What if a fundie couple is infertile?

[Jingercat]

We read and hear about all of these fundie parents birthing far too many children. What if a fundie couple has fertility issues? Would they be shamed and told that God is punishing them for a past sin? Would it just be chalked up to God's will and they go about their lives? Is the woman punished somehow (because we all know it could never possibly be an issue with her husband's sperm! No way are those fundie men shooting blanks!)? Does the husband get to divorce her and remarry someone who can gestate his spawn? How do they view non-fundie couples who can't get pregnant? I know Michelle Duggar sought fertility treatment (ugh), so apparently evil science is okay in this case? So many questions!

I'm not trying to speculate about any couple in particular. I think my own fertility issues and way too much lurking have put weird thoughts into my head  

[QuiverDance]

I'm willing to bet they don't run into this issue as often as "normal people" do because they start having kids early before fertility starts to decline. 

[Melissa1977]

Sure they suffer a lot, but they can say it's God's will and adopt 20 children to train up.

[salex]

Per Lori, they are probably be being punished for watching soap operas and being disobedient to their husbands, and not making a good deal with God to get a baby.

[GenerationCedarchip]

Can't speak for all, but in the reformed circles I've run in, they're generally on the receiving end of a lot of pity. They're generally accepted in the church, but it's a very lonely road for the women because  if you don't have children, you tend to be left out of a lot of things.  I've seen some circles where women make an extra effort to include the women without kids, but you definitely don't see that  everywhere.

When I was growing up, the men functioned in the church pretty much the same whether they had kids or not. I noticed that the women who couldn't have children often took on responsibility that wouldn't be offered to the other wives, such as organizing events, serving as accountant or bookkeeper, or mentoring teens/young adults. There was one lady who worked from home as a freelance writer for Christian publications, too. 

Nowadays, though, as adoption has become more prevalent, I've been hearing more stories of infertile couples being pressured to adopt.  I feel very conflicted about that. I think it's wonderful if more children can find homes and gain loving families. However, adoption is hard and many of the children have been through some terrible things. Not every person is capable of taking on that dynamic, and infertility doesn't magically bestow couples with adoptive parent superpowers.

[usedbicycle]

Shannon from 5 Kids 6 Months blog talks about this, they see infertility as a calling from God to serve in a different way. They're a fundie/quiverfull family (have gone to Big Sandy with the Duggars and talked about joining ILBP) with 7 adopted kids and treat adoption the same way as quiverfull family planning - they just keep their homestudy up-to-date and don't pursue nor prevent adoption. If they get a call about a specific kid, they say yes. One time their home study ran out and she felt as if they were using contraception. 

My experience growing up in fundie catholic circles was a lot of hush-hush gossip around infertile couples. Many believed women who took the pill then became infertile (this was a strictly NFP group). A cousin of mine had a promiscuous reputation (ie had a few boyfriends before getting married). When she struggled to conceive there was definitely a kind of silent judgement as if she deserved it. I even remember my grandma mentioning STDs as a cause. 

 

 

[polecat]

In my corner of the fundy universe, this is how things went down:

1. Infertile people could adopt (from family members with illegitimate pregnancies -- hate that term -- or through the foster system or through foreign agencies. All seemed equally acceptable.)

2. One infertile couple blamed their sinful pre-Christ lifestyle that may (or may not) have caused (her) infertility. 

Infertile people could also try SOME types of assisted reproduction but not anything that involved destroying/losing embryos. Being child-free/less wasn't actually frowned upon too much, but those people tended not to fit into the social fabric of the church nearly as much as those who had kids. 

[Toothfairy]

2 hours ago, usedbicycle said:

Shannon from 5 Kids 6 Months blog talks about this, they see infertility as a calling from God to serve in a different way. They're a fundie/quiverfull family (have gone to Big Sandy with the Duggars and talked about joining ILBP) with 7 adopted kids and treat adoption the same way as quiverfull family planning - they just keep their homestudy up-to-date and don't pursue nor prevent adoption. If they get a call about a specific kid, they say yes. One time their home study ran out and she felt as if they were using contraception. 

My experience growing up in fundie catholic circles was a lot of hush-hush gossip around infertile couples. Many believed women who took the pill then became infertile (this was a strictly NFP group). A cousin of mine had a promiscuous reputation (ie had a few boyfriends before getting married). When she struggled to conceive there was definitely a kind of silent judgement as if she deserved it. I even remember my grandma mentioning STDs as a cause. 

 

 

But gothard hates adoption.so that doesn't count.

They would probably  pray for forgiveness  of their sins

[usedbicycle]

43 minutes ago, Toothfairy said:

But gothard hates adoption.so that doesn't count.

They would probably  pray for forgiveness  of their sins

It's a little more complicated than that... Gothard believes in intergenerational sin - adopted kids are tainted by the sins of their parents so have high chances of leading sinful lives themselves. That's why it's dangerous to mix them with "untainted" biological children of good Christians. But if you can't have kids at all, then adoption is great christian sacrifice in Gothard's world. *BARF* 

[Jana814]

I always wondered that too.  I wonder what was said to Melanie & Nathan Maxwell when they had such a hard time having kids. 

[Toothfairy]

39 minutes ago, usedbicycle said:

It's a little more complicated than that... Gothard believes in intergenerational sin - adopted kids are tainted by the sins of their parents so have high chances of leading sinful lives themselves. That's why it's dangerous to mix them with "untainted" biological children of good Christians. But if you can't have kids at all, then adoption is great christian sacrifice in Gothard's world. *BARF* 

Gross. No kid should be with Gothard. But adopted kids definitely  shouldn't be with Gothard.

[Evangeline]

I've known several couples like this. Of course I don't know everything about their experience, but I've never heard of them being blamed or shamed because of it. People felt sorry for them, which has its good and bad sides. They generally would either accept being childless or adopt one or two kids. I agree that it's got to be very lonely in the church with no kids. 

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

Didn't our friends Zsu and PP say in their blog that infertility is just not possible in a Truly GodlyTM home, i.e. if you pray enough. god will give you a child? [BARF]

[QuiverDance]

6 hours ago, usedbicycle said:

Shannon from 5 Kids 6 Months blog talks about this, they see infertility as a calling from God to serve in a different way. They're a fundie/quiverfull family (have gone to Big Sandy with the Duggars and talked about joining ILBP) with 7 adopted kids and treat adoption the same way as quiverfull family planning - they just keep their homestudy up-to-date and don't pursue nor prevent adoption. If they get a call about a specific kid, they say yes. One time their home study ran out and she felt as if they were using contraception. 

My experience growing up in fundie catholic circles was a lot of hush-hush gossip around infertile couples. Many believed women who took the pill then became infertile (this was a strictly NFP group). A cousin of mine had a promiscuous reputation (ie had a few boyfriends before getting married). When she struggled to conceive there was definitely a kind of silent judgement as if she deserved it. I even remember my grandma mentioning STDs as a cause. 

 

 

I think the implied infertility/promiscuity connection is TOTALLY a Catholic subtext.  

[violynn]

24 minutes ago, QuiverDance said:

I think the implied infertility/promiscuity connection is TOTALLY a Catholic subtext.  

Nahhhhhhhhh.  I've heard the same thing from plenty of Baptists, and Methodists.  Interfering in God's plan, by having pre-marital sex, contraception, heaven forfend an abortion (!),  will bring wrath down upon you when you finally want to conceive in many circles.

[QuiverDance]

Should have said I have experienced it as a Catholic subtext.  Didn't mean to imply we've cornered the market.

[usedbicycle]

14 hours ago, Shouldabeenacowboy said:

Didn't our friends Zsu and PP say in their blog that infertility is just not possible in a Truly GodlyTM home, i.e. if you pray enough. god will give you a child? [BARF]

Yes, good call!

I also remember a post where she said that in most cases, infertility (of Christian ladies) is due to being too fat or too skinny. You had to either cut out sugar or eat an avocado a day, and tada, pregnant! Although I can't find it anywhere on her blog now. She got a lot of flack in the comments so maybe she deleted it. Anyone else remember that post?

[DaisyD]

I know from personal experience that it is possible to be too skinny to get pregnant, but it had nothing to do with being Christian or not. I just needed to put on a few pounds. There were no deals made with God, just a few cheeseburgers...

[princessmahina]

Isn't their "Navajo Nanny" suffering from infertility? Is it her weight or her lack of godliness? I would think Zsu wouldn't want someone like that taking care of her children...

[Jingercat]

Thanks for the great, enlightening responses. It's nice to know that infertile couples in the fundie world are generally still treated well by their peers. 

[BlessingsVonFundiePants]

On 9 February 2016 at 5:28 AM, usedbicycle said:

Shannon from 5 Kids 6 Months blog talks about this, they see infertility as a calling from God to serve in a different way. They're a fundie/quiverfull family (have gone to Big Sandy with the Duggars and talked about joining ILBP) with 7 adopted kids and treat adoption the same way as quiverfull family planning - they just keep their homestudy up-to-date and don't pursue nor prevent adoption. If they get a call about a specific kid, they say yes. One time their home study ran out and she felt as if they were using contraception. 

My experience growing up in fundie catholic circles was a lot of hush-hush gossip around infertile couples. Many believed women who took the pill then became infertile (this was a strictly NFP group). A cousin of mine had a promiscuous reputation (ie had a few boyfriends before getting married). When she struggled to conceive there was definitely a kind of silent judgement as if she deserved it. I even remember my grandma mentioning STDs as a cause. 

 

 

oh no @usedbicycle your post led me down this previously unexplored rabbit hole. I can't wrap my brain around the idea that they change the names of kids older than 18 months. What must that do to the child's sense of self and identity? I also can't comprehend that they share all those personal details about the kids pasts. Surely this should be the kept private until the kid is old enough to tell their own story as an adult if they choose. I am thrilled that these children are safe and loved but I personally believe the pain of their childhood neglect and abuse is the child's story to tell when they grow up, not the adoptive parents. She seems to be exploiting their suffering to glorify herself (how very fundie of her). 

[Rebelwife]

5 hours ago, BlessingsVonFundiePants said:

oh no @usedbicycle your post led me down this previously unexplored rabbit hole. I can't wrap my brain around the idea that they change the names of kids older than 18 months. What must that do to the child's sense of self and identity? I also can't comprehend that they share all those personal details about the kids pasts. Surely this should be the kept private until the kid is old enough to tell their own story as an adult if they choose. I am thrilled that these children are safe and loved but I personally believe the pain of their childhood neglect and abuse is the child's story to tell when they grow up, not the adoptive parents. She seems to be exploiting their suffering to glorify herself (how very fundie of her). 

Changing names is a really big deal with older kids and most (responsible) adoptive parents I know only do it at the child's request.  I have both a niece and nephew who were born in China.  My sister changed my niece's name, but she was only 9 months old when she came here and her Chinese name (literally "duh") was one that would have ensured years of teasing from her English speaking peers.  My nephew, on the other hand, was 7 years old when he came (special needs adoption because of a heart condition) and they said from the beginning that they would only change his name if he wanted.  He didn't ever want to, so they didn't.  To be fair, though, his name is one that "aglicized" well - it's not a common English name but it is a common English word that doesn't sound completely bizarre as a name.

[FundiesInParis]

One of my roommates from college, had a younger brother that they had adopted from Ethiopia when he was around four or five, and naturally he had an Ethiopian name. My roommate then gleefully went on to tell me how their family changed is name to Samuel, so that "he could have an S name like the rest of them".

Needless to say, I didn't room with her the next year.  

[DaisyD]

@FundiesInParis I imagine it was difficult to study that year with your eyes stuck in the back of your head.

[samira_catlover]

On 2/9/2016 at 5:30 PM, usedbicycle said:

It's a little more complicated than that... Gothard believes in intergenerational sin - adopted kids are tainted by the sins of their parents so have high chances of leading sinful lives themselves. That's why it's dangerous to mix them with "untainted" biological children of good Christians. But if you can't have kids at all, then adoption is great christian sacrifice in Gothard's world. *BARF* 

Intergenerational sin?  Excuse me (my Lutheran/Missouri Synod upbringing didn't cover all the details), but if we are ALL the products of a sinful and rebellious Adam and Eve---shouldn't we ALL be majorly tainted from the get-go, no matter who our bio parents were?

*curls up in corner and hisses very mightily* FWIW, I give serious credits to honorable, loving folk who are willing to adopt "challenged" children, any background, for the sheer love of children and for Holy Compassion and for wanting to make a difference. **tosses child collectors and fameseekers out the back door, with a BIG bootprint on the rumps**