLY so - that is why I used the modifier.

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Actually, I hope Madeleine Allbright WAS joking, as some press reported. Otherwise, she would seem to be saying that if Carly Fiorina had won the Republican ticket, and Bernie Sanders the Democrat, then women, in solidarity, should vote for Fiorina - Hell, NO! So I am fairly sure she was making an off the cuff joke.....:my_confused:

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Hillary lost a lot of support with Gloria Steinem and Madeleine Albright's comments. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (the head of the DNC) also made a comment recently about younger women being complacent about abortion rights. This is a problem with 2nd Wave Feminists. There is obviously a generation gap, and talking down to us isn't helping. We know abortion rights are being attacked, but we recognize it in terms of the wealth gap. Wealthier women have more access to birth control and abortions, and decent health care in general, than poor women.

Feminism today is about so much more than birth control. It's about equality in opportunity and acceptance of our similarities and differences. A woman can absolutely be conservative and a feminist. She can also be pro-life and be a feminist, as long so she's not just pro-birth. 

We're happy Hillary is running. We're happy a woman is a serious contender. What we won't do is vote for her because she's a woman. That's not equality; that's preferential treatment because she's female and that's not how we want to elect the first female President. We want her to win because she's the best candidate for the job, just like we want any other President. Bernie fans have mostly said they would vote for Hillary if she got the nomination. In that case, we would vote for her because we think she's the better candidate than the Republican nominee, not because she's a woman. 

A feminist doesn't even mean the person is necessarily a woman. There are many men out there who are feminists.

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I wouldn't vote for Sarah Palin or Candice if she ran because they don't represent my views. It has nil to do with gender for me.  I favor Hillary over Sanders because I feel she best represents my views. It was the same with McCain and Obama. Saying the issue with feminism is telling other women to vote for Hillary because she is a woman doesn't give women enough credit. If you vote for Benrie just to avoid being labeled feminist and slam women who support Hillary,you arent helping either. I almost find this piece insulting.

http://www.salon.com/2016/02/08/an_open_letter_to_older_woman_voting_for_hillary_from_a_younger_woman_voting_for_bernie/

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@roddma, I don't know of any women who are supporting Bernie just to avoid being labeled feminist.  My daughter is supporting Bernie because of his views.  

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To be honest, I don't know whether rot support Hillary or Bernie. I gather they have about the same views, but im just more familiar with the Clintons. No saying age is a factor or Hillary is a spring chicken, but Bernie would be pushing 80 toward the end of his first term.I guess Im thinking too much of ROnald Reagan . 

BTW didn't Candace suggest"Created to Be His Helpmeet" ?

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Bernie has called himself a feminist before. No vagina required to be a feminist! 

And no way would I vote for someone solely because they have a vagina. Nope. I prefer to vote for whatever candidate most closely represents my views. 

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Young female chiming in.

I'm not voting for Clinton in the primary - I'll be voting for Bernie. I fully understand he has lofty ideas and it's unlikely all of them will happen because reality... But he strikes me as being far more genuine than Hillary is. He strikes me as being a person who genuinely cares about others and he seems to be a person who stands firmly by his ideals - with Hillary, I always feel like she's simply trying to figure out how she can use a situation to her advantage.

Should Hillary win the nomination, I'll likely vote for her. None of the Republicans come anywhere close to my views on social issues and I refuse to vote for anyone who will try to legislate what I can do with my reproductive rights or whether marriage equality is legal.

On February 14, 2016 at 7:27 PM, roddma said:

I wouldn't vote for Sarah Palin or Candice if she ran because they don't represent my views. It has nil to do with gender for me.  I favor Hillary over Sanders because I feel she best represents my views. It was the same with McCain and Obama. Saying the issue with feminism is telling other women to vote for Hillary because she is a woman doesn't give women enough credit. If you vote for Benrie just to avoid being labeled feminist and slam women who support Hillary,you arent helping either. I almost find this piece insulting.

http://www.salon.com/2016/02/08/an_open_letter_to_older_woman_voting_for_hillary_from_a_younger_woman_voting_for_bernie/

I actually agree with this article. I can never state enough how grateful I am for previous generations of feminists (men and women) who worked so hard to earn and protect rights I enjoy today. But when you have supporters like Albright or Steinam claiming you're only looking for a boyfriend or insinuate there's a special place in hell for you for not voting for Hillary... Well, that really does go against everything those previous generations worked for and it completely contradicts the message these women have worked so hard to spread over the years. If someone believes Hillary is the best choice and wants to vote for her, I say go for it and make your voice heard. I just ask that I be shown the same respect in return.

Having a vagina does not make someone a feminist and it does not mean they are the right option for all feminists. Sarah Palin is not a good candidate to me. Neither is Michele Bachman. Or Carly Fiorina. All of whom have vaginas. If any of them won a nomination, would I be required to vote for them to prove I'm a feminist? Or is it fine that I don't because they're not part of the Democratic Party? 

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The entire concept of women telling other women who they should vote for based on genitalia just leaves me perplexed and mildly angry.  Did they not *get* what is wrong with the patriarchy?

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I am appalled anyone would say you're going to burn by not voting for Hillary, and she did apologize for it. I have never supported anyone based on gender, and as I said it underestimates women. ANd I sure as heck dont tell anyone who to vote for so I dont need these millennials telling me Being woman didn't help Hillary or Palin in 2008 Maybe only men should run of President so you won't get accused of being a feminist, anti-feminist based on who you don't vote for Ghees.

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9 hours ago, roddma said:

I am appalled anyone would say you're going to burn by not voting for Hillary, and she did apologize for it. I have never supported anyone based on gender, and as I said it underestimates women. ANd I sure as heck dont tell anyone who to vote for so I dont need these millennials telling me Being woman didn't help Hillary or Palin in 2008 Maybe only men should run of President so you won't get accused of being a feminist, anti-feminist based on who you don't vote for Ghees.

I'm really not sure what you're getting defensive over. I'm sure there have been Bernie supporters who have stated Hillary supporters are wrong for supporting her. There are assholes in every political camp and I think those people are wrong.

I saw nothing of the sort in the article you offered though. The author was respectful, made sure to show her gratitude to prior generations for their tireless efforts, and also made it clear she won't be talked down to by anyone (including other feminists) for supporting Sanders over Clinton.

There is a big problem with people not understanding what feminism actually is, especially younger people. A lot of people seem to think its about putting women above men, but it's not (which you seem to understand as well.) It's about equality for all regardless of sex or gender or race or orientation or anything else. We do need to address that and I think it's wonderful that so many public figures are starting to - but I honestly don't see anything like that in the article you offered. The author seems well aware what feminism means and is simply asking to be treated as an equal in the overall conversation.

(And just an aside: I'm sure there are other millennials reading this right now or commenting here who haven't told you who to vote for. Some millennials will - those people are assholes and aren't representative of the entire group, just as Albright and Steinam aren't representative of all Hillary supporters. Vote for whoever you think is the best option and let others do the same.)

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I'm a Clinton supporter for a lot of reasons, but none of them are because she has a vagina.  I think Bernie has great ideas,  though I don't think he would make a good or successful president, but it isn't because he has a penis.  I, like 99.999999999% people, make my election decisions based on the issues, my own interests and what I believe will be best for me and the country.  

This whole divide between Democrats really needs to stop.  You're not anti-feminist if you vote for Bernie.  You're not pro-corruption if you vote for Clinton.  I've heard both of these arguments/slurs made recently and it just pisses me off.   At the end of the day, we're all on the same side here, and all this bullshit is just making us turn on ourselves, forget the big picture and risks costing the Democrats the election.  Let's not eat our own, people.  Bernie or Hilary, we can all agree that no one wants President Trump or President Cruz.  Right?

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And i won't be talked down to by the author of that article. Just because a popular feminist makes a comment doesn't mean Hillary supporters agree with her comment. Even a few Bernie supporters called her out over her target audience' older women' IMO it's like a 6th grader trying to grade a college paper.
If you want to vote for Hillary because she's a woman, it's shallow but we have that right .If you want to vote for Bernie for no other reason than you don't feel obligated to support a woman go ahead This is a free country.
Feminism gives Candace the right to speak her mind.It gives Albright the right to make such comments. Heck, being American gives anyone a right to speak their mind.
I agree@Hera Keep it up and the GOP wins

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On 2/18/2016 at 10:26 AM, Hera said:

I'm a Clinton supporter for a lot of reasons, but none of them are because she has a vagina.  I think Bernie has great ideas,  though I don't think he would make a good or successful president, but it isn't because he has a penis.  I, like 99.999999999% people, make my election decisions based on the issues, my own interests and what I believe will be best for me and the country.  

This whole divide between Democrats really needs to stop.  You're not anti-feminist if you vote for Bernie.  You're not pro-corruption if you vote for Clinton.  I've heard both of these arguments/slurs made recently and it just pisses me off.   At the end of the day, we're all on the same side here, and all this bullshit is just making us turn on ourselves, forget the big picture and risks costing the Democrats the election.  Let's not eat our own, people.  Bernie or Hilary, we can all agree that no one wants President Trump or President Cruz.  Right?

Just voted for Clinton over Bernie, and would have done so if she were a man. Likewise, I wouldn't be tempted to vote for Bernie if he was Bernadette Sanders.

Mainly because I think Bernie's lofty ideas would make him an easy target for the Republicans to totally eviscerate him and make him look bad to your average voter in Ohio, should he get the primary. Because, unfortunately there isn't actually a way to implement a lot of his plans without increasing taxes on the middle class...and do you think average Joe Schmo undecided voter who doesn't know anything would want that?

Also, I don't get the dramatic hate for Clinton. Many of the things people have against her are things done by her husband, or that were also voted for by Bernie (their senate voting records are actually quite similar.) And I'd rather not vote for someone just because they give me a warmer fuzzy feeling (because from what I understand Dubya got elected over Gore because he was warm and fuzzy) and I don't think it's a good idea to vote for symbols.

Also, Clinton has a record of being successful in the Senate, Secretary of State and people are questioning her abilities to get shit done? I don't like playing the sexism card, but if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck it sure as hell ain't a chicken...

Honestly, I feel like it's been Bernie supporters dragging sexism. Now I can't win. I OBVIOUSLY voted for Hillary because she's a lady. Beyond what Madeleine Albright/Gloria Steinem have been saying (it actually irritates me women are like 'not supporting my every move is antifeminist') I've actually seen (white,male) Berniebros trying to "educate" women, POC, etc who support Hillary.

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@ShepherdontheRock,  it's funny because I've not seen any of that "BernieBros" shit and Senator Sanders has called people out about it.  As for the increase in taxes, I don't think so.  The wealthy need to fucking pay their fair share.  That's what Bernie is talking about.  Many of the Bernie supporters  on Daily Kos are in fact older women.  Tough Old Broads for Bernie or Little Old Ladies for Bernie, if you will.

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Just now, PennySycamore said:

@ShepherdontheRock,  it's funny because I've not seen any of that "BernieBros" shit and Senator Sanders has called people out about it.  As for the increase in taxes, I don't think so.  The wealthy need to fucking pay their fair share.  That's what Bernie is talking about.  Many of the Bernie supporters  on Daily Kos are in fact older women.  Tough Old Broads for Bernie or Little Old Ladies for Bernie, if you will.

Haha, well you're older than me. I'm seeing a lot of the Berniebro shit in the 18-24 demographic. I'm glad Sanders is calling people out about it, though.

And I'm not opposed to wealthy people paying more in taxes/corporations paying more etc. My problem is, as many (often liberal) economists have found out, many of Bernie's more radical plans would be impossible to implement with only increasing taxes on the wealthiest, and would often result in middle class families paying more in taxes. Which I don't think is either fair or going to win him swing voter support...

To be perfectly honest, I'd rather either democrat candidate in the white house than the possibility of us having President Cruz or President Trump. There's too much at stake.

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32 minutes ago, ShepherdontheRock said:

Haha, well you're older than me. I'm seeing a lot of the Berniebro shit in the 18-24 demographic. I'm glad Sanders is calling people out about it, though.

And I'm not opposed to wealthy people paying more in taxes/corporations paying more etc. My problem is, as many (often liberal) economists have found out, many of Bernie's more radical plans would be impossible to implement with only increasing taxes on the wealthiest, and would often result in middle class families paying more in taxes. Which I don't think is either fair or going to win him swing voter support...

To be perfectly honest, I'd rather either democrat candidate in the white house than the possibility of us having President Cruz or President Trump. There's too much at stake.

My 21 year old nephew is a "Bernie Bro" complete with condescending "what Hillary supporters don't understand is..." crap and subtly sexist memes all over his social media. He told his dad that he keeps having to "explain how politics works" to his girlfriend and her sister because they were leaning toward other candidates since they "don't understand how things work". He has attempted to explain the Democratic party to a cousin of ours who served a term as a district chair for the Democratic party in our state because "she just doesn't get how it works". 

This from a kid who when asked if he voted in the midterms last time answered "I don't have a job so I didn't think I could". 

 

 

 

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I think what Gloria Steinham said really hit a sore spot with young women. I have daughters age 16-23 (4 of them). Young teen girls and young women are hit over and over with tropes about "fan girls" and being ditsy and boy crazy. They really just get sick of it. One of my girls works for a popular gaming store and she gets this crap ALL THE TIME. "Did they hire you because you're cute and you'll bring in the guys? Do you actually know anything or should I talk to someone else?" over and over. They are tired of it. What Gloria Steinham said wasn't just some flip comment. It was another reassertion of a major trope that girls feel are being foisted on them all the time-that everything they do somehow, someone, somewhere is going to put them into that boy crazy, selfie obsessed, fan girl box. And for it to come from someone that is supposed to be on their side, someone who says she cares about these issues they face is akin to betrayal. And for her to just flippantly toss it out there like that shows that on some, unconscious level, she actually does have some agreement with the people who are the ones who continually reinforce that box. It's more than just a Hillary question. Do the feminists of the past really care about what young women are going through? Or is it their careers, their speaking engagements, their campaign, their book. Because what most young women are facing has nothing to do with whether they will get into the White House. 

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2 hours ago, louisa05 said:

My 21 year old nephew is a "Bernie Bro" complete with condescending "what Hillary supporters don't understand is..." crap and subtly sexist memes all over his social media. He told his dad that he keeps having to "explain how politics works" to his girlfriend and her sister because they were leaning toward other candidates since they "don't understand how things work". He has attempted to explain the Democratic party to a cousin of ours who served a term as a district chair for the Democratic party in our state because "she just doesn't get how it works". 

This from a kid who when asked if he voted in the midterms last time answered "I don't have a job so I didn't think I could". 

Haha, I think I might know your nephew! We're about the same age lol.

 

1 hour ago, onlyme said:

I think what Gloria Steinham said really hit a sore spot with young women. I have daughters age 16-23 (4 of them). Young teen girls and young women are hit over and over with tropes about "fan girls" and being ditsy and boy crazy. They really just get sick of it. One of my girls works for a popular gaming store and she gets this crap ALL THE TIME. "Did they hire you because you're cute and you'll bring in the guys? Do you actually know anything or should I talk to someone else?" over and over. They are tired of it. What Gloria Steinham said wasn't just some flip comment. It was another reassertion of a major trope that girls feel are being foisted on them all the time-that everything they do somehow, someone, somewhere is going to put them into that boy crazy, selfie obsessed, fan girl box. And for it to come from someone that is supposed to be on their side, someone who says she cares about these issues they face is akin to betrayal. And for her to just flippantly toss it out there like that shows that on some, unconscious level, she actually does have some agreement with the people who are the ones who continually reinforce that box. It's more than just a Hillary question. Do the feminists of the past really care about what young women are going through? Or is it their careers, their speaking engagements, their campaign, their book. Because what most young women are facing has nothing to do with whether they will get into the White House. 

Yo that's what I'm saying. And, tbh it's not like she didn't necessarily have a point but I'm so done with this. And I think it's ironic that they're talking about "special place in hell for women that don't support other women" when that's exactly what they're doing.

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I don't like when either the Bernie supporters or the Hillary supporters all but paint devil's horns on the other candidate.  I'd hope we were better than that.  Yes, I like Bernie because he speaks to this old hippie's progressive heart, but so frankly does Hillary.  I honestly don't know who I'll vote for in the primary until next Saturday.  Hell, I may even pull the lever for Martin O' Malley!  I liked him a lot and was sad to see him drop out of the race.

At one meeting of Bernie supporters last summer, the host was rabidly anti-Hillary.  I hated that and I should have walked out when I heard that bullshit.  Too much is at stake to be so blinded by economics (this guy was an economist) to see that other things matter too.  The GOTP wants to drag the country back to the 19th Century if not earlier.

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